Is God legitimate or is religion just an attempt at rationalizing forces that can't be controlled by individuals in...

Religicide

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How do you implement a successful religicide? Religious fundamentalists are numerous, and in the case of the US, well armed.

Nuclear, chemical, biological weapons. Take your pick.

Surely it's being used as a tool by the bourgeoisie, but religion itself isn't just a product of the ruling classes, and I am fairly sure it will exist under socialism. There's also no problem in the existence of religion if it's not abused by a ruling class, much like the way industry is used in capitalism doesn't make industry a priori bad. People will never be 100% "rational" beings who function merely in terms of rational/mechanic thinking. The state should be secular and not interfere in individual religious matters. Even if you fully accept the marxian analysis of religion as a tool of the ruling classes (which I don't), the same analysis would also imply that the material circumstances have to be changed, not directly religion itself; so even if you accept this analysis it doesn't make a lot of sense to "fight religion".
The question "is God legitimate" is kind of silly, I don't think faith is about legitimatization in the first place. Leave people the personal liberty to decide what they want to believe.
t. atheist

But seriously, religion is barely a point of consideration as far as politics goes, unless someone is going to whine about abortion laws in the US abortion is immoral, religion or not.
Going after religion as "a tool of the bourgeoisie" is just an edgy stance and really does nothing. Also, I find the view of religion as "explanation for things cavemen didn't know" as taking one small piece of truth too far.

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This is okay, maybe not totally correct but I give my support.

God is history. It exists but only in the past (for most people at least.)
Most religions were an extremely important element of feudalism, which is why ML states usually promote state atheism as a way to keep society from sliding back into it. Religion is not nearly as important to capitalists as it was to the feudal monarchs though. It's just not profitable.

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Religion evolves out of natural human tendencies towards spiritual feelings (Freud called this "the Oceanic Feeling") which likely served some evolutionary purpose at some time. It's just later co-opted for the personal interests, not only of elites, but of literally everybody. Elites are just the best at using it because they typically have organized religious institutions on their side.

Is it?

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Legitimate how?
Like real? No.

American protestants are a cancerous anomaly. Also they are often so bizarrely non-mystical that their so-called "religion" barely counts amounts to anything other than cultish devotion to their pastor's allegedly literal interpretation of their bible. They are essentially jews in many respects.

God is legit and loves you, OP!

t. ChristCom Gang

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It also spreads in Africa, Eastern Europe.

Something can't come from nothing. Either the universe is eternal or it was created. Both scenarios invoke the supernatural and combining that with the prophets being able to make impossible amounts of scripture in short periods of time, full of such vast knowledge, in those time periods, by an illiterate person, I wonder how atheists are so quick to dismiss God and religion.

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it is far more illogical to imply lack of a creator then to imply there is one. The debate as i see it should be deism and our worship of this creator

Christians hold the modern belief that god reveals himself to us in deeply personal and meaningful ways, not always through the psychical world, but through out own spirit, If we search within ourselves long enough, we'll get to a point where there is an unexplainable nature behind us, no matter the decades we spend meditating about ourselves, we would never understand this single aspect. That aspect is god

Also Jesus would of been a BernieBro, as much as he express hatred of the rich for their exploitation, he straight up defends wage slavery in John 4:36

God is real, and that is the reason why sad retards like commies hate him; because they know they'll burn in hell forever after their pathetic failed virgin loser life on earth is over.

But user, being a virgin is pious, you lecherous slut.

religion is a false science

how could someone mistake ones own ego for a god?

Deism =/= Theism. You can believe in the existence of a creating god or first cause without believing that they are actively intervening in the universe or care about what you do. The question of God's existence or legitimacy is separate from the question of religion.
The question of god's existence is mostly a philosophical one, and it's pretty irrelevant for us. What is relevant is the role of religion in society, which Marx described as an "opiate of the masses". It is not only a way to dull the pain of existence - it is easier to cope with suffering if you believe it will lead to an ultimate reward - but also as a means of expressing and channelling one's frustrations with society - for example, liberation theology and religious peasant revolts. It also functions as a lever for social control, which is exploited by religious institutions. Religion, like all parts of society, follows the waves and motions of that society, and whatever the social system is religion will always find its place in it, changing or adapting its structure and canon as necessary. I doubt religion will go away any time soon, not so long as there is a need for it, but the same can't be said for its institutions, and they will either have to adapt or die.

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Fun fact: Einstein opposed big bang theory because he thought it was too religious, despite the fact his discovery of the ever expanding universe (which facilitates a creation at some point).

False assumption.
Christianity is a joke.

