I've had this opinion for a long time, and I figured Zig Forums would be a good place to discuss it since it has a large international user base.
In my lerso al opinion, if the revolution happens anywhere other than the United States, it will fail. Simply because the United States will destroy it. The U.S. has unquestionably the largest, most experienced, and technologically advanced military in the world by far. Even with the U.S. empire and economy in decline they have the economic muscle to sanction smaller socialist nations into virtual oblivion like Venezuela and North Korea. Even other western powers would fall victim to this. Assuming communists aren't just voted into office, which isn't going to happen, the political struggle that takes place in order to put communists into power will weaken said nation enough to make it vulnerable, and the United States gets to play the hero stopping the evil terrorist commies trying to seize power by force.
I'm perfectly aware of the fact that America is one of the most class cucked nations on earth, second only to Japan and South Korea, but that is what makes out our situation that much more urgent.
Well no. I would oppose any type of revolution, even socialist, coming from the US. Actually I'd argue that even in a communist society we shouldn't let Americans roam free.
Luis Rogers
Thats a pretty bigoted view to have on 350 million people who primarily have little to nothing to do with the actual functions of our government.
Andrew Fisher
I could say the same thing about the nazi but no one would agree with that.
Gabriel Morris
That's why we need to destroy the American empire first before we attempt a real revolution elsewhere.
Parker Johnson
Kill yourself, faggot. Why would you shun a genuine socialist revolution coming from America, the most powerful country on Earth? Just because America has a corrupt imperialistic government doesn't mean its people are all like that
Gavin Collins
We can allow them to have socialism….. after burning their flags killing their soldiers(regardless of race) killing their businessmen killing their politicians killing basicaly all of their right wingers(aka over 80% of their population) then we can have chinese and korean cutes immigrate there to destroy and transform their national identity.
Gabriel Bennett
"people" in america enlist in the army to pay college feeds and than brag about killing people. "people" are corporate drones, fake, ignorant, hedonistic, nihilist and hollow. Yes, I would oppose a socialist revolution coming from a country that has an higher atrocity and kill count than imperial japan and nazi germany combined. Americans are terrible people. Following your reasoning you should be against the bombing campaign lead by the allies in germany and the bombings in japan, are you against those? Are american against those? Then why should I be against putting americans in the same category of animals as their government? What did america do for the world? How americans act when they are outside of their country? You are no better than your government, even if you wished
James Cook
See I agree with this
Jason Adams
Bruv the same fucking thing was true in 1910s Россия.
Sebastian Robinson
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. In 2018 you guys are still behind russians in 1910.
Elijah Walker
Yeah I'm sure no-one anywhere else does this. Have you ever read the diary of a reActionary Russian officer during the first world war? It's far worse.
Congratulations you just described all humans, including yourself.
"OMFG AN EMPIRE ACTED IMMORALLY TO PROTECT ITS OWN IMTERESTS THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE!!!
The only reason ancient empires didn't have higher kill counts is only because they didn't have comparable technology. Jesus Christ you are spooked.
Not even vaguely similar we are talking about a post revolution America not a Nazi world conquering America.
Because they have about as much power and say in their system as a peasant farmer does in a feudal kingdom.
Were actually good tourists. Better than the Chinese at least.
Nolan Clark
If revolution happens in Russia revolutionaries may seize nuclear weapons and use it in cause military or economic intervention.
Ian Allen
You are not a socialist then
That's why you have a fucking revolution. If the masses were okay with that kill count, they wouldn't have a revolution in the first place. That's why there isn't one going on now and it looks like there won't be for a long time. But to oppose any future revolution in America shows how little you understand about how revolutions work. Acquiring the class consciousness necessary to have a revolution means the masses will have very different views than they have right now. Besides, it's not the proles who are responsible for that kill count.
