/cuba/ -- Cuba General Thread

Thread for discussion of the Republic of Cuba.


To start the discussion what are you opinions on the current president of Cuba Miguel Díaz-Canel?

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Other urls found in this thread:

revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/fidel-castro-and-the-cuban-revolution
revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/in-defense-of-che-guevara-analyzing-his-life-and-answering-his-critics
revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/cuba-today-the-question-of-markets-reform-and-the-future-of-cuba
brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2018/04/16/u-s-cuban-relations-are-about-to-get-worse/
havanatimes.org/?p=133797
history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1958-60v06/d499
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1888/free-trade/
telesurtv.net/english/news/Cuba-Raul-Castro-Appointed-Head-of-Constitutional-Reform-Commission-20180602-0010.html
mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1IY0D5?__twitter_impression=true
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

FULL CYBERCOMMUNISM
In all seriousness, I don't know that much about him. He may be a revisionist, or he may not.

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Cuba, sadly, is in need of liberalisation of the economy, if the sanctions don't get lifted soon, Cuba will inevitabily break. Cuba can'T develop because of these and if it doesn'T develop it wont be able to supply to the needs of the people. I hope they allow a margain private sector and special economic zones for trading and development so the countries economy gets boosted and to succsesfully supply to the needs of the people and raise lifing standarts. It's the only way out. The DoTP and the CPC should stay of course. The Main mode of production should still be socialist

Don't they already have these things though?

yeah, but really really really small. Like restaurants or barber shop, they don't really contribute much to the GDP

Take that hat off, Gorbatschow

Revolutionary Left Radio has done a few episodes on Cuba:

Fidel Castro and the Cuban Revolution
revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/fidel-castro-and-the-cuban-revolution

In Defense of Che Guevara: Analyzing his Life and Answering his Critics
revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/in-defense-of-che-guevara-analyzing-his-life-and-answering-his-critics

Cuba Today: The Question of Markets, Reform, and the Future of Cuba
revolutionaryleftradio.libsyn.com/cuba-today-the-question-of-markets-reform-and-the-future-of-cuba

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Sorry man, but Cuba will collapse if it doesn't has some kind of economic growth and devlopement. The Sanctions from the US are hitting them hard. They can't supply the peoples needs if this continues

If they managed in the past with harsher sanctions, why wouldn't they now? You are literally spouting "muh stagnant collapsing inefficient socialism" propaganda.

Cuba is like 60% catholic which makes cuba ChristCom which is really epic and based

Remindrr all leftypolitarians should be sending the President of Cuba copies of TANS theough their embassies.

a latin american country colapsing? NOOOOOO, next you'll tell me is that the us is a little bit militaristic, truth is this is all normal, latin america is always at the brink of colapse, i'm telling you this as a spic myself, constant crippling unending crisis is the latam way of life, so excuse me if i don't break my sweat at these news

I mean they're getting insificnant problems now, thats why they've implemented those economic reforms. They are not really in a good state rn and they are being forced to opening the economny

Cuba, along Vietnam and the USSR are by far (or was, in the case of the USSR) the most badass socialist states to exist.

We need a Dengist flag.

Deng was great and all but he didn't have a theory of his own. He realized the economic problems in China and developed a plan to get out of it and advance into a higher stage of socialism. He developed socialist development for China (this can be of course applied to other socialist countries with extremely economic deficiencies, like Vietnam or Laos)

"Capitalism Socialism with Chinese Characteristics" was his revision invention

Very well thought argument you got there buddy

Lenin hat is clearly a retard but that doesn't make him wrong about this. Socialism clearly works, but I can't imagine the sanctions are letting it work. Privatization is shit, but I think a little privatization is clearly worth lifting the sanctions. It's clearly not cut and dry "more Communism" like 90%+ of the issues here.

