Magyar fonál

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lolé, hát ez nagyon maszek volt

lib stands for LIBERATION OF THE OPRESSED PROLETARIAT

ABBIAMO VEGLIATO UNA NOTTE

LA NOTTE DEI CENTO E PIÙ MESI

SOGNANDO QUEI GIORNI D'OTTOBRE

QUES'TALBA DEI GIOVAN'UNGHERESI

Well, that would be reason enough to GULAG Orby at once!

Dear Hungarocomrades, I feel obliged to apologise to all of you for this fellow Wop's reactionary shitposting. Nagyon sajnálom.

...

Igen, szavaztam. Megnéztem az előző cikketeket, forradalmiforras.blog.hu/2018/05/11/konzervativok_es_liberalisok_a_demokracia_rabsagaban , és szerintem tipik bolsi-náci írás. Ugye kábé arról szól, hogy ha én – kommunistaként – szavaztam mondjuk az LMP-re, akkor kb. elárultam a munkásosztályt.

De most komolyan, nem látjátok, hogy Orbán mit csinál ezzel az országgal? Az ilyen fasiszták ellen mindenféle eszközt be kell vetni,és ha kell, akkor igenis szavazok egy MSZP-re csak hogy ne rontsák tovább a helyzetet.

Ja, és a cikkből:

Nem mmondjátok, hogy 2018-ban nem vagytok feministák?! Én sem szeretem az "osztályredukcionista" mémet, de ez akkor is gáz.

Kép releváns: ha nem tartózkodnátok a pártpolitikától, akkor ez lett volna az MSZP platform.

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this songs proves that 1956 was a fascist rebellion that deserved to be crushed

What the fuck, from the mountaisn to the rifle and the girl IT IS AN EXACT QUOTE FROM BELLA CIAO

buzi

Szia, Buzi. Géza vagyok.

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belgian user here, cool that we're having all the different national threads!

Seems like the hungarian government is going full mccarthy. In what way did they try to "erase" lukács?

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there's an archive that holds most of his personal letters, and other stuff that wasn't published on a mass sclae/at all. The government tried to close the archive and sieze all the assets.

mikrópuha festék ennyit tud

Hungaro-mongoloid comrade here. IMO Lukács had – in total – a negative effect on Hungarian communism. Hear me out.

The first thing that would make him suspect is his ("Budapest school's," rather) following: almost all of the students of said orientation (Ágnes Heller, János Weiss, etc.) turned into liberals supporting the EU, since "communism has already been tried".

The second thing that would make his work suspect, in connection with the previous point, is his humanism. A completely moralist position in accordance with bourgeois law, and from a theoretical POV, a preference of the early Marx (still under the influence of Feuerbach, and an idealist conception of Hegel) over the later Marx.

Third, yes, the Lukácsian heritage is still very alive, in fact, I'd argue that it is the main barrier for the Hungarian communist movement to develop its maturity. The only monthly kinda-communist journal, Eszmélet – see: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eszmélet and the poem from which it borrows the name: mathstat.dal.ca/~lukacs/ja/poems2/jozsef-eng.htm#11 – is a living embodiment of the Lukácsian heritage: the celebration of analytic "Marxists" (Mészáros et al., for whom Venezuela is the "21st century socialism" and who have a global model that mirrors that of "third worldist maoists"), and the celebration of "humanitarian struggles".

I, for one, welcome the death of the Lukácsian heritage, while knowing very well that the government's attack on (Lukács/ian) statues and institutions is a gesture of anti-communism.

For me the hungarian communist movement will arise if and only if the Lukácsians become a minority. TL;DR: Marx was an avid an open anti-humanist, and those who deny it are illiterates.

FIGYELEM
KÁROS MAGYAR LIBSIK LESZAVAZZÁK A VIDEJÓT.
MEG KELL ÁLLÍTANI: reddit.com/r/hungary/comments/8l2xsg/mindennapi_propaganda_reklám_apple_homepod_elemzés/
FIGYELEM

Milyen szoftvert használolsz?

Is this cancer?

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it's a nazi song

Nagyon szépen köszönöm, Hungaro-comrade.

We have to agree to disagree here. Obviously, you know much more than me about Lukács and his thought and you may be even right. But that's not the point.
I've heard about Heller and I know she used to be a Lukácsian that eventually turned neoliberal, pro-capitalist and all that jazz. But that is true for a shedload of other thinkers that, in a way or another, moved from some kind of marxism - or generically socialism - to neoliberalism or even more reactionary stuff. Should we think that basically almost every marxist/anticapitalist tradition is then suspect?

On Venezuela: it may not be the embodiment of an ideal socialist paradise and it has its flaws for sure, but I still support it. I think we should all be much less dogmatic on practical matters, idealism or materialism, humanism or antihumanism aside.

Also, I guess the development of Hungarian communism is today blocked by much more pressing material conditions than mere theoretical issues.

Ciao!

No. As with any and all kind of Marxist traditions we should look at the inherent, or "basic" theoretical assumptions of said "Marxist schools of thought".

My point is that it is not random that nearly all of Lukács's students turned (neo-)lib. My point is that there's an inherent dimension inside Lukácsianism that propels the Budapest School's former proponents to turn towards the EU's ideals!

These should be analyzed (as with everyone) on a case-to-case basis. What I'm saying here is that the "Budapest School's" inherent properties are what made the neo-lib turn possible; in other words: you can highlight in Lukács's work how the post-communist Lukácsians acted and thought, namely, humanism.

No. Why would you? Is the "Makhnovist tradition" suspect of becoming neolib? No! Is the Leninist tradition suspect of becoming neolib? No!

The REASON for these lies in their (theoretical/historic) contributions.

