Yesterday China's defence minister took a message directly from Xi Jinping to Moscow. The message had two points.
1) China is no longer interested in cooperation with the USA, it is now the time for confrontation.
2) Russia can expect full support from China in future clashes with the west, extending as far as financial and military support. Including the deployment of Chinese forces to support the Russian Army.
So this is how the next great war between the Imperial forces will begin. It is like the run up to WW1 all over again.
China isn't that friendly with the EU, especially when the EU enacted solar tariffs like America did. Europe is once again going to be stuck being squeezed between two much more aggressive blocs (NAFTA in the west, RU/CN in the east) whose fundamental incompatibilities will probably rip the EU apart. Greeks and Spaniards are tired of seeing everything in their countries being sold to China and Poles want to become a US airbase while Germany and England want cheap Russian oil and cheap Chinese electronics.
The Greek [debt] question is probably where all these interests are going to collide, and in the end the US will probably win control over Greece through a new Junta. Same for Spain who could easily have another civil war, that itself could be a prelude to another European conflict.
Putin is more of a modern-day Bismarck, than a clueless twit like Nicky.
Camden Watson
The EU is only an economic "threat" to Russia. France, Netherlands, Germany and Finland need Russian money/consumerism. Russia doesn't need them. If the sanctions worked Russia would have collapsed back in 2016. Now the Russian economy is improving. America and the EU keep shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to Russia, it's pretty funny tbqh.
Fuck user I hadn't clocked that, lots of conflicting interests there. Nah we are at our most Russo-phobic since the 1800s, May is determined to be on a collision course with Putin.
Actually it isn't, the only part of it that isn't shit is the NATIONAL debt is v low, however regional debt is v high, personal debt is high and wages have been stagnant since 2008. It is much like America, with a bloated MIC and falling economic conditions for individuals. Putin's regime is not in a good place economically.
Noah Davis
mite b cool
Matthew Parker
Also don't agree with the take America will win in Greece, both Russia, China and the EU have too much skin in the game. Russia because of historical ties and it is v close to the bosphorus, China because they actually own most of the debt, and the EU for obvious reasons. Also another Junta could never rise: the army is too weak and the Anarchists, Marxist-Leninist and Fascists would provide too much resistance. Greece is basically set for a civil war unless by some act of god the DiEM25 get enough power to get Varufakis into a major EU role.
Eli Nguyen
There is no pro-communist Vth column in the Putin regime I am sorry. However a fourth revolution is possible, the Russian people are as strenched as the westerners but they have it even more shit, this along with the shit conditions soldiers face could mean a scenario much like 1917, especially after a defeat in a conflict.
It's a situation similar to how the US ran Cuba, the population is starving while porkies lorde over their cheaply acquired possessions. It'll naturally end in a revolution funded by the other side. Which brings up North Korea's future too, China could always step in and administer that region directly (it'd solve an immediate threat to their own security while giving them airbases much closer to Japan and Alaska).
It only takes one pay furlough for the Army to stop defending the state. At that point America airdrops guns, ammo and food to them which will cause them to fall into their camp. Everyone else gets shot and the Junta arises anew, using brand new American weaponry. Same shit happened in North Korea seventy years ago and Vietnam sixty years ago. This is how countries operate when diplomacy and consensus go out the door.
Luis Wilson
The thing is the Greek army is structured that it has both professionals and conscripts: it couldn't take power because they would fight eachother (professionals being NATO loyalists, conscripts time and time again turn to be populists). Also the Greek army has shit gear, and has to face armed political militias from the anarchists, XA and KKE. Areas of Athens are literally no-go zones for the police atm. Which brings up another point, the police are pretty militarised too, and the police tend to get fucked in Juntas so would fight it also: probs on behest of the EU. Man Greece is fucked.
Robert King
Predict ww2 after this ww tbh. Will America just become Germany and have Nazism unironically come back. Where will the new USSR be made?
Benjamin Garcia
None of that is a problem for the US government, just as it wasn't a problem for Russia's government in Cuba. All it takes is enough arms, enough pay, and maybe some airstrikes/special forces to clean up any stragglers. Greece is fucked enough where most people will settle for China being kicked out, the real question for me is Spain. That's a country that will more quickly split into extremely mercenary factions, each backed by a different bloc as it was last time. Greece is sort of the opening shot to the formal prologue that is Spain, which is what would escalate tensions between great powers directly.
Which is another concept here: escalation. If Turkey becomes a friend of Russia (say because US/Israeli funded Kurds try taking the eastern half of their country) America needs a new place to park nukes, Greece is that place. Meanwhile it'd give Russia and China bonafide reasons to start shit in Spain and potentially arm Cuba, the latter being a disaster scenario which could directly lead to WW3.
Jaxson Jackson
For real though, I've been telling my friends who are Trump supporters that Trump is going to ruin the US diplomatically for a year now. And the orange retard is succeeding beyond my wildest expectations. His bellicose and impulsive nature has managed to torpedoe Nixon's greatest achievement: establishing friendly relations with China and cementing the Sino-Soviey split. I never thought I see the US empire collapse in my lifetime, let alone see it unfold right in front of me. What a time to be alive.