How early of an abortion are we talking? 2 months?

No, and even if he were he'd still be hanged.

No gods, no masters.

How can the universe create itself?

It doesn't need to create itself if it had already existed.

So the universe doesn't have a beginning? It has just always been? But how do you explain the expansion of the universe? Clearly that expansion must have started somewhere.

God is real!!

I have always been disappointed in how accepting Zig Forums is of christcoms.

The expansion started at the big bang. And at some point it will reverse and go back to compress to that small area.
Then we will have another big bang and another universe.

Let's not start using such strong words. Diet Nazbols Pearl-clutching Religion are simply not offensive enough, unlike Nazbols Original Flavour, to get banned on sight.

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Well, duh, that's high school shit, but how does that explain how the process began in the first place? You can keep explaining how the expansion was caused by big bang, which was caused by the contraction by another universe, which was created by the contraction of yet another universe, and so on ad infinitum, but at some point there must have been something to create this motion in the first place, and all the matter which is expanding and contracting, since you can't have an infinite chain of causes - either the chain has a beginning or it is a closed loop. Therefore, unless the universe is completely static, there must have been some self-created or outside force which created this motion in the first place, a first cause.

The only scientific reasoning would be to postpone the answer until we understand things better. We barely understand shit about the universe, no need to just shove it aside and call it God. Come back when we know it is God.

Do you actually know what God is?

god isn't real lol

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As an animist, the Godhead serves primarily as a poetic symbol rather than a functional subject, we all have free will, we create reality through our collective choices, so with God already in us, we do not need servitude without calling itself narcissism.

The problem with most theistic religions is that it gives glory to the forces of nature rather than allowing for us to master them and attain our own divinity, waiting around for "God" to do stuff is suicide and a result of the apathetic revisionism of creationist Christianity. That's why Christians are crypto-nihilists, they do not equate value in ourselves with God, they have a dualistic relationship with creation. Heaven and earth, we are the worthless filth of existence and God is the only positive binary, in the contemporary Christian consensus. This consent of slavery to fate makes Christians vunlerable to earthly forces of manipulation, as we have seen.

You can see examples of animism in Ancient Greece, Rome and some primitive societies like in Africa if you are interested ;)

Wait, so we created the universe?

We are part of the universe, so all elements of it's creation are present within us, I doubt that we made any conscious decision to guide fate before the initial creation itself, I accept any confirmed science on issues such as cosmology, it seems that the universe came from a self-imposed singularity, so personifying ourselves as the universe could perhaps imply a self-creation through the necessity of the tools of creation itself, like expanding space-time to facilitate the evolution of intelligence for self-awareness to be suspended in the minds of a collective life force, like we have now, but that depends on your philosophy as to WHY life is, if you think that we were made to understand that we were made, then life has fulfilled it's purpose, I suppose.

Well yes, but that doesn't answer my question. Was the universe created it because we willed it into existence? Was it created in order to allow us to exist?

Well the universe's forces set in motion the creation of life and all of it's following consequences, some people call this an accident, but it is a very deliberate performance, since with the laws of physics, the conditions of primordial space-time could not necessitate any other type of world, like Einstein discovered, the universe is deterministic, it has been set in motion from the initial expansion, and so it will set once it is complete. People call this fate, or God's plan, the inevatibility of life as a result of the universe.

So, the universe as we understand it could NOT exist without us, and such without it, we could not be, we are symbiotic to the universe itself, inseperable from it's conditions. Basically, if you were God and you wanted to create life as it is now, there are no better conditions than what were given to create us. People call this the "finetuning" argument.

You choose how you want to see the world, if you want to see us as individual, hand-crafted creations of God, you can do that, or you could even reject that idea, but the physical realm of space-time keeps us anchorded to the emergence of primordial forces like the weak and strong forces, gravity and electromagnetism, these are the 4 truths that science has given us. Take the truth, and do with it what you want, but truth is inescapable. If you are asking for me to analyse the mind of God and to answer your questions directly, I'm afraid that nobody could do that.

Life itself could not exist without the conditions for consciousness being set up, if you want some quantum woo stuff, then check out "Biocentrism" by Robert Lanza, it basically makes the assertion that the universe did not have physical form before consciousness retroactively created itself around 4 billion years ago, so life is the ONLY reason anything else exists.

literally read a book

isn't it easier to accept it's all a horrible accident

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Without the belief in something higher than oneself, without belief in something more important that lives on even after one dies, how can you justify self-sacrifice and altruism? How can the peasants sacrifice themselves starting a revolution if they do not believe in something greater than themselves that will live on?

