I think porn is evil. I consider myself quite despooked and i'm not religious, but my femdom fetish took me to a point i wasted hours and mental energy on fapping to things i wasn't even sure i liked in first place.
What do you, as a leftist, think about porn?
Should be its commercialisation permitted in a communist society?
Should it be permitted at all?
Other urls found in this thread:
paulcockshott.wordpress.com
marxists.org
psychologytoday.com
twitter.com
Porn isn't evil. Men are evil, rapist, mysoginistics monsters. Whether or not porn should be banned is only a matter of whether or not it intensifies the already pedophile and rapist nature of man.
Absolutley disgusting, evil and should be banned and people behind it shot.
Pro-porn.
I see it as a valid art form, which obviously can be created for passionate or commercial reasons (or both, inasmuch as any art which is sold can be).
Porn is bad so is prostitution.
curiosity, are you male or female? And what kind of porn do you watch?
there is nothing wrong with it
3dpd
Yes there is.
Id like to see more research into its psychological effects in the long term.
I know too many people who consume excessive porn and rapidly dive towards increasingly deviant fetishes
Male.
And not much - but I'm too namefag to answer that. But I have filmed amateur, and been asked a few times to do professional.
I am against porn.Pornography in it's current state is a very ugly symptom of crapitalism.
waifus r not porn, baka!
Don't blame an entire art form for of your own insecurities, perversions and weaknesses
Porn as an industry is will be destroyed under socialism. I don't have a problem with people uploading pictures or videos of themselves online for fun though.
make me feel so goood I love it
nothing will be commercial in a communist society
citation needed
It makes sense to do so. If you have been on chans for a decent time you'll know that today's porn makes you desensitized to lighter stuff and is made in such way you'll dig deeper and deeper until you became addicted to stuff you didn't even know existed or used to disgust you. There are a lot of normal kids without particular mental health problems who proudly show their kilometric list of fetishes aquired with time in "what are yours" threads on imageboards. Maybe it cliks with some people and doesn't with some others, but we can't denied that it's the leading cause of that happening. My story is not an isolated one.
I love porn. But only hentai though, & only doujinshi.
genuine amateur porn and doujins are good and gommunism.
Everything else will wither away.
a couple can record themselves fucking and post it somewhere if they want
someone can draw smut of any kind they want.
no commercialization though.
just stop fapping so much.
Whatever.
Yes.
Yes.
sucks for you, most ppl dont have these problems
citation needed
I fap to vanilla porn and mild e34 since I was 14
Porn is good but sex is better. Sex mandates are better.
But what if it… it's actually the darkness deep inside you [pause]. The primordial struggle of order against chaos, and you, bucko, are letting yourself down [tears welling up]. You have to stop blaming the world for your own weakness… and harness that, that darkness. That urge to… [swallows audibly] to watch video's of women stepping on a men's balls (is that what femdom is?). You have to turn it around and bring that sick urge into the light, and order it. Dady-o.
In all seriousness, if you find that happening to you, and you don't like it, then stop watching porn. But don't presume that others have the same inclination to "sink deeper", or self hatred when they do. Absent a serious and visible public health crisis, this is all a whole lot of moral panic going on.
what the fuck is that pic???
eh, what?
Femdom is the shit, liking femdom doesn't mean you have to like or jack it to torture porn or leather and whips shit.
The current porn industry is monstrous and very damaging to the women involved. I know several women who used to be porn stars and even won awards who were human trafficked the entire time. They modeled for playboy while being owned by a pimp. And none it was hidden. The stories about the more "hard-core" companies are horrifying. One of the women was in several scenes with Max Hardcore and she said after the brutal scenes he would get her drunk and then break her toes with pliers and then dub her screams into the scenes.
read better
I'm not saying it's impossible to remain vanilla, i'm saying that for a lot of people that simply doesn't happen. I know a lot of people who had the same problem of fetshes escalation, including my girlfriend (if porn addiction + gf seems to you a little bit strange, actually when we used to live together we both stopped watching porn, but began another time after moving). Also, i'm not sure even normal porn is very healthy, it represents such a plastified and unrealistic view of sex…
it's like to say to an alcoholic "simply stop drinking" xDDD
Anyway i didn't want to make it a personal thing, i made this thread to discuss a political problem. Like also noticed, porn has a really bad effect on a lot of people, and that is not something that can't be ignored, also because sexuality is quite an important part in society's and power structures' functionality.