Leo Hughes
Living condition in russia were different, russia is a different country, russia becaume socialist in spite of him. Also, yes. No one brags about being a military guy in my country, people get beaten to death if they wear military shirts or some shit like that. They have their own small places to go and no one wants to be around them. We don't glorify nor them or cops. People who in high school say even as a joke to aspire in a military/cop career are threated as snitches and just despised. They grow up alone and have no friend. Most people who end up in this roles are there just because their daddy was one. It wasn't always like this. Also admitting that 1910 russia ideas are still present in 2018 america is proof that you don't deserve shit. Also you proving that you think america is the whole world, which is a tipical simpleton american idea and also pretty imperialist. Also russia was never as imperialist as america and people revolted which you don't even think of doing Which is not true because school shootings, rapes ecc. Are enough of a proof that america is far more alienated than anyother country in the western world. Also in my country and most of other countries (especially ex socialist) stuff like tinder ecc. Is viewed as disgusting. Acting as corporate drone is disgusting, no one is gonna like you because you wear american stuff. They'll just see you as a tool and steal money from you. Not what I was trying to say. If we condemn nazi germany and imperial japan and we do justify what the allies did to them, why should make an exception for america? Same thing. Nothing good can ever come out of america. Which is not true. Russian revolted, eastern europeans did, italians did (but american obviously were not fine with it so they left fascist in power), cubans did, koreans did. Everyone fucking did. Americans didn't revolt, ok, but they also actively participated in their submission. Even when there was a possibility of change you turned it down. Proving all my points. You are so fucking ignorant and out of touch that you don't know how much people despise you and how many countries you flooded with sex turist, how much violence you commit and how many times you get away with it. Why would I ever fucking want anything from you?
Yes, where's yours? Yes they are. Why people in your country go fight in iraq instead of working at McDonald's? Why people love your government even more when it bombs a country? Where are the woke and conscious people in your country and what are they doing to oppose wars? Are they condemning your past action? Bernie sanders didn't even talk about foreign policy and he's a self claimed socialist. I can be behind the idea of succdem, but not ignoring all your damage. You are unaware of what you country rappresent, what your people did, what we think of you, what are you guys doing to our countries. If you really were serious about your intentions you should talk about sucide not revolution. You rapresent everything wrong with capitalism: as a country, as people, as ideas ecc. Whatever you'll do it will be wrong, even socialism. You'll do it in a way that it will bring harm
Xavier Carter
Burger apologists get the bullet too.
Gavin Nelson
Were reaching Zig Forums levels of discourse here.
Really well thought out and cogent argument you made there that 100% refuted all of my points. 10/10.
Matthew Foster
Xenophobia the post.
I'm at work I'll deal with what you said in detail when I get home.
Sebastian Edwards
Nuke the America's, not just the North all of it. t. American.
Luke Russell
sure is /int/ in here
Nathaniel Reed
Do you agree or not with burning the yankee flag, changing the name of the country and occupying it with korean comrades for the sake of keeping a watch on the remaining possible shill classcucks?
Wow those pictures sure prove that every American releases packs of dogs on innnocent Koreans and hangs people in trees! Let's kill all Americans now!
Sure is Zig Forums in here, wanting to genocide millions of innocent proles
Nathaniel Flores
Read bruce Cummings on the korean war you stupid shit, north korea doesn't even lie that much about what happened in the war. Sexual slavery is legal in korea when GI do it, during the yugoslav war there were massive human trafficking rings organized by americans. I'm not making shit up, it's all out there. These are people who wanted to use chemical warfare on korea. I don't think the whole dog thing is far from the truth
Isaiah Perez
I think we should just go with my plan :)
Bentley Torres
antigerman tier discourse
Lincoln Sanders
Which is not true because even German are more conscious than you guys. When communism arrived in germany we got attempted revolutions, parties and finally GDR. When it arrived in america we got racist unions, new left, hippies and SJW now. What a fucking joke of a country.
Ian Moore
Socialist Germany is best germany. Screw gorbachev.
Michael Robinson
i am not american you mongoloid, your /int/ tier posting is just idpol of the highest order. like antideutsche who believe that leftism is when you want all germans to die because they were nazis once.
