Daily reminder that you should be writing down all the typical anti-communist arguments you find and gradually...

dialectical comrade

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I disagree, go to any socialist meeting or even mildly progressive demonstration and you'll see plenty of old fucks there. A lot of boomers and older people remember things like the Vietnam war, Korea, Gulf War I, invasion of Grenada etc.

tbh the silent generation=best old folks waifu, they were far more left-wing than most generations that came either before or after them

also greatest generation

Having screenshots and passages of Marx arguing against their notion of what Marxism is is always useful (and can lead to some pretty funny reactions)

You beat them not to win them over, but to win spectators.

So what?

I find it amazing that successful leftists of the past could win the people over with state repression, censorship, total ban on left-wing ideas, no academic freedom, no internet and at constant threat of arrest, but leftists of the 21st century are supposed to shrug and say we'll just never beat CNN and Fox News.

...

The real mvps:

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Here's a useful source:
reddit.com/r/communism/wiki/debunk

Also, is right, we need more based memes debunking.

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Everyone gives up halfway through when they realize that ideological anticommunists are schizos that believe in magic.

There you go, there's the right's arguments. Pretty easy to defeat if you've read the entry level stuff.

i've been trying to do this for a long time, i even made a thread about this weeks ago, nobody wants to, anyway here is my part

pastebin.com/Nt9Mqw3V
pastebin.com/y8BV4p2L

The problem is, we know it's bullshit, but the casual observer might not, and that's who we gotta convince.

OH NO NO NO NO NO

good shit user, keep it up

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Turning Point USSR was a great page for rebuttals against TPUSA shit but they got Zucc'd a couple weeks ago.

Stop doing this shit, you are basically acknowledging that a gorillion people died indeed. Only people who don't know how to research demographics and compare numbers believe that fascist propaganda.

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What do you mean by that?

Facebook page, got deleted

Got banned for some shit, I don't know what.

it's more emotionally efective to liberals,if you go all out saying it's nazi propaganda they will retract and get away thinking that you yourself are trying to feed them propaganda

Fair enough

Yeah but the consequence isnt that they change but that they start spouting ridiculous nonsensical slogans like: "neither capitalism, nor communism!"

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We need a centralized effort for that. A wiki or a blog.

dude that's like step one, you won't ever manage to convince all out "without inequality nobody will work" people to become a hardcore ☭TANKIE☭s, you have to get them through a process, first they abandon liberal ideas, then they take refuge in social democracy, and then they turn commie, your way of doing things is like trying to make friends with a street dog by forcing him to be pet, no he will bite you, you gotta get him to get close to you, then you gotta feed him, and then pet him a little to get him used to it, and then take him home

this

was meant for

The typical anti-communist arguments - at least the ones that float around here in Burgerland - are pure feels > reals stuff that you can't really argue against, once you get past the initial excuses. They don't care if they're right or wrong, they just want to say how they feel and intimidate anyone who doesn't placate their feefees. Cowards always stick together and feed off each other.

Now, there are legitimate arguments to make about communism, Marxism, or socialism, but they're far more likely to occur between socialists or lefties rather than with libs. (Conservatives don't make arguments at all, they just browbeat and thump their chests, so they aren't even worth considering.)

the fascist one is awful. those traits are universal to authoritarian government. some of those traits weren't even common to all fascist movements either

as others said though, its worth showing them for the fools they are and convincing spectators. these emotional reasons are very tied up in the frustrations of these people (muh niggers on welfare, muh white Autism Level) and they're making narratives that feed emotional needs not rational ones.

Stop looking for fucking excuses you bunch of lazy retards

I value my escapism more than arguing with retards. Not saying you shouldn't argue with retards though. Personally I'll only try when I find the opportunity and it's convenient for me. Not going to go out of my way to give myself cancer.

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There are no open minded spectators in the US. Negative stereotypes of anti-capitalist politics are deeply ingrained in our culture to the point where leftist ideology is literally a mythos that has nothing to do with politics.

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a trot posting a pro-stalin meme? friendship with sectarianism over - now comradery is my best friend

It’s actually a pretty good resource even though it was compiled by redditors

And no class analysis either.

It's a very liberal description of political regimes: just identify a few common traits removed from circumstances and historical development, the type of analysis that leads people to think "socialism" is "whatever the Soviet Union did"

Here's more.

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I've already turned 7 people to the side of Marx. All you need to do is bring up how their wages are but a sliver of what they deserve and how this system puts profit over everything, and they become far more sympathetic.

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This has been floating around for a while, Its a pretty solid masterpost, Fact scrounging from 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧Reputable sources🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 can be a problem, but your usual unnuanced garbage tier arguments will get shredded

docs.google.com/document/d/1Gxwhh-vdeB--47HM-20cEVRC9eAMhrapbNf0Sk8VSOs/mobilebasic

disproved
mostly disproved, 1968, 1956 and baltic annexation pending disproval
Disproval pending
mostly disproved
disproved
disproved
Disproved
Disproved
Disproved
Disproval pending
Disproved
Disproved
Disproval pending
Disproval pending
Disproved
Disproved
DISPROVED
Disproval pending
Disproval pending
Disproval pending
DISPROVED

Feel free to add more

Should we make a neatly organized pastebin/doc repository for these arguments? This is good praxis.

Yes

Expansionism isn't imperialism.

Source?

Grover furr reports that a polish-ukrainian archeological team discovered the remains of a "victim" of katyn in a site of a nazi massacre in ukraine in 1942. The bullets used were german. Soviet forensic analyst Eduard Molokov proved the stalin's katyn decree was falsified. Goebbels started the whole katyn myth.

Btw I forgot to put mao's sparrow killing under pending disproval

That's just confusing. Why would you start something like that as a rumour?

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Also, fuck the Spanish clergy. If those fascist collaborators and literal kidnappers didn't get btfo, I'll be upset.

Because the nazis needed to create antisoviet propaganda>>2486113

No, *you* should. Leftypol is not the right place for this. Find smart leftist irl or in a place that is easy to coodinate action with others, like a discord or whatever.

Can you actually prove this?

bbc.com/news/world-europe-11845315

I think you should double check those two in particular

This definitely happened. Research pic related. He was a brilliant botanist.

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By disproved I meant killing the priests was the morally correct option.

Also katyn, as I said earlier was commited by the germans who then blamed ot on the soviets.

doubt.png

Check out grover furr's research

I will check it out, but generally I am more interested in the scholarly consensus than any one individual.
People have a tendency to seize on authors who supports their pre-existing narrative (beria dindu, typhus, etc)

Given the entire western scholarly consensus is based on spreading antisoviet propaganda I dont believe in argumentum ad populum regarding anything the USSR did. Meawhile there isnt a consensus regarding katyn in Russia itself.

But…it did?

The problem with arguing in favor of communism is that it actively requires staring reality in the face, and denying it. It's one thing to argue the idea of communism on paper, but when you actually look at countries that devolved into communism… they're awful. Not even the people here would want to live in any given communist country.

That second link is stupid.
The "famines" are blamed on socialism because they always follow socialist takeovers. These would have been entirely prevtenable if they simply hadn't adopted socialism.
The problem with blaming every "prevetable death" today on capitalism is that nobody owes you shit. If you abolish capitalism, people aren't going to magically get fed or medical treatment.

Shut the fuck up…..

You need to go back, /polyp.

docs.google.com/document/d/1Gxwhh-vdeB--47HM-20cEVRC9eAMhrapbNf0Sk8VSOs/edit?usp=sharing

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