I've been noticing a lot of anti-semetic posts,much more than usual. It's mostly from mustache and tank posters, and I'm not sure how much is falseflag from Zig Forums and how much is a cancer growing within us.
Now, I'm not just referring to being anti isreal, which I think should be a pretty common sense position. I'm talking about blaming imperialism in the middle east on a "love for jews", of dismissing leftist figures they dislike for being jews, and for attacking people's credibility on account that they are a jew or look like one.
Now, obviously we shouldn't let someone being jewish stop us from critiquing them, or even despising them. Nor should we tolerate zionism and jewish reactionaries. But if you're attack is simply, they are jewish or they like jews, that is completely reactionary.
Neither do most of these sentiments come off as jokes.
I would urge all comrades to report this sort of behavior, as trying to push racism hidden behind pro worker rhetoric is blatantly against the rules. If they want to be anti semetic, they should stop false flagging and reveal themselves for the reactionaries they are so we can address them honestly.
I can confirm that Zig Forumsacks love to falseflag as tanks when shilling anti-semitism. I'm not making this up, it's what they actually do. My only concern with Zig Forums's tanks is how some of them embrace revisionist/right-deviationist ML (CCP apologists) but there is no actual anti-semitism among our tanks.
Justin Miller
why are non zionist jews so rare? maybe its because i live in north america, but seriously every jew i know that questions the state of israel gets attacked by their tribe, its kinda sad
There is this new lenin posters who shills hard for xi and deng. I Don't know ho the fuck can he be so delusional.
Sebastian Martin
Its pretty obvious that one or two of the somewhat more cerebrally gifted Zig Forumsacks have after a few months caught on that posts made with a stalinstache or tank are moderated more leniently and begun shitty attempts to falseflag. It stands out like a sore thumb, especially given how unprecedented it is. We've always had a consistent inflow of Zig Forums converts still clinging on to some vestiges of schizophrenia as strassérshits and the like but nothing like this. Note: just a few weeks before 'subtly' anti-semitic tank posting begun there was a number of schizoid Zig Forumsyps accusing everyone of zionism, food for thought. I doubt it'll last long though.
OP's right, actually. However, there's been a very obvious surge in the amount of polyps posting recently, so i dont know wether its something to be too worried about.
Zachary Bennett
Emotional attachment to what Israel is supposed to represent: self-determination for Jews after centuries of oppression. Except Jews before the Holocaust were overwhelmingly indifferent towards Zionism — if not outright hostile, especially if they were socialist. Zionism was pretty much confined to bourgeois nationalists and unironic fascists before it became a significant political force among Jews following WWII.
It's just Zig Forumsyps LARPING as tanks without putting the nazbol flag on.
William Martinez
the NazBol flag is gone.
Nathaniel Richardson
I've even read that this is also misunderstood. Even a lot of American Jews were tepid about Israel and the Holocaust post-war. A Holocaust survivor just as likely ended up in America rather than going to Israel because Israel was poor as fuck at the time and America had great prospects. The turning point came with the 1968 War as well as the Civil Right's Revolution which made Holocaust remembrance more acceptable. Before that time, Holocaust remembrance and discussion was mute because most American Jews hadn't suffered and the victims didn't want to talk about it. After the 60s they it became acceptable to talk about one's experience, but ironically American Jews came to make the Holocaust a strong part of their identity even though close to none suffered and few had contacts in Eastern Europe after immigrating to America. While I'm not saying that it's unfair for American Jews to embrace the Holocaust, to embrace it is to adopt solidarity with communities from which they had severed ties long before. They shared Eastern European Jewish customs, but they weren't subject to it. This is made all the more baffling when you consider that a large percentage of Jews in 1930s America were against admitting European Jewish refugees escaping persecution.
James Morris
Like, half our board is Zig Forums shitpost anchored threads. We lost about 100 people from the Zig Forums Zig Forums split.
I have tried to post more and bump real threads but its a lot of work. Every day we get raided.
Not fully related, but has there always been the people who Try to prove that being trans is just bourgeoisie propaganda or other such mental gymnastics to use workers rights too justify them being uncomfortable around gay people?
I haven't been here for long, but it would almost seem like there should be a general just for telling people to get over themselves, gay's and traps have been around since the dawn of civilization, and have it be banned in other threads.
This is true — especially the bit about the Holocaust being taboo during the early post-war era. That was partially motivated by the American government's unwillingness to insist on the Holocaust too much when they wanted Germany to become a powerful ally.
