LeftyBritPol - Goodbye BNP Edition

Honestly? High Toryism died out with Enoch Powell, you're not going to get that sort of anti-whiggish Conservatism anymore.

So then what do you propose? I don't want to completely dive into left-wing literature given I have exams soon but I don't want to just go through another "emotional" phase.

Which tbh is sorta sucky because theres no difference between the avg Tory and Blairites nowadays in all actuality, they're just two shades of liberal.

Why do you feel that you need to be aligned to a specific ideological current?

There's nothing pressing you to be involved in actual politics. You're a student so focus on that first, then when you have time and energy read the stuff and bother having political opinions. Till then just enjoy the spectacle like the rest of us.

Not exactly ideological current but I feel disenfranci-

You know as I was typing a response to the poster above the page updated and saw yours. I think that actually is the best course of action right now. Thank you.

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hhahahahahahahahjHAAHAHAHAHA
HAAHhahjHAHAHhahahHAHHA
FIRST AS TRAGEDY
THEN
AS
FARCE
(The SDP's foundation in 1981 came with a declaration that they wanted to "Break the mould of British Politics", sadly I can't find a poster - which I'm sure I've seen - that explicitly says "SDP - Social Democratic Party: BREAKING THE MOULD." or such. It comes up in snide headlines and neutral book titles, though.)

Though where the SDP at least had the advantage of some serious political figures with serious ideological differences leaving a real party to form it, this just looks like a rich bloke throwing away his cash. There's nobody in Labour now, certainly not on the right, with the national presence that even Bill Rogers (who?) had in 1981. Why would any Blairite jump into this electoral woodchipper?

Also, it's amusing that they presage failure in their own press, echoing the failed SDP ("break the mould") rather than the successful En Marche! (Though again, En Marche had a serious political figure leading it. What're they doing to do, get Tony Blair to take another punt? I'll admit, that would certainly break the mould…)

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Is vanity the ultimate enemy of the proletariat?

Anyone else going to the demo's in may at the Israeli embassy?

My money is that a few figures will get on-board: blair, Major, Osborne and perhaps John Woodcock. The last could be an interesting one, if he joins it, it would trigger a be-election in a v close tory-labour marginal. Literally any of the three could get it, would be fun to watch.

I think there has been loads of "new centrist" parties forming since the general election. There will be a big headline and then nothing for few months and then a new one will pop up. The thing is there actually isn't any desire in British politics for a new party outside the twitter liberals.

If your a student getting involved in any left wing groups might help you get a better understanding of the left without having to read lots.

The trouble with all these "new parties" they have no grassroots just lots of money. This not being the US you cant win elections on money alone. They will end up getting a disproportional amount of press coverage if they did ever become a thing though.

Well iirc, the SDP had few members. However, if they were to team-up with the lib dems, they would have capital and at-least some labourpower. Regardless, it will probs help Corbyn rather than stop his "ebul leftism".
On another note, new Scottish poll is b prosming, Labour up to 12 seats north of the border. Our boi Leonard is doing good work.

this guy looks so pathetic they might as well add "pretty please" on that sign

i-i-is he gunna do it lads?

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youtu.be/E4r4E68ykPA
NABZOL WILL WIN

Don't take demo-selfies, let yourself be photographed. Also tbh I would recommend to anons that you go to demos: if they are big enough they tend to be pretty fucking fun.

He's unstoppable as long as the tories don't implode and cause a GE before Brexit concludes and the coming crash happens because otherwise the fallout will be immediately blamed by the porky media as being loony leftie corby's fault. As long as the tory backbenches don't revolt and collapse the current government too soon the situation will be so awful with no one but the tories (and probably brexit) to blame allowing Labour to come in and pick up the pieces as the saviours of Britain in a time of crisis and hopefully nationalise everything in sight.

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Tories won't implode now, they will keep things going until brexit occurs: it is the kind of irony that the recent events has made them think they are more secure. The locals will be telling, but yeah they will stay until 2019 at the earliest.
Now what to do once brexit day comes? well IMO Labour should do two things based on conditions. If the tories are about to collapse for other reasons (maybe Mogg makes a powerplay, something else perhaps) then Labour should push for an election. If not then Corbyn should resign and call a leadership election, not because he has done anything wrong & needs to go, but because he has done everything right and that he has needed to. He is getting old, and his intention was never to be PM: but to reform the party into a mass movement. With the new party democracy rules coming into play and a rising ideological movement of the redleft is secure now. If he retires in grace, he will be the greatest opposition leader this country has ever had, and some sexy young'un can take power and win 400 seats. Either way, Corbyn, if the May elections go well, has basically completed his mission. And as long as McDonnell remains shadow chancellor, there will be no revisionism in Marxism-Bennism JCT.