Well it very obviously skews perception about how to have sex and what's pleasurable for women. 2 minutes of clit licking and fingerbanging aren't enough to get any woman off and the vast majority of women can't orgasm from penetrative sex. This doesn't just misinform men but women too, as at least in the US porn makes up the majority of sexual education someone will recieve
This has literally happened forever……….
I think porn is bad because it gives people wrong image of sex, like how model girls and photoshopped ads make teens starve themself to look like them………..
The public health effects of alcoholism are well known and well studied. When it comes to porn, what little research I am aware of seems rather dubious.
based user has spoken the truth.
Not really.
My first encounters with weird porn were searching for things I had already thought about. IF there were any cultural sources, they were almost exclusively PG.
Jesus…
Also porn is racist and violent most of the time.
One doesn't have to be scientist to confirm that porn makes you have strsnge fetish. Just look at how porn was at its inception and how it is now
When are we even marking its inception?
Because, like, De Sade wrote his stuff a long-ass time ago… and a lot of that stuff is still illegal to even do.
Pornography as an art=/=pornography as mass consumption
Yeah while Max Hardcore is pretty extreme, violence against women in porn is widespread. Rosebudding, prolapse, wombfucking are all legal scenes that get filmed. While those are pretty extreme, the sites that produce that content get millions of views a month. There's a popular site that I can't remember the name of that has extreme oral where women are face fucked so brutally they vomit and then are forced to eat it. The owner makes tons of money from it. The fact that commercialized violence against women is not only legal, but immensely profitable is deeply disturbing to me.
Porn is not bad but the industry is fucked up. People will fuck on camera no matter what but people's economic future should not dependent it.
The sites it's called facialabuse.com.
The owner is the same of ghettogaggers, abusedlatina. He goes by the name of Duke Skywalker on twitter. I happen to know him personally, pretty disgusting man.
Who cares if it is strange, long as it is not a public nuisance.
I'll rape you to death with the goalpost you're moving.
Which it is and is becoming. People are not ashamed of consuming porn anymore
Meant for
t. Zig Forums
You know what to do
That's not what it means. Unless they jizz on my leg during my commute, it doesn't count.
Yeah, I'm not going into specifics otherwise I'll expose myself too much, but the guy has some beefs with really bad people. From my understanding he was involve in some bad shit during the fall of the eastern block, actually his first works where filmed there with local girls. Obviously all the girls who go doing shit with him are addicts or crazy, he himself is a junkie. He opened his company in america after he fucked up with some nasty people and he owned a lot of money. Now I'm not really familiar with porn laws but from my understanding certain type of stuff he did in estern europe was not legal in certain states of the US. But now he operates in new jersey last I knew.
This said, the guy won't last another decade seen the beefs he has with the bad guys I mentioned on top of my post. Never understood if he's irish or italian. From the luck he has I'd say irish tho. Seriously, this guy would put to shame fucking cats
You're either being obstinate or trying to hide your shameful porn addiction.
Neither would be surprising coming from a self proclaimed hedonist.
Although it always takes longer, I find cosmic justice tastes oh so much sweeter.
How so? Is not a public nuisance both public and - a nuisance? How is the naked knowledge of someone else consuming porn a nuisance?
How long until it happens?
Public doesn't mean 'what I see around me' you fucking moron. Its the populace at large. The opioid epidemic doesn't need people to literally die outside on the streets, trains, and so on to be label a public crisis.
What the hell?
But they do need to die. If all opoid users just used without affecting their productivity and longlivity and so on, it would not be a health crisis, just harmless recreation.
There are not swaths of people wallowing in unemployment and crowding the hospital wards because of their porn addiction. At best a few self-obsessed weaklings making blogposts, to fuel the moral panic industry.
...
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I'd say people who spend their time producing good quality porn will be allowed to do that full-time under communism. If that's what they want to do with their lives, why not let them? It's socially useful to the extent that people enjoy watching porn.
It would probably end up having a very different character though. Much less exploitative.
leftypol is a pol larping board. polack larpers will happily pretend to hate capitalism but when it comes to issues that grind their gears like gays existing or people bumping uglies, the masks come off. except they call d.egeneracy "idpol" or "bourgeoisie decadence", most of the time anyway
Are you this morally outraged at a woman working in an office or a factory? Selling yourself for money, whether it is working in a factory or starring in a porn video, is subjecting yourself to exploitation and there is no reasonable consent. But opposition to commodified labour is not the same as opposition to labour. The exploitation of the sex worker is not an indictment of sex work, no more than the exploitation of a factory worker is an indictment of making shirts. Your argument is just bourgeois moralism veiled in paper-thin socialist rhetoric.
