Leaving the (internet) left

I can understand your frustration coz Americans but why give up entirely? Why can't you just bide your time?

Imagine becoming a reactionary because you get banned on twitter.

Riperoo

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You don't own communism. It's not going away. In fact it's coming closer each day. If you died tomorrow communism will still be there. It's an idea beyond material existence. Though some sort of socialism is the obvious best form of political economy, your desire for philosophical hegemony sounds like it helps you escape feeling disturbed. When you suddenly possess an inherent right to govern socialism or prosecute """"undesirable"""" socialists. It makes you feel like a strong brutal warrior of the movement. This helps you to feel anger instead of unhappiness. The blame is the result of you not being able to find solutions or enjoy being angry about no solution. What gives you the right to accuse others of being bad members of the movement? The fury I feel of the wealthy both having a right to exist and govern over society while exploiting it reminds me of that attitude.

cynicism is easy, no one expects anything until it happens. New modes of production will arise. Stop talking like a boomer. Life cannot be wasted because it does not matter. I am on the left not to affiliate myself with anyone, but to identify my beliefs.

HLR did not say that
He’s just not going to be as political irl or online
Shit happens and I’m sad to see him go

nice viral marketing for rick and morty S4

Why do people still do this in [current year]?
There's an even easier explanation: Western proles have little reason to rise up. Being a "professional" revolutionary doesn't pay. Things have to get real bad before people consider rising up. Think civil- or world war bad.

As for peasants vs proles: One thing that distinguishes proles from peasants is that the latter were somewhat self-sufficient, and could join a revolution without having to worry about there being no food on the table.
Urban proles don't have that luxury: If they don't sell their labor power, they starve. Once they rise up, supply chains collapse and there's no way for them to return to their farms or live off the land.

Yes the horror of people joining a mass movements out of self-interest. Have you ever considered that your movements have nothing of value to offer to people?

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I'm sorry you're having a mental breakdown. Start meditating and talk to God about your problems. You will feel rejuvenated and answers will come to you.

I completely agree.

This is literally the "proles are dumb" argument.

Not to mention it was actually the industrial proles that started and ended the russian revolution. The farms weren't collectivized on a grand scale untill Stalin.

Please never leave again The quality drop was noticeable

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Good riddance.

Who are you?

who the fuck are you

What a fucking childish series of hot takes.
Nothing of substance. Just the disappointment that your infantile expectation that you 'activism' would lead to revolution anyday now, that you're making a difference. Well guess what you aren't making a difference, you aren't bringing the revolution any closer. Now if you were a marxist you would know that the masses are the driving force of history and that the masses drive history forward when the material conditions dictate it. That revolution emerges out of crisis in the current order.
But your view takes no account of history, takes no account of material conditions, an entirely idealistic conception of revolutionary socialism. Something which isn't surprising given your garbage hot takes on philosophy.
No one gives a shit whether you're doing your 'activism' work or not, no one is expecting you to dedicate yourself 'to the cause'. You're not fucking Lenin and no one is expecting you to be so don't treat your intention to focus on your own daily life as some big revelation. The masses don't need you, won't need you. I'm being fucked by porky everyday. I'm being fucked by landlords everyday. So is everyone i know. Socialism is the one hope that one day i'll be able to work for a better future and not just to reproduce the same daily existence. Don't blame the proles for your lack of ideological education. You've only yourself to blame.

Zig Forums here, should have happened sooner, see the Light/Right.

Dont leave bruv. We still need to make cybernetic communism real.

It must be hard to be a communist in the most class cucked country on earth. But this defeatism attitude does nothing but harm the left so rude sage.

Fully agree.
Seems like a case where a youngster is disappointed when a struggle spanning several centuries doesn't culminate exactly on the moment he wishes it to.
But things do not work like that. The masses surrender their allegiance, or non-action against, the status-quo the second it seems that the current system cannot provide for them and another order might.

Considering the perpetual cycle of crises and semi-feigned recoveries capitalism causes and how it eventually corrupts all restrictions and barriers which attempt to set limits this, it is only a matter of time, even without the falling rate of profit, when there comes a fuck-up which is simply too large for the hoi polloi to accept. The pressure has been slowly mounting, looking at the news from the past few years. Criticizing capitalism and suggesting alternatives has become all the more common both on- and off-line.