Ethan James
Not true. I'm not accusing americans of being bad because their grandparents were criminals, but because they are still criminals
OP is stupid, and yet, you come out as the fucking retard
I'm saying this as a European, all of you are fucking stupid. Most of you are British, German, Italian, French, or Spanish. i'm British myself, but WE ARE STILL POLITICALLY NATO MEMBERS
WE ARE NOT HELPING ANYONE OR ANYTHING, BECOME A BETTER WORLD. WE ARE IN LARGE PART
USELESS
WE KEEP FUCKING PUTTING MERKEL BACK IN HER PLACE. WE ELECTED CAMERON. WE ELECTED MACCRON, OR COULD IT HAVE BEEN LE PEN? WE ELECTED THERESA MAY, WE DON'T EVEN NEED TO BRING UP ITALY OR SPAIN!
WAKE THE FUCK UP ALREADY! WE ARE NOT BETTER THAN AMERICANS AS LONG AS WE KEEP MAKING THE SAME FUCKING POLITICAL DECISIONS EN MASSE THAT HELP THEM TO BEGIN WITH!!!
IF WE ARE POLITICALLY MAKING OURSELVES WORSE, HOW DO WE DESERVE BETTER?
i AM SICK OF THE FUCKING WESTERN WORLD TRYING TO DISTANCE ITSELF FROM AMERICA
NEWSFLASH, AS LONG AS YOUR NATIONS KEEP THEIR FUCKING NAMES, YOUR POPULATIONS WILL ALWAYS INCREASE THE FUCKING SWAY THE US GOVERNMENT HAS OVER YOU
First my country is not a nato member or filo American. Second with the exception of England (which is can only justify for being culturally superior to americans and having a guy like corbyn) all those country got and are currently fucked by american hegemony, especially italy. What, it's their fault if they got americanized after being invaded?
Jaxson Flores
I think the main point that we are trying to make is that there isn't anything particularly special about Americans in regards to how le ebil they are.
Empires, all empires, including the ones your own people probably had in the past, commit atrocities, conquer people, do immoral things. Because that is the nature of empire. Most Americans can't even find Korea or any of the other countries we have invaded on a map so why do you seem to think that they not only know about but revel in these atrocities they almost certainly know absolutely nothing about?
Your demonizing of Americans to the point where you are without even batting an eye stripping them of their humanity and calling for an actual genocide goes beyond Goerbels. I'm going to guess you are probably South south east asian and we dropped bombs on your family or something, or maybe some fat American bought your gf and now your mad about it or something, but if these are your actual beliefs you are unironically a monster.
Jace Sanders
AND THEY KEEP FUCKING VOTING TO STAY FUCKED, JUST LIKE AMERICANS! SPAIN AND ITALY ARE THE WORST FUCKING EXAMPLES, BUT IT'S VERY HARD TO COMPARE WHEN SPEAKING ON TERMS OF GERMANY AND FRANCE; THEY WOULD DIE BEFORE THEY EVER TRY TO REVERSE THE DECISION TO SEPERATE FROM AMERICA BEFORE THEY BECOME FUSED AS A SIAMESE TWIN
GET IT THROUGH YOUR SKULL THAT COMPLACENCY AND ARROGANCE ARE ALL FOUNDED ON THE SMALLEST AND WEAKEST PLATFORM IMAGINABLE
WE EUROPEANS, FAR BEYOND US BRITS, ARE LARGELY APOLOGISTS TO OUR OWN FUCKING
WANT TO STOP AMERICA? OK GREAT PLAN, STOP THE WESTERN WORLD TO KICK START THE PROCESS
OH, YOU CAN'T DO THAT YET? HUH. I WONDER WHY THAT FUCKING IS
I'm not south east asian. But we want to make a list of all the possibilities? Count all the countries where Americans bombed civilians, raped and sold girls and treated us like second rate citizens in our own countries. There is a difference between what america does and old empires. Old empires brought soldiers, destroyed cities and enslaved you. Americans do this and then they bring McDonald's, liberalism, their bullshit and make sure you'll venerate them for the rest of your life castrating you, your country and your culture. This is sadic, this is evil. This is a special type of psychological warfare which is unique to americans. The real war is flighted after they finish with your country. It's fighted with your movies, music, celebrities and all your media. This is the greatest tool of american hegemony (being all of you a bunch of cowards, seen how you fight wars) not bombs ecc. They can destroy you and then kill every chance of people being conscious about it
That's because they got brainwashed by americans. Do you think that 24/7 exposure to american media has nothing to do with this? Explain how the 68' happend in france but not in America
Colton Anderson
I swear to god is Israel suddenly hated the US, you’d probably become pro-Israel.