NO

user, introduction in a basic form of socialism in these isles will take at-least 7-12 years, you expect Corbyn, a man who is 69, can last another decade in power? Ofc not. I love Corbyn, he is a lad, but he cannot be leader forever. If there is an election before 2020, he should lead the party into it. If not there should be a managed and secure transition so the movement remains strong, and he can get some rest.

He's not done until the Blairites are gone.

I think the best outcome would be Jezza having a single term before McDonnell does a Stalin.

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or he names Phil Greaves as his successor and that dude's gonna fucking nationalize oxygen. Just wait and see.

They will be gone soon and regardless, the membership has overruled them again and again. With the new democracy proposals they will be done for good.
Also if this ebic centrist movement takes off things could get pretty good for Labour.

Eh as I said, if the election is before 2020 Corbyn should fight it, do 3 years, have an election, run a diarchy for a year, have the new bloke/lass take over then have the next election. Would work-out quite well.

Quit being ageist, Fidel governed till his late 70's and McDonnell is only 2 years younger the Corbyn.

Which one of you lads has been putting these spookman quotes around Newcastle?

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user, even the most popular of kings who die without a steady succession planned for them can see their empires fall into ruin. Corbyn needs to retire in grace, before he is forced out due to ill health of scandal.

I'd probably be arrested if I did that. So good on you, Anglos.

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Become a cromwellist.

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Sorry disagree. Brexit will probably help the British economy and make the coming crash less harsh in Britain than in other countries. Also the Tories won’t do a general election anytime soon. Last time they did it Labor won.

Well considering you are a conservative that is opposed to liberals, it sounds basically like you are in the same position as Peter Hitchens: You recognise the issues of today but can't figure out how to fix them. What I would recommend is reading what Hitchens things about Corbyn, and then into another movement called "blue labour": this is a group of economically left-wing (not as leftwing as say McDonnell, but defo for nationalising shit) but actually reactionary people in Labour. They seem like they may be your cup of tea.
Also Christians on the left, considering getting involved with them myself.

I will put forth a third way (inb4 blairite): brexit will have no impact on the economic crash itself, but it will allow the UK to react in a way that means it won't hit as hard. This is why we must critically support brexit: so we can nationalise the toothbrushes.

Mind explaining how Brexit will be good for the economy. I voted leave but knowing that porky would punish us for it unless we became a tax haven.
I do agree with since leaving the EU is necessary for any decent program of nationalisation to be implemented by a labour government but my worry is that an economic crisis is blamed on Brexit by the remain camp as 2008 was blamed on Labour.

Well that's the thing user, at this rate the financial crash will come BEFORE brexit…

that'd be fucking hilarious, honestly

The EU is fully controlled by German and Belgian neoliberals. Who are using it to push forward privatization and austerity onto Europe. Britain did get some labor laws from the EU, however there being kept as Britain is integrating European law into British law. So if Britain was in the EU and there was an economic crisis, Britain couldn’t do much in terms of nationalization to solve it. However now it can. Also the EU tied Britain to Europe which as a market is failing. Now out of the EU Britain can instead tie it’s market to Commonwealth nations like India which right now are growing. In fact if May doesn’t tie Britain’s economy to India then she is a complete and utter idiot.

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For the most part I agree with the economic case against the EU, but what about freedom of movement and such? Also, economically speaking it's also a bit of a gamble because on the one side we won't have to fight the EU over nationalisation, on the other side if the tories stick to power for long enough they'll wind us up with a behind-closed-doors negotiated US-UK trade deal that will bring us back to step 1 in regards to nationalising anything, and let porky sue the government over economic issues and "not enough competition".

What's the argument to that? Accelerationism?

That's all well and good until you remember how much our current economy relies upon trade with the EU, and precisely what will happen once those protectionist barriers come down and native industries have to compete with the whole wide world.

How do you think the Tories will deal with this crisis? By gutting workers' rights legislation perhaps? Lowering of taxes on business? Imposition of yet more austerity? Considering that the Prime Minister is at the mercy of hard-right Tories and Spectator readers, this hardly seems outlandish.

An indispensable part of the neoliberal programme, especially the oversupply of skilled labour.

They could try, but you see the entire tory economic plan atm is to rely on Austrianism: high employment with low wages. If a load of people were to suddenly become unemployed, well the jobless marching corps would soon come for them…
youtu.be/6KFVVKFxr60

On the one hand yes, on the other hand fuck borders. Regulating freedom of movement also leads to even more fascist pish about how there are enemies standing at the gate. It's well proven by now how the biggest racists tend to appear in homogeneous communities due to the whole "different = threat" mentality. Despite the fact that freedom of movement is abused by porky to act against workers, there are also socially very relevant upsides to it.