What is the difference between this something that justifies one's self-sacrifice and the one of religion? In which ways is this one more real or meaningful?

The idea that religion only exists to be exploited - the same could be said about any political system ever. The powerful will always bend whatever the people believe in to their will.

You don't, no one does, these are natural human tendencies.

Read Zizek ontology, Less than nothing, Incontinence of the void or Zupancic What is Sex.

lol

It's turtles all the way down.

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i worship le flying spaghetti monster xD

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Why do religiousfags get so asshurt about doubting their invisible man? Even over on /christain/ asking them some basic questions, not even about epistemology, but on basic biblical questions (like how the trinity works) will throw them into an autistic rage. If you can't prove something within a shadow of a doubt I'm not wasting hundreds of hours of my limited life worshiping something.

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cause and effect dictates that there must be a god, that god or creator being the original cause

Zig Forums has spoken: God isn't real

Can we agree that free will is a spook too? It's mainly used as an explanation for why some souls go to heaven and why some go to hell (free will is a property of the soul). If you don't believe in afterlives or souls, there is absolutely no reason to believe in free will….

Free will is indeed a spook, things only happen because god wills it.

daily reminder to never take an anarchist's opinion into consideration

There will always be things we will never know.
I don't think worshipping a random book is the right answer to that.

Free will is a moralist spook.

The universe DOES just exist without a reason. Reason implies intent, and since the universe has no creator, there's no "reason" for it to exist.
We ARE programmed to follow a direct route. That's the only route we can follow: whatever the fuck your brain computes through electrical signs and chemical reactions.

free will does exist as a integral part of our existence after we become developed social beings, freedom of choice (or general autonomy) does not implicate freedom of consequence necessarily nor does it necessitate a lack of outside influence (genetics, society, what have you), in fact without these outside influences you would not have anything to choose from at all. true freedom is nothing but a empty void

i was about to type a response but then saw that you posted Christ-chan. haha tough luck pal

Their whole life view rests on God existing and the idea that he doesn't exist goes against their entire world view.

When i was religious as a kid. I used to do things that i thought god would like and would look up and smile. I remember that kind of mentality, that feeling like your being watched. That fear, that, if they dont cross it, it will condemn them to extreme pain for eternity. The bible is the greatest horror story ever made. Its like god is like some lovecraftian beast that tricked humanity into worshiping it and punishes those who deviate.

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I had a similar experience as a kid. My family convinced me that the end of the world was coming shortly and I used to cry at night because it could end at any time. Looking back on it now as someone that's not religious anymore, it horrifies me that religion can do things like that to people.

Your parents and family held values which they justified through religion, it was merely the catalyst they used to express themselves. They felt the end was near or that punishment awaited them/someone deserved it and so they took the thing which could justify their pathology. The idea that God wants you to burn for eternity if you aren't brought to force worship him or that you must live constantly in fear of him is pretty anti-exegesis anyway and follows a non-allegorical reading.

This, religion itself isn't the problem, but its (mis)use by people in power positions although I would feel like a douchebag saying it to the face of those anons you replied to. I'm btw.

...

What do you mean kill. Be careful with your words, saying kill all jews and muslims sounds pretty much racist as fuck even if you mask it by saying it's a religion and not a race, we all know what you mean. Calm down.

The fact that he brings beings into existence and burns them for forever for not following the rules is pretty fucked up. If i had the choice, i would opt out of existence in its universe.

Even an allegorical reading of the bible leads you to the conclusion that God is also "evil" since he created it. He's kind of a troll bastard.

Hell is the absence of God's love of which you voluntarily choose by abandoning love for your fellow man. It isn't eternal, and you opt out of it once accept and engage in the love you rejected. The community of love (the Holy Spirit) is shown as the redemptive force that allows us to be with closer to God by establishing an authentic relationship with his creation.

If were using the terms "Good" and "Evil", as I explained above he couldn't be counted as "evil" for hell and such concepts only function in relation to an absolute such as God.

Your soul isn't even "you", as in the the abstraction your brain creates to interact with the physical world that you treat as "you". Death means the death of all of you which is physical and organic, including your brain and memories. Death in the Christian sense is just as absolute as the atheist sense in the realm of the physical, the ego you call "you" is completely destroyed. The only thing remaining is the essence Christians call a soul which continues removed from any of these physically bound things. Each person in life must make independent choices and live with those decisions, and proper Christians must live in the same existential reality everyone else lives in where we all are trapped in a state of indecision and and at times despair where we are conscious of the many possible consequences of what we do and where the anxiety ridden choice of "goodness" comes down to only us.

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He created hell. He can suck my nuts.