Did you all hear about the elections in Venezuela today

How much of the vote would PSUV get if the elections were fair? Is there support for Maduro on the streets?

Brain drain is a capitalist symptom, it is how you keep the third world…"third". Look at the "success" of capitalism in other shitty places in Latin America/the Caribbean.

Nobody ever uses "not real socialism" here. You cannot "try a socialism" or just wave a red flag and actually achieve it. I'd love to hear your strawman definition of socialism.
False, same talking point as any Zig Forumsyp or talking head on the news

Also you have no proof that you are Venezuelan.

Nice attempt at obscurity, Homeland Security.

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I love it when Zig Forumsyps think anyone other than themselves and dumb sheeps will belive their blatant lies.
Righwingers are morally defunct.

Fpbp

lol we finally actually get someone from the country in question and you get banned.

during the riots the western media lied so much, it's actually sickening
this tells just how much hated the corrupt united opposition is in venezuela

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But user, everyone is claiming the muh vote bribes through the fatherland cards. Which is it?

He never posted proof he was Venezuelan.

Venezuelan here!
Commies bad, capitalism good.
We cant wait until the US bombs us!

Don't believe this cuck.

Yo necescito una pinga en mi boca. Literally translates to I am a Venezuelan. Communist death squads are roving looking for people who won't stand with Israel and Trump. You know people who actually believe in individual freedom for capitalists like me.

Just because my grandpa is powering this computer via bicycle and the connection is a banana leaf doesn't mean I won't own a boot of my own to step on you commies when the day of the rope comes.

If you are referring to bribes for voting yes those have been around since 1999.

All companies conducting business in Venz are subject to the governments whims. If the government wants to own them they simply take it. That is why there is lines in the supermarket and a lack of basic necessities. Ps thats why news agencies dont have any freedom to report on things that would play negative to the government.

Okay mama huevo mamame lo

In all honesty no one knows. The problems is that the corruption has been going for so long that you cant predict it what people actually from their heart support the movement. Plus there is also other things that have changed the number like bribes, dead people voting, etc. I'm not saying that all people don't support the current party. But the people who do support it heavily have been "influenced" by its "wealth distribution" system.

What would I get from lying to you? Nothing.

People who actually protest in Venezuela are either severely injured or even killed by hired government thugs. One of my friends was killed by the national guard.

Okay sigue esperando a papa Trump. El no va hacer nada como la NU

Also to all people who complain about me lying and not knowing my shit why don't you move to Venezuela if you trust it so much? Nothing is stoping you from living the "real" socialism dream.

back to /reddit/

So again, are people being bribed to vote or is there mass voter supression? Believe me lad you cannae have both.
Also if you are Venezuelan, post your fatherland card with the identifactory parts blurred out.

All governments in the world 'can' nationalise enterprises. Venezuela's government doesn't, just like any other capitalist country. But thanks for tacitly admitting that the private sector is the cause of shortages you fucking shill

Hue. That's funny, more gov supporters were killed than anyone of the opposition, in fact all of the violence was started by the opposition.
You would feel better pretending that those ebul gringos don't know whats happening in your shithole while shilling for neoliberal fascists.
A direitalha entreguista é a mesma em todos os lugares, pau no teu cu.

*private companies team up with foreign importers to choke the economy*
Gee, like clockwork, youre ignorant of the social composition of your country

Real Venezuelan here guys
Everyone loves Maduro here. All the boycotters were forced to by the CIA. Also no one is starving and there is no inflation.

If you don't believe me at face value then you are brainwashed by US propaganda

Actually both. A popular tactic that chavez used was to buy the poor like new fridges, food, some money, etc. To cause voter suppression votes would often get "lost" or "changed" to the correct answer. No voy a meter my cedula mamahuevo.

True. All "governments" can take over companies. But what real "government" takes land without a court hearing or court approval? Plus the majority of government take overs have been related to oil, news, and the agriculture. Literally the means of production. Private facilities cannot operate if the government does not allow them to. Thats why you have to wait 5 years to get a car or wait inline to get food if there is any.

Of course they were. Where you get those number from? Also did you miss the snipers, national guard and hired thugs literally firing into crowds to oppress people?

