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What's the Zig Forums take on this? Do we support this or are we against it? It feels like neoliberal posturing, but the left's reversal on mass immigration as somehow being a good thing for the working class has me confused about what we support and don't support.
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Immigrants are comrades. Only brainlets would fall for porkies' attempt to pit us against each other
And also the proper leftist response to this is solidarity, helping them organize / unionize so they arent exploited by neoliberalism. Strength in numbers.
If you misread it as "midget caravan" then everything's peachy.
Lol are they really?
Not surprising I guess.
Yeah, Honduras declares war on the USA.
Holy shit.
Uh these migrants are going to take whatever wages and working conditions US porky gives them severely undermining the recent labor power the low unemployment rate has given porkies. These migrants give zero fucks about worker solidarity.
agreed, the ones who are already here are definitely /ourguys/ in the fight against capitalism. But who wins by bringing more of them over here? Who are the people who want more migrants? I really don't want to be against people looking for opportunities to better their material conditions, but it still bothers me that the left is supporting this.
Migration is just a symptom of capitalism. I’m not going to fault them for that, just like I’m not going to fault people for trying to keep their jobs. The ruling class pits us against eachother by making us forcibly compete in this rat race. I’m going to do what I must while realizing who the true enemy is.
lol
I always found it funny of Central Americans posture, and grandstand in regards to having pride for their homeland (real spooked nationalist cuck shit), but simultaneously will leave their slum shithole to work under capitalists in the US in a heart beat. Something tells me these aren’t “comrades”.
More future Democrat voters for the south west? Godspeed ;^)
I find this funny as well. idpolers will write it off as "anti imperialist nationalism".
I think we should have been prepared to deal with the consequences of our shitty foreign policy, especially within Central America.
It's actually very effective. "Inhumane", "monstrous", "sociopathic" are much better descriptors.
Theres no denying that desperate low skilled workers bring down wages. The question to ask is whether we should fight with them over the breadcrumbs porky throws at us, or build solidarity with them in our struggle to overthrow porky.
The former approach is actually just liberal / socdem reformism. Much how liberals & socdems believe that if they ask nicely enough, the benevolent government will reform the contradictions of capitalism. The leftist anti immigrant stance is basically begging porky to please dont let low skilled workers in because muh wages. Capitalists are going to exploit whoever works for lowest wages, and even if you succeed in preventing these asylum seekers from entering the country, porky will just build sweatshops in Honduras.
The latter is accepting that porky is going to find any way to lower wages, and realizing the only way to make lemonade out of lemons in this situation is to unite with immigrants. I don't understand the claims that they're not able to build class consciousness. From my experience, immigrants & children of immigrants play a big role in labor organizing as they've experienced exploitation first hand. Unless you guys are essentially saying they can't develop class consciousness because they're not white. In which case I'd have to kindly ask you to go back to Zig Forums
I actually respect Zig Forums's anti immigration stance more than a leftist's anti immigration stance. Cause at least with Zig Forums, being anti immigrant aligns with their white nationalist values, whereas the leftist's anti immigrant stance is simply misguided.
I mean, some of them probably are, but I’m not big fans of the cucked nationalist at home either. I would say there’s a higher chance of them being swayed to our position then Cubans that came over.
Also, this probably a good talking point
google.com
Ya know, its very odd that most hard leftists describe these type of migrations as "blowback" resulting from imperialist policy rather then being an intended consequence of that policy.
Do you really think European and American leaders didn't understand that destroying Libya would unleash a wave of mass immigration from the African continent? The European leaders understood that for a fact, they had a deal with Gaddafi to help enforce border security for the EU.
There's a good book called "Weapons of Mass Migration" that describes how these migrations can be a tool of authoritarian states and imperialist policy. Many Third World nationalists understand that it actually can be a weapon of war, whereas most Western hard-leftists lack such understanding.
Beyond the cheap labor aspect, there is the fact that migration helps prolong the life of dying imperialist powers and it serves as a vessel whereby the ideas and practices of the metropolis can be transmitted back home. It helps facilitate the exist of comprador Neo-colonial states with a far greater-mass base; you have to understand that one of the reasons that 50s-70s style anti-imperialist struggles do not occur is that the imperialist metropolises busily absorb the type of people who might lead such struggles.
The Left needs a more nuanced and sophisticated understanding of these issues, not just muh open borders vs. muh soc dem trade unionism.
