The DSA

Y'all know the types of folks who are splitting? Hopefully it's all just old guard reformists.

They're ok, they actually do some organization on the ground level, mostly unions and healthcare, shit like that. As points out they also confront fascists at their rallies. I was there at cville and the Democrat Cops of America were far and away the largest organized force.
My biggest issue is just how chaotic and petty their presentation is. The dudes who get the word out on social media are either from the national wing or from the bigger chapters like Brooklyn and they are all fucking weirdos who seem to like airing dirty laundry rather than resolving disputes internally. This was probably most exemplified by the medicare for all disability caucus debacle which was really just a clerical error, but due to the bullshit way the organization runs it turned into a feud between various internal factions and battle lines were being drawn day by day.
Arguably, chapters that are further away from drama like that aren't going to be impacted all that much from doing their organization but immature feuding is only going to disrupt whatever goals they're achieving in the future. In addition to just being fucking sloppy.

There's a left caucus but I would be really surprised if they take away the lion's share during a split.

They are totally clueless idiots, far more likely to read CIA-coauthored Jakkkobin articles than actually read Marx and Lenin.

Yeah I suppose my local chapter is fortunate since we don't seem to have any of that but I'm down South. Then I hear about these Brooklyn / Jacobin people stirring up drama and I just want them to stop acting like a bunch of self-important twats.

Definitely. It's time to fully abandon the Democrats-in-Neocon-clothing of the Democrat party. Remember when they told us that we were going to get literally free healthcare?
WHERE IS YOUR FUCKING FREE HEALTHCARE, NIGGA? WHERE?!

As a foreign observer I think their intentions are good and their hearts are in the right place, but that they'll go through the same route of virtually every party that tried to be at the Left of the mainstream in the past 40 years without a social base that is mostly active, organize, working proletariat: degenerate into a progressive student association, increasingly distant to day-to-day concerns of working people, increasingly culturalist with their approach, and eventually implode. A glorified protest vote for people who are too young and too 'different' for the major parties to resonate with.

But think of it as a longer Occupy. It's probably destined to fail, but we can learn *a lot* with its failure if the right faction organizes, documents its history, debates its shortcomings and uses its flaws as propaganda in the future. So to answer your question if you should join, I say yes, but without high hopes. Learn the nuts and bolts of irl organizing, and if you're half smart you'll soon see a bunch of things that should be done differently. Keep those things in mind as you study and you consider new approaches in the future. This is how good organizers are made. And most importantly, meet people. Have a long-term view of things, even if this or that party/movement/organization fails what's important is that you learned something with all of them, instead of dismissing them beforehand.

Seriously, this is the biggest failure of the modern Left. We are far too idealist in our approach. You are right in saying that we need an active, organized, and working proletariat movement, or else we will just be the Utopian socialists all over again. I think the most important question that people on the Left have ignored or not addressed is how to create a real labor movement inside the US. It requires far more than just talking about Socialist ideas. I think we need to create revolutionary workers' groups, in order to sow the seeds of the new society within the old, and to create community programs, to help raise awareness of what such a society could look like. We should appeal to people not based on how sound the theory is (though that is one element), rather, we need to show people the extreme positive impact of Socialism on a material level.

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The most encouraging thing I've seen (but this just in my one not-Brooklyn area) is that relative lack of students, thank God. I know some of these people: texasobserver.org/red-state-socialism-texas/

Some organizer told the Washington Post (take with a grain of salt) that the average age is around 30. It sounds about right from what I've seen. My feeling is just to help out where I can. Like, one of the leaders here is a truck driver. I'm not a student either. A lot of socialist orgs seem to suffer from a lack of people who can do nuts-and-bolts work that is not glamorous and doesn't get much credit, but is necessary for the whole thing to sustain itself.

I think that's 100 percent correct. And I don't think it would've come about without the failures of Occupy.

Yeah for sure. People want to see what you're about and not just you telling them what you're about. Posting some propaganda from the Houston wrecking crew. There's a fash group there that spent like one day tearing apart some flooded house and looking exhausted in their own agitprop (which they put on Twitter) while these lefty girls have been at it for months. Just getting down to work with crowbars and axes.

