Women and Immigrants

So if the integration of women had even worse effects on the working class as immigration (increase of labor supply and the downward pressure on wages), why is one supported and the other opposed?
Was not women's liberation a generally bad thing for workers, unions and labor movements in general?

One could make the argument for both (as do liberals and incrementalists who see the breaking of borders in the same category as getting rid of all identities but class), or the argument against both (as Zig Forumsacks currently do and traditionalist communists did in the past), but is it not contradictory to be for one and against the other?

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economist.com/the-world-if/2017/07/13/a-world-of-free-movement-would-be-78-trillion-richer
archive.is/CXzWM
quillette.com/2017/08/27/argument-open-borders-liberal-hubris/
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Yes, but unlike mass migration, the integration of women into the workforce did have positive benefits.

Nope, let me explain.

With migrant, they are driven away out of their home country, often with the smartest and most capable and most highly educated going first, to work in first world nations. This damages the development of their home country, this hinders that areas ability to develop and build infrastructure and industry. At the same time, it drives down wages in the first world, or wherever they immigrate to. It is an overall net negative. The immigrants are forced out, the people who they leave behind suffer from the braindrain, the target countries have an increased labour supply that drives down their ability to unionize. Nobody except the capitalists benefit.

Now for women entering the workforce, it is different. Immigrants in the first or third world, despite their differences in wealth, still have roughly the same position in society. Both work, sell their labour to capitalists, both receive income. Both weild power in their society through the forms of strikes and unions. But this is not the case with women and men having working and non working roles.
With women being housewives, they depend entirely on their husband for living, there is still money involved in this relationship. The women have to be subject to the man, because the man controls the income. This is a hierarchical relationship, wherein one of the parties has to sell their labour (housework, etc) to the other (the man). By abolishing this class-like relation, you abolish the subjugation of women to men, and you abolish the dominance of men over women. This is positive. Now, it also has negatives, as you mentioned. By introducing women to the workforce, they effectively doubled the labour supply. As a result, wages over time also dropped to half of what they were, because keep in mind, people get paid just enough to reproduce labour, ie not starve and not have their kids starve. Where in the past, one income could support one family, now two parents need to work to support one family. This is common knowledge, everyone experienced it, your parents no doubt would have told you they have to work more than their parents for the same kind of income. This is very negative. The better solution would have been to have both men and women work, at half the rate the man did before, but we all know that under capitalism, they demand the maximum working hours they can get out of people. Under capitalism, this is not possible, you cannot reduce working hours. In many first world places people work just as much as during the industrial revolution, pulling 12 hour shifts 6 days a week. 60 hour workweeks are not unheard of, and are quite common.

That is the difference. While women "liberation" certainly liberated both women and men from this harmful hierarchical relationship, it also doomed them to work more and more. There is a positive and a negative side to this. But with mass migration, there are no upsides. Braindrain destroy communities, it destroys unions and labour power in the richer countries, creates ethnic tension, etc, while not really making a meaningfull positive impact overall. The alternative to not liberating women can only be subjegation, which is negative, the alternative to no mass migration is peace and stability, which is positive.

It is interesting to point out that feminist-exclusive movements in the past were mostly comprised of bourgoies women, who are the only women who only received benefits from their liberation. They got to own property, they got to exploit workers, and be free, while working women were cast from one form of subjugation into another. Working class women had always fought side by side with working men to abolish capitalism, and socialist movements had always incorporated equality of the sexes.

Many countries, such as the Philippines or El Salvador, -depend- on remittances, and remittances are proven to be more effective than foreign aid. Their productive forces multiply by simply moving locations, sometimes dramatically; A manual laborer that moves from Haiti or Afghanistan can earn up to 20 times what he made doing exactly the same job in the United States.

Besides, the idea that knowledge is static and is completely untransferable is incorrect. Many companies in China , and much of the tech sector in India started because of the foreign funding made possible by the diaspora. Overseas chinese helped jumpstart Deng's industrialization plan due to their knowledge gained abroad and funding.

More to the point, would you not say that the benefit is the change in life of the immigrants themselves? Leaving aside all cultural issues, if we delve into theoretical scenarios, there are many radical (liberal) economists say that world be over two times as richer if freedom of movement and labor was enacted worldwide, due to the massive increase in productivity workers in more destitute countries would gain.
economist.com/the-world-if/2017/07/13/a-world-of-free-movement-would-be-78-trillion-richer

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while I understand the housework argument, Isn't the division of labor that the cult of domesticity engerndered actually increase efficieny? This whole idea of dividing housework between man and wife not only creates huge conflicts but it also as I see it decreases deficiency at which housework and childrearing is done. Its literally the worst of both worlds.

Thats because foreign aid in its form is shit. It is often food aid and things like that, not aid to build productive capability. Of course sending money to the population directly is more effective than giving rice or giving money to corrupt bourgeois governments.

And if there were to take their family with them, their cost of living would also rise 20 times. Their lives would be better, sure, because other goods are cheaper, but in the end they would still be effectively working on near poverty levels.

Massive funding also came from non-diaspora. No capitalist does things altruistically, a capitalist being chinese does not make them magically willing to throw money at china, at most they will understand the culture better and be more comfortable investing their money. Migration does not have much meaningfull impact on the host country, there are many places all over the world with diaspora whose home country are still dirt poor. India and china industrialized because of government policies, not because of altruistic former inhabitants.

The number of immigrants themselves are smaller than the population growth in said countries themselves. Transplanting a part of the population does not solve any structural inequalities, the small gains for the individual immigrants themselves far outweigh the negative impact mass migration has.

That makes absolutely no sense at all. Productive forces are not build and then not used. All means of production are already operated by workers, there is a set amount of jobs in them. Doubling the number of workers does not make them doubly productive, they will have to compete over the same jobs, just like bringing women into the labour force did not double the wealth of working families. Saying that everybody would be magically richer overall if there were no borders is a simple lie meant to encourage mass migration.

By the way I cannot read your bourgoies article because of a paywall, but let me point out the subtitle is already hilarious
Ah yes, "disruptive". A bit of an understatement here. How are you going to bribe the vast right wing fascist movements that will spring up like we already see in europe in response to the migrant crisis, if you crank it up to 9000? We aren't going to see a magical increase in wealth, especially not for the workers, we are going to see ethnic cleansing on a scale of world war two or worse.

How does deviding the housework between men and women create "huge conflicts"?
Also if you only care about efficiency, then you might want to reevaluate being leftist in any sense of the word. Marxism explicitly talks about how more and more division of labour alienates people from both the product of their labour and from each other. We as leftists do not support anything in the name of efficiency.
Not that in the modern day and age, cleaning a floor or feeding a child is a matter of "efficiency", it takes vastly less time than it used to.

ITT: /lefty pol/ proves it really is just Zig Forums with red flags.

Here's the article in case you want to read it btw
archive.is/CXzWM
I thought it was interesting to get another perspective on the issue of immigration that wasn't based simply on cultural issues, islam scaremongering or moralism

Nice contribution, really doesnt say anything.

Oh boy I can already tell this article is a heap of shit, I will enjoy going over it. Thanks for sharing.