I don't know shit about this war. Can someone give me a quick rundown and rec me some non biased book (or biased just not in favor of americans) on this war? Was Milosevic low key /ourguy/? Is true that the serbs slaughter everybody. Is true that Milosevic was behind it?
Books alá Bruce Cummings if it's possible
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Kosovar muslims started genociding local serbian population after 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧UN🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 gave them guns and approval.
Serbs responded in kind.
Mudslimes started whining they are being opressed so 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧NATO🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 had to step in.
Autopsy reports were falsified, the rest is history.
Milošević was a neochetnik that went around 1980s Serbia trying to turn it into his personal fiefdom once Tito died. His plan was to have a greater Serbian empire under his rule and to destory Yugoslavia to get that goal. He didn't order the rthnic cleansing, but he was aokay with it because he wanted a Serbian ethnostate. He is basically fash and anyone who supports him is also chetnik fash.
However NATO helped create him by destabilising Yugoslavia post Tito through economic warfare and supporting Croat and Serb nat groups. Yugoslavia could have survived without people like the west sponsoring people like Milšević to try and drive the country apart through religioius nationalism.
Brainlet Zig Forumsyp detected, the "Muh Kosovar serbs111" shit is nationalist Chetnik propaganda. Kosovo ASR was run by and Albanian since the mid 1970s and things were fine.
hey could you not
Ok, who was /ouguy/ then?
So Serbia got it coming to them with the depleted uranium bombs
There are no our guys
It's western puppets being propped and lowered by the west
nobody
I'm a Serb so here's my take:
Kosovo is Serbia's cultural province. A lot of Serbian tsars left their bones there, and it has lots of Serbian eastern Orthodox monasteries that are older than 1000 years, Kosovo is also one of the first regions we as a people settled here in Europe. Kosovo was Serbia before Serbia was ever even a thing. And Albanians over there were too noisy, too dirty, too smelly, too organ trading for our tastes. So we told them to fuck off.
We simply saw them as hostile Ottoman leftovers. Also I would like to point out that they fired the first shot of that war. Like, if you want to shout 'allahu akbar' 5 times a day from the speakerphone from a fucking tower and disrupt our daily peace, fuck off to the middle east or something, I dont know, I dont care, go away from our Serbian lands.
We simply never saw Croatia as anything more than a Serbian province. Croatia was never a thing. It was simply a Serb speaking region for Habsburgs to recruit their 'stable boys'. Hungarians too. Italians as well. Basically everyone was taking turns ruling that province that speaks Serbian. Then we gave them autonomy in the Serbian state after we liberated it in first world war. Then they stabbed us in the back by wanting independence, as if they ever were independent… we saw it as an uppity province that needed to be put in its place, slapped around a few times, remind them whose blood was spilled so they can be uppity in the first place (Serb blood against Austrians, first world war).
We Serbs are imperialists, and we wanted Serbian empire. But let me ask you one thing: who the fuck doesnt??? The truth is that EVERYONE wants to be 'the Empire'. The only reason they arent, is because they CANT! If you can pull it off, you do it. If you cant, you pretend you are anti-imperialists, but that is only because you are ruled by someone who can have an empire. Non-European savages enslaved each other and were creating their own tribal empires among each other before European empires enslaved them. Everyone is an imperialist. The only difference is how good are you at it.
Tito. [']
Also Djilas although he was inexile by this point. But yeah >>2480780 are right it was Utase western puppet militias vs Chetnik western funded militias.
Djilas today is notorious for corruption among the Serbian citizenry, and chetniks were primarily funded by Orthodox volunteers and weaponry, which are all on the east according to geography…
'Chetniks' basically means 'soldiers', and they wanted to restore monarchy. No one in the west cared about restoration of the Serbian monarchy in 21st century. It was a fringe weirdo fest with no serious backing. They were pro religion so they whatever funding they got from Orthodox religious communities from outside, primarily Russia.
Ah yes, the eternal westerners take on the yugoslav war.
t. albanian false-flagging as a serb
Wow. You guys are still hatinf each other hard
Civilians who got killed because of retarded nationalists
An ultranationalist capitalist war criminal who formed a coalition with far-right extremists was actually a good guy because American imperialism or something
Anyone who disagrees with me is a liberal or a Zionist shill
Even if he was an animal, it doesn't justify what NATO did to yugoland
Ratko Mladic
Low autism level turko-slavs with no education and no access to wealth, whos only pride is ideology and history exaggerations, were forced to exist in an internationalist federation as alleged equals. As soon as things went from mediocre to bad, all the "communists" were quickly reborn as passionate nationalists, and started killing each other over spooks.
