How do I convince my trans Facebook Marxist friend to stop with the unnecessary idpol. She makes fun of "poor ugly white people" pretty frequently, posts about "not wanting to hang out with straight people" etc etc, that kind of shit. I don't know how to bring this up without being accused and blacklisted
How do I convince my trans Facebook Marxist friend to stop with the unnecessary idpol...
Jeremiah Williams
Cameron Green
Tell him this.
Hudson Price
tell him to go fucking kill himself, and that he will never be a woman(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Aaron Watson
...
Isaiah Parker
tell them that politics, in particular marxist socialist politics, is about mass movements, and you're not going to get anywhere by insulting the "poor white ugly people" who would need to be a part of that mass movement. The reason marx made workers the center of this political analysis is because they are both central to the reproduction of capitalism and those being exploited by it.
Jason Gray
I often see a lot of "no comrade of mine" "you're part of the problem" rhetoric when this is brought up in response to these idpol types, particularly on twitter. Honestly I think these people are not particularly interested in building socialism. They will perhaps make decent boots when a mass movement gets going but because of these divisive, vampire castle demands for penitence they can't be anywhere near an organizing position.
I do think anyone trying to convince a friend (rando idpolers will see any critique as an attack) would do best with this however. Marx didn't identify workers as the catalyst because they were oppressed, or deserve it, not necessarily. It's because the workers are the engine of capitalism. Necessarily, the revolutionary proletariat is going to include mostly straight white dudes. If that actually bothers someone then chances are it's not really about worker's liberation.
Caleb Bell
gulag
Juan Morales
Sometimes I doubt even this. If someone saying a mean word or not explicitly catering to some essentialized quality yourself is all it takes to throw you off, then how will any of these people be able to carry out or even survive in a revolution? How will they even survive in socialism?
Jason Bell
*about yourself
Thomas Jones
Marxism is about the struggle of classes, of the interests of labor opposed to the interests of capital. While the immediate appearance of this struggle is that of immediate economic demands, the only way for labor to truly realize its interests is too look beyond the system of capital, capitalism, towards socialism, that is to say, that for the social interests of the working class to be realized it would have to look beyond its own immediate economic interests and view its struggle as a political struggle for the emancipation of the whole of society.
While the struggle for socialist liberation necessarily a political struggle subsuming not only the direct economic interests of the workers but also the political emancipation of all oppressed (which, I suppose, includes the queers), the only way to realize this universal emancipation is through the working class's struggle against capital. In order for the workers to advance their own interests, the whole (or at the very least its most advanced detachment) of the working class must be united, through a principled organization of revolutionaries, in opposition to capital. "Workers of the world unite."
Dismissiveness of the white working class or to, I suppose, potentially prejudiced heterosexual workers, means to sow divisiveness within the working class, and masks an elitist liberal bourgeois disdain for the working class in general. Those that complain about 'white trash' are almost as bad as those that talk of urban blacks as 'niggers'; both are a mask for disdain towards the working class.
This does not mean however, that racism or sexism should not be fought. Oh contraire, it is essential for any revolutionary movement in the West today to do so, for the struggle against capitalism must necessarily be a political struggle. However, as Marxists we are materialists. We understand that reactionary prejudices are the product of an objectively-existing materially-constituted system. To use an illustration - a black cop murdering a black teenager would still be an example of racist police violence because it is ultimately irrelevant the actual prejudices of the police officer in question; what matters is the system and its objective material conditions which these individual actions are constituted. It is through changing people's material conditions through workers' struggle that we can overcome people's problems.
I recommend Lenin's The Attitude of the Workers’ Party to Religion.
marxists.org
She's acting idealist
Cooper Bennett
I somewhat agree. I imagine most are probably petit bourgeois who in the end would be against any kind of revolution (because, culturally, they find workers disgusting and don't have any concrete, material reason to solidarize themselves with workers).
That isn't saying that they all will. I'm sure a few do have legitimate left-wing sympathies distorted by the framework of identity politics. Still, I doubt most have revolutionary potential.
Jayden Fisher
Doesn't seem like much of a friend if you can't bring any of that up. Get rid of them.
Lincoln Reyes
Jaxson Morgan
see
Gavin Brooks
There's no such thing as a "trans Marxist." Tell him to read Engels.