What do you call leftists collaborating with neoliberals to move labor around?
they can't develop class conciousness because they're scabs.
please go back to reddit. Leftists never supported mass immigration, that is until workers actually started to get pissed off about it, and supporting international capitalism became a tenet of the left.
Gonna need some evidence tha migrants are scabs there bud
Those who come illegally are definitely scabs. They undermine the few labor laws we have to make a quick buck, instead of agitating in their home countries for change.
Again, why must the left support mass immigration? Other than porky who wins?
I should add that Central American/Mexican mass migrations should be looked at in the same way. Douglas Valentine points out that part of the reason the CIA is so deeply in-bed with foreign mafias and organized crime is because they want loyal agents and compradors who can be used to destabilize their home countries when they won't follow American wishes. So, you wake up in the morning and there's some story in the legacy media about how the drug wars in Mexico and the rest of Latin America are creating scores of migrants and refugees looking for asylum in the US.
A normal person might read like that and assume that these countries need to get their house in order. A trendy liberal might tweet something about saving poor refuge children; a semi-woke leftist might fire off a mostly-on-the-mark analysis about this being blowback caused by a disastrous war on drugs and atrocious imperialist policy.
A more accurate analyisis this situation will show that this is actually the intended consequences of the drug war. Illegal drugs fund dirty wars and unpopular regimes; to build on something I pointed out before many countries, such as Mexico has 10% of its population living in the US. Although it is an extreme example, Guyana has more than 30% of its population living in diaspora in the US.
With remittances and migration to the global north acting as a pressure-valve it is easy to see how immigration can prolong the lifespan of unpopular neo-colonial regimes but less obvious is how it can act to retard change in the imperialist metropolis.
Certain aspects like importing Third World petit-bourgeois, skilled workers, and extreme reactionaries (e.g. such as Cuban exiles) are obvious examples of how it can prolong an unpopular political regime in the global north. Maximillian Forte in an excellent article on the subject points out that immigrants tend to vote democrat but the effect of "importing voters" is to maintain the two party system which is reaching extraordinary levels of unpopularity among the native born public.
zeroanthropology.net
Do you really expect them to though? Honduras is essentially a capitalist hellhole that violently squashes opposition. Some of these people might have sympathies towards opposition, but familial bonds keep them from seeking them out, as other members may be reliant upon them. I don’t think you definitively say they have no class consciousness.
Meant for
*has given proles
I meant to say the low unemployment has given leverage to US proles.
Fukken this
For those concerned about the poor brown foreigners.
why do capitalists pretend like like they don't want mass immigration?
Hahahaha this might as well be a Zig Forums infograph. ICE is litterally snatching people up in vans.
nolo.com
If that first one doesn't work, look up Stewart Detention Center. There are reviews.
Welcome!
Make yourself comfy, our whole society will pay your stay.
American "society" is a sin and deserves to be wiped out. Even if the whole "violent, disease ridden immigrant" meme were true I would support allowing them to enter this god forsaken country.
Well, better if put your wallet where your mouth is.
What about if you let them inside your home, and you move inside their ghettos?
So, you can be totally "enriched" with your own formula.
America was a mistake
If mass migration is working as intended than it should be opposed fiercely.
If you think being a treasonous inhabitant makes you virtuous, then you are a negative element to be cut out for the greater good of the collective.
You actions are about chaos, mischief and destruction; not about virtue or wellbeing.
I understand you feel pleasure about causing mischief.
You are a psychopath.
user pls understand that nationalists of all kinds love what their nation /could/ be, not what it is. Zig Forumstards always complain about decadence and muh slutty women racemixing with foreigners and how everyone but them is a stupid sheep.
It was the same for Hitler, he hated everything Weimar Germany was and wanted to squash it to create his ideal version of Germany.
Literally the beginning of the plot of The Camp of the Saints. When will /leftycuck/ wake up?
Never.
They are a death cult.
Totally not the same poster
hey, a reasonable, clever stance spawns from the sea of da internet!
>boards.4chan.org
It's funny how millions of purest white aryans scared shitless over little more than thousand brownies.
what the fuck this ☭TANKIE☭ is saying shit that actually makes sense
Dude, you're such a victim! Nobody has it as bad as you. Poor you, having to deal with things that ultimately have little to no consequences in your life. Truly the worst thing that could ever happen to anyone. You have my sympathies.
Dead minors are not related to the economic immigrant at all.
Your point?
