Hey Zig Forums why aren’t you part of the Bogdanov Gang?
en.wikipedia.org
Alexander Bogdanov
Mason Ortiz
Ryan Flores
Jordan Walker
Any decent references or sources to the guy, I'm unfamiliar.
Liam Myers
that takes a real retard
Xavier Bennett
Sorry missed the link somehow. Red star sounds like a cool book :)
Grayson Hernandez
are they related?
Jonathan Barnes
One of the points of the quick rundown:
Red Star by Alexander Bogdanov takes place on Mars.
Sebastian Adams
No Borgrodad’s theory was mostly what the Frankfurst School said, before it was cool. He also was a Bolshevik Party member, but critized Lenin for building a cult of personality. They did agree on a lot. He also correctly predicted that the war economy of WW1 would effect the post-war political climate by boosting the popularity of Marixism, at the expense of liberalism and anarchism. He’s also know for Red Star.
Angel Anderson
Were he and Lenin playing 17D chess?
William Thompson
yes
Elijah Myers
This is why
Caleb Morales
==B O G G E D==>>2499833
Jaxon Rivera
lost me there, sorry
Jose Hall
...
Parker Green
Authoritarianism was one of the main reasons the USSR collapsed. We must learn from our mistakes, not let them be repeated.
Daniel Gonzalez
What the FUCK, comrade?
Mason Powell
Not sure wat he meant either
Carson Robinson
Victor Serge best dissident Bolshevik
Ian Miller
"anti-authoritarian" is just code word for liberal
if you are against enforcing the authority of the working class you are an enemy of the people
classic bourgeois subversion at work
Angel Reed
What part of dictatorship of the proletariat don't you understand?
Christopher Jenkins
Luis Smith
no, you don't understand ☭TANKIE☭!
dictatorship is bad and we need to be democratic, the standards for this are set by capitalism and communism always goes lower! we need to do better and stop oppressing the capitalists and their beneficiaries, how else do you want to appeal to the workers?
ugh, you mustache posters! you don't understand anything -.-!
Nathaniel Hernandez
this
stalin was a good communist, his negatives a product of the counter-revolution, and he did what needed to be done, liberal moralizing be damned, just as a good communist should. the correct position at the time was held by stalin.
just look what happend after his death.
Brody Cruz
authority is bad and completely un-marxist!
there is no way that a marxist would ever write anything in defence of "authority", are you out of your mind? typical ☭TANKIE☭ revisionist! fucking MLs! stupid! stupid! so stupid!
Adrian Young
For somebody who loves to accuse others of being liberals, thats a lib tier understanding of the dictatorship of the proletariat. DotP is the self governance of the entire working class as a whole, which necessarily means democracy, and democracy necessitates freedom of political conscience, freedom of the press, etc.
Fuck off. Nobody is saying that we should be nice to porky or that counter revolutionaries shouldnt be persecuted. However thats different from creating a system where the average worker has next to zero political power or freedoms and its totally subject to a bureaucratic party elite. Anti authoritarian socialism, in the sense of a socialist state where people can speak as they want and actually wield power via free and open democracy, is the only possible socialist society. Anything else is not the dictatorship of the proletariat, but the dictatorship of the politicians and bureaucrats.
Easton James
yes, that's totally different to
it's something entirely else! how dare this fucking ☭TANKIE☭ is false flagging and pretending that we are liberals?? oh my gosh! that's so low, like, can you even believe it? ugh!
Camden Baker
Are you implying that calling for the workers to have political power over themselves makes me a liberal?
Jackson Allen
Ian Adams
What slander?
Nicholas Bailey
Does anyone really believe that the USSR was democratic? They had one canidate chosen by random groups of workers that could have very very easily been manipulated by the party. Not that it wasn't a better society than capitalism but it clearly wasn't a democracy.
Christopher Bell
i'm wondering the same thing
he can't possibly mean anything said about authoritarians being undemocratic and against what we described as DotP while leaving out all aspects of class character in doing so
of course socialism so far has always been exactly what capitalist propaganda said it was like, a terrible undemocratic shithole with oppression of the workers
how is this anticommunist slander? seriously??
Liam Allen
yeah, like wtf
workers picking candidates, how is this supposed to be democratic? of course the party was behind it all
why don't these commies see that they only end up making everything worse!
liberal democracy will pick TRUE workers only, we have to stop suppressing capitalists trying to sabotage and destroy socialism, that's just fucking stalinist propaganda
Josiah Lewis
Are you saying that the USSR was a genuine democracy, or that anybody who was subject to repression there was a counter-revolutionary? If you unironically think that then you are a brainlet. Saying that the USSR was an undemocratic society isnt slander, its the truth. Does this make it an Orwellian hellhole where everybody waited in line for the gulag? Of course not, but we cant let countering exagerations veer into the realm of delusion of the actual flaws that existed in 20th century socialism.
TLDR: learn what nuance is.
Jaxson Stewart
There is literally no such thing as a "democratic society." You might as well be arguing about "true communism" or whatever. It's pure idealism.
Brandon Davis
Juan Nelson
No it was litterally like one room full of workers from a co-op or a collective farm of something like that. I can't find any information on how the workers we selected, which seems suspicious.
Anthony Carter
Chase Walker
The communist party selected canidates. They normally did this by selecting certain groups of workers and having them choose a canidate. Then you could only vote for that once canidate and if they lost the communist party just ellected another. Seems rigged to me but I haven't read that much about it.
Elijah Perez
If you genuinely believe that then why bother struggling for socialism? How is being governed by corporate porkies worse than being governed by party porkies?
Henry Perez
The part I'm a bit wary of is having the CPSU currently in power decide who gets to ellect the next canidate. Seems like by picking with a bias they could get whoever they wanted ellected. You just have to trust that they don't.
Charles Johnson
All society is a dictatorship of one class.
Kevin Reed
Jeremiah Barnes
Nice non answer. I'm not disputing the need for the repression of the bourgeoisie by the workers, I'm arguing that a state can only claim to be a worker's state if it is governed by the working class as a whole, which means democracy.
So are you saying that the ban on factions and outlawing of all parties save the CPSU didnt exist?
Nicholas Clark
No. Does that make it undemocratic?
Andrew Parker
James Watson
How is it democratic if the CPSU selects the people who select the canidates? This means they can basically pick who gets nominated.
Dylan Scott
A one party state is not necessarily undemocratic, but if that party is dominated by its leadership, punishes dissent, and provides only limited opportunities for discussion, debate, and criticism of policies, then yes, it is undemocratic.
Jose Cruz
Source? The USSR had plently of worker criticism.
Austin Ward
Ryan Garcia
Let them criticize so long as they obey, as Frederick the Great said. I'm talking about translating that criticism into actual political power via democratic institutions, something that was effectively impossible considering that too much criticism of the party line would get you accused of factionalism, and a meaningful political career was essentially impossible if you werent a party member. The anti-stalin opposition of the 1920s was purged based on the faction ban.
Oliver Taylor
He wasn't actually anti-Lenin tho. Just disagreed on a few important philosophical points.