Lincoln Nguyen
They are literally the same thing. Isreal is america and america is isreal. They are best buddies for a reason. If one dies the other stop existing the day after.
Eli Campbell
"AMERICA IS SOOOO BAD WE'RE SO MUCH BETTER"
"PLEASE IGNORE 20TH CENTURY COLONIALISM (OUR LONG COLLECTIVE HISTORY OF COLONIALISM ACTUALLY) AND OUR LARGE HISTORY OF BEING ALLIES OF THE UNITED STATES WITH THE EXEMPTION OF TIMES OF WORLD WAR, WE DON'T NEED TO TALK ABOUT THAT
"PLEASE DON'T BRING OUR PUBLIC CONCEPTION OF OUR POLITICAL DUTY TO UPHOLD NATO AND THE UN EITHER"
"JUST TRUST US, WE'RE BETTER THAN AMERICANS BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE PUBLIC SERVICES"
FUCK NO!!!!!!!!!!
FUCK AMERICA, FUCK EUROPE, FUCK BRITAIN, FUCK FRANCE, FUCK GERMANY, FUCK ITALY, FUCK SPAIN, FUCK FRANCE, FUCK GREECE, FUCK PORTUGAL, FUCK DENMARK, FUCK BELGIUM, JUST FUCK IT ALL
WE ARE HELPING AMERICANS, POLITICALLY WE ARE NO BETTER THAN AMERICANS, BY DECLARING WE NEED TO CHANGE LITTLE COMPARED TO AMERICANS IS MAKING US BECOME SO FUCKING COMPLACENT TO THE BIG PICTURE, THAT WHEN THE INEVITABLE HAPPENS
YOU WILL BE MORE DISAPPOINTED THAN AMERICA'S CLINTON VOTERS. WE ARE NOT OUT OF THE SHIT YET, DON'T YOU FUCKING UNDERSTAND???
BECAUSE THEIR EMPIRE? IS IT ACTUALLY BETTER OR WORSE THAN FRENCH AND BRITISH COLONIALISM?
FUCKING FACE IT!!! WE WERE AMERICANS LONG BEFORE WE FUCKING DECIDED WE WERE SO MUCH BETTER!!! IF WE DON'T WANT TO REPEAT HISTORY, THEN HOW ABOUT IF WE TAKE A GOOD HARD LOOK AT OURSELVES FIRST
The amount of antideutsch tier discussion here disgusts me.
Jeremiah Morgan
As long as we benefit from the foundation of Israel, the violence of the World Wars, and our treasures we keep from our Colonial Past that wasn't fully fucking fragmented even 40 years ago
We, have as much negative presence on our planet and it's people, as Americans
The closer we are to realizing how much of a negative presence Europe has had on the world, and our facilitation of Capitalism; the closer we will be to actually having a foothold on a discussion to become better than Americans
But until then, we of Europe will laugh at America while our populations vote in the same people to protect them and protect our enormous Capital, over and over again ad infinitum.
Ignoring our presence in global capital by blaming the Americans for everything will not get us very fucking far by ourselves
You’re sounding like a third worldist tbh. And i’m technically in the third world.
Elijah Price
These posts are the reason why Americans wont support leftist policies past social democracy. Shitposting about killing Americans and destroying the country does not help. Its a slap in the face to most us of leftist here who are trying to wake ppl up.
By your logic i should should hope that Russia conquers europe because the Europeans (esp. the French) killed and exploited Africans for about 100 years.