You can only maintain high employment with competitive native goods and services, and if we pursue tariff abolition and market integration (Advocated by cretins like Minford) they will be utterly destroyed unless workers are given the proverbial shaft.

Further, there's a perverse rationale to the abolitionist position from both a practical and ideological perspective.

I do not oppose the abolition of borders per se, but if these measures are used to impoverish labour (generally through eliminating monopolisable skills) they ought to be opposed.

Doubly so if mass immigration is used as a tool to crush organised labour.

Assad won't make the decade.

However most upper-class brexiteers want to deregulate and bring us to the level of the US and sign trade deals with everyone. However they will never get their chance to do this: it won't come into being before the next election proper and then it will be destroyed.

How can centrism "Break the mold"?
Centrism literally just means keeping things as it is

I get the point about organised labour and I agree. The problem is that the answer to porky's abuse isn't "lets keep the borders locked down then" because that's just retarded. That's the kind of answer where we'd be told that two wrongs don't make a right, and I agree with that. The answer is not "degrees of immigration" either.

In fact, I'd say rather than try to lock down borders we should be looking at locking down porky and his ridiculous hiring practices instead. Why not enforce a quota hiring thing where each company needs to employ a specific percentage of citizens or something? That idea alone is better left wing analysis than "lets align our argument with the far right on this", and I just came up with this right now.

We should be looking to defend freedom of movement and ALSO attack neoliberal excesses that result from it is what I'm saying.

Maybe I'm pessimistic, but this might be wishful thinking. May isn't inviting Trump in just so he can get protested at, she's inviting him over to court him for the trade deal. If the tories want to fuck everything over (which they are capable of doing, proven already by them calling an EU referendum just to solve an internal party issue) they'll force through a shitty trade deal soon as brexit is in place and leave labour to deal with the fallout. All they need to do is hang on to power for another year or so and convince the blairites that this is the best way to kill Corbyn (something that they'll jump on, Blair himself included). This is something that I expect them to do, and I also doubt Corbyn has the balls to go full unilateral and cancel any such shit soon as he hits No. 10 like it should be done.

I WANT OFF THIS FUCKING RIDE

If we could secure closed-shop employment in certain key industries, mass immigration would cause me no concern beyond those which accompany any mass movement of people (ensuring jobs, quality accommodation, help with adapting if needed, etc.)

Except now they are doing this to the police; capital is destroying its own mechanism for maintaining control…

In other stuff, I have finally found it, IDPOL boiled down to its purest form.
twitter.com/lisamuggeridge3/status/971050131909955584

twitter.com/lisamuggeridge3/status/971052476664369159

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Like fucking pottery

The BNP arent part of westminster. They have no MPs. They were part of Brussels though.

Stormfront endorsed Corbyn on their website a few months back.

Wait I thought that was a joke, you're kidding right?
Also is this like reverse beefsteak nazis?

That was a joke but so is Zig Forums endorsing Corbyn.

To clarify, they did put an endorsement of Corbyn on the top of their website and published an article endorsing his nationai socialist policies but it was 75% sarcasm.

RIght, still, could kinda be funny. Just a bit, if mirror beefsteak nazis rebecame a thing,

While not as bad as the right makes it out to be. It generally is bad for British workers, it does drive up the GDP, but GDP is a meaningless factor. It lowers the real wages of British workers, which is probably the best way of seeing how good an economy is.

The Tories won’t win the next election. Unless labor does something really, really stupid.

Yeah but now Britain can rewrite it’s trade parters. Like the Commonwealth nations who’s economies are growing. While Europe is stagnating. The EU market was a sinking ship, that Britain was smart to jump out of.

All EU law will be integrated into British law. This was the one smart thin May did. Any EU tariff swill become tariffs implemented by the British government now.

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blair isn't

Good times. Didn't realise the day was yesterday. Should have celebrated.

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All the tories need to do is time the next election just right. It's not about them winning it, it's about labour losing it, and don't get me wrong labour can win the election and still lose. If they time the election well (and they are capable of getting the 2/3rds necessary if they have a plan, don't underestimate blairite treachery), they can effectively blame Corbyn for brexit with complete support from the mainstream media, and then he'll end up being the Michael Foot of our generation.