A very low quality socialist experiment (you must remember it was the least socialist of all, yet very internationalist, and that these same people were in civil war a few generations earlier, some genociding the others) crashing slightly after the bigger socialist experiments crashed, and were unable to adequately help. The government in Serbia playing thought instead of folding, thinking the USSR is there to back them, not realizing that Russia is at its weakest it has ever been since Genghis Khan days.
You shouldn't feel bad about it, it was putting down a sick dog.
Serbian here.
Sloba was a banker that came from the USA some 2-3 years before he got into his position. Almost as soon as he came into power he started removing the organs of powers the workers had, and workers self-management disappeared within a quick few years. Soon after he started the first privatization reforms in SFRY history, he also abused the Serbian majority presence in Yugoslavia, both in the bureaucracy and in the civilian population. Most likely he was a foreign agent sent by NATO to divide Yugoslavia up along with Tudjman and Izetbegovic, there have been confessions from ex-CIA officers and multiple other things that prove this, like the fact that when the privatizations kicked in (which were followed by corruption, and party officials planting themselves as the new capitalists) Franjo, Sloba and Alija all shared the same bank account, they all participated in the stealing and partitioning of Yugoslavia. The government also started to turn a blind eye to the nationalist escalations that the individual sovereign states were creating, starting with Croatia and Serbia but also soon popping up literally everywhere else. It was everywhere, in the military, in the councils and especially in the 'culture', the media. Soon enough Slovenia broke away, and the JNA moved their troops to the Slovenian border (standard practice when a state breaks away, wasn't a hostile action) and set up garrisons. The soldiers at these garrisons were JNA recruits and were ordered to keep their guns unloaded but with a magazine near by, I know this because my father served there as well as my wife's father, and reports started turning up about dead recruits, most of them haven't having loaded their guns even. I am unaware if there were escalations from the Serbian side before this, but this is what I know. From then on the war pretty much escalated, Croatian officers retracted loads of firearms and armored vehicles from Bosnia and Serbia to Croatia and declared independence, and Bosnia did too soon afterwards. War followed and pretty much every party in the conflict was disgustingly chauvinist and nationalist, you had deportations and genocides of Bosnians, Serbs, Croats. Entire communities and villages being wiped out or exiled in the course of the night. Now here's the kicker: based on ex-CIA testimonies from officers who worked in Yugoslavia, Milosevic was an asset that participated in the split of Yugoslavia, but turncoated because he figured out NATO was setting him up to be the sacrificial lamb of the entire conflict, and did a 180 turn to save his hide and what he can of Yugoslavia (This was of course not out of any panslavic patriotism or ideologically motivated, he found out he got duped and was trying literally everything to turn the situation around) when right before he was readily complacent in it's partition between Croatia Bosnia and Serbia. Paramilitary groups formed on the Serbian side, and while they defended some Serbian settlements they also committed war crimes and were war profiteers to the core, so technically JNA was clean but did literally nothing to stop these paramilitaries. But in fairness, this happened on all sides. Under the shade of war, the breakaway Yugoslavian states started massive privatization, basically selling away their industry to foreign capital for change that was pocketed by the new bourgeois ruling class. In Serbia during the war time Sloba's privatizations stopped but Serbian industry (just like the rest of Yugoslav industry) was still a target and the main reason for the war/splitting of Yugoslavia. Civilian industry was bombed to dust basically, creating shortages and leaving very little in the post-war time. This is important, remember it for later.
Fast forward a bit, allegedly Sloba signed the peace treaty NATO was offering him because he was threatened with greater intensity of bombing, also because the Yugoslavian economy was broken and people were discontent to the maximum at this point. Soon after he was pulled from power by the so-called "democratic revolution", which was a NATO backed colored revolution, it was very strong with mass support and succeeded in getting Sloba out of power and establishing it's "Democracy". People were very disappointed when they saw shit didn't get much better, the sanctions were lifted but suddenly 80% of the industry was privatized almost instantly, most of the heavy industry was literally closed off as to make Serbia dependent on foreign imports, and suddenly the IMF debt we got sanctioned for seemed pathetically small to the booming debt the new government racked up, but suddenly there was no issue about it. The civilian industry that was before the leading industry in Europe and some of it in the world was closed down and sold off for scraps. Fact is, this happened in all the ex-yugo states. They have effectively become economic zones, colonies for the EU where they come and construct industry because we have been rendered incapable of doing it on our own, they keep labor cheap trough crippling unemployment (officially around 15% per ex-Yugo state but realistically around 35%-50%), where you have 10.000 people on the job market vying for your job, but you do the job of 5 people at work, with labor laws hilariously slanted against you so you literally can't do anything to improve your cripplingly low wage, and huge work hours. And of course another common thing, which is not getting payed on time, with workers waiting up to 14 months to receive their pays because they can't risk losing a job and joining the permanently unemployed statistic.
