Communism members that were part of the bourgeoisie

Why were all the portuguese communist movements infested with privileged bourgeoisie members lots of them from rich families(tons didnt even give up their wealth either)?

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Eh in olden days the bourgeois were the ones that sent their kids to uni, they learnt marx and were like "holy shit" and then turned class traitor.
I mean this is acceptable, as Zhou Enlai once said, he was a class traitor to the mandarin elite. I mean Engels himself was literally a capitalist.

I don't know shit about Portugal but there are lots of famous communists from bourgeois or petite bourgeois backgrounds: Engels, Lenin, the Castros, Mao, etc. Obviously in terms of class consciousness growing up wealthy makes you much less likely to become a communist but once you make that jump having money has a lot of benefits, foremost among which being that you can afford to work full time propagandizing or organizing (hence why Marx depended on Engels' fortune for much of his life).

i dont even have a problem with communist leaders that were part of the bourgeoisie at some point if they chose to fight for the working class in the and,thing is tho lots of this people(communists in portugal) refused to give up their wealth and exploited portugal a lot even after their awakening to marxism

in the end#

I don't know much about Portuguese history with regards to Marxism, what period are we talking? Post-Carnation Revolution?

Oh, and one thing I didn't mention here , most pre-revolutionary societies were largely illiterate and becoming a socialist leader without being able to write is extremely difficult. This factor is probably less relevant today with increased literacy rates even among the lower classes in (most) underdeveloped countries.

yes post revolution,im asking this here because im getting upset how some people worship some of this leaders KNOWING that tons of them were literally thieves that just wanted to get power/money/influence and never actually gave a shit about the working class,and continued to be wealthy bourgeioisie

I get into tons of stalemates because people start talking about how salazar(our fascist dictator) didnt steal anything for himself and as much as i HATE this fucking piece of shit fascist(salazar) i know they are true that he didnt steal personally anything,so then when i start talking about how that regime was basically a totalitarian far right state(fascism and state capitalism) they always mention our former pcp leaders being corrupt e.t.c

i legit think that communism in portugal will have a future,but we have to pick our potentional future leaders well(like fidel which is a personal idol of mine) that actually care about the people

I don’t mean to be mean but what is it with Iberians and Iberian-Americans being obsessed with corruption and always bringing it into politics? Is it the Catholic Church’s doing? Or some kind of Third World disease?

Im not sure if i understand you,but basically corruption amongst politicians/in the political system ends up ruining everything.

If this country wasnt so corrupt we could have created an amazing socialist/marxist country in europe.Now this country is becoming more racist and far right by the day,real shame(however dont be afraid to talk about racism with the portuguese they are usually open about it,mostly the way we treat gypsies is horrible like legit the way the nazis treated them)

greetings comrade

Reminder that engels was the single most influential person in communist theory because of the brotherly love he shared with marx and he was BOURGEOIS

i know about that comrade,i guess if you end up converting thats fine.But all the bourgeoisie and rich people need to get the firing squads when the revolution come

They don't deserve to die simply because they were born lucky and/or they took advantage of the capitalist system. The wall is reserved for anyone who actively attempts to undermine the revolution and anyone who post revolution attempts to revert back to a capitalist mode of production

manso do caralho

Class-traitors occur due to other factors like nationalism or idealism

Just because your rich doesn't mean you don't have a distaste for the suffering the people around you encounter

In pretty much every group you have outliers so statistically, it's not surprising that a part of the Bourgeoisie end up going against their interests.

Marx was the son of a well-of Prussian lawyer — a member of the petite-bourgeoisie. Engels was the son of a wealthy textile factory owner — a member of the haute-bourgeoisie. Kropotkin was the son of a serf-driving Rurik nobleman — a member of the high nobility. Stop with the proletarian idealism, just because you're a prole doesn't mean you're a good or sharp person, this is noble savage-tier levels of paternalistic delusion.

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I thought Moa was a peasant?

*Mao

Lawyers aren't petite bourgeoisie. "Bourgeoisie" doesn't just mean "rich guy" and "petite-bourgeoisie" doesn't just mean "sorta rich guy". The Bourgeoisie are those who control the means of production and the petite bourgeoisie are those who whilst in control and profiting from their workers still need to supplement their business with their own labour. Small business owners and independent farmers would be petite bourgeoisie. Lawyers are intelligentsia.

Regardless of minutia, a well-off independent lawyer certainly doesn't qualify as "proletarian" in the sense OP implies.

Mao's father was one of the wealthiest farmers in the Huan province.

True but OP is clearly a retard who doesn't know what "proletarian" or "bourgeois" means.

Mao's father was born poor but became fabulously wealthy. Interestingly, the same is true of Lenin's father (born to serfs and studied hard then married into wealth) and the Castros' (peasant in Spain who came to Cuba to make his fortune). One could probably argue that this pattern is significant in some way but I don't really know.

How though. Most have pretty low incomes, work very long hours and would probably benefit from socialist revolution?

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Bourgie class traitors are the best class traitors.

As is true for many small business owners. This is the thing about class, being in the more institutionally empowered class doesn't necessarily mean you're going to necessarily have a luxurious life. It just means you have access to a valuable resource that the proletariat do not, and in spite of that it's still entirely possible for a prole to have a bigger income than you do.

Class isn't decided by how thick your wallet is, it's decided by your relationship to the MoP and what the economy we live in means for you. And this is the thing about the petite-bourgeoisie, to them capitalism means empowerment. It is capitalism and the institution of private property that somewhat empowers them above normal urban proletariat and socialism takes that away and doesn't seem to immediately compensate them. This is why the middle-classes catch on to fascism like a magnet whenever capitalism is in trouble. Generally people more fiercely defend their status of being above someone than they are willing to resist being under someone else.

It's almost like Marxism isn't about the proletarian emanicipating itself and the theory is fundamentally flawed despite providing a sometimes useful tool for critique…

Working class that do nothing are more bourgeoisie thand bourgeoisie that do work for the working class.

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