Since capitalism seems to be is incapable of limiting this destructive process, the concentration of wealth and power, and the universalization of squalor for profit (for the first world in the US for example), a revolutionary failure is unwanted yet ultimately irrelevant. There will always be a second chance.
Naturally one needs to organize and prepare for the moment the opportunity arises and "second chances" should not be taken for granted and wasted, but as long as capitalism is capitalism, it will breed its own enemies and will cultivate the seeds of its own destruction.

Oh fuck off.

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This right here. Believing that people living in good conditions would ever rise up and try to remove the government is naive as fuck. It even goes against what material conditions tell us about human behavior.
The HLR faggot claims he didn't do it for his own self-interest, which is highly unlikely, considering that he now has become apolitical. He probably did it because he wanted to make himself feel important. He wanted to leave a mark on the world, and when he saw it wasn't possible he stopped caring. Even if you don't care anymore, doesn't mean that your political alignment changes. Unless the reason you had a political alignment was feeling self-important.

what did he mean by this?

But they are, right now at least.

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PoC animals hate you and want to eat the skin off of your bones

Yes I do
I bought it off some guy with a huge nose called Isaac

HLR,

You may not care about the class struggle but the class struggle cares about you. If you're feeling burned out then it's good to take a step back. But remember - there is no quitting. The oligarchs, the capitalists, the bankers - they are not quitting. They will continue to squeeze this world until they have bled it dry and ruined the rest of humanity in the process. It is not possible to quit the game. To quit the struggle is to surrender.

Your main point of frustration seems to be that the great masses of people are stupid, passive, and shallow. This is probably true. People can be fucking terrible. But we need to base our praxis around reality. And the reality is that 90% of people are observers and not participants. This is as true of imageboards as it is in real life. In any real struggle it's a fight between small minorities on either side. The great masses of people will simply watch, choosing to act only out of opportunism and self-interest. This is neither good nor bad but simply the way things are.

Now, if we accept that a majority of people are largely passive by nature it means that we don't need to win over the large masses of people. If we build solid organizations we can win the fight against capitalism with a small vanguard and a lot of organization and willpower. This isn't a popular viewpoint these days because people accuse it of being "voluntarist." But I think that word is bullshit. A revolution is an act of will. All successful revolutions have depended more on the willpower and morale of the revolutionaries rather than any kind of material conditions. Waiting for "good material conditions" is itself a proxy for waiting for conditions to be bad enough to motivate someone to engage in revolution.

This leads me to my next point. It seems passé in the modern left, but we need to rebuild this movement by thinking seriously about morale, attitude, and how to behave to one another. We need to offer mutual support and the spirit of comradeship. People would accuse this of sounding utopian, but I believe it is necessary for any successful movement to focus on our relations with each other. Why did the Nazis become a popular party? By convincing ordinary people that they were not alone, forgotten, or abandoned. The comradeship or gemeinschaft within the Nazi movement was the #1 reason why people joined. On the left today we suffer from exclusionary politics due to idpol and sectarianism, as well as holier-than-thou virtue signalling. This is the opposite of what we need.

Marx was wrong about a few things. But his overall theory was correct. Capitalism will destabilize. A revolution will occur. The only thing we can't see is whether this revolution leads to democratic socialism or an Orwellian nightmare. I would prefer to work for the former, in whatever small ways I can.

Finally, thank you for trying to organize people. I know it may not have worked out like you hoped, but this is a learning experience. Next time you organize a march you'll know to give the speeches before and not after.

Good luck comrade.

I know that this is somewhat unrelated, but every now and again I wonder if the proletariat isn't the class that will overthrow the capitalist mode of production, the same way that it wasn't peasants who put an end to feudalism. There were all sorts of peasant revolts over the course of hundreds of years, but they were never capable of bringing about a new society, despite many holding what most people would recognize as bourgeois-democratic values. Similarly, pre-modern slave revolts were insufficient to abolish slavery, since they were not able to create a sufficiently different economic order, and at best could set back the accumulation of slaves by a few years. This is no reason to give up, of course, merely something to consider.

I warned you about activism

I told you dog

Join the club my friend. I went from being a ML of 6 years to withdrawing from all political groups/communities/activities. During 2015-2016 I genuinely thought the overbearing IdPol was going to be toned down, but instead liberals rebranded as leftists after the election and have taken over. Every leftist gathering place is now 90% Feminism/Trans/Ableism/Racism/SexWorkism/Whateverism talk.