Cuba has and still works fine despite the sanctions, there's literally no fucking reason why it would suddenly crash because of it. They haven't spent half a century sitting on their thumbs waiting for the US to give them stuff, they've adapted to it. Besides being largely autarkic, they simply trade with countries which are willing to do so. Canada, China, Venezuela, Spain and the Netherlands are the biggest trade partners IIRC. If reactionaries take over Venezuela and/or Canda that's possibly one trade partner less, but it still has plenty to rely on. Especially China, Spain and (surprisingly) the Netherlands are unlikely to jump ship in trading with Cuba.

delusional


Cuba already privatized barber shops. Maybe look up what you're talking about.

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I have a question: why isn't the US harassing cuba as it used to be? i know there are sanctions on them but still why isn't the US trying to completely annihilate them Like iraq or Afghanistan? is the US just too busy with the DPRK or They just got tired of trying?

I mean as president Trump has been engaging in a more hostile policy with Cuba. I think previous admins had hoped it would engage in revisionism, but since it is now even undoing its marketisation thay has failed. The reason they can't invade is simple: they would lose. Cuba has structures designed to prevent US invasion, and the PCC is immensely popular still.

Cuba needs dengism

Because there is the worrying development over the past 2 decades or so of Cuba surpassing America in things like healthcare and education which the US can't counteract with bullshit propaganda like in the past. So I believe they avoid slandering Cuba else US proles will start reflecting on Burgerland's own deficiencies.

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Because Cuba is full revisionist now and keeps liberalizing their markets. No reason for US to be hostile to them anymore.

They tightened the embargo about 3 months ago and people expect it to get even worse.

brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2018/04/16/u-s-cuban-relations-are-about-to-get-worse/

You are not funny, handsome, or smart. Your mother is a liar.

old Cuban exile community is dying off. they were a strong force in Floridian and by extension national politics

do u even dialectics

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thats what iam saying, though?


Their GDP declined and they are mostly struggling for advancing socialism you need massive developmend of the productice forces and Cuba can'T manage that right now this is the problem

also this

Their GDP declined in the 90s because of the collapse of the soviet bloc, the embargo is still a massive thorn in the side of their economy but it has been growing fine since the 2000s.

You are disgusting.
You should just turn into a fucking liberal or kill yourself and I seriously mean it.

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can lenin hat ever recover against such compelling arguments?

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Diaz-Canel seems based. He was in Venezuela today. Apparently he was opposed to the market reforms and also wants to legalise gay marriage. Seems okay in my book.

Seriously considering

So you're asking for an expansion of the private sector? You're even worse than I thought.
Their GDP growth is fine. You are also too hung up on "development of productive forces". Cuba is an island nation with limited resources. They could stretch their ass wide open for foreign investment (like the IMF and World Bank has forced on many african countries) and all that will happen is a wholesale looting of the country by international capital.
I know this is hard for right-deviationist "socialists" to understand but capitulating to the US won't benefit Cuba.

Looking forward to you backing up your shit with Marx quotes.

Ive Ultimately got little issues with cuba allowing a small controlled Private sector in the way it does to help pave over some of the cracks in its otherwise planned model
I dont mind small cornerstores / Restaurants etc as a large amount of these are family owned and thus Exploitation is limited / Not Present
I also dont mind the legalization of private taxis as these are operated by single individuals Being their own boss and doing all the work themselves

But i fully reject the idea of Cuba choosing the Chinese Path and Opening its ass to every porky on earth in the name of Productive forces

I truly hope that the Rumors about Miguel Being Conservative / Anti-Market is true

havanatimes.org/?p=133797

Press P to piss on grave

P

Right-wing gusanos seem to be among the absolute worst fucking garbage that humanity has produced

P

No we don't, we need "dengists" to leave the board

For anyone who hasn't seen this before:
history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1958-60v06/d499

499. Memorandum From the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs (Mallory) to the Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs (Rubottom)
Washington, April 6, 1960.