Critical support is one thing. Labelling them as the true successors of 21st century socialism is another!

>I think we should all be much less dogmatic on practical matters
Who is being dogmatic in this discussion, m8? My point is: Lukács was a humanist fag – theoretically –, and as such, should be disregarded, criticized, scrutinized!

Real, theoretical questions (such, as you mention them, "idealism or materialism, humanism or antihumanism") are not some kind of abstract willy-wanking issues, but have ABSOLUTE effect on our praxis.

Remember, the Marxist route is: theory -> praxis.

As a Leninist I completely disagree! It is, foremost, our (hungaro-mongoloid's) theoretical stance that informs our praxis. And while our theory is humanist, our praxis can not be properly Marxist!

(faggotry intensifies)

Wtf man. Infuriating

I admittedly haven't read lukács, only read a bit about him on a basic level (and saw him in a college class). But his theories of reification don't seem very "liberal" to me. I think you might be discrediting him too quickly because of the abuse of his thought by liberals. After all, crypto-liberals are abusing Marx and Lenin just as well.
Also "humanism" is a bit of a buzzword fam, it doesn't mean a whole lot. I do like Sartre who explicitly called himself a "humanist".

MAGYAR NYELVŰ BESZÁMOLÓ!

Again, I must reiterate: the liberal dimension INSIDE Lukács is humanism. Marx, at least the elder Marx, was anti-humanist.

You are missing my point completely. My point is that his inherent and outright humanism is the very reason that his so-called followers turned neo-lib!

You don't see avid readers of Marx turn into EU-apologists, ffs.

No, it is a concrete theoretical position. If you can not tell the difference between humanism and anti-humanism you shouldn't be making posts about this very concrete theoretical issue!

But then again you are an under-read faggot.

calm your tits. If you agree there's valuable ideas in lukács' works, that's already enough reason not to let his archive be destroyed.

what did he mean by this?

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I made it explicit already: I recognize that the über-right wing gov. of Hungary destroys the last remains of the academic tradition of Lukács as an attack against communism. I'm opposed to that.

Also, I made it clear as well: no self-proclaimed communist in the 21st century should support the Lukácsian framework, as it contains a humanist element. You did not respond to this, and I expect you not to in the future!

I did not say that reading x theorist (incl. Sartre) makes you an under-read faggot, however, I did say, that you not understanding the vehemence of the humanist claim on Marxist theory makes you an under-read faggot.

thinking.png
as long as you don't explain what exactly your problem with this meme word "humanism" is, no I won't
1) In what text does Marx even talk about "humanism" being bad? I'm thrilled to read it.
2) What dogmatic fags fail to understand is that it's possible to read texts by Marx and still disagree with things he says. Marx =/= God

Since this is a Hungayrian thread be considerate about the fact. I've attached a Hungayrian TL;DR about the issue here:

The mature Marx talks comprehensively about bourgeois rights. Humanism is still connected to essences and bourg. rights. This is a fact.

Lel. There's nothing dogmatic about following the developments of Marx's teaching. It's called comprehensive understating of a thinkers intellectual journey.

Sum thread. Shame it'll go nowhere. Not only are we talking about a country in which the civnat government has held its supermajority for a third consecutive term, and in which a disorganized and squabbling "left"-wing has been decisively crushed YET AGAIN, but the 3 Hungarians in here are promulgating their fantasies about spreading warmed-over Stalinism among the populace.

The facts on the ground are that Communism is going precisely nowhere in Hungary for three reasons:
1. The label is utterly toxic because the Soviets were correctly seen as a foreign occupying power.
2. There is no party that can challenge FIDESZ from the left. The liberals (LMP, DK, Együtt, LMP, etc. pp.) are busy re-enacting Game of Thrones over the 20% of voter share they have left, and the hard-left Munkáspárt got 1% of the vote - and that with Thürmer rhetorically embracing xenophobic Nazbolism.
3. This might be hard to picture for a Westerner, but identifying as a Communist in public (esp. ostentatiously, by waving red flags and wearing the Hammer & Sickle) can legit get you beat up. While it's not as controversial as displaying the Swastika in Germany, it's comparable. The only people in this country claiming the label of "Communist" for themselves are scrawny edgelords like , , . They'll deny it, but that's what they are. They exhibit an utterly unserious and unreflective approach to Socialism that is guaranteed to never-ever bear fruit.

Saying that you want the Rákosi-flag back or that you're against a Communist author because his writing had "the element of humanism" is as edgy and contrarian as dressing up in an SS uniform and walking through the streets of Berlin, parading an effigy of a hanged Jew in front of you, warning of the the next Holocaust.

via youtube.com/channel/UCkfxaVyDL52_q3kx31xgbYQ

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Hungarian Communists are the cringiest people in the world, thinking they're hot shit because they were part of an empire, that no matter how big it was they had to call to Germany for help in WW1 and still fucking lost.

oh fucking knob off, it's literally a pensioner nostalgia club.
idk how much more I can do to help actual working class people than I already do. There's no fucking point in actually organising at all. I know people who were literally beat up for attending a socialist reading club we tried to start in my hometown. All I can do is go to bloody soup kitchens and help poor people get clothes to wear and wood to burn during the winter. I don't think even an armed uprising could lead to anything here. It's not gonna fucking happen. I have friends who think Putin is socialist because he kills gay people. Hungarians are fucking hopeless. All I can do is sit around like a good leftcom and wait for socialism to happen out of nowhere, because it's still more probably than anything else at this point.

you're a really fucking stupid one, aren't you?

*probable

Why would Hungarian communists take pride in the Habsburg Empire? It's like Russian communists taking pride in the Romanovs