This is the result of users influxes caused by shifts in ephemeral political allegiances. GamerGate and peripheral phenomenons introduced a lot of mostly young people to politics, and right-wingers seized that opportunity to inject their talking points into a wider crowd. When that movement lost steam and started dying out, former supporters settled all over the place on the Internet. Some of them found Zig Forums's anti-idpol stance appealing, so they came and brought with them the reactionary baggage that they had amassed as GamerGaters or the like. This is the reason why "criticism of idpol" went from opposing identity-based politics as class-collaborationist to saying shit like trannies are bourgeois.
Michael Martinez
Be aware that Zig Forums is a target of subversion and disruption psyops, and take that fact into consideration when reading it.
I can already hear the brainlets smacking their keyboards in frustration. "No one cares about Zig Forums, this board is too small, Senegalese smoke signal community, why would anyone bother, etc." Despite its small population, Zig Forums is an influential community in the internet Left. What's more, it being small makes it an even bigger target, being more susceptible to influence itself, and incentivizes killing it before it becomes any bigger.
Keep that in mind when you see posters calling for BO to be ousted or replaced
Justin Gomez
Defending the CCP is a legitimate, if slightly dubious position. It's too early to tell if and how mistaken they are, especially now that Xi is supposedly gradually rolling back some of the opening-up.
It really should be brought back, it's a great way for these kinds of people to out themselves.
I don't think those people are trolls. Some people simply are still really spooked about the gays, but perfectly leftist otherwise. We shouldn't forget how recent the turn towards acceptance wrt homosexuals etc. in society at large is.
what this boils down to is people not grasping what identity politics is and that it goes both ways, bourgeois liberal and reactionary
some retards think since we don't believe in language policing and promoting identity groups with special consideration that attacking these people is somehow not idpol they confuse putting class first with attacking identities because they're not classes
there should be a way more prominent and highlighted place for a comprehensive definition of identity politics and why socialists must oppose it, covering our opposition from liberal and reactionary bourgeois identity politics
Dylan Foster
no idea what exactly you mean by "lgbt agenda" there's nothing wrong with "lgbt" people standing up for themself, when adressed from a class perspective they should very much be open to demand simple respect and emancipation as equals into the class movement, that's just a given, so of course they can very much be part of a leftist movement and even cover their own self interest within it
the problem arises when they reject the class confrontation and shill for bourgeois faggots, identifying with them over their identity group and don't stand for their class as the primary conflict is the class antagonism that fuels identity conflicts to begin with
Jordan Wood
No one actually hates jews(the race), you silly. It's just funny to post offensive stuff about them while also aknowledging how the jewish bourgeoisie is a thing.
Michael Ortiz
Didn't your mom tell you to do some research before spouting rightist propaganda?
Jace Ramirez
Engels in a June 22, 1869 letter to Marx, in Volume 43 of their Collected Works, pp. 295-296:
Between Engels and Marx, Engels was the superior shitposter imo
Lucas Peterson
I have read this letter, but it doens't say anything about "product of capitalism"
Landon Torres
Marx also made antisemitic comment in the Jewish Question. Should we endorse them just because Marx said it?
Noah Torres
This but unironically. The droits du cul should be enshrined into the Constitution.
Gavin Adams
"On the Jewish Question" was an ironic critique of capitalism, only an autist would take it as actual antisemitism.
Logan Perez
This. I think the main reason the LGBT movement drifted away from its radical working-class roots was the changing sociological composition of its membership: as gay activism became increasingly mainstream and socially accepted, the old guard of destitute marginals in revolt against capitalist conformity was gradually replaced with well-off careerists seeking inclusion in bourgeois society. If you had told a gay or lesbian radical in the '60s that their movement would end up supporting gay marriage of all things, they would have called you a reactionary traitor.
Nah mate, Marx occasionally used antisemitic tropes in his work (which was common at the time) even outside his Jewish Question. It certainly wasn't formative of his worldview like say Heidegger's but he was definitely prejudiced towards Jews as a group.
Christopher Reyes
Engels' comments were in a letter to Marx regarding Karl Ulrich's 'Incubus' which was primarily a documentation of every news article concerning cases of homosexuality, primarily from germany. Ulrich documented cases where gay men were caught in the act by the authorities and their court cases as well as prominent cases where abuse was treated leniently such as priests systemically abusing schoolboys and more or less getting away with it. He mostly intended to shine a light on the publicly unacknowledged subject as part of his campaign which aimed to recognise male homosexuals as a third sex and bring to light abuse which was being ignored. Engels didn't think much of it and described it as 'turning smut into theory' which isn't surprising since it details outrageously lewd things like boyfriends covertly holding hands in gardens and the like. He then being the shitposter he was wrote to marx how the homos will take over and force them to give up pussy. make of that what you will. Apart from this incident, itself unrelated to marxism, there is nothing in marx or engels' work which indicates any position on something as irrelevant as homosexuality.