Salient considerations respecting the life of the present Government of Cuba are:

1. The majority of Cubans support Castro (the lowest estimate I have seen is 50 percent).
2. There is no effective political opposition.
3. Fidel Castro and other members of the Cuban Government espouse or condone communist influence.
4. Communist influence is pervading the Government and the body politic at an amazingly fast rate.
5. Militant opposition to Castro from without Cuba would only serve his and the communist cause.
6. The only foreseeable means of alienating internal support is through disenchantment and disaffection based on economic dissatisfaction and hardship.

If the above are accepted or cannot be successfully countered, it follows that every possible means should be undertaken promptly to weaken the economic life of Cuba. If such a policy is adopted, it should be the result of a positive decision which would call forth a line of action which, while as adroit and inconspicuous as possible, makes the greatest inroads in denying money and supplies to Cuba, to decrease monetary and real wages, to bring about hunger, desperation and overthrow of government.

The principal item in our economic quiver would be flexible authority in the sugar legislation. This needs to be sought urgently. All other avenues should likewise be explored. But first, a decision is necessary as to the line of our conduct. Would you wish to have such a proposal prepared for the Secretary?

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Both Cuba and China are overtly capitalist, the only differences between them is their level of state involvement in the economy

this board is meant to discuss the failings of capital, not ulterior modes of economic development or management schemes for capital. If you are interested in these things, then you can always become a neololberal and drop the act

And so, the proletarian movement must be international. Any push for "socialism in one country" will always degenerate into a glorified development plan, or turn into authoritarian social democracy. Beyond this, when can we agree that Socialism is not new management over the same economic processes, and should be viewed as Marx intended, as an association of free and equal producers? To go against this leaves us open to the bastardization of the true revolutionary goals of the Communist project by Kautskyites and other cretinous right-deveationists like leninposter, framing it all in the lens of bourgeois economisms.

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>>>Zig Forums
>>>/anarcho/

A little bit easier said than done. American communists being a bunch of useless LARPers is something the Cuban revolutionaries didn't have any control over, but they did what they could to improve their situation. If you can take power you fucking do it. Nothing will ever happen if we just sit around waiting for an international communist revolution to fall down from the sky.

Ah, so production for exchange is no longer in effect, and money has been replaced with other forms of accounting? I can understand the argument that Cuba is still trying, but China?

Yes
No

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...

So revolution is not determined by the inherent contradictions of capital, but happens when we all just really want it?

Exactly my point

Both matter, obviously. The contradictions of capital is what makes socialism possible and necessary in the first place, but revolutions require conscious action by a large group of people. There's also no reason to believe revolution should happen spontaneously all around the world at the same time. Uneven development is inherent in the system of global capitalism, and history has shown that revolution happens at the "weakest link".

If you really believe in this deterministic vulgar materialism, then what is even the point of saying "the proletarian movement must be international" like it's something we have control over? Doesn't make sense to me.

That's not how revolutions work you dipshit, for a revolutions to happen you need to conditions to be met

1. there must be a revolutionary potential and a need for a revolution(which is caused by the contradictions of capital and material conditions)

2. there must be a party or an organization which takes this revolutionary potential and turns it into a revolution(which will happen by subjective effort and not objective conditions)

Revolutions have both an objective side and a subjective side, You can't just say that revolutions are caused purely by material conditions nor can you say that they happen out of purely subjective effort. revolutionary potential is not equivalent to revolution because it needs to be utilized by a party or an organization to make a revolution which certainly does take subjective effort. Here's an analogy that i hope makes things clearer: you eat when you're hungry(1st condition) and when you're able to eat(2nd condition), you get hungry because of material conditions but in order to eat you need to make some subjective effort, the action of eating doesn't magically happen when you get hungry you need to put at least some minimum amount of subjective will and effort to actually eat.

