War thread

Can we have a thread to discuss military science, the art of war, war tactics and strategies? Also i want to make it clear that i'm not a war fetishist i'm just interested in military science.

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Other urls found in this thread:

globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2004/05/4gw_fourth_gene.html
youtube.com/watch?v=a2LNXsZHBJk
youtube.com/watch?v=h_6CKKPEOPQ
facebook.com/notes/doug-greene/military-strategy-reading-list/10158167298370293/
glantzbooks.com/
marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-6/mswv6_28.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/1937/guerrilla-warfare/
marxists.org/archive/guevara/1963/09/guerrilla-warfare.htm
youtube.com/watch?v=dObTXYa-_n4
reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/8pgw4y/do_not_let_the_arizona_trafficking_camps_be/
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

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Fokkin' saved.
Having once long ago been spooked by the "spam men until they run out of ammo"-meme, the sophistication of Eastern Front operations by the USSR is still a fascinating subject to study and use as an example of strategic cunning.

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The attached pdf is a copy of "Combat Actions in Korea," a work published by the Pentagon examining small unit engagements during the Korean War in great detail. The US never had the slightest scrap of competence.

any revolution in a First world industrialized nation Is going to be 4th gen.
globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2004/05/4gw_fourth_gene.html

The Battle of Russia
youtube.com/watch?v=a2LNXsZHBJk

The Battle of China
youtube.com/watch?v=h_6CKKPEOPQ

Fuck off fed

?

facebook.com/notes/doug-greene/military-strategy-reading-list/10158167298370293/

Five-star thread.

I'll add something about the overrated military competence of the Waffen SS. Now, if you just learn history from video games you might imagine them as crack troops, but that was not really accurate, at least from the perspective (or one could say bias) of many in the Wehrmacht. The book Soldaten by Soenke Neitzel and Harald Welzer goes into it. The army often felt the SS guys to be too fanatical for their own good, and one officer witnessed an SS unit attack an occupied Soviet village by marching toward it without machine gun support and while singing songs and waving flags. They were massacred.

The best English-language historian on the Eastern Front is also David M. Glantz. His books are a dry read, to put it mildly. But if you want detail, he's the man. Speaks Russian and is a product of the Virginia Military Institute, U.S. Army War College and the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College – which needed to produce expertise like his because the Pentagon expected to apply it.

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OT but as someone who specialises in Russian history and is learning the language in parallel, the number of wankstains who write about Russia that DON'TSPEAK THE COCKING LANGUAGE triggers me to no end. Like legit, it is not even socalled western sovietologists but like people writing about politics yoday or the tsarist era. Gets on my tits so much.

really

The Fallshermijager on the other hand…

Yup. BTW Glantz has a website straight out of the 90s where he sells all kinds of stuff. War atlases, translated archival records, headquarters summaries; life's work stuff: glantzbooks.com/

It is insane the stuff he's got. Anyways. If there's anyone who has helped revise the Western understanding of the Soviets as … actually a skilled, war-winning force instead of a bunch of faceless hordes, it's Glantz. He also debunks the myth that Stalin deliberately allowed the Germans to destroy the Polish Home Army in Warsaw.

Also the biggest tank battle in history was not Kursk, it was at Brody in 1941. Ranking the "biggest" battles is more fit to pop histories though.

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If you want to face abject terror, learning about WW1 seems to be the way to do it. Jesus, Mary, and Patrick, what a fucking horror story. Millions of working class people just dumped into a meat grinder by aristocrats comfy in their palaces and hotels while "their countrymen" rotted in stinking, frigid trenches while being bombed day in, day out, gassed, shot, skewered, froze, without given shoes or blankets or even decent fucking food.

No war but the class war, now and forever.

this thread is pop music of war strategies, you know there is a free officer literature out there but best you can do is repeat garbage stereotypes that is completely useless and just boring after some time of hearing it over and over?


ok retards use all of your worthless fucking posts and tell me, how many howitzers should you put in a division?
simple fucking question, if any one of you bothered to read what a division or what a howitzer even is, you could make a rough guess for each circumstance and even explain why different countries have different divisions with different amounts of howitzers and everything else in it

but you dont

and just to add to this, the worst thing is, officer literature is actually fun
you start reading and after some time it makes sense, its engaging, you start figuring things out and it becomes fun exploring all the different wars and what worked and what didnt and why would someone try it in the first place and why he started doing something else instead and so on, and not only that but you can quiz yourself at the start of a war and just enjoy how often you are right once you get the general sense of why people do what they do in a war

you too could know what is the difference between a mechanized and a motorized infantry, and why would you even motorize them in the first place
and how air superiority factors in all of that

Thank god you're here to enlighten us all.

woah slow down Clausewitz this is some heavy shit

The only thing I've read that's close to what you are describing is Carl Stiener's Bio when I was a teen.