What economy? Majority of the companies left and those left are majority owned by the government. I literally have to send food and toilet paper to my family cause they cant find it. And if they do you cant pay for it cause its ridiculous expensive in the black market.

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Its not hard chavo, also funny thing that the west, where great private monopolies handle food exchange, is experiencing the most hardship but the east, where its coops and state owned, the markets are stocked.

Yet 70% of the means of production, 70% of the economy is in private ownership, is operated for private profit. In fact the share of the economy in private ownership has risen since 2013 when Maduro came to power. The majority of the economy and growing is private. The same private companies that own the vast majority of the country are selling on the black market to make larger profits, to profit off of blackmailing the public.

Booj media is screaming bloody murder so it can only be good.

>Venezuelas current party PSUV (Partido Socialista Unido de Venezuela, aka Socialist Party of United Venezuela) has owned and regulated the means of production, distribution, and exchange since 1999.

I believe this maneuver called moving the goalpost.
Do you also believe they had bread lines in the GDR? They had not. So, what do you conclude from this, that the GDR was less socialist than current Venezuela?
The friend's name? Albert Einstein.

You went from

PSUV has owned and regulated the means of production, distribution, and exchange since 1999

To

All companies conducting business in Venz are subject to the governments whims

And now to

majority owned by the government.

Please, stop lying or get informed about the country you suposedly live in.

This guy is right about Venezuela but wrong about the socialist part.

The Chavistas have been in power since 1999. That's almost twenty years. What have they achieved? Hunger, shortages, corruption, and one of the world's highest crime rates. They've fucked the country. Compare what the USSR achieved in the same period. They were building entire cities with massive industrial centers. Venezuela? They don't have shit to show for it.

Maduro's government has resorted to manipulate the democratic process to keep the opposition from taking control of the government. When the opposition won elections in 2015 the government simply removed the powers of the national assembly and created another one. Why? Because Maduro is a fucking idiot who is ruining the country. His approval rating is almost as low as the corrupt neoliberal Presidents of other Latin American countries.

Based on the data it doesn't even seem that Venezuela has pursued socialism. Under Chavez the private sector grew faster than the public sector, meaning that more of the economy was in private hands than before. Now, without repeating the fallacy of "socialism is when the government does stuff" it's also obvious that creating a socialized form of production would entail doing away with private ownership of capital. Even today the private sector is, what, 70% of the economy?

Even if you want to blame the entire situation on foreign meddling or the capitalists - why doesn't Cuba have these problems? Venezuela could have neutralized the oligarchs and capitalists years ago.

They should stop being retarded, stop pegging their currency, stop subsidising food, instead give money directly to the people, and nationalize all that shit already.

People are out of food because its so cheap it gets smuggled to colombia. Get ur shit together.

I think youll find that rebuilding a country from a clean slate is different than wrangling a country into order. Also remember that the only reason why Cuba exists now is because the soviets were going to back them up when the US invaded them, which dint happen after the whole missile crisis

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They should just nationalize and invite Belorussian and Cuban advisers and engineers for help.

Holy shit guys the United States government owns the means of production too

Not if you print the money obviously, but they are already subsedising food, people need to eat somehow, and the poor dont have the means to do so. So to stop people from exporting the cheap food, give money to the people directly to buy food at normal market prices.

Oh and by the way in an inflaitonary crisis giving money to the poor actually helps the poor. It reduces the value of their debt, it reduces the value of the savings of the rich, while they keep getting the same real value.

It actually makes sense because it works in European Welfare states, but more radical actions must take place to fix things

Thay's the thing tho, this was caused by money printing in the first place: Maduro went for that over an IMF loan (the right, if still shit, move). Said money printing went to welfare and this is how it went to shit.

Also invite North Koreans, despite their flaws, North Korea is stable and moving forward.

"Welfare" is not a monolith thing you can blame everything on, crypto-rightard. Subsidising products is retarded if those products can be easily exported. Subsedising products is a shit idea in general. Giving people money is a much safer way to get people the things they need.

Doubt.png

The curse of the eternal succdem is truly terrifying.

Go back to your containment thread, you filthy vermin.

No user the point I am making is that the printed money went into the pockets of consumers, which entered the cashflow, thus causing inflation. People's QE should be used for infrastructure, where the diffusion into the economy is spread and the investment generates growth itself.