I'm back
I never said that there was no organisation in the proletarian movement, it's that this organisation will happen spontaneously, and is inherently tied to the conditions of the time. Modern Leninist party builders are a joke in the first world, and amount to nothing other then glorified larp sessions. If you honestly think your pathetic paperboy routine is going to bring revolution, then you are sorely mistaken. Even fucking fascists occasionally take up techniques used by Marxists for organizing their followers and answering the crisis of capital (unions, state intervention). This just goes to show that, when a question is poised to us by capital, the answer is relatively the same, regardless of ideology.
This is a pretty stupid comparison, and doesn't really add to my point made in
which was that this idea that we need to go out now and "make revolution" is silly at best, and opportunistic at worst
this is a complete misrepresentation of my point
2/10 made me reply

And those material conditions do not presuppose this consciousness?
Capital punishes and organizes the work force globally in a relatively similar manner. There is such thing as imperial exploitation, but as capitalism rots more and more, we should see the whole sale proletarianiztion of the globe. Workers from the third world will be on equal standing with workers from the first, in which case, world revolution would be inevitable.
History offers a mixed bag in that instance. Some cases of third world Socialism show successes in bettering peoples lives, while others amount to nothing more then a slightly more authoritarian form of capitalist development
It's not so much me feeling it must be repeated, but just me stating what should be obvious from history.
No, it is the condition for the absolute destruction of capitalism. All those revolutions that do not bring this about, well…I struggle to see them as being anything more then an interesting historical footnote on the do's and don'ts of revolution.

Of course Cuba needs to expand they're private sector. They need to do it for surving. Saying they're doing just fine while their GDP doesn't rise is fucking delousional


Alright, I know you Anarchists have a lot of experience in building long lasting Socialism


It is always a risk to take especially for a situation China was in, because China had really big problems with underdevelopment and poverty. But Cuba doesnt have that, they wouldn't need to liberalize as much as China did. Also it worked out pretty well for China, they are the a socialist superpower


Both are socialist

China is capitalist, this is objective if we are going by the definition of capitalism. Cuba can be argued to be "impure" capitalism, but still operates along it's lines. Until money and markets are done away with, it's hard to call anything "socialist", especially such a large capitalist economy like China.

They ought drop the whole facade then and just become a liberal democracy. I actually agree with you (though it pains me say) that unless we have an honest world shift towards socialism, then this will be the fate of Cuba, along with all the other failed ML experiments of the past.

Lmao do you also think people get class consciousness spontaneously? do think people will just stockpile guns and ammunition spontaneously? do you think people will just train themselves spontaneously? do you think people will stop being reactionary spontaneously? do you think fascists will go away spontaneously? This is the stupidest thing that i keep hearing from leftcoms like you, it takes discipline and party work to organize, it takes a lot of propaganda work to actually spread class consciousness and combat reactionary thought, it takes money and funding to buy and stockpile weapons, it takes organization, funding and time to train people and it takes a high level discipline and organization to combat fascism. all of these things above cannot be done spontaneously(although i don't deny it is possible for people to organize spontaneously however this is very rare and requires a high level of class consciousness which doesn't exist in many countries), but leftcoms like you just throw the word spontaneously so that they can avoid party work because they're a lazy fuckers who do nothing but sit on an armchair all day.

The idea that we should just "wait for a revolution" is also equally silly and opportunistic and i already replied to your point there, i said revolutions are not caused purely by material conditions nor happen out of purely subjective effort. and in order for a revolution to happen there needs to be a revolutionary potential and an organization or a party that utilizes, uses and directs this revolutionary potential to build and strengthen its base then the revolution can be launched from this base when the time is right. Europe has little to no revolutionary potential that is why revolution will not happen there on the other hand Africa has a lot of revolutionary potential but it also lacks in organization and that is why there also no revolutions there. if we go by your logic that "revolutions happen because of the contradictions of capital alone" then why isn't Africa flaming in revolutions right now? why aren't they spontaneously organizing themselves? after all the contradictions of capital are at their highest and they're superexploited but yet they don't revolt and this is because they don't have class consciousness and there are no parties or organizations that spreads class consciousness and organize workers and also because there is no solid base from which the revolution can be launched.

How so?

No they don't, people won't magically become class conscious if they're exploited, many working class people(especially in the first world) are in fact reactionary.

Reading those two sentences just made me lose few brain cells.

Private sector isn't good for the economy though. They need to abolish the private sector and have 5 year plans.