Jace Kelly
I'm not a third worldist by explaining how hypocritical we are as Europeans for criticizing America for being such an enormous wealthy hegemony. The apple doesn't fall far from the fucking tree now, does it?
I'm saying in order to progress we first need to not just stop supporting America, but actively start stripping away the porkies getting fat off their enormous Old Money of Colonial Conquest as well, we have banks getting fat off our old real estate even still
No, we are not better than Americans, ESPECIALLY since we benefit largely from their existence, and because our populations still vote for Neoliberalism
It is not third worldism, stop being allergic to the idea Europe is part of not "American Hegemony" but Capitalist Hegemony. Capital can hardly exist without the fat its gained from consuming weaker nations like a swarm of locusts, hardly any better than America
Jason Jenkins
...
Noah Wilson
Give it a good 50 years and they’ll warm up to social democracy.
See? They are not even fuckinf aware of the world outside of them. How the fuck should I fucking side with them.
Brayden Peterson
What is this analogy? Is this about Rosa? Because i’m pretty sure social democracy is bearable liberalism.
Ryder Williams
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
IF ANYTHING CHANGED WE WOULD PROBABLY START RETURNING TO OUR OLD COLONIAL ROOTS
By "Europe" I largely mean Western Europe, aside from Russia. But as it stands, many former Eastern Bloc nations are rampant reactionary POZ holes voting to further connect themselves with the Western World; and as it stands they are all largely occupied by NATO forces even without being NATO members themselves
As it stands, Europe, as it had once been, will be a capitalist hell hole as it was during the early 20th century.
Want to change the world, shoot go ahead. You won't start by just somehow wishing America away
If only it was that fucking easy
Pass, exterminate Europe and the US
I'm European you fucking idiot. You have less awareness than I
Announcing Karl Marx existing as an achievement to European class consciousness and disregarding our state in the past and in the present, is exactly why I have so little faith in us to get anything done without sucking from the teat of Neoliberalism and Reactionary bullshit
The fact is, thinking about Europe should leave you as frustrated as thinking about America right now
That should include Eastern Europe as well
Christian Wright
Only for the "desirables", yes, but fascists support a welfare state. Neoliberals don't, which makes them objectively worse than fascists.
Blake Williams
It makes me slightly less frustrated though
Debatable tbh. At least neoliberalism is self destructive and fucks with the ability of the government to enforce private property by cutting its income. Fascism just tends to commit genocide. But most governments right now are not fully neoliberal of course, only when it suits porky.
Jonathan Collins
LOL
THIS IS THE SHIT I'M TALKING ABOUT
YOU WOULD VOTE FOR A NATIONALIST SOONER THAN YOU WOULD TRY TO FACE THE INCONVENIENT TRUTHS OF OUR EXISTENCE AT THE MOMENT, IN EUROPE. WHAT YOU WANT ISN'T FREEDOM, IT'S CONVENIENCE
I'm calling you an idiotic fool who can't see the forest for the trees, hardly, you can't even see your own shit on your knees
Because similar to the other post, you are a sad sad fucking fool who will fall into the hands of Perceived Empire to try to forget your past actual empires
All you want is to feel good before you die rather than struggle for the collective good of further generations not to fall for Capitalism
Fascism? Still fucking Capitalism. Neoliberalism? Supportive of fascism and still fucking capitalism.
You want nothing of freedom for Europe, you want freedom from depression and worry
You do not deserve to be free from depression and worry
You seem upset, but France and Germany are on the chopping block too. So are Russia and China. Perhaps UK as well.
Grayson Scott
I'm upset because you don't fucking realize the actual structural problems of capitalism you think wishing away nations magically will solve everything
It won't, you naive stupid fucking fool
Your sympathy to fascism IS your sympathy to Neoliberalism and Capitalism
Your rhetoric, as empty as the future of Europe, dragged low by corporations it will always vote to protect
Cameron Thompson
Stop it all of you! I’m going to post Communists with great hats ITT now.
Pure ideology. Start taking "class war" seriously any time.
Sebastian Adams
Typical yankee sideshow antics.