You forgot that Kosovo is also where the mining and heavy industry is, and the aesthetic of communism being tied to those. It wasn't about tzar graves, it was about coal.
Now, what about muh Kosovo?
Kosovo is a delicate question. First off the Serbians there have historically lived there the longest, but under ottoman rule that lasted some 400 years Albanians started migrating more and more into the territory until they were the majority there. Originally this was like a 50/50 split back in 1918, but the Albanian population boomed fairly quickly and Serbians moved out more and more, slanting it to something like 75/25 in favour of the Albanian population. Despite this, this was literally the oldest Serbian land with lots of heritage sites like old monasteries. During WWII Croats, Germans and Albanians enacted genocide upon Serbians, and the Albanians that enacted genocide upon Serbians did so in Kosovo, making the bias at the end of the war something like 90/10. Since Tito was a Yugoslavian socialist he didn't see any need to commit reparations against the Albanian civilian population in Kosovo, so it stayed this way. But funnily enough the administration of Kosovo was mostly Serbian until the 60's, mostly due to the fact that the administrators of Kosovo were the original liberators of Kosovo, which were Serbian partisans. As time went on the Albanian population grew and grew and Serbs moved away, and this got even worse because Tito waged an economic war against Hoxha both trough sanctions on Albania and offering any Albanian to make it over the border an apartment in Kosovo. All this created rising ethnic tensions and they escalated even further in the Milosevic years, as Albanians started being treated as second rate citizens basically, and got pushed out of administration. Albanians started acting out against Serbian civilians, Serbs started acting out against Albanians, a Hoxhaist guerilla turned islamic terrorists (UCK) commited war crimes against the Serbian population there, funded and armed by the NATO pact. Kosovo independence was pushed by the NATO states under the threat of war, and it was given independence. Immediately afterwards it became a police state managed by the American military, with the largest military base in europe being constructed literally in the middle of it.
Read Parenti.
Serbitches had a landgrabbing cunning plan.
It failed miserably.
Wow. Thanks for all this info.
Do you think the nationalist sentiment still lives in the people or they would put difference aside and recreate something similar to Yugoslavia one day?
The government in Kosovo is made up of literal terrorists that participated in genocide against the Serbian population (Not that much different from the rest of ex-yu, where war profiteers have become the large capitalists and politicians) and the government can't move a finger without American supervision. The government is extremely unpopular but this is censored to the outside world, because it contradicts the situation going on there. The Kosovar Albanians are realizing that they are under military occupation, and not independent. That Kosovo was created only to keep the balkan peninsula in check by stationing 5000 American soldiers.
But there are more reasons than just tactical military reasons. Kosovo sits on a wealth of zinc, copper and nickle that is around 4.3 trillion in worth, and it is being used as a colony. All of this is being extracted and sold off for laughably low costs, and the poor Kosovars are payed even more poorly than the proletariat in the rest of ex-Yugoslavia.
So Kosovo is literally an occupied territory in southern Serbia, created only to keep the balkan in check and to extract minerals trough neocolonialism. No leftist should recognize Kosovo, it isn't a state. The workers of Kosovo have a right to self determination and if they wish to be free/independent they have every right to, but to say this is independence or freedom is to spread false consciousness.
So this is basically the entire Yugoslav clusterfuck. Nationalists who wormed themselves into the party (which opened up to literally everybody in the 60's) and dismantled Yugoslavia on the CIA's payroll, while Euro states sat on the sidelines and profited (Germany getting rid of old DDR gear by selling it off to Croats and Bosniaks, just look at their guns and helmets), the worm Milosevic figured out he got set up as a sacrificial lamb and turned at the end but it was too late, Everything was sold off and a territory was annexed in the literal center of the balkans under the pretense of democracy and liberation.