Their GDP is rising though, why do you keep saying this? Their HDI is amazing despite low incomes. Google won't give me Cuba's inequality-adjusted HDI, probably because it might be the highest in all of latin america. Cuba is also the only fucking country in the world combining a high living standard with low pollution.
I also don't see why the private sector would do a better job at securing growth than the public sector. You're just regurgitating neoliberal propaganda.
Guillotine yourself my man.


We don't, but the irony here is that ITT we're defending Cuba's legacy while you are supporting capitalist restoration.

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No they don't, they've already survived this far without any major privatization, also their GDP is rising but even if we assume that their GDP isn't rising then i don't see how expanding the private sector will help the economy, it will do more harm than good, it also won't reduce the sanctions.

Not an anarchist, but i do know that dengists have a lot of experience in fucking up already existing socialism

China has large scale commodity production which makes it capitalist, it doesn't matter if they have a lot of state ownership because chinese factories(weather state-owned or privately-owned) produce things for exchange value unlike cuban factories which produce things for use-value not exchange value, also if China is socialist then why aren't they trying to export revolution to other countries? not only that but the Chinese government has been supporting the Philippines government against the maoists.

Cuba is socialist, China is not.

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Fucking end yourself

and I'm back again
Yes?
A more pressing question would be, do you believe the average wage worker in the west is going to ditch their lives to do these acts now?
Come time for a revolution, people will take it upon themselves to organize and train. Their might not even be the need for protracted warfare either; If the Proletariat is in general unison, then revolution will be more an act of usurping the productive forces of society for themselves, effectively locking out the capitalists from the productive process.
that depends on a lot of things. If the left has a coherent and clear project to put forward and offer reactionary workers, then yes. The left in it's current state does not have this.
Since fascists are indeed capitalists, their ideal system should evaporate with the inevitable death of capitalism. Real "Fascists" where very much a thing of the 20th century, and where key to maintaining capitalist power relations then, today, I'd be more worried by the Silicon valley death cult ideology that is contemporary neoliberalism, this seems like the new go to refuge for the Bourgeoisie, most "fascist" are larpers. The Leftcom position (not saying that I am one) on this is often mistaken. Leftcoms aren't saying you shouldn't fight Fascism if you want to, just that it is not good praxis in terms of bringing about Socialism. This view was very much a product of it's time, since the common "popular front" method to opposing fascist regimes in the 20th century, where often plagued by liberals who simply wanted a return to their "democracy". By all means, fight Fascism, just know that you will most likely have to put off the Communist project until you are no longer having to hold congress with liberals. Bordiga's take on this (I'm not well read on the Italian left, so be warned) was that ultimately, even if the Fascists win, they will still inevitably fail, since they would have inherited a capitalist economy, no different from that of a liberal democracy. He saw both the fascists state, and the liberal democracy as being two sides to the same coins. It can almost be argued that the Fascist state is better for having a revolution, since it has dropped all pretenses of being fair and open to every class, and has completely wedded it's self to the interests of the Bourgeoisie, unlike the Democracy, which shelters it'self in this illusion.
Keep trying to justify your LARP group paper boy, maybe one day those silly prols will realize that only you and your mates can be the """TRUE""" vanguards for the establishment of Socialism
Capitalism's failures are propaganda for it's own demise. If the whole "revolutionary propaganda" routine was this effective, then it should have worked in times of capitalist uptick, but it does not. This is because, no matter how much you screech and moan about things you see as being morally wrong, people who are not as emotionally inclined to support this project as you and I, can simply ignore us. Their daily lives are more effected by the totality that is capitalist relations then the passing oddity of some Che wannabe. This also acts against capitalism, for when it inevitably goes through periods of crisis, peoples daily lives are effected by this in such a way, that they have no choice but to face this reality. That is when the left, with a clear diagnosis of the ills that plague the world, will gain followers who, in accordance to their conditions, devise ways to break free of capitalism. I remain somewhat vague when it comes to what organizational strategy we should take, not because I don't want to be wrong, or admit that one is "right", but because I sincerely can't tell you what would work across the board. At heart, I call myself a Councilist, but sometimes I feel that even this is not good enough for a modern revolutionary project. When I say spontaneity, I don't mean it in the sense that revolution will just happen, then we will wake up in Communism, but that, whatever plan we make to escape capitalism and commodity form, will have to be entirely dependent on the circumstances at work at the time.