Justin Bailey
YOU FUCKING NAIVE IDIOT
LITERALLY, IT FUCKING WON'T. YOU HAVE NO PLANS OTHER THAN WISHING NATIONS STOPPED EXISTING
MY POINT IS THAT EVEN IF YOU COULD, NOTHING WOULD CHANGE. BESIDES AS MUCH, WISHING THE TOOTH FAIRY COULD MAKE HISTORY, THE PAST, AND THE PRESENT (LET ALONE ENTIRE NATIONS), JUST STOPPED EXISTING
There’s shit tier antideutsche level discussion going on here. And it’s between “america is purely shit” and “the entire first world is purely shit” This is a screaming match, and basically two sides shitposting atm over whose Idpol is justified. I’m shitposting for the reason that this thread is now basically a giant shitpost (also I can’t delete post so I’m kinda hoping mods don’t ban)
Adrian Jones
I'm literally saying the world is so economically interconnected at this point, and still making fortune off past empire, that implying this all goes away more easily than it would have in the past is grossly naive; and hoping to just "wish" nations away is grossly naive and incompetent
The world is not the way it was in 1917, this will not start if Europe just magically snaps its fingers and stops working with America, and its voters stop working with America
We all need to realize just how naive we're being at the moment by wishing Europe as the patron saint of all Socialism anywhere. The opposite is very much true
Josiah Mitchell
Start explaining what praxis your theory leads to at any time.
Carter Thomas
As it stands all you've said is "Man Dad, I wish America wasn't here, if we just make sure America isn't here, everything will go swimingly"
That's naive. You don't know how naive you sound. Previously you said Fascism is better than Neoliberalism (at least impled it), as if they aren't linked at the bloody fucking hip.
You aren't taking into account how far Europeans will go to support Nationalism, support Neoliberalism, and support empty solutions that get us nowhere at their usual most radical usually (failing to see the structural problems that keep them from becoming independent). Usually they think Nationalism or Reactionary bullshit will free them from the grasp of Neoliberalism, and not just strengthen it
Europe is dangerously far right, and its left is dangerously naive. Its past, a Neoliberal POZ pit. It's future? The same.
There is much work to be done. And wishing things would be different, wishing nations went away, wishing this or that happened; I'm sorry but wishes get you fucking nowhere
Also, I am not "wishing" for anything. I am literally, unironically arguing for obliteration of USA by any means. It is the primary target.
Sasuga, twitter """leftist"""
Zachary Price
No I'm not suggesting you read theory, perhaps you have
I'm demanding you reread it
Something went wrong down the line that made you think wishing was praxis
Ian Morris
And user is rightfully saying that's naive and liberal, ignoring the giant amounts of wealth Europe collectively has from its long colonial history, and people who believe NATO and nationalism and austerity are the future. At your most radical, people in Europe aren't willing to become as class conscious as needed, and only willing to champion anti immigration. Europe is still a very liberal place. I don't even understand how you would disagree with anyone who says as much
Isaiah Ortiz
EU is secondary target.
Gabriel Foster
No one in this thread said if you kill the US everything goes right. What I'm saying it's just literally workers of the world unite except Americans. I didn't say that Europe is an ideal place right now, nor will be without america. What I'm saying is that americans are just not our allies. Europe must be fixes, America must be destroy
Europe must go through wave of revolution and class consciousness before we makes another Neoliberal mistake, we make those often. We make those real bad often. Don't think we have much room to stand on
tbh they are culturally so degenerated that the best you can hope for is them having some mutations after a good bunch of nuclear strikes which lead to them becoming something more resembling of a human
Austin Clark
Never said anything of the sort
See there you go. Strategy enters one ear, goes through your empty fucking skull cavity, and emerges covered in blood, puss, and wax out the other as a fucking wish.
All you ever do is wish for bloody world war and nukes, and yes it in fact, does make you a stupid naive liberal idiot.
Wyatt Peterson
People are forgetting that the most classcucked and imperialist social stratum, boomers, will all be dead in a couple decades.