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I can't wait until a 22 dollar minimum wage, and free housing/college is implemented in 2020

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You lame lazy fuckstain

I will say one thing to the DSА's credit, they have fucking lit agitpop. One thing I live is how the chapters not only localise issues, but also fully adopt local characteristics into their own campaigning. Almost all the full chapters have their own unique logo representing a part of local culture, it pretty damn impressive.

I know Pittsburg is at 607 members now. They also won like 4/5 primaries they were running in.

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Adding some more. That's what you get when you have a bunch of graphic designers. But yeah agreed and it adds a rootedness and a particularly American flavor to the whole thing. It's sort of like how our soccer teams would be better off creating their own identities instead of calling themselves "Real Salt Lake" or "Sporting Kansas City," like they were translated from a foreign language with hacked-off Italian and Spanish club logos. Nobody's buying that shit.

I think it's an opportunity since the alt-right in America have screwed up by associating their brand with Europe. Look at "Identity Evropa" for God's sake with the pointy, teal isosceles logo. Hint: Villains in American movies often have triangular features because it makes them look threatening. Round = positive. youtube.com/watch?v=lLQJiEpCLQE

I'm a proud Burger socialist. And I think I'm going to go get some McDonald's hash browns right now for breakfast because I'm a consumerist shithead and they are extremely tasty but I want their restaurants to be worker-owned and operated.

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I think also it makes brand recognition easier too. Like as the OP said, he joined them because he saw them at Cvillie. The fact that they so obviously stand out at n event like that is not only due to their graphicndesign but their praxis. It is like the two are married, their aesthetics show who they are and their praxis backs it up. They are local, socialist, populist, stand for x, y, z. All of this convayed by a logo that you not only associate with the org itself but the actions of the org. There is a lot to be learnt from here.

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Wait sprry it wasn't the OP, it was this user:
Also one thing to point out, while anons here are correct they do (mistakenly imo) engage in entryism within the democraps, they also do run indepemdent and green candidates. They are hardly tied to the org, and if a socdem party did form in the US (which would be dialectically progressive), they could easily join it and defect, unlike say Justice Democrats or Our Revolution.

The best thing my local D.S.A chapter does is change break lights for free. Probably one of the more radical things to come out of that chapter. Other than that I've had drinks with some of the people from the local chapter and they are good comrades despite some being on the more liberal/reformist side of things.
triblive.com/local/allegheny/13502700-74/pittsburgh-democratic-socialists-to-offer-gimmie-a-brake-light-clinic

death to statists

no it has to do with the fact that the old guard formed a caucus called "North Star Caucus". theyre digging in and completely resisting any attempt to transform the organization to reflect the membership better

literally everyone VS the old guard. the problem is that the entire leadership is held by the old guard. especially many large chapter leaderships

the membership has started to decline overall as of a few weeks ago. most of the members are "paper members" who just signed up out of buttfrustration with drumpf. for example Metro Atlanta Democrat Cops of America has 500 members on paper but at most 40-60 active participants

test
DSA

Could you please give us all a rundown on what the major caucuses are at this point? I know that there's Refoundation on the left and North Star on the right, but there are doubtless many more.

DSA is filled to the brim with liberals, social democrats, and reformists. That said, it is also clearly the formation that the masses are going to coalesce around to create a workers' party. 17,000 members pre-2016, 35,000 members now. That level of growth is fucking ridiculous and is clearly an indication that the Democrat Cops of America is where the class war is going to escalate. There are also multiple radical caucuses that are trying (successfully) to drive the organization in a more radical, revolutionary direction.

Turning your back on the Democrat Cops of America is turning your back on socialism/communism in America.

Haha, very funny BO.

Is there any way to forcibly take this board from that butthurt fucking moron? He's literally trying to turn Zig Forums into r/communism.

dsarefoundation.org/program/

Refoundation sounds fine. There's nothing that stands out as super wrong here, their first announcement is just a compilation of soundbites every Socialist already knows (we need independence from Democrats, we'll be in elections but we can't reform capitalism capitalism away, build organizations from the ground up, etc.) but this Program is decent and so are the 2019 Convention Resolutions.