Now that I'm done with my tangent, back to your cancer post

I was being silly when mentioning the "che wannabe" bit, but this….
I refuse to believe that you honestly believe this. You sound like a child who's brains have been fried by illiterate leftypol memes.
You clearly don't know what that word means
And I never said effort was not nessisary to stage revolution, just that MATERIAL CONDITIONS PRESUPPOSE THIS EFFORT. Holy shit, can you be anymore daft? This reads like your arguing for some kind of epistemological dualism!
So your agreeing with me
No, they lack the material basis to stage revolution. Due to years of imperial exploitation, Africa has been stunted in terms of development, meaning that the base relations between producer and product that can be seen in a late stage capitalist economy have not yet taken form. Their are places where more development has been made, and it is in these places where we do see a Communist movement, take South Africa for instance (though I'm a little here and there when it comes to the EFF).
Read the above point, and stop trying to sound smart, it just comes off as embarrassing.
UUUUUUGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Your assumption that I am against revolutionary actions is absurd

Why are you even on this board? do you just like Marxist aesthetics? At least try and make it ti the reading list
I didn't say they are dipshit, I said as capital develops, we should see the wholesale Proletarianization of the world,
this is not something foreign to Marxists
-F. Engles
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1888/free-trade/
The world is still largely biased off Imperial exploitation, however. Greed on part of the capitalist class is what fuels this. But as capital decays evermore, they will be forced into greater investment in the third world out of expectation of higher profit. This coupled with the lowering of living standards in the west will create the conditions for a global revolt against capital. Nations can also take the state capitalist Chinese rout in development as well but ultimately, the end results are the same

What are the best news sites to get good (i.e. unbiased or pro-Cuban) news in English?

teleSUR probably

Scrolled through quickly and seriously you motherfuckers need to die. Cubans are not your little ant farm where you get to test out your ideology. 11 million people and tens-of-thousands of economic migrants are affected while you live a comfortable first world life and from the comfort and arrogance of your situation dare claim that Cuba and Cubans are okay and all good.

I don't know much about politics or economics but I do know that the current state of Cuba is shit and people struggle to get out to Spain, Mexico, America, or literally anywhere but Cuba for a reason. And for another reason we send our relatives back there money, foodstuff, medicine, and so on.

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The entire caribbean is gonna go to more shit.

Here I found one

Read before you make yourself a fool. You didn't even read the article.

WHY WOULD A CUBAN MOVE BACK?

Well Cuba was only half decent during the Soviet era. Since then it's been a sinking ship. I can tell you that I grew up after the "periodo especial" was over and the education which was one of the greatest achievements of the revolution had gone to shit. Only idiots like this guy who can't even take two seconds to scroll through articles could claim that Cuba is a good place to live IF you don't have money. Even with money it's not like in Mexico or America or Spain where you go to a supermarket and stuff is there for you to buy. In Cuba the rich can't even buy stuff because there is nothing to buy.

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Can this thread get stickied like the DPRK thread was?

TANS?

Towards A New Socialism, a book written by Paul Cockshott

Despite its issues Cuba is still a better place to live then the rest of the Carribean

What's your point though? Do we need to 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧liberate🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 Cuba? Bring back capitalism so the rich can buy more stuff?

I mean I get that you're butthurt about some personal thing but if you could still refrain from open shilling that'd be great

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actually I'm pretty sure Marx writes about capitalism and socialism as different from each other

You mean cycle? I'll do it if gets 400+ replies, otherwise I don't see why I should.

How do you explain Cuba's HDI? Stop comparing Cuba to the USA instead of other central american countries. Go spread your gusano lies in Zig Forums, fascists love your kind.