Juan Stewart
That's a good thing, if America became fascist it would try to fight the entire world and lose eventually
Henry Reyes
The problem is that a Moscow-beijing axis is not much better; both would crush an Indian communist uprising for example.
Bentley Murphy
I get the impression that "Indian communist uprising" is a meme and unlikely to happen.
Cooper Johnson
That is, unfortunately a real possibility. I'm mostly just laughing my ads off about how Zig Forums's golden boy is fucking things up in every way possible.
aw, you're not excited for WW3: Capitalist Jubilee?
Robert Ortiz
Who's gonna be Nicky? Macron? Trump? Erdogan?
Nolan Bennett
We're not exited for the idea that one imperialist will win over another, we're hoping that this upcoming conflict is going to create the material conditions for another revolution. Like this coming war is a mimic of WW1, and a new Bolshevik revolution may be around the corner…
It isn't like Russia won't be better prepared to stop another revolution, and China is """already""" communist. I don't see why there'd be a Bolshivek revolution there.
I'd say to say it, but this next world war, if there will even be one, will honestly just be bunch of body bags and a whole lot of cash.
Adrian Gutierrez
But then again… Russia has regressed back to a "developing" country. Perhaps…
sure, why not? you act as if there aren't elderlies that were born just as the british empire crumbled maybe i'm just getting old myself but as stagnant as things appear at first, eventually you look back and think to yourself about how quickly things actually escalated
Zachary Garcia
I remember the collapse of the USSR. It seemed unthinkable before destruction of the Berlin wall. Then everything was dust and relics within a few months.
Adam Lopez
my older sibling was a young pioneer i wasn't old enough to know about them when growing up next year we have 18 year olds that were born after the beginning of the "war on terror", a generation that doesn't know a time before US occupation shit's changing all the time
Luke Watson
Russia was the least suspected to have a revolution.
Jason Cox
May or Macron might as well become the next Nicky. It's time to fucking make Kaiserreich a reality
Jaxon Reed
at this point, in my opinion, western europe is our best hope, if we ignore east asia. Portugal, France, Norway and the UK are becoming more and more radical, and an imperialist war of this scale might be the last string. Although "radical" could as well be fascist, so we might go full 1984. But then we just embrace Nick Land and accelerate like shit.
May is Nickey, Macron is DLG: a man who wanted better relations with Germany, went to war anyways and allied himself with the rest of capital, oh and later said the entire thing was a mistake.
Ian Reed
Eh in britain, the far right is dead organisationally: they had their chance in 2010 and blew it.
user, you don't know the difference. 3 years ago to use the word socialism would be dirty, now you could carry soviet shit and people would say "hey, nice".
Jace Green
Literally the only reason why Russia is a "threat" to anybody is because they have nukes and cyber warfare is cheap. They're entire economy is smaller than California's, most of the country is underdeveloped towns in the middle of frozen wastelands, and there is not a single thing they export that can't be gotten elsewhere.
Lincoln Price
This, the reason Europe is dependant on Russian natural gas is not because it is the best or only source; it is because the baltic infrastructure is geared that way. Since 2014 a pipeline linking WE to the baltics was started soon it shall be done.
Henry Martinez
Russia has a lot of untapped potential though. It has the space, natural resources and the nascent consumer market to invest, in this way the sanctions do hurt the Russian economy to have a potential economic miracle, and of course, hurt European companies which can't wait to invest there. The Russian government would rather get their investments from Europe instead of from China, but it looks like the reatrded hawkish policy from NATO and its vassals leaves them no choice.
Especially Germany and Russia are extremely compatible, to stop an alliance between these two has been the main goal of American foreign policy since 1900.
Grayson Rivera
The western people’s coalition: France Italy Spain Portugal Britain
Josiah Sullivan
This user is right from a basic level, the issue at the moment is the current politico-economic structure of the Putin regime (and yes, regime is the correct term from the pol/sci standpoint) does not allow for that. To make a complex issue simple, atm there are two main factions in the Putin regime economically: - The first are the oligarchs, who want state-capitalism, lower wages and full employment. They are also oligarchs so are fans of their big companies getting all the government contracts - The reformers, lead by boris Titov (who despite running against putin in the last two elections, is a part of his regime: he only does it to spread his ideals and say to Putin "see people vote for my plan"), they want a more western-style neoliberal market, higher wages with less employment and want open free market competition. Now from a dialectical standpoint, the latter is better however unemployment is something specifically the Putin regime avoids because they know the secret that high employment and low wages produces less dissent: however that fucks economic growth up with lower consumption and corruption. So either Russia fucks its macroeconomy or it fucks up a lot of microeconomics: both of which will cause dissent in the medium and even short term. To put it anotherway, we are bound for at-least another 1905.
Ian James
Translation for westerntards: Russia can expect to give even more concessions to China in future clashes with the west Picrelated is the absolute state of Siberian forests "leased" to China ATM.
Glad to see relevant comments and not just first grade level fan fiction.
Lincoln Gutierrez
It's a shame that trees never grow back.
Owen James
Trump is Nazbol. 4D chess.