Seriously though it baffles my mind how conservatives on the left and right alike keep bringing up this literal shitpost as an example of Engels' "theories" on gays
Thomas Peterson
He was prejudiced against the religious expression of Jews because his family came from a long line of rabbis.
Jaxson Lee
Zig Forums mutants have always loved leftism because it allowed them to shit on the evil jews. They just didn't like the social liberation aspects.
Gee, I wonder why they're trying to downplay all those social liberation aspects in favor of what is essential nazbolism? I wonder why that is, precisely?
Isaiah Myers
Just remember that we can make this go both ways, Asserists are better than fucking lolberts
Noah Harris
They're both cancerous scum that think you can cherry pick one half of the movement while shitting all over the other and expect to attract people despite this (seriously?)
I don't get why you don't just go for right-wingers. They're a hell of a lot easier to seduce.
Hudson Bell
I agree, however, I contest that far rightists are easier to get into the movement, I've never experienced nor seen this happen.
Asher Johnson
OP here, I was one of the original ppl who came to Zig Forums during gamergate, these don't feel like the same ppl. If I had to guess, these new posters are the types that got into Zig Forums during the 2016 election
Austin Collins
I think he is referring to me
I'am happy that more Comrades here support the PRC! Why would you need to worry about it?
I don't think that the opening up from Deng, furthered by Xiang Zemin was a bad thing, it was a necessary step to develop the productive forces so China can meet the needs of the people. China never gave up their State monopoly and the DoTP. But Xi of course is doing good work. Especially furthering Marxism-Leninism in the Party and Universities.
Juan Nelson
The whole purpose of the LGBT movement was to steer the left away from class struggle. It was not to get faggots to support the class struggle
Leo Lewis
I'am Jewish. My Mother and Grandmother are very pro Israel because it is the Jewish State of course. My Grandma hid in Nazi Germany and moved always around so the nazis couldn'T catch her. So when the State Israel was create she was very happy to have a state that is a safe place for the Jewish people after hundreds of Years of oppression. Of course this State is a Settler State and its Imperialist af but it depends on the kind of Jew your asking. Socialists hate it and liberals andore it.
Met a black jew from california a few years back who was explicitly anti-israel or in his words: I guess it was because it was at the time of the 2014 gaza offensive and we met in south america, so anti-israeli sentiment was somewhat commonplace. Still a fun conversation.
Marx even said it himself, "all that is solid melts into air"
Hudson Lopez
Marx, in that very same communist manifesto, also disparaged the reactionaries trying to cling to the old ways. Communists are here to take up the mantel of the future, to establish a new society.
Mason Morgan
That's not true. See: That's an antisemitic statement and no amount of mental gymnastics will make it not so.
Bentley Reyes
One of the most grating aspects of Zig Forums is how you have to turn every fucking historical failure of the left into a nefarious plot of alphabet soup agencies. This is Zig Forums-tier and a mockery of materialism. Stop.
Jordan Bailey
It's anti-Jewish (culture) but not antisemitic (racial), unless you believe that Marx was writing about himself.
Ayden Thomas
Noam Chomsky said that he supported a Jewish homeland but not a Jewish state, the idea being that you can have a safe haven for a particular group without requiring the violence and ugliness of statecraft. I have never seen any practical examples of how this is supposed to work, though.
Samuel Cook
This is the very same argument advanced by the more polite ethno-nationalists in Europe: "We don't hate Arabs or Muslims as an inferior race, we merely want to protect ourselves from their incompatible culture taking over!" Criticism of a given culture ceases to be merely that when all individuals associated with that given culture are attributed an inescapable, essentialized behavior. Antisemitism needs not be racial, though it often is; it is first and foremost a worldview based on the omnipotent power ascribed to Jews and its relationship with modernity itself. Marx to the best of my knowledge never engaged in that, which makes sense considering it's completely incompatible with materialism.
Michael Brown
This user got it mostly right, but it is less how the "homos" will take over, and more of a play on the idea that the establishment is systematically "raping the youth" via legislation… and how that was in fact literal. 'Incubus' showed a shit ton of documented instances where relatively high level pedophiles raped and abused minors, so it wouldn't have painted a pretty picture of homosexuality as a general phenomena (but provided Engels basis for shitposting); including Schweitzer boiled down to him calling the succ dems sellouts with the elites. Overall it's bantz, though Engels is clearly a shithead. Marx himself doesn't stoop to the level, and even gets fed up with an autist interpreting Schweitzer jokingly saying that he "would not work with Bismark as it would mean working with a shriveled hag." as "Schweitzer said he would work with Bismark if it wasn't for the fact that he'd be forced to work with that shriveled hag."
Schweitzer is a massive faggot though, because this is the lady in question: Sophie von Hatzfeldt. I'll admit the only reason I am adding this part is because I am gay for her.