The only thing I care about now is achieving personal happiness, and I'm doing that by pursing a promising career that's going to pay me a lot of money. I am no longer voting in any elections whatsoever whether national or local.

Leftism in this nation is a futile endeavour and I no longer want to be part of a movement that's filled to the brim with parasites who are using leftism as a social climbing ladder.

You can take a break if you need one. You dont need to be active to hold leftist ideas. I share your frustrations but the problem isnt that the situation is hopeless (though it is definitely pretty grim) but that that method of organizing you describe is a dead end. Marches and protests and rallies mean nothing without the support of the actual poor and working class, as you have pointed out, but that doesnt mean give up on the poor and working class, it means that you need to directly engage with their communities by finding out what they need and helping them acquire it. In places where people have trouble getting food you start to set up a network to get them food, you dont try to use their desperation to get them to sign up for the party newspaper. People see right through that opportunism.

smh

It doesn't matter what you do. Only through atomic fire can Capitalism be abolished. Posadas was right.
That being said, can you bring your channel back, for archival purposes?

But proles are dumb.

Bro you still need to transfer your admin right on the discord.

You sound just like me when I 'fell out' of Socialism ~6 years ago, even down to the weariness of the internal political aspect to left wing groups and the static nature of the proletariat.
As such I can only assume that similar to me of the time, you are going through a depressive period and have lost the 'spark' needed to really believe in a better tomorrow.
Just from my own experience on the matter, I can promise you that such feelings pass; Yet the essential, altruistic desire to improve the world for all will always return for anyone that was ever a real 'true believer' in Socialism.
I'm not saying that you will or even should return to socialism (beyond a liking for De Leonism, I never did) but that altruistic desire will return after some time and when it does I would ask that you do what I did at the time and explore alternatives to socialism.

I fell in love with Technocracy only a scant few months after leaving the Communist party I was a member of for several years.
Technocracy took everything that was fundamentally important to me about socialism (anti-capitalism, technological progress, improving the lives of all etc) yet was lacking the sort of depressive id-pol and historical baggage that socialism possessed.
My own contribution of a military coup as a way to gain sovereignty even cuts out any need to rely upon the the ever passive proles.
The fact of the matter is that I would not be the man I am today if it were not for my period as a leftist and subsequent disillusion with socialism; It changed me for the better.

My point is that I'm sure this 'apolitical' desire will quickly pass for you; I have been there.
When it does, I hope that you will return.

Oh god, now there'll be two of them

BEGONE THOT

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Shouldn't have shit talked philosophy cunt.

Jesus that sounds like a cluster fuck. It's like trying to organize the bourgeoisie parts of Florida. The whole island is basically a tourist trap and I guarantee a lot of the leftist moved from elsewhere. You probably had more of a chance organizing the natives or people who worked in the hospitality industry rather than a bunch of white people with property

There are indigenous Hawaiians whom you should be organizing against settler-colonialism.

Even though Sakai got stuck up his own ideological asshole and he was probably a CIA agent he had a point with settler-colonialism mentality as much as I hate to say it as a whiteboi

Useless and pointless. If you ever "leave" the left, then you were never a leftist to begin with. Kindly, fuck off. I don't trust you.

Isnt that what religious cults say?

Lmao, a trostkyist faggot redpilling a defeatist shill.
What have I become, my dear friend. Everyone I love, goes away
IN THE END

The difference's that religious cults rely on feels/lunatism. A union of people fighting in their interest is not. OP sounds to me like a shill.

TBH fam, I detest the term "settler colonialism" just because it's anti-universalist as fuck.

Plus, Hawaii's population is primarily Japanese and Filipinos, not whites.

But surely getting to the afterlife / taking off in a spaceship or whatever is fighting on your own interests?

Are the native Americans guilty of settler colonialism against sabre tooth tigers?

How about the Aboriginal Australians? Did they comitt settler colonialism against the giant marsupials which used to roam that particular continent?

wel that is something new

I was mostly talking about mainland USA but in this context you are correct. A shitton of Hawaii's population is from elsewhere which makes it harder to organize broad working class support.
Also anyone who has read Marx would come to the conclusion that landowning white settlers back in the day had clearly different class interests than natives, slaves, and non-land owning white. Sakai paints a picture where there is no such thing as a white proletariat which is fundamentally ahistorical and immaterial.