This shit is a lot more precarious than you think, especially if Corbyn can't do anything meaningful because he'll get elected before he can deselect all of the blairite cunts that will end up undermining him and voting against him all the time, meaning he won't be able to implement jack shit and will get blamed for everything, thus ending the labour left experiment and putting either the tories back into power, or some blair like figure that will be the same as tories anyway.

I remember being in George Square in Glasgow, where people literally had a public party the day she died. I also remember pumping the song "ding dong the witch is dead" to the top of the charts. I also remember smiling for the daily mail cameras, their hitpiece the next day was the only daily mail paper I ever bought and it was for the purpose of framing it on my wall.

Even though there hasn't been a massive push to deselect MPs most of the seats which Labour can win have selected pretty left win candiates. We just need to hope he gets a decent majority (probably needs 40+) and sottish MPs count as half because of how blairite they are.

I feel that guy will challenge Jeremy Corbin to a duel

WAIT I KNEW I RECOGNSED HIM:
youtu.be/Ebb0F6CEb4k
THE SECOND GUY.
Also man these guys were pol before pol was a thing

Fuck I remember sending that to scottishsocialist1 on youtube

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43697543
Nick Clegg: Breakaway party 'highly likely'
DO IT I AM READY.

Part of me really wants them to do it and fail within a year but at the same time it will be a bad image for labour if they lost MPs.

Not really actually, if they quit and forced by-elections that Labour won it would be a fucking godsend.
Also this is not the 1980s, the consensus isn't social democracy but neoliberalism: which favours the tories. A centrist party would bring over a lot of conservative voters too, not as many as people think but perhaps enough to make the Corbyn movement stronger.
Regardless, most political analysts are saying what the UK wants is not a centrist party, but an authoritarian leftist party: a "fund the NHS and hang the peados" party.

and I thought a new political party would be the silliest sounding thing I heard this week. (Oh wait, technically we're on the dividing line between last week and this week. Maybe they're different weeks. I may be overthinking this.)

Anyway, another problem for a new party: What the fuck do you call it?
Social Democrats was taken (and is still squatted by a rump SDP, now pro-Brexit.), iirc Progressive is also registered to some no-name organisation, Northern Ireland has already taken "Alliance", and names like "Moderate" or "Centre Party" only really work when you're a boring little country like Sweden dominated by the Social Democrats anyway. All the good names for a "moderate" party are taken, so you're left calling the damn thing Consignia.

I can find no trace of a "progressive party", you're right about the SDP, another one could be the "New Democrats". Also it doesn't have to be a "party",it could be the "Social Democratic Union", "Progressive Union": would be good optics for an adamant remainder party.
Regardless, I think it will be John Woodcock that gets final say on the name for the blairite splinter…
And there are also rumours of splinters from the tories: especially in London. I hope a broad-front centrist alliance becomes a thing, it helps our cause.

I hope it happens after the local elections that way it will have no impact on them. Do you think they would take any seats from Labour?

Eh it depends, most blairite MPs don't tend to be that popular of MPs, however blairites that are in marginals could swing to either the new party or the tories. John Woodcock's seat for example, is a majority of something like less than 1k. If he joined a third party, it could swing to him, to labour or to the tories: no way of telling. I think maybe one seat going to a very popular MP or a seat where perhaps the lib dems don't stand and they are a big third or even the tories refusing to stand for the sake of hitting labour could occur. Regardless, it would be bloody interesting.
Also nothing will happen before the locals, just because trying to launch a new party in ernest before local elections is a bad idea for attention. You need weeks for it in the build-up to the big by-election.

Its like 200 votes in it. The tories would still stand there considering how desperate they would be for the seat. Lib dems don't matter they got 1000 votes. Knowing how good the Labour party is at grass route organizing they would probably keep the seat just based on how many activist they could flood the area with. It would be big blow for moderate types in Labour if there was a bi-election and they lost

Exactly user, and considering how much of an insufferable knob woodcock is nothing of value would be lost.

I swear someone said on here he is hated locally. Considering that momentum is pretty good at promoting popular local candidates it should go our way.

We need extrajudicial assassination of Blairites. However Brexit is still good, because it gives Jermey the freedom to do whatever he wants once he gets elected. He will.

SNP will make a resurgence. Mark my words.

NAZBOL GANG ASSEMBLE

I really fucking hope they call it the Neoconservative Party.

Would’t it make more sense to just join the Lib-Dems.

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I love how blunt British politicians can be

they just slightly left lib-dems now. They will die out

hbomberguy?

The center have had their shit kicked in and the corb man has reclaimed labor for the far left.

The blairites forming a new party is a desperation move to prevent corbyn from winning/false hope somehow people will vote for the center again

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