This is because the Chavista government is "democratic socialist" ie - they believe that socialism can be implemented without smashing the capitalist state and forcing workers' power by creating a workers' state. It is simply impossible to inaugurate socialism and workers' power in the context of the bourgeois state because the bourgeois state exists for the benefit of the bourgeoisie.

The great inactors of neoliberalism aren't the libertarians but the social democrats - the very people in Europe today defending the welfare state are the very ones who are dismantling it. Venezuela is like the Provisional Government that the Bolsheviks overthrew in 1917, a bourgeois government controlled by capital operated by people who call themselves "socialist".

The only solution to capitalism is proletarian revolution; nothing less.

Who cares? Corporations certainly don't represent the people - only the working class can represent the people. Understanding politics in terms of corporate power means subordinating the working class to the interests of corporate capital.

Ultimately what matters is the class dimensions of the political economy. State control over corporations is meaningless if the enterprise and the state are capitalist - which is the case of Venezuela. The problem with Venezuela isn't that it's socialist, but that it's capitalist to the core.

Capitalism is not a set of policies you can enact. Socialism is not a set of policies you can enact. Neither are performed by individuals. They are economic systems that exist beyond individual policies and individuals in general. A social revolution from capitalism to socialism would mean a fundamental rupture in the very edifice that bourgeois society revolves - the institution of private property. An institution that the regime has not and cannot liquidate. Even the slipshod attempts will ultimately fail because the state is a bourgeois state and not a proletarian state; only a smashing of the dictatorship of capital and its replacement by a dictatorship of labor can abolish private property.

Hatnon, do you think venezuelans will ultimatelly have to kill maduro in order to begin their transition?

Buenos dias. Real Venezuelan here. Actually Maduro is awesome and the gusano faggots deserve to be gulaged.

The Bolsheviks never killed Kerensky so no.

But the Venezuelan working class must overthrow the revisionist government, just as how the working class all across the world must overthrow their own respective bourgeois governments.

Excellent posts!

SOCIALISM OF THE 21ST CENTURY WITH BAATHIST CHARACTERISTICS WHEN
On a real, I give Maduro 6 months to fix shit before a military coup. However fear not anons, for the military is more Chavista than Chavez. They will likely round up a load of corrupt officals, perhaps shoot them, then try to bring in the left-opposition into the fold. They will hail it as the end of the "Maduroist dictatorship" and the opposition will fall apart, not sure if to rejoin the new PSUV, to rengage with the system to to keep up with counterrevolutionary impossibilism. The econ will take few years to fix but most countries will welcome the coup thinking it will be their way back in and end sanctions (probs not the US though), they will then realise that the army are ultrachavistas but by then it will be too late. That is if Maduro cannot pull off a way out of the tailspin.

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This sounds too good to be true. When can we have venezuelan commie soldiers invading the rest of south america?

Nah, it'll be used as the start of an American funded open insurrection, mark my words. I don't see things ending well for Venezuelan with the evil empire looming to the north.

(me)
There is also another possible resolutuion, a managed colour revolutuion. What happens is the Chavista army makes a pact with the left opposition, where they launch a protest and like in Armenia the soldiers join in and Maduro likely shits himself and quits. See the coup option but with less bloodshed. This is the scenario my Panemerian mate (who is a rockefeller republicam btw) says will happen. Lots of army men are pissed off with Maduro, he was only picked because he is a civie and many thought another officer should take over.

the opposition in venezuela are fascist puppets of the US

I fear that aswell….. I mean, considering what those pigs did to Brazil back in the 60s….
WAKE ME UP(WAKE ME UP IN TIME)

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wow got a smaller jpeg_

srry

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ok thanx

I don't think they're into perm rev, just classic military populism turned into socialism instead of fascism.

Insurgency by whom though? There are a lot of people that still love Chavez and hate Maduro, people see him as a traitor to Chavismo. Also you have to remember there are actually ultrachavista gangs that Maduro outlawed (did fuckall) because they would go around beating up opposition leaders. A PSUV saying is "CHAVEZ LIVES", that is true: his revolutionary spirit still empowers people. The US could start an insurgency sure, but it would be like the traincar decision.