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Well there is going to be amendments to the consitution, it appears to feature term limits, changing age limits & same sex marrage. Reports too of also allowing for a greater scope in coops, but I trust the presidente not to slip into revisionism, he is a hardcore ML.
telesurtv.net/english/news/Cuba-Raul-Castro-Appointed-Head-of-Constitutional-Reform-Commission-20180602-0010.html
mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1IY0D5?__twitter_impression=true

So you're saying an economy doesn't need industrial development to function as socialist economies. Sounds unmarxist to me, but may as well be non-marxist communist thinking.

What do you think of pol pot my friend?

We should all chip in and fly Cockshott to Cuba!

truly comical

Opening your ass to foreign capital is not industrial development

Fuck, seems like I had the wrong sources there, I apologise. If Cubas economy is just doing fidne then they, of coursem don't need a opening up.


This user got the right idea

The duality of Zig Forums

But it's only communists who want to starve people
Well, good thing they failed; and if they couldn't do it then then they won't be able to do it now, so cubans can focus on advancing other parts of the economy. Kim recently invited a Google executive to plan a contract to introduce some tech infrastructure in the country. Maybe if the more sane Cuba did the same thing we can have cybercommunism soon.

this


nice backpedalling, dengist faggot

And?


I would support a Spanish takeover, but never an Anglo takeover.


Who gives a fuck about HDI when people can't get what they need to live a normal life? Who cares about great education when an engineer is better off driving taxis in Havana, or when a doctor in mission abroad deserts to look for a better life?

All you can do is grasp at straws to defend your debunked ideology.

I would support you eating lead

Ironically, your post about two fictional people you just made up is exactly that. HDI literally measures how comparitively "normal" life is in a given country. The Cuban government has done a good job in securing people dignities without the introduction of capitalism

I'll bite. Who/what has debunked communism? Explain.

I suggest you to do your research before lashing out against the boogeyman of the week.


Indeed. Cuba must follow a more nuanced model so it can be capitalism with socialism as a goal, instead of turning Cuba into periphery state again.


You people can only argue against strawmen it seems.
Cuba can indeed develop when isolated on their island, but at snails pace which can be a huge risk when faced with increasing american sabotage. Tightly-controlled capitalism with Cuban characteristics would be a nice solution as long as it frees them from the embargo, and they put up mechanisms in place to avoid a full porky takeover.

Deng wasn't a neoliberal, but the call for reform and opening up of socialist economies are almost universally lauded by neoliberals. Rightly so, considering that they further reproduce markets, the commodity form, and other sources of capitalist control and exploitation. The fact that Deng himself wasn't a neoliberal is irrelevant.

Why the fuck would Cuba have to dismantle its socialist development in favor of selling out to capitalism? Why the fuck do you hate Cuba so much?


False dichotomy considering that's not what's happening. I already talked about Cuba's foreign trade in
Cuba has 2000 Dutch buses.
Cuba has normal economic growth, and it's definitely higher than that of the US.
It's been decreasing though. It's not the 60s anymore.
What you're arguing for is a porky takeover.
But if you actually believe it's possible, it still wouldn't free them from the embargo. The US doesn't just want Cuba to be capitalist, they have to stretch their ass far and wide to accomodate american capital. The US is even hostile to capitalist countries which aren't aligned with it.
And why the fuck do you insist so much on trade with the US? How many times do I have to tell you that Cuba has good trade with multiple countries which aren't the US?

Cuba is doing better than the US, people have jobs, free healthcare and education, and most importantly aren't in crushing debt. Meantime in USA when you're not shot in the back by police or exploited in amazon concentration camps you're barely making ends meet while juggling banker tax

Really Cuba doesn't need Reforms if they're doing just fine. China needed them bvecause they were a heavily underdeveloped Country with widespread poverty and hunger. It worked out for China it remains a Socialist Superpower but Cuba doesn't seem to be as weak as China was at the beginning of the reform and opening up era