So what? They are right on this isusse tbh.
Pornography, like it exist today, is a product of capitalism and capitalist mentality. Even amateur porn, which you can't know if it's uploaded with both consenting parts, is bad.
No one in here made an argument pro pornography, I have yet to seen one justify its existence outside of a capitalist society.
There is nothing puritan about it, my complaint is not only that is harmful and exploits the people involved, but the effects it has on sexuality. I don't have nothing against people having sex with people they just met. I'd rather have that than prepackaged fake sex.
Now you can make an argument any day, or you can say like the retard you are responding too that they are consenting to it so everything its alright, except "MUH Zig Forums" for everything that doesn't rappresent your ideal society of liberalism and ignorance.
This board is made for people who want to change the current mode of production and are inspired by marx/Kropotkin or past revolutions. Now did marx or past revolutions deal with pornography? Did marx, lenin or stalin wrote something about it? Then were you are taking you ideas of what's leftist or not from? I tell you from were, from the new left. The cia psyop that made the left a bunch of vegans liberal shills.
No, pornography is disgusting an should be abolished or just stopped. Zig Forums would agree with me? Good. Now explain why you'd disagree with me. Because there is nothing inerenthly right wing in being against prostitution and pornography last time I checked, it's free domain. Every idea here is accepted
There's nothing wrong with porn as such, the problem is as always capital, that pushes the porn workers into more and more degrading shit to compete in the industry.
In communist society, porn will be done by exhibisionists, of which I suspect there are many.
Yes it fucking is. No, factory labour is not the same thing as sex labour. Historically prostitution has been the work of sex slaves and exclusive to sex slaves.
I'll redirect you to this article wrote by dr. Cockshott
paulcockshott.wordpress.com
And I will also remind you that sex work was non existent in the USSR, CUBA, CHINA, NORTH KOREA, EASTERN BLOCK ecc.
No one died because of these and now days most sex workers would gladly avoid being sex workers. It's still and will always be stigmatized by a sane society.
CAN'T COCKBLOCK THE COCKSHOTT
Which I don't think it's true because if ex socialist coundries didn't have it before the exposure to capitalism I don't see why it's in nature. That said this is beyond the point, I'm ok with consenting adults doing it this way seen how they are in a minority. That said the 18 years old who does porn because he wants to be famous like kim k and gets payed 200k for a year work and than stops working (but the stigma remains and she can' t work anywhere) It's not consenting and it's a product of capitalism. This without touching the girls who do it because they have 0 other chances
Irrational drivel. The onus is not on proving that it is a good, but that it is harmful. Laws and prohibitions need to be justified, not the other way around. At any length, though, there is obviously a "good" in pornography, or people would not want it - it gives them delicious base pleasure (and unlike say heroin, no one here has proven any clear downside on the consumption side). It is self-evidently popular, which is what is irking you so. Yet you do not get to decide what people are allowed to want.
You keep hammering on "[production of] pornography in capitalist society is harmful". Sure. So is the manufacture of clothes. So is the production of sugar for confectionery. Nothing produced under capitalism is benign. Because it is produced under capitalism. You have nothing except for "it is icky to me therefore it is extra bad". Fuck that. I don't care what you think.
Until the day we outlaw porn by democratic consensus, you have not a leg to stand on.
On point.
The argument for pornography is a simple one: people can do what they fucking want. If someone wants to put up a video of them jerking off, all power to them. In the absence of wage labour and the commodity form, there is literally no marxist argument against sex work.
Yes, sex work is the exact same thing as factory work. You are selling your labour power, the use of your body for a certain period of time, for a wage. I have read Dr. Cockshott and while I like his economics he is plainly wrong on this matter. Marx writes in Wage Labour and Capital that what the proletariat is selling, their labour power, is the use of their bodies for a certain period of time. There is no difference in this regard between sex work and factory work. This labour goes towards producing a service which is sold for an exchange value, and thus it must have a use value. Your moralism about 'sex slaves' doesn't change that.
