So how exactly do you plan on enslaving people and establishing a country where the state hoards all of the resources produced by said people and give them only a fraction of what they produced at the same time, claiming that it'll be paradise?
Also don't give me that "in socialism, the people own the means of production" bullshit.
What communists/socialists mean by the people's property, they mean public property and the public property is actually the state's property, so really it's the state that controls everything.
So your system is literally slavery. Prove me wrong.
And don't think that socialism actually consists of people who will voluntarily work with no incentive towards a common goal, because humans are naturally selfish and will want to be rewarded in exchange for their labor output. So in order for socialism to take place, there needs to be a central authority figure that will manage everything, that being (and you guessed it) The State.
How much of the value that you produce is returned to you in wages? And how much of that value is pocketed by the people who rule you, the capitalist class?
Assuming you aren't LARPing (which you are) your company is probably making 10x that on your labor alone every year.
Thomas Richardson
$97,000 is good enough for me. There's a lot of shit i can buy with that much money. In fact ,if i get a side hobby where i make even more money by providing a service to people who are willing to pay to use it, then i'll make even more money.
Zachary Wilson
Wage slavery aint for all m8. Have fun being exploited.
Cameron Russell
So you're OK with being ripped off and exploited, as long as you have enough to buy fleshlights and kratom? How does that make you different from slaves who were OK with slavery, as long as they got to have sex and eat cornbread?
Austin Clark
...
Ethan Bell
FPBP
RIGHTISTS BTFO
Lucas Brown
Cockshott's recent video where he answers questions from an american student has some good reasons for socialism in addition to the standard marxist arguments. As a petty bourgeois who's family is literally in the 1% (reeee daddy didn't give me a small loan of 1 million dollars) socialism offers freedom from the coercive laws of capital.
Exploitation is the act of being used to work with no benefit. How is voluntarily working for someone and receiving a reward not beneficial?
Lincoln Cox
Being this much of a brainlet.
Nicholas Collins
Aha but I did sage see
How is making less than the value you produce not exploitation? Are you 13? Fucking lurk or read. You seem to have no fucking understanding of leftist theory whatsoever.
Because your theory is based off of unrealistic expectations and ignorance. Your theory is shit. Go ahead and be a cuck for the state that kills you and everyone you love. I'll be making as much money as i want and growing from working my job, faggot.
t. never read socialist theory Nice arguments mate.
Really though comrade. You need to go learn a bit more.
Jordan Green
Quick question, what do you do for a living?
Bentley Johnson
Education why does this matter?
Elijah Nguyen
No one is forcing me to live a certain way except you, of course. How can there be coercion if i'm doing it V O L U N T A R I L Y?
And you're mad that you get paid less than me because?
Levi Anderson
Literally you don't, not unless you accumulate enough resources, which again, is bullshit given that people live in different contextual surroundings. Are you telling me a single mother will become a billionaire if she works multiple jobs to sustain herself? No, because again, she's a save to wages. She needs the money to survive. Your argument falls apart when you have to take taxation/rent into consideration. I need to have money to buy resources in order to survive or that I can keep a roof over my head.
Why does it matter?
Jackson Jackson
Well well well! Confirmation that MARXISTS run our universities! Sending this to Ben Shapiro now
Marxism is bad shit my dudes. It leads to weirdo stuff like sionistas, anifas, and even Zuckerburgs.
Cameron Morales
Why in the nigger fuck would you want to accumulate wealth when a society without need of wealth is possible?
Jayden Lee
Yeah, that's too bad but i don;t have to worry about them. Go ahead and start a charity. Help the poor. Anything that'll get you off your ass from shitposting lefty garbage all day.
Why should I bother? You haven't argued in good faith throughout the entirety of this thread. Besides I made a reply to here
Now start reading and stop bleating you fag.
Luke Jones
This is how exploitation works:
You go to a factory let’s say. Your employer owns the factory. They offer a job and you accept it. You work the factory and produce something of value. The factory owner takes this thing you produce and they sell it on the market. They then take a portion of what they made in profit and give it to you in exchange for working. So far this sounds fine. But what is happening here is that the employer is not paying you for what you produced. You complain that the government taxes you? Well before you can even get taxed on your income, you are getting fucked by your boss, because you are only being paid a fraction of the wealth you produced.
You’re the one who works your ass off. And you don’t even get to reap the benefits of your work because not only is the government taxing you but they do this after your boss fails to pay you your worth. And there’s nothing you can do about it because your boss owns the factory not you - sorry you have no say.
How is it fair for a person to produce 100$ of value in an hour and then get paid less than 100$? They are being denied access to the value that they themselves made. This is what exploitation is. And this is why socialists want to own the means of production. So that instead of choosing between exploitation or starving, we can work without having our value taken away and pocketed by the factory owner.
Sebastian Cook
Confirmed 0% mutual aid
Dominic Flores
If I don't accumulate wealth, I die. This is a threat, not a choice.
Charity is a bandage on a cancer patient.
Lincoln Long
Is this suppose to be impressive? First job?