Remind me of moving to Venezuela after those pupulist soldiers take over.
Petroleum is so cheap over there heehee. Socialism with cheap oil FTW.

I dunno, Colombian mercenaries? I mean it worked in Syria to bring in outsiders. Although I have to admit likely there is not a Jihadist-like reservoir of foreign fighters, unless they somehow involve drug gangs. Which, happily, Columbia can also provide!

The Vez-Col border is v remote and easy to cut-off. Also Colombia is about to maybe elect a leftist president called Petro. Add to that the indigenous support for Chavez, which is v strong.

I refuse to aknowledge Marudo as my daddy until he calls burgers "yanquis de mierda" just like old school Chavez used to back in the day Obongo was running the office. Damn, Chavez was so based.

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i suggest telesur as the best medium that uncovers the media manipulation
there is an organised paramilitary forces terrorising chavists
most of the killed protestors that the media talked about were chavists yet they hid that
telesurtv.net/english/news/Chavista-Trade-Unionist-Kidnapped-and-Murdered-in-Venezuela-20170424-0011.html

Another Venezuelan who did vote yesterday. Ask me anything.

Who did you vote for

Is the other guy full of shit?

Show your fatherland card.

Maduro. All things considering, it was the best choice. The other guys we're practically surrendering to the U.S.A. I mean, they propose to give up our currency. "Dollarize" to end the hyperinflation caused by the oligarchs

"but the US isnt trying to sabotage Venezuela"

Your Spanish is atrocious, no fucking way you're Venezuelan.

Yes he is, he can't speak Spanish.

No they don't, they are sticking with the electoral system because the threat of an invasion or coup from the USA is too great otherwise. Look how many gusanos there are in Venezuela, they're not the majority, but they're a significant amount. With a full-scale revolution, they'd need to be GULAGed. That'd be very risky.

That was the same argument made against the Bolsheviks in support of the Provisional Government. It was argued that to establish workers' power would have meant disturbing the "balance of power". And this argument was made in a time when the balance of power was so disturbed by the Imperialist War, counterrevolutionary forces were largely internal rather than external. In the case of the Paris Commune even, the international conditions were even worse, with the Prussian army not too far away from the Commune, ready to overthrow them. While understanding that the revolt would in all likelihood lead to failure, Marx was a staunch supporter of the Paris Commune. Even a defeat, a set-back, such as the Paris Commune, can provide fertile grounds for future struggle as what is learned from the experience is embedded into the historical memory of the working class struggle.

To argue against workers' power is to provide excuses to the submission of the interests of labor to the interests of capital. Insofar as a revolutionary strategy for a civilization beyond capitalism is not used as the basis of our politics, the politics of the working class will forever be dependent upon capital. As Lenin once said, the struggle of the working class necessarily becomes a political struggle for the seizure of power.

We should not be afraid of defeat if it means "success" will lead to the defeat of the self-determination of the working class.

Well said.

The revolution is the whole point. That's what moves the great masses of people - the idea that we are going to actually change something. The idea that voting will actually mean something.

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"I am well aware that it is now the fashion to deny that Socialism has anything to do with equality. In every country in the world a huge tribe of party-hacks and sleek little professors are busy ‘proving’ that Socialism means no more than a planned state-capitalism with the grab-motive left intact. But fortunately there also exists a vision of Socialism quite different from this. The thing that attracts ordinary men to Socialism and makes them willing to risk their skins for it, the ‘mystique’ of Socialism, is the idea of equality; to the vast majority of people Socialism means a classless society, or it means nothing at all. And it was here that those few months in the militia were valuable to me. For the Spanish militias, while they lasted, were a sort of microcosm of a classless society. In that community where no one was on the make, where there was a shortage of everything but no privilege and no boot-licking, one got, perhaps, a crude forecast of what the opening stages of Socialism might be like. And, after all, instead of disillusioning me it deeply attracted me. The effect was to make my desire to see Socialism established much more actual than it had been before."
-George Orwell, Homage to Catalonia

The other guy couldn't even get the dates of the elections correct. If all elections were rigged the how come the opposition has won several a long the years. So the system works if they win, and when it doesn't favor them the system is rigged. Typical.

But he's Venezuelan alright.