Franjo Tudjman was literally tried for war crimes post-WWII and sat in jail for it. Slobodan was a literal banker who kicked off the privatizations. It tells you what sort of people got their hands on Yugoslavia.
have this rare interview of the general:
youtube.com
It started with a Lie Nato Aggression against Serbia 1999
youtube.com
I don't see any future Yugoslavian unity along national lines unfortunately. I think that if ever a Yugoslavia arises again it will be based on economic interest, as the only way for the various balkan states to be economically independent is if they are unified. On their own they just don't have the population, resources or industrial capacity to become anything. It is why they are such shitholes today.
one thing I forgot to mention: the saddest part out of this whole war I think, is the fact that the 'Yugoslavs", the people who wanted unity, were pacifists in the face of all of this. They protested the war, dodged drafts and cried as they were forced to leave their life-long friends because they were x or y ethnicity. There was a lot of them, mostly middle aged and thirty years old, I think that if they were more violent like the nationalists were, if they sacked the war mongers that got into the party and took their rights, that Yugoslavia would still hold today. Today these people that were pacifists are disillusioned from everything. They went trough a war that shattered their country, saw socialism crumble and massively lost trust in it, fought at full force for the democratic revolution and afterwards saw that it was an oligarchy only of a different kind. The generation that was pro-yugo has given up on politics completely. That is what is darkest to me.
this, see
fuck back off to Zig Forums, NATO war criminal shill
bringing this thread back from the dead. Why the fuck does a thread always die after I info dump?
Are you by any chance that "old" guy who also managed to live a bit during the tito era?
Watch/Read Parenti
Doesn't Parenti think that Milosevic was a dindu? I'm getting sick of leftist perspectives on the Yugoslav Wars that are pretty much Serbia apologists. I know this sounds liberal, but it's one of the few conflicts I think there were no redeemable sides
no. I was born during the war, but I have siblings who lived the war and parents who lived in Tito's time.
Not exactly. He just pointed out that anti-Milosevic propaganda got ridiculous, with no evidence.
How's SKOJ these days btw?
dying
t.ex-skoj
Are they still Milosevic apologist?
Pic related was funny as fuck, they should have shoot him
we were never Milosevic apologists really, like we criticized Sloba for what he did (nationalism, privatization) but at the same time he defended "Yugoslavia" (Serbia & Montenegro at that point) from foreign capital. It is true that he was anti-imperialist that doesn't mean he wasn't a nationalist piece of shit, look at the various right african countries that are anti-imperialist. We had a few Slobaboos but I never liked them.
The Yugoslav military high command. If only they had couped Milosevic and crushed the separatists early on, all would be well.
He was a Serbian imperialist
milosevic was no good, but like chomsky says, the US shouldn't have intervened and did more harm than good
go die
I think that NATO should have been more restrained in it’s bombing campaing but Milosevic was a disgusting, genocidal piece of shit and I’m glad that he died.
Communism is the material manifestation of Islam. Deal with it infidel.
"If it's biased in favor of Serbian ethnonationalist militias pursuing ethnic cleansing it's okay, at least they were not American!"
The absolute state of Zig Forums.
He means the burgers would side with the nationalists solely to spite dem fuggin pinkos.
Count yourself lucky that no one accused you of idpol for not supporting Serbian irredentism.
Defending Muslims from ethno-religious persecution is not the same thing as defending Islam as an ideology or identity. That's as stupid as saying we shouldn't care about the genocide of Yazidis by ISIS.
you don't even know what imperialism means. Declarations of war isn't imperialism, for an example the Kuomingtang wasn't imperialist to Maoists during the chinese civil war, that doesn't make their position any more correct. You are just throwing around buzzwords like an idiot. Imperialism in the sense of capitalism is the subordination and exploitation of foreign labor by your bourgeois, at no point was private industry or industry at all threatened by Slobodan Milosevic in ex-Yugoslavia, in fact he was the one that created the first private enterprises in Yugoslavia and this wasn't bound to Serbia alone. It is annoying when any war mongering or aggression is painted as "imperialism", like some retards on this board quacking about Assad being imperialist (lmao)
was the north imperialist against south secessionists? was North Korea "Imperialist"during the Korean war? Was Georgia "Imperialist" against the Azers? Call Sloba for what he was, a nationalist warmonger and traitor, but he wasn't imperialist. You are diluting the term until it means nothing. And fact is he defended the national bourgeois and the state industry from foreign large capital, that classifies him as anti-imperialist.
What exactly does this mean?
Chinese interested in privatizations of large Serbian firms
Chinese firms want to engage in capital flight, encouraging privatization in other countries is a door to that. Same for state owned enterprises who want enterprises that create revenue in currencies more valuable than the yuan because their domestic economy is shaky at the moment.
Or in other words, capitalism happened.
fuck off, his is nation that's been dealing with imperialism forever
Chetniks committed war crimes during WWII in the name of Greater Serbia…
nobody fought for any monarchy in either the war in bosnia OR the one on kosovo
Yes, the people who dislike a genocidal warmongering far-right extreminst are the edgy ones. If NATO attacks someone it makes him automatically good because reasons.