Now, prostitution will likely disappear in any socialist society unless you had some sort of system of state-mandated gf's or some such - and socialist opposition to prostitution probably had a lot more to do with the fact that it was a black market activity. But this is all besides the point, because we are not talking about prostitution we are talking about posting videos on the internet, which is very different. A porn video could be a professionally acted film, it could be an art project (yes, there is artistic porn, google hysterical literature for an example), or it could be a completely amateur production. I could film a video of me jerking off right now and post it on the internet - there is no money, no coercion, not even any labour - and somehow through some kind of magic I am exploiting myself. It makes no sense.
Pornography co-operatives are the future vanguard of socialism!
Fuck the workers literally, not figuratively!
Gently and lovingly, naturally.
woah woah woah hold up
Marx does not say that prostitution is "sex work" or that its the same as factory work. He focused on factory work because he was mostly concerned with wage labor. Prostitutes are not wage laborers, are not productive workers, and do not contribute socially necessary labor. Self-employed tumblr sex workers are petite bourgeoisie.
cockshott is paraphrasing marx
marxists.org
Would you say that a man who penetrates a woman at gunpoint for an hour is no worse than a man who forces a woman at gunpoint to stack some shelves for an hour?
All the anti-porn retards itt haven't made a single argument against amateur porn that is created by consenting adults for their own or others consumption.
A vast majority of sex work, whether prostitution or pornography, is a result of an economic system of private property in which a section of the proletariat/lumpenproletariat is forced by their economic conditions to rent out their bodies for the use of others, amounting to the exploitation of sexual labour which in many cases is particularly harmful and should be opposed by socialists in its entirety. Under capitalism the further commodification of sex and the human body as sex work is aimed at exchange rather than use values.
It is reasonable to assume that if the material conditions resulting in sex work were gone as would be the case in socialism, where people would no longer exist in a state of economic insecurity and had guaranteed livelihood, prostitution would cease in its entirety (this is discounting the possibility of individuals soliciting sex in exchange for favours and the like which are certainly very minor but unlikely to be eliminated). As it is also reasonable to assume that a vast majority if not all people have better things to do with their lives than to have sex on camera, the porn industry too would cease to exist.
However none of this precludes the production of amateur porn. Doubtless consenting individuals would still record themselves having sex and the countless fetishes out there, many of them will also distribute these recordings for the consumption of others. Artists will also continue to draw porn of their own desire as many do.
The notion that there is no marxist approach to sex work since neither Marx nor Engels nor Lenin wrote about it, is not only profound dogmatism completely alien to the marxist method, nevermind the fact that Marx was rather explicit about prostitution being merely one specific expression of the general prostitution of the labourer.
Equally the notion that sex work was non-existent in the USSR, eastern bloc etc. is blatantly wrong as prostitution existed in all of these despite being either unacknowledged or illegal since the material causes of prostitution were by no means eliminated in these societies.
The notion that amateur porn wouldn't be produced and distributed in socialist society is also false since it is documented that citizens of eastern bloc states did produce and distribute porn of their own accord.
The situation is quite simple. Our concern as communists is not with sex work, but with the abolition of capitalism and the bringing about of a community of property. This new underlying system of relations of production will organically form the basis of social relations between individuals in the new society. I see no reason why these would result in an end to the production of porn.
An addendum to this, before I go to bed: Sex work plainly creates use values - it could not exist if there wasn't a need for it. Now, use values and the unfulfilled needs of the populace may change, which will render some forms of work obsolete, and sex work might be one of them. There is no doubt that commodified sex work, such as traditional prostitution, has to be eliminated. However, I highly doubt the unfulfilled sexual desires of the populace will suddenly disappear under socialism. The fascination people in the Soviet Republics had for pornography should be more than indicative of an unfulfilled need. So we will need a way to fulfil them, just as a socialist society has to fulfil all kinds of other needs, whether this is state-mandated gf's or a serious liberalisation of our sexual attitudes. Regardless, uncommodified pornography in the form of amateur videos etc. is not going anywhere.
Use value is a precondition for exchange value. 'Nuff said.
STOP
WATCHING
PORN
Pretend that I'm an alien and you have to explain me this: What exactly constitutes the use value (or use values) of the service of a prostitute?
Sexual gratification of the customer. That's the use value for him or her. This is not complicated.
Where's the use of this subjective value pervert?
pottery
Proof that there is consensus from both? You are aware that revenge porn is a thing right?