Read some history. The first exoduses from Mexico happened in the 1850s as Mexico was being tossed around by European powers, leading to the Mexican Empire. When the Mexican Empire ended, their massive civil war in the 1920s created another exodus just in time for the Dust Bowl, which caused a lot of impoverished white economic migration through the same region (the US Southwest) leading to all sorts of reactionary activity. It only stopped from 1924-64 due to the quota system coupled with direct American support for a fascist "republican" Mexican government. And from 1964-1992 there was all sorts of imperialist fuckery destabilizing most of latin America, causing even more waves of migrants. And then from 1992-present both the US and Mexican businesses profit from the illegal immigrants who serve as wage slaves.
Put bluntly, this is not a "new" problem. By the way in America they all get free shelter and food from the catholic church, I know because my catholic school required all of us to serve them soup and do their laundry on weekends if we didn't do a sport.
Do not forget when President Dwight Eisenhower deported around of 3 millions.
Good post.
Nations aren't real. I support anyone moving anywhere they please personally fuck these archaic spooks put in place to keep people in poverty and seperated.
Catholic church are illegalist gang
On the two party system: the children & grandchildren of illegal immigrants (which are ofc citizens under the 14th amendment) tend to lean GOP because they are actually reactionary.
Hispanics become more Americanized with each generation. This is where the “Make America Mexico Again” and the Aztlan nationalism ideologies comes from; it’s a pure reaction to the Americanization of Hispanic youth.
The only reason why Hispanics vote anywhere near "left" (see Democrat) in the States is because Republicans ramp up the anti-immigrant rhetoric hard and even then a lot of Hispanics supported Trump because they felt that other Hispanic immigrants would create more competition for them.
It wasn't a racial thing for them, it was a matter of having more access to resources for production. A wall won't stop people from escaping destitution, especially as war and climate change causes migration from the global South, America will be forced to reckon with more migration crises which is necessary to perpetuate capital.
Much like how the Roman Empire integrated various conquered peoples through indoctrination with an idealist, values-based Roman identity, American empire — which rules most of the world beyond its borders via soft power projection — uses the ideology of the melting pot to recruit and assimilate world labor. Rather than assist international labor movements, the imperial ideology of ‘opportunity’ and ‘freedom’ suppresses labor consciousness both abroad and at home.
Bosses play ‘you and him fight’, praising the ‘hard work’ of immigrant slave labor while shaming the displaced native working class for not working enough. Meanwhile, brain drain from the third world to the Greatest Country On Earth continues apace, ensuring that as long as the capitalist carrot is within reach, flight will remain a greater temptation than fight.
Borders will be done away with eventually, but remember that we do not seek to backslide into feudalism, and tribal feudalism preceded the era of nation-States with defined borders.
An end to borders now would usher in feudalism and give the owner class what they want, which is frictionless flow of labor. Read Michel Clouscard on why the nation-state, with its defensible and fixed borders, is for the present historical moment a bulwark against the forces of what he calls the capitalism of seduction. In regards to Europe, the migratory crises caused by capital take a very distinct and ethnic form of conflict.
My parents paid $20,000/yr for me to do that, then when they died they gave the vast majority of their estate to the church.
it really redbulled me on spooks
It's worth noting that the children of second and third generation hispanics do not do any better in the labor market than native born Americans. 1st generation immigrants prefer the Democratic Party because they need to use more welfare benefits than native born citizens because of their low wages and lack of wealth and as this guy noted, they are the party that postures as being more friendly to immigrants:
It's worth noting that while immigrants need to use more benefits because of the explosion of McJobs nearly 1 in 2 newly created jobs in the US actually goes to an immigrant. When their "Americanized" children come of age in the labor market Porky is perfectly happy to let them load themselves up with student debt or sit in an unemployment line.
Why is this? These children have higher expectations and a level of cultural and linguistic proficiency that makes the expression of worker solidarity more likely.
Can’t confirm, t. 3rd gen beaner. My extended family might as well all be Zig Forumsyps, my uncles literally have memories of my grandfather working 12 hr days in the fields.
Pretty sure I'm the only Guyanese person here. Anyways I've never heard anything about the American govt being involved in Guyana in any significant way. Most Guyanese living in diaspora were fleeing ethnic violence, or seeking better jobs. Once the Brits pulled out, Afro Guyanese basically controlled the government, that along with the shitty ethnic relations is a recipe for disaster.