The private sector controls about 70% of the means of production more or less. In distribution and commercialization they hold almost 90% to not be an absolutist.

Can't do my smartphone is damaged, don't have it with me. However i can attach my ID.

I fear this too, we can hold and resist, but someone bigger has to take care of the burgers in order to catch a break from those guys.

This is not quite like this, but I don't have info on the military sector, I'm just an electrical engineer in project developing and consulting.

Hahaha we need to do that, but Maduro's hand are tied, he does that and the U.S. bombs fall the next day.

If Maduro doesn't take proper actions these next three months or so, people on our side are going to oust him surely. Things are rough, the prices are going up by the day, impunity, no one gets punished.

These numbers are higher than the average in the region.

I can answer some question today, the other day I lost my internet connection du to problem with the optic fiber

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What is important is not this or that price to be fixed, but the cost of a basket of commodities. In the 70s, two American economists (Abba Lerner and David Colander) came up with a procedure to fix inflation without directly fixing all prices. It's somewhat like trading pollution rights, except it is trading price-raising rights. Companies that price things below their price-raising allowance can generate price-raising rights with that to sell to those who want to set their prices higher than allowance. It's called MAP, Market Anti-inflation Plan. The great thing about it is that it even works with monopolies, forcing them to act more like with having competition. I wish people in Venezuela knew about this proposal.

Holy shit, Zig Forums embarrassed himself one more time, walking in here pretending to be a Venezuelan.

One question for the real Venezuela user: How is the actual living quality in Venezuela right now? Is it that bad like they portray it in the Western media, about people eating dogs and undernourishment? How is the living quality in Venezuela right now compared to a few years ago and compared to the neighbouring Latin American countries?

who?

The living quality has diminished a lot, behaving almost in a logarithmic manner. But it's kind of curious you know? the black market exchange rate right now is almost 1million Bs for each dollar.

So let's say the minimum wage would be like $4 a month or so? maybe $5. Okay you could say that amount it's impossible to live anywhere, even when a cup of coffee costs like $0,30 here, but then again the government delivers each month to most families a whole box of groceries (wheat flour, corn flour, pasta, rice, beans, tuna, oil, mayo, ketchup etc.) that this month i bought for $0,023. I pay for electricity something like $0,00015 like 200kWh a month, which is subsidized by the government, gas is about $0,000001 per liter, cable? maybe $0,5 private company of course. The costs of transportation are somehting like $0,02 between cities (The public transportation services are co-ops, so at the end of the day they are private or behave like that because they want to raise prices whenever they like).

If I review each year I would say that since 2015 things for me particularly have been going downhill. But I still could managed to save money each month. I started working in 2012 earning like $2.500,00 a month, in 2013 I bought an apartment that cost me something like $30.000,00. A nice 60m2 apt. in a quiet middle class neighborhood. It was manageable.

In 2014 the price of commodities, things, food etc… doubled. But still I could eat everyday outside in restaurants (Not cooking each day to bring lunch), a lunch by that time was like $2 maybe, but then the black market exchange rate was the one defining the way prices behave and it started rising like crazy, but still manegeable, i was able to drink beer since wednesday to friday, about 12 or 13 everyday, each beer about 222ml really cheap.

By 2015 the shortages started to appear and cause damage, people "Bachaqueros" were called, started to buy and accumulate production for themselves and then they re-sold the products at double/triple the price, and most cases in cash only. With the advantage that you wouldn't wait in "lines". These became standard practice. Buying and re-selling products at higher profits, but something really crazy 1000%, 2000% profits.

In 2016 shortages were the norm, everybody were waiting in lines to buy cheap stuff, nevertheless, we had money to do so still, i mean we could buy stuff with the money we earned, but supermarkets were empty, higher demand, lower supply right? there were price controls, in action. In december of that year we lost majority of the National Assembly (Congress). So the opposition started the year with a high ego. Chavismo was dead. People were tired of waiting in lines for everything and for not finding whatever they wanted to buy.