Ryan Bell
...
Kayden Gutierrez
Rule 1 in the book of war, don't march on Moscow. Rule 2, don't start a land war in China.
Bentley Morgan
Learn Russian or Chinese?
Jonathan Nelson
Neither, learn Kazakh.
Christian Turner
China's social imperialism is going to destroy the world even quicker than America's. You're all fools.
Jason Garcia
can we call it Neo-Bolshevism
Nicholas Thompson
can confirm, i've waved my big red hammer+sickle banner around in london loads of times during protests (not specifically commie events, mostly normie libruls there) and had total strangers be like 'fuck yeah!'. I also got hugged by a Portuguese commie who was on holiday. It's not a dirty thing round these parts anymore, Jezza even spent Passover with a revolutionary socialist Jewish collective and they toasted with 'fuck capitalism'.
Juan Nguyen
at least i got to enjoy some zesty memes before my 3000 degree nuclear baptism
Without manual effort no forest will not regrow in same quantity in any lifetime. I can't find anyone in Russia being interested in reforesting Siberia, where the Chinese are operating.
Colton Richardson
*They toasted passover with a beetroot held high shouting "fuck capitalism". You heard it here first, beetroots are now officially dialectical vegetables.
Benjamin Torres
It seems like any future wars between major powers would primarily be economic and internet/information based, hot conflicts via proxies like Syria, for example. Or at least that's my hope, I would rather not die in nuclear Armageddon.
Levi Wright
I wonder how long this pact would reasonably last though, it seems like Russia and China's will inevitably clash, likely before any US confrontation would warrant any sort of cooperation.
Joshua Thomas
Which one is that?
Aiden Sanchez
Okay so it turns out they are applying to join the Jewish board of deputies now. If they get on my sides will go into fucking warp 9.95
Kayden Barnes
In all imperialist countries the proletariat must now desire the defeat of its own government. marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/jul/26.htm China and Russia are not imperialist, the USA, Britain, and Europe are. If you live in the USA, Britain, or Europe you must be rooting for the DEFEAT of your country and the VICTORY of Russia, China, Iran, Syria, etc.
Xavier Campbell
Fucking kek, someone crack out the tank map.
Brandon Cruz
Seriously, can someone explain how Russia and China aren't imperialist?
they're both capitalist, so doesn't that make them imperialist?
Brandon Jones
I should add that if war breaks out, as a Brit, i will undoubtedly embrace revolutionary defeatism. Regardless of this, still explain.
Aaron Rogers
They aren't parasitic.
Landon Hill
Then what's China doing in Africa?
Nicholas Scott
Development, not parasitism. Their deals have no political or economic strings attached, and are on favorable terms. Objectively it is not parasitic.
Jacob Flores
pic related
According to braindead ☭TANKIE☭s, the "underdog" is always the the force of progress and thus should be supported. If you apply this retarded line of thought on business you get: "SMALL BUSINESSES ARE NOT CAPITALIST. SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL GROCERY STORE IN ITS STRUGGLE AGAINST WALMART"
You literally don't understand the rational of anti-imperialism
Isaac Wilson
shut the fuck up kautsky
Nolan Wright
Then why does China actively loan out debt; in the same manner as western nations, to third world nations and MEDCs alike and then let the IMF, EU and others negotiate return rates for them? Heck some of Greece's debt that the EU and ECb fuck it over is Chinese. How is that not just plain economic imperialism?
Other user does have a point about the actual economic mechanisms behind Chinese intervention in Africa. They definitely are engaging in manipulating comparative trade terms on the global market, which is a one hundred percent capitalist (not imperialist) means of distending trade in their favor
Jayden Gutierrez
China is a capitalist hell hole and I hope it dies in the crossfire, tbh. Russia is bad, but they at least don’t have interest in creating a bizarre social credit system that could cost you your job if your autistic
Jaxon Cooper
Even by that measure, China lends debt to the US and thus finances US imperialism. :^)
anti-imperialism is completely pointless if all it results in is the replacement of one exploiter with another (as it is happening right now with the west and russia&china)
Nathaniel Baker
Imperialism isn't when the military does stuff, its a set of social and economic relations imposed by the bourgeoisie of one country onto another, prompted by a capitalist crisis of overaccumulation. It is characterized by the hegemony of the imperial country's financial sector and the extraction of resources from the dominated country, or some other kind of leech on the productive capacities of said country.
The Russian financial sector is quite meek and doesn't really have any presence abroad minus the post-soviet sphere, in which it still couldn't be described as hegemonic. Russia's economy is mostly based on oil, timber, and tech; not exactly the hallmarks of an imperialist economy like France, whose productive economy is almost entirely nonexistant, and has a vast majority of its workforce in the service sector.
I do think that China is imperialist though. It used to be purely a victim of imperialism back in the 80s and 90s, but now with its own productive forces and capitalist class almost fully emergent, it has been expanding overseas to new markets in Africa and southeast Asia. At the moment, it occupies somewhat of a mixed position, because although it is an export-oriented productive economy like most third-world countries, Chinese porkies are looking to expand to foreign markets and enact control over them.