To a certain extent yes but most native tribes were nomadic so they never really settled in one given location except maybe a few tribes. Mass migrations are apart of human development and evolution

Getting to the afterlife is as much on your interest as attempting to become a cosmic magical planet busting werewolf.

Bookchin made the observation that the working class today is different from back then because it's now normal that working class people have working class ancestors, it seems to be just the way it is. A hundred or even fifty years ago it was far more common for a working-class person to have parents or at least grand parents with a peasant background, so people were more likely to consider that they or at least their kids might see a big change.

I can relate. Things that piss me off about the youth in my "left" party: How accommodating everybody is to bourgie kids (I mean that not in the sense of somebody wearing expensive shoes, but that they accept people who are literally the offspring of the ruling class). How hard they make it for people who aren't students to participate (not in the sense of "hurr me dumb worker no understand big wordz", but in the sense that they make zero effort to move anything important to days/hours when people in the group with jobs could be available). How anti-intellectual they are, while paradoxically presenting themselves as intellectuals. Theory is done by context-free quote-mining of the approved writers in that section of the ideology tree leading to the leaf that is our group. They never actually investigate a fucking thing. They don't care about fleshing out alternatives. They are so fucking pretentious.
And most motivating fact: Some of the young ones look at me as the weirdo because they themselves see what they do as a silly fun phase they will grow out of. Barf. I've been in a left party for a decade and a union for half a decade. The union did more in a year than the party in a decade. The real left is in the unions.

People don't like donating money to a cause because money is too versatile and a cause is too vague and abstract, so the risk that people do whatever with donations is too high. It's different when the donation is either money for a tangible object or what is donated is that person donating their own time. Example: You ask for money for education in some poor country. "Education" is abstract, nobody donates. But suppose you ask for money to buy a MOTORCYCLE for your IWW rep in Uganda, you show them a photo of the bike, so everybody can picture a guy driving through Uganda with that bike waving the IWW flag. (IIRC that turned out to be a scam and the man was never heard of again, but anyway, point is: He got the money.)

Join. A. Union. I cannot emphasize enough how much going on a mini-strike now and then does for my happiness. Manager says something mildly arrogant. Union guy: "That is offensive, we are all offended!" (Most people didn't even listen, actually.) A loud whistle! And you get home two hours earlier.

Hi HLR. Much of what you said I can sympathize with.

I find a lot of good replies already.

Solidarity, as always.

The fuck is this idealist bullshit. Get off the board, faggot.

^^

...

In practice, decolonization will be anti-universalist and ethnocentric. Have you ever spoken to "indigenists" before? They are no different from Zionists, except they play the emotional blackmail game even harder.

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You don't have to support fascism-from-below to call a spade a spade.

Something tells me you don't know your Freud.

Yes, and I'm calling decolonization anti-unversalist, because it is. Let's assume these indigenists get what they want: what would it really entail for the majority of the working class (who happen to be white)? Would it really make the quality of life go up, or would it just mean a Pol Pot scenario?

I don't support decolonization for the same reasons you don't. I just think it's ridiculous to dislike a term that accurately describes the actions of colonialist states because some dumb fucks glommed onto the term.

Ron Placone likes the idea of market socialism and decentralizing or cooperativizing utilities (like wireless mesh networks, electricity, etc)

youtube.com/watch?v=QpTgmVk4ztA

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how strange it must be to be this weak-willed.

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mao lost as bad as hitler

You're just a man without a country right now.

Here's the thing: jaded, experienced individuals who grasped the "sociology" of radical movements through experience, observation and intuition, who learned about all the bullshit motives people have to adhere to left-wing causes, and who feel like they could fix things if given the opportunity, are absolutely essential to Socialism.

When any decent organization operates, things like that need to be taken into account. You need to be able to look at people and immediately grasp how serious they are, and what they're able to do. You need to know what could possibly create damage and infighting, and how to avoid it. You need to know different demographics respond to different messages, and adjust things accordingly. Good organizers and strategists like Engels and Sverdlov had those skills, and made sure everything, from the zeal of neophytes to the cynical self-interest of political careerists were employed correctly and the right limits were placed on their influence. See, they weren't frustrated with people who thought they could "use" Socialism for their own ends, because they knew how to use those people's intentions as well.