Austin Moore
You just admitted that these people are poor and destitute and could need intervention, as well as admitting that they need help due to their predicaments. But let me guess, when the state intervenes to help the poor, that violates the NAP. Charity amounts to sweet fuck all. Capitalism created that poverty, and it continues wage slavery.
Jacob Williams
But aren't yea all splinter group-thinks formed off of a fucking Jew named Marx? All his shit works well enough if you're Jew like him, but if not you just end up being the dregs in a shitty dystopia Capitalist Machine with a Marxist parasite in it.
Ayden Davis
Look back to what i said in my first post. Humans are naturally self interested. Your system will never ever work because every human that has ever existed has done something in pursuit of their own self interests.
No one is killing you but yourself. Listen to your dead leader, Marx. "He who does not work does not eat".
Bentley Sanders
you are making fuckton more money for your boss than he pays you.
Noah Barnes
NAZBOL GANG IS JEWISH ANTI-ZIONIST m8 stop being spooked by jews
Yeah that’s the fucking point we’re making are you fucking retarded? The entire point is that if you don’t work you starve and that is not voluntary that is coercive. How much of a brain let do you have to be to quote someone supporting the other side of the argument good god
Christopher Nelson
Because he owns the business, retard. I'm using his labor and his resources to produce a product that i end up getting rewarded for.
Eli Brown
You didn't answer my question. Why is a rat race of accumulating money in your self interest? Why is a society where money isn't necessary not in your self interest? Nobody here denies self interest, just look at the egoists. In fact, I'd say YOU are the one denying self interest, the self interest of the lower class denied the lion's share of the wealth they create. Who are you to do so?
Leo Martin
Because he owns the business, retard. I'm using his labor and his resources to produce a product that i end up getting rewarded for.
No one is forcing you to starve. You chose to not work, faggot.
Adam Ward
no, you are using your own labor to produce fuckton of wealth and you get payed only portion of that like goog little cuckboii
Nathaniel King
You’re not being rewarded in full. Would you not rather be paid 100% of the value you produce? Don’t you believe people should be paid according to how hard they work?
Jose Hughes
OH NO HE'S TOO FAR GONE UP PORKY'S ASSHOLE COMRADES ABANDON THREAD
Then why should people get to eat without actually contributing to society in some way? We want to reform society so that the economy is controlled by employees. This would mean people get more from what they do, would make work more accessible to the disabled and would guarantee safe, fair working conditions. What is so bad about that?
Lucas Gutierrez
You sound pretty cucked bro would you let you boss fuck your woman too?
Henry King
Says who? God?
Matthew Morgan
it's nigh time we stopped responding to these, comrades
Andrew Hill
I accumulate money so i can make my life more comfortable.
Now if you all excuse me, i'm going to bed with egyptian cotton sheets that were hand made by african slaves on my plantation.
TALLY-HOE!
Jace Gomez
Communism is my self interest. Ever heard of the phase "a bucket full of crabs"?
Lemme fix that
Daniel Martin
Tbh I reply for the lurkers that aren't so blindfolded by such pure uncut ideology as OP.
Anthony Fisher
This is some pure retarded bullshit. If you don’t work, you die. That is not voluntary. No single individual is holding a gun up to your head demanding you work. But if you don’t work you are DEAD. There is nothing voluntary about this. Just because you choose to not be dead doesn’t mean it is voluntary - you have been pushed into making this decision or else you die.
Luke Sullivan
OP, you're a born slave. Until the day you die, your main function is to enrich people you don't know, and whose faces you've never seen. Nobody will remember you when you're gone. Is that really how you want to waste your one and only existence?
Ryan Edwards
But why not support a system that takes the abstraction of money out of the equation entirely? Would you lose anything in your life if you still had a comfortable life but didn't need to chase money like an addict looking for his next hit? Assuming this is the real OP.
I actually do make over $100k per second (year) but support communism anyways. It would be nice to not have to use my labor doing trivial shit for porky just because it pays well.
I agree, but thread is anchored, so it doesn't matter. Also, if he gets out of contaminant thread and get reported he's gonna get ban. This redditors doesn't seem to understand ancient rule lurk moar faggot
Gavin Powell
I’m not saying there is a problem with mandatory work I’m saying that capitalism is not voluntary and that OP is getting cucked
Juan Barnes
You giant fags couldn't even return a living dog from space.
Levi Harris
Life is bourgeois. Cyanide the greatest revolutionary tool of the proletariat.
what you mentioned is not flaw with capitalism. I can use simple arguments such as:
The main problem with capitalism is that there is no such thing as voluntary agreement between two unequal parties. If you are asking for a job of an employer, he's someone with lot's of property while you are hungry person trying to get better life. To explain, I say some nice anectode, like: >Imagine that we, me and (you), are walking somewhere. Suddenly, you fall into quicksand. I'm standing on solid ground, so you ask me for help. I can just pull you over, but as good capitalist, I ask you to sing documents in which you will give me your house if I help you. Since you are fucked, you voluntary sign that paper. Such is relationship between employer and employee under capitalist regime.