However, by the start of 2017 things started to look better, Maduro managed to make a deal with OPEC and other oil producing countries like Russia to raise oil price. The economy, under my perspective was getting better, prices were stabilizing etc. Then by April of that year, after some ruckus in the OEA led by the US (Organization of States of America in english? OSA?) the opposition started the "Guarimbas" and everything went to hell again. The black market dollar-bolivar exchange rate was before guarimbas of about 2.000,00Bs for $1, after the National Constituent Assembly elections black market exchange rate went up to more than 20.000,00Bs for $1 and started to go up each week and each week.

The people understood that the opposition wanted to burn the country to ashes, were behaving super violent, trying to pull an Ukranian style coup. Chavismo united, with clear thoughts on who were the real enemies and dealt three electoral blows destroying the oppositions aspirations. I mean the opposition were put to shame, completely disoriented, disorganized, divided.

Right now in 2018 the black market exchange rate got to 250.000,00 until March or April, then all of a sudden for no real material, objective reasons the price went to 1.000.000,00 for $1, all in one month. These last 5 months have been brutal, the rise in prices obliterated my salary. I can't eat in restaurants anymore, because if I earn $4 a really low quality lunch cost me about $1,5 wtf is that? how did that happened in just a couple of months.

Of course there are people that receives money from outside the country directly in dollars, from family members who let the country and are being exploited in other countries, working for more than 12 hours for peanuts were they are, but trying to save money to send here, to buy properties and cars and food here in Venezuela because the value of the dollar is super high.

Others have income in dollars but in here in Venezuela, they stayed and this group is comprised of corrupt government officials, corrupt private "entrepreneurs" and drug dealers.

Hardcore chavistas, socialists that are frustrated that things don't take off for socialism, tired of reformism and negotiating with the private sector and the right. Hardcore communists. People tired of the corrupt government officials of the speculators, the private companies that are profiting from this crisis and want "blood" justice sort of speak.

Phew that was long…

The eating dogs is a lie. Undernourishment if it meant, stopping with the soda and cola drinking, high sugar beverages and products. Fat, fried stuff etc… but yeah things are getting harder by the day. Maybe soon we won't be eating three meals because everything is too expensive. Now we see all the products in the shelves at the supermarkets but we don't have money to buy much.

Thank you for the update. I hope it gets better…

paris commune ironically enough ended parisian working class radicalism once and for all after they had led the way in 1790s, 1815, 1830, 1833, 1848, late 1860s

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I don't understand why the government doesn't let the exchange rate float.

why is this guy banned?
i constantly get shit for defending venezuela on this board and i don't see anything wrong in that post

Because the state may run out of international reserves to fund social programs or maintaining itself.

The exchange rate may drop for a while, in the meantime capitalists and regular people will change all bolivars to dollars and take them to foreign bank accounts outside Venezuela, which eventually will cause the exchange to get incredibly high again,

From the sound of it the government is just fundamentally too weak. This buying and reselling should be a capital crime.

Probably because of this comment right here

This is complete false. In fact there has been 4 elections in the past nine months where the opposition could capitalize a win, coming from their big win in 2016, national assembly elections. But because of their incompetence, the conflict of interest they hold within, the U.S. agenda for them, the lack of proposals for the people (Blatant neoliberalism and anti-communist rethoric) and their refusal to participate in elections they have lost each and everyone of them.

The elections for the national assembly were in december of 2016. The national assembly lost all its powers and relevancy, by a judgement emitted by the Supreme Justice Court because of two things:

1. Three recently elected members of the new assembly were having objections in their award by other parties involved in the election process. There were evidence of irregularities in the voting process, not in the system per se or machines, but in the way people were being paid to vote for certain candidates and the secrecy of the vote was at fault.

The Supreme Justice Court demanded that the president of the new National Assembly removed from office those three members, the president of the national assembly refused and disobeyed a direct order from the Supreme Justice Court. In our constitution when stuff like that happens the Supreme Justice Court disables the National Assembly and takes some of its functions while the problem it's solved. A childish move by the opposition.

2. The new National Assembly or the opposition's national assembly, started to pass unconstitutional laws and started to dissolve some of the social advances in land laws, oil laws, corporate laws etc. blatantly against our constitution.

Maduro used a tool in the constitution to raise things to a higher instance, by calling a National Constituent Assembly. Completely valid.

ah, seems about right, didn't read this properly from being too tired
good for pointing that out, at least my stupid question resulted in your productive reply, so thank you