With some experience, some organizational skills and some networking, this is the role someone with your mentality should be playing. The problem is that there is no role like that in the political game you're on. You're wasting your fucking time with Trots, with a little blog where you try to advance radical politics from a vaccuum, with cringeworthy "theoretical" debates with a self-seriousness that seems inversely proportional with the actual impact and intellectual relevance of the debate.

What you should be doing is going to a place where regular people are, as much of a dead horse as it seems. I'm not american so I don't know what it is in your case, but if there's a small chance that you get to be part of the Left in an union or whatever, do it. If there's a nascent left-wing party where you are, be part of it and play the career game as well. Get yourself in a position of influence and you'll be able to both worry about what's good for you, and what's good for the translation of your principles into reality. Stop wasting your time trying to make something out of thin air, this isn't the fucking 1860s, being a noble "powerless revolutionary" is for kids. You have to move on from that dumb stage, not abandon politics altogether.

Take my advice, man. I'm on a similar position and I share many of your concerns and wrote about them here extensively. I'm pushing 30 and feel the need to move to something less retarded as well, but I've also been a Socialist for half my life, and I know what type of person throws the towel and you're not it. People who become apolitical don't make speeches about what is wrong, they just fuck off because deep down they just don't care. Just having all this initiative and all this insight means you have some potential, and you're wasting that potential trying to materialize your idea of what radical politics is like with fringe groups. You're sharing spaces with the lolicon twitter avatars that you talk about, and that's why you're unhappy.

If you want to talk just email me.

Send nudes

hot take

At what point does one not become a settler-colonial though? Were the Arabs "settler-colonials" when they invaded Iberia and established one of the most progressive societies in human history?

Who are you and literally who cares?

No

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K

I don't identify with "leftism", I just consider the socialists and communists right and defenders of le market to be wrong, and lately socialists - the socialists who actually know what they're talking about, anyway - have been the only people talking sense. It's a pity there isn't going to be a revolution and that we're in for a future of total shit, but there isn't much to be done at this point. Humanity has essentially chosen this path - and I don't think it's just a matter of brainwashing, in the case of the proles.

literally who

Capitalism's downfall doesn't give a shit about your feelings. It might still last 20-30 years but I genuinely believe shit is massively going to hit the fan, maybe not on the little utopian island of Hawaii, but somewhere else. India perhaps. All the Lolicon avaters and IdPolyps will be washed away by a wave of revolutionary wrath.

We don't live in the best world. Shit has been going downhill since ten years now. I mean, get real there for a second: What the fuck did you expect in fucking Hawaii? Of course the island is going to be packed with boomer hippie artists!

100% this. Being a western prole is life on easy mode. Imperialist found the ultimate model for exploitation. When you make minor concessions people close enough to destroy you they become pacified. Prols are rising up against imperialism all the time, they just don't have the military power to win. Western prols are the prison gaurds not the prisoners. Communism will never happen in the states until the empire falls. I guarantee that.

Yes

Revolutions are waged by people with the means and the motive to fight them.

holy fuck this isn't real is it?

Oh it's real, user.

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NO! DON'T LEAVE!

Literally everyone else on left tube hates me and now I'll be all alone!

WHY?!?!

What did you expect in fucking Hawaii? Is there even an actual proletariat there? What's the biggest industry there? Fucking tiki torches and colourful shirts?

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DemSoc likes you. 95% of left tube has sold out, you and DemSoc havn't (yet). Just keep making videos, your last ones were good, and you'll have a fanbase no matter what the other cunts say.

Make a new video faggot

Somebody needs to send them Vivek Chibber.

This is fascism for Indians.

I've literally never heard of you. Your life story was so goddamn boring I didn't even read the whole thing. I hope you make the right decision and never come back, because you are just a snivelling, useless fuck. Jesus fucking Christ I hate namefags.

If you've ever had a chat with the average radical aboriginal that's the impression you get. While nationalism can be progressive and aid class struggle at times, there is something deeply reactionary about indigenous nationalism, it's focus on "returning to the land" and it's respect for tribal authority make it perfect for something like "eco-fascism" to become popular in those circles (I've actually met an Indian eco-fascist before on discord once), indigenous nationalism is very much of the "blood and soil" variety.

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HunterXHunter has it

Are you leaved yet?