Oliver Roberts
Aaron Wood
Why did he get banned for this?
Jaxson Scott
because it's an autistic screeching idpolfest of a post?
Jaxson Walker
if he wants to edgy for the sake of edginess, he should go to Zig Forums. That ban was deserved
Oliver King
Edginess isn't bannable. Long as it doesn't deal with something that has reached baboonposter levels, speech policing is just preening.
Jaxon Kelly
Anti-trans shitposting
Oliver Hernandez
How is it idpol to state that a man may not become a woman?
Brody Bailey
All politics is identity politics. "Identity politics" should just be filtered to "politics".
Caleb Carter
Just tell her at the risk of being blacklisted, if you come off as aggressive enough they'll do it.
Wrong board.
Josiah Rodriguez
This idpol is "Marxism" to her. Eventually she will get bored of it and become another milquetoast liberal.
Ryan Gutierrez
...
Grayson Martinez
This really
Ryan Martin
OP didn't specify FTM or MTF.
Aiden Robinson
Behold the king of petty posts
Eli King
You don't Marxism without intersectionality isn't marxism, its fascism.(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Ryder Perry
Fuck off and die
Ian Thompson
Boil your head in piss
Brayden Morales
"no"
Matthew Davis
Mason Jenkins
Alexander Hall
It's not but telling someone to kill themselves followed immediately by a comment about them being trans would mean it's very easy to infer that perhaps that poster wouldn't have made that post if OP didn't mention them being a tranny.
Of course, you're not actually posting in good faith so I'm not sure why I'm replying, but have a free (you)
Ryder Bell
That is correct tho.
Dylan Anderson
Fuck off
Oliver Barnes
...
Hudson Richardson
...
Ryan Cook
Jason Rodriguez
Just go back to reddit
Benjamin Rivera
whoever made this article needs to go back to the democratic party
James Watson
Trans people are a result of capitalism and alienation and have never existed in socialist nations though.
Josiah Gomez
They won't. They likely barely even exist as a demographic and what little good they could provide to the movement is outweighed by the huge amount of bad they do to it. Mark my words: you will never EVER get the average worker to join you until you join the alt-right in their mocking of these clowns. And you would be very surprised how approachable the average worker is even in the deep south where you would assume Socialism would be impossible. Most people in America are actually fairly reasonable and can likely be convinced to support us if only you have rational discourse with them with occasional jokes, memes, and mocking of your enemies (in our case idpol fags and corporations, both of which the average worker fucking hates with a passion). You shit on idpol, and corporations, support the prots owning guns, and talk about how the divisiveness in America is from corporations using divide and conquer tactics and you will win the hearts of the average white male worker.
Cooper Sanders
Inciting others to suicide is a standard imageboard practice. Claiming that because it is immediately followed by an attack on transgender ontology suddenly renders it verboten means you're asserting that a specific class of person should be immune to that practice.
Michael Watson
Nice try, Zig Forums.
Landon Anderson
That's a lie and you know it. East Germany not only had trans people, but they were treated better than they were in West Germany.
Easton Barnes
...
Jonathan Brooks
We still have Cuba user
Levi Cox
When did I say that they should be immune at any point? Since you want to play the game of ignoring logical inferrences I never actually stated my position on whether or not said poster should be banned, I merely offered a reason why it was most likely banned
Brody Phillips
he*
Tyler Miller
Deserved bans
Ridiculous post but undeserved ban, user should have elaborated his position
inexplicable ban
Parker Watson
Fuck no. Idpol goes both ways
Jaxon Brooks
I don't see how is bannable. You could ask him to elaborate on it or define what he meant, "trans marxist" is a stupid term if that's what he is talking about or maybe he has a materialist view of gender or simply views Engel's views as incompatible with the idea of transgenderism.
Ryan Clark
At 3 minutes in this documentary from the DPRK they call Michael Kirby a "mentally and morally corrupt pervert who has been a gay for more than 40 years." Homosexuality and trans are something that exist under capitalism not under Socialism.
youtube.com
Jose Smith
You want your left idpol, but not your right idpol? Fuck off, cryptolib.
Parker Cox
Marxist truly means nothing any more.