I just want to use this thread to apologize for the fuckwad socc dem that made a thread saying distributing the horde of walmarts wealth among the workers would be of no consequence. That person needs the guillotine.

Modern day Kulaks.

Yeah I've heard about North Star Caucus. I counted around 70 signatories. I don't know what "completely resisting" means or that the "entire leadership" is held by them. My chapter leadership seems aligned with Bread & Roses (at least in practice) and I like their style.

I can't keep track of them all either. North Star seems like an odd duck that isn't where the real debate is. At least in Boston, opposite Refoundation is Synthesis. Bread & Roses is here and seems kinda Luxemburgist? breadandrosesdsa.org/analysis

Reddit is such total garbage lol I got banned from r/communism and I wasn't even posting anything negative.

Someone got banned for bad language after posting an Engels quote.

Around the rose, hold your nose.

Nice trips
I gotta admit I have some concerns about this northstar thing tho

dsanorthstar.org/may-01st-2018

This is popular front talk, when Trump has more in common with Napoleon III than any existential threat

I have… concerns

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North Star sucks.

As a yuropoor, i wouldn't suopport them in my country, but if i was a burger i would support them until death.
For what i know of U.S., in such a classcucked country is already a revolutionary thing to spread very basic ideas like that unionizing can be a good thing, that everyone deserves healthcare or that "freer the market freer the people" is often a bullshit.
Without a prior years-long work of spreading class-consciousness, you can't, as a communist, gain the support of the majority of the people overnight in a nation were communists were not even considered human until a few years ago.

lmao read Marx

pretty much every socialist thinker advocates for reforms, it's just a matter of what reforms, when to advocate for them, what to advocate for, reformist reforms vs "non reformist reforms", radical democracy vs centralization vs bourgeoisie democracy, definition of the dictatorship of the proletariat etc

THIS

They're better than nothing, but that's not saying much, especially considering how classcucked the US is.

BRUH LOOK AT THIS DUDE
dsausa.org/the_us_turn_to_assad
OH NO NO NO

This is so fucking confused, support revolution against Assad but btw the PYD are imperialist collaborators. Fucking weirdest take I have seen…

I would bet cash money there's some Refoundation (i.e. crypto-Trot) influence in that.

It's not much different from what you'd see in Socialist Worker. Like I said, Trots.

Leftists in favor of intervention in Syria are some of the weirdest people on the planet.

I remember when this came out.

As far as I'm aware, it was published because the authors were friends with the bloke who ran the blog, but most Democrat Cops of America members opposed it. idk.

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It was posted today.

Sweet mother of god.

...

reddit.com/r/ShitLiberalsSay/comments/8nyhv3/support_working_class_salafists_against_the/

I'm thinking of the other one then. Dear god.

How can you restore what wasn't there to begin with?

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For those whomare in the DSА, forna second what would you say the non electoral, non single issue actions the org engages in work well? I think the UK's Momentum could learn from their community praxis.

I've been in Refoundation for a couple of months now, and it's great. the people are solid and there's no drama. Please join Democrat Cops of America and your local Refoundation caucus.

Trust me, it's a much better use of your time then sitting here complaining about idpol or succdems

shut up opportunist

Leftcom genocide when?

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I'm a Leninist you fucking idiot.

pure cringe

Get off the chans and interact with real people.

i've talked with texans, and they thought it was dumb

That's a nice poster, but never trust anything with a rose on it

Why?

Liberals who drape themselves in a red flag.

I was in it for two months. They're all brain dead liberals. All of them.

Well I mean, the Democrat Cops of America might blow, but it's still the best, last hope we've got for socialism in the US. What do you think we should do?

No. Stop. The neolib establishment has never been weaker in people's eyes, and Trump's bigotry has turned off all but the stupidest proles. Everyone is dissatisfied with the current state of affairs, and it falls upon us socialists to offer an alternative.

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I'm thinking it's more of a 20 year project.