Lemmie see if I understand…
To destroy the state and the class system, I have to empower a state with unlimited power and ownership of everything and the group chosen to run the omnipotent state that owns everything with a dictatorship?
And then after there will be no class system and the power of the group with unlimited state power and ownership will wither away?
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No. No. No.
The Dictatorship of The Proletariat is the proletariat class excercizing it's will over the bourgeois class. This is a consistently democratic feature, outside of a few "noble leader" types that typically jumpstart things. Think of Lenin before the USSR was really established. The USSR is a great example of proletarian democracy.
Nothing here is omnipotent, rights and personal property were and are 100% features of Scoialist societies. But yeah, the state will wither away. Once the proletariat have gotten rid of the bourgeois, there will no longer be bourgeois to oppress. Thusly, no more class antagonisms, no more state in the Marxist sense. There will still be a gubbermint.
I don't think you could possibly understand how incredibly amazing it is that people can so consistently understand do little about Communism.
Probably just Zig Forums echochambering itself,but that's a little conspiratory
How can a bourgeois class exist under a government in which it does not own anything or have power?
I agree, I don't understand.
The role of the DotP is the expropriation of all bourgeois property, that is as long as there are capitalists/landlords, etc. the DotP has a role in expropriating them and suppressing any attempt by the old ruling classes to return to power/hold on to their property. This means the DotP as a Workers' state must systematically eliminate all bourgeois states to the point at which the bourgeois class is eliminated in its entirety. At that point the DotP ceases to be as classes no longer exist and society is gradually reorganised on a communal basis.
That's the point. It doesn't.
But the state is an ethereal abstract idea that doesn't really exist either. As long as an individual can be given authority by any class, then what's the difference?
By default you will have a class of owners/adminstators or whatever semantics you choose. It seems like the same reason ancaps are so retarded.
I recommend watching this Chinese film regarding the Cultural Revolution. It answers your exact concerns with clarity and simplicity:
The state is the tool of one class to oppress the other. It most definitely exists. The army and police act as tools by the bourgeoisie to keep the proles down, thus they are the state.
There won't be class in a marxist sense. Administrators are not a class.
wdhmbt???
the state is very real and not ethereal or abstract at all
this too is incoherent
the notion of 'default' seems gratuitous and sets of alarm bells straight away, besides I don't see how the abolition of private property can mean the creation of a class of owners of private property.
Administration does not imply ownership either.
An administrator is not the same as an owner. Administrators/bureaucrats didn't "rule" the USSR - classes are about more than just pay grade or job title, it is about wealth extraction. Pencil pushers in the USSR weren't making money from interest they were making money by doing their job, like everyone else. And if you look at "Is the Red Flag Flying", farm workers and factory workers actually had higher salary growth than administrators. People sitting behind desks planning things is more an aspect of technology than domination.
read Lenin faggot
This
Why? Late stage capitalism was 100 years ago
Late Capitalism was published in 1972 tho
Basically yeah. Good summary OP.
Could've fooled me.
As other anons explained the DOTP is the suppression of bourgeois class by the proletariat. The aim is to abolish class antagonisms by eliminating the capitalist class by depriving them of the means of production and as a result the proletariat class will also be abolished as they can not exist without the capitalist. The state will no longer be of any use, as its purpose is to have one class exercise its will over another, and eventually it will wither away.
The DOTP can be understood as an inversion of present society. It is currently a DOTB(Dictatorship of the Bourgeois) where the bourgeois exercises it will over the proletariat class.
What's to keep another class from establishing itself?
I mean, I know me and a few others who could totally be able to set up a new drug cartel ala Mexico style, and absolutely no "workers party" would be able to stop us.
Nothing commies advocate would be "and end of classes" as any reasonable person understands them, until we've reached such a post-scarcity situation that communism itself is still fucking retarded.
As i said by suppression of that class.
Yes they would
By who, exactly?
Literally the second I say "Hey dude, let's beat the hell out of that dumb commie and take his shit", I've already won; it's exactly the same thing communists advocate, but don't believe in a state to defend their property (or, hell, even property in general).
The whole point of the DOTP is to seize the state for the proletariat and to suppress people like you.
not private property
It can't continue to exist, if the proletariat do their jobs right. It's just to remove private property, because, contrary to the mystics of Zig Forums, you can't just snap your fingers and have a utopia. The USSR slowly socializing agriculture is a great example of DOTP. There are also the bourgeois of other countries to contend with.
You realize that your government, and thusly your judicial system, is just a tool for the bourgeois? It's just a place for fat cats to steal, and them dumbasses like you accept it as law because it is law.
I hate you for this, but Communism isn't taking away everything you own. Just the things other people work that you own. You have no hope here; you don't know what you're talking about, go away.
>famines only happen when you don't collectivise enough actually unironically what happened
You're welcome for your history lesson, now go away.
stay and read some more, friend
lmao
DotP is supposed to just be during the transition, the process of destroying private property by taking things for the public (the state). The state is supposed to wither away once it's no longer necessary since (in theory) the proles have control of the state.
The problem arises when the proles don't have control over the state. And this always happens with every state. In order to preserve its own power it must secure for itself the power to suppress the people. It happened in the USSR with Kronstadt etc. It happened in the US with Shay's Rebellion. Every state will get tested at some point by people who disagree with what it's doing, and it will either assert itself or perish. And once this power is entrenched it becomes an attractor for people who want to keep power and also corrupts the people who already have power.
MLs often take this criticism of their praxis as some bleeding heart "but what about muh free speech for fascists" but it's just a logistical concern regarding the exercise of power. If you can't suppress your people then you're not functionally a state, and you can't suppress the bourgeoisie with state power. As soon as socialism becomes statist it's doomed to deform from a "workers' state" back to capitalism. It might accomplish some good things along the way (and is certainly better than just regular capitalism) but it cannot bring us to communism.
Stopped reading there. It was good up until this point, but democracy died in the USSR in 1921.
Oh yeah, you guys are really making me think. Post your shining examples of democracy. Pro tip, you can't, outside of maybe North Korea or Cuba. Or, or, stop believing propaganda. The USSR transformed a monarchy into the best nation to ever exist, complete with developing (real!) democracy and more actual rights than any other country. Feel free to disagree.
Stupid, stupid lib.
Ask yourself how le market god handles scarcity. If you're honest, you'd understand the market does a godawful job at managing scarcity and leads to regular stupidities that could easily have been avoided, in addition to hilarious fun with speculation and stock buybacks. But hey, water- and land-guzzling golf courses for the bourgs! What a fucking system worth defending with half-assed arguments and shitposting!
funny how none of the liberal retards respond to posts like this, really makes you think
Is everyone just unironically retarded on this board now?
This is what marxist leninist are/were trying to do but its not the only form of socialist thought.
Not the only, yeah, but the only one thay actually works and have well-established theory.
Also sources
retard