These things fall under individual responsibility and bear no relation to marxism sweetie. The line of argument is simple: people make porn whether or not capitalism and/or private property is involved, as such they will continue to do so in communism.
No mode of production is absent of rape, murder, betrayal and all the horrors of human of human social interaction. In communism people will still kill eachother in fits of rage, commit domestic abuse, rape the vulnerable and act in mean-spirited vengefulness.
Communism will do a great deal by eliminating the scarcity and providing security to individuals, thus eliminating many of the perverse incentives that social orders predicated on private property and production for exchange generate to do harm to others. However it would be silly to think this alone will return us to a prelapsarian garden of eden without human conflict. We can do some things to limit these by creating harmonious communities and providing individuals with the means to defend themselves, however the inevitable price of human freedom is the possibility that we may be hurt by our own actions and those of others.
Communism being a society where individual liberty is maximised, means also a society where individual responsibility is great. We will have to learn to live with eachother without hurting ourselves so much.
If you read past the first page of Capital you would realise that you have no idea what use value is.
oh so i take it you've actually read it now :^)
Some dude I met on /b/ got his hands on this leaked nude of some random slut… So I thought I'd further help to get these out there
Of course not, no one on leftypol has.
simply ebin
Blaming porn for perversion or addiction is like blaming guns for murder, except it isn't even harmful to society for the most part. In fact, sex crimes tend to be worse in places where porn is illegal: psychologytoday.com
People are just weird and that is a fact of life. Normalcy as a myth sounds like politically correct drivel, but it is very much true.
Porn is d.generate and exploitative
No socialist shall support this
DEATH PENALTY FOR ALL PORN CEOS
not sure about hentai and homemade
kys
porn is gay
porn is the ultimate act of capitalism, it is the ultimate spectacle
I personally think that porn consumption and therefore porn creation will greatly decrease under communism to a near niche or artistic level. I feel like habitual porn consumption is like other unhealthy habits, you don't necessarily indulge in it just because you happened to become "addicted" to it but because on some level you feel unfulfilled in your personal life and have problems which you are trying to avoid/mitigate. I think in communism the hope is that people will go out and indulge the healthy and more productive activities they always wanted to and would be inclined to do anyway outside of capital. Very few people actually want to do porn (like many other things in capitalism) and most don't necessarily want to be watching it, what they really want is meaningful relationships that they can engage authentically in and in which they are able to share themselves openly with their spouse. Porn, in its current form, serves as a way of coping with the fact of either not having a relationship, not being in a functional one, or some other underlying problem.
I like it, porn is freedom of expression. Porn artists are just as working class as the rest of us. Most of the artists I know of use patreon for donations. All of the art-work they do is for free.
Yet people fuck regularly and get off. Wheres the problem again?
Why is this such a hot fuckin topic? I understand chan boards are dominated by alienated white nerds, but christ keep that nofap nogf meme shit on r9k.
/thread
Porn as an industry is pretty shit since it drags people who are financially struggling and abused people into it, in Communism I bet there will still be people who wanna have sex and share it online so porn wont be eliminated and I'm sure with some form of advanced ai's you could just render up whatever you want without having people actually fuck. My main antagonism with the industry is obviously the exploitation of peoples bodies for profit which is disgusting along with some of the horrible conditions they work in and how they attract newer actors into the industry.
Porn itself is not inherently bad or good since it dosn't need exploitation to exist and some ametuer porn stars for instance actually enjoy their "jobs" (or hobbies) and don't even do it for profit or the necessity of profit. Obviously the industry needs a huge cleanup and we'll see how it fares after it stops being exploitative and drawing in new models in exploitative ways and becomes a thing of people freely and not being coerced into pornography.
Obsession with productivity, capitalist apologist without even realizing. Your poosts reveal so much about you, remove the red flag, you're not worthy of it!
Quote mining doesn't work when people can read the post you're quoting, fam.
following your logic, guns cause murder lol. If more porn = less rape is true, then why when you compare U.S.A. murder and shootings rates with any other civil country's ones you get that america is the shit it actually is? Things are more complex than that, also states where porn is banned or limited are usually less secularized and so have a more misogynistic mentality.
I don't need to quote mine, his logic, his reasoning is shared with the rulling capitalist ideology, where everything is permitted, and people should enjoy themselves and so on.
Obsession with health for example, another liberal talking point, same for "recreation", his whole logic is mainstream, if you can't see that then you need to educate yourself on ideology because you're full of it.