I don't know about other countries but in the UK the upper classes suffered a proportionately higher death toll than the proletariat. Many aristocratic young men were fanatically patriotic.

Fine then. Any personal recommendations?

This is fucking "5 minutes of Wikipedia" tier you absolute cretin.

Combat Actions in Korea was written for the consumption of junior officers with little combat experience. After describing every engagement the author does this little hand-holding analysis of all the places where the American forces messed up.

lowest-tier role playing I've seen on Zig Forums congrats

That's good at least.

There's a certain kind of military dork (actually a ton of them) like this who constantly and smugly remind everyone of their mastery of technical lingo. "What do you mean you don't know the difference between an APC and an IFV you pleb?"

Ultimately that shit doesn't really matter and it's much better to teach conceptual ideas such as "friction" (that's from Clausewitz). Basic idea is that war is mutually destructive, and that "everything is very simple in war, but the simplest thing is very difficult." In a Napoleonic sense this could mean that your best-laid plans start to go awry because of … rain. Now the roads are muddy which slows everything down. And soldiers start getting sick, and they're miserable, and all of these simple-difficult things add up to make war into a slog, like walking through a swamp. That's "friction."

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Honorary comrade?

(me)
Me again. Turned on my burger bux. Thinking about "friction" again, the way to apply this is to build a resilient force that can withstand the shock of combat. For most of us this might just be in a wargame or while playing chess. The plan never goes according to plan, and while you can still achieve a result it may not be in the way you originally intended. This is at the core of Soviet deep battle with its multiple breakthroughs and emphasis on having reserves to reinforce success seen here:

Honestly, the fighting at Charlottesville between Nazis and antifa is a good illustration of friction. Did you know the Nazis had to park a mile away and march in? And they didn't bring enough water and it was in August? So a lot of them were tired before they got there. They even created formation plans but weren't able to implement them because the square was already contested by the time they were able to mass their "forces" as it were. Then instead of meeting a black bloc, which they anticipated, the antifas opted NOT to go in black bloc style – which fucked up the Nazis' optics as they wanted to portray themselves a certain way. They were expecting Berkeley but got something else. The opposition was a mixed crowd, with some people fighting them, throwing shit, while others were not. It caused the Nazis' to get their wires crossed, and some of the more frustrated and easy-to-anger ones charged in and got beat. They were unable to pivot or change plans on the fly – and ironically, for fascists, undisciplined.

They were also thinking in terms of movies like '300' or a Total War game where they'd just clear the field, overestimating themselves and not realizing that the outcome would be inevitably inconclusive. And ultimately the whole event caused them much more damage, organizationally and to their infrastructure. One of the largest and most active groups, the Traditionalist Worker Party, imploded in an act of marital cuckoldry. They were hit by a wave of well-funded lawsuits. A bunch of their websites were taken offline. And they didn't plan on any of that happening either.

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Things don't change, do they…

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Marxist strategy writing, please contribute:
marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-6/mswv6_28.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/1937/guerrilla-warfare/
marxists.org/archive/guevara/1963/09/guerrilla-warfare.htm

Kek

Nope.

Incidentally, if you look closely at that pic of the riot you'll notice some of the antifas with numbers written on their arms. Most people here will be familiar with that, but it's a reminder that peeps anticipate going to jail (you try not to get arrested in the first place buuuut just in case) and there's a system beforehand to get everyone bailed out. Notice how after that riot some of the Nazis were stuck in the local jails without legal representation? "Buht ve thot ze cops would be on our side durr." They had this magnificently-constructed plan and loved showing off all their gear, but the plan only worked if everything went according to how they expected it go, instead of things going to absolute shit – while the antifas had a more flexible, resilient strategy that kind of anticipates (?) things going to shit I suppose.

youtube.com/watch?v=dObTXYa-_n4

Anyways we can get back to talking about Operation Bagration and the destruction of Army Group Center but I thought it'd be interested to illustrate some Clausewitzian concepts using these street fights. It's how I'd think about war and violence generally.

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so this thread still doesnt know how many howitzers should be put in a division?

I love stuff like this, thanks user!

69

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Well how about you share some pdfs you stingy cunt? I'd be more than happy to read anything productive you'd be willing to share. Educate your comrades rather than trying to get some false sense of superiority.

None. The US Army has disbanded dozens of tube artillery battalions since the 90s. Just use GMLRS with HIMARS grandpa.

There was a huge propaganda push post-war by the US to paint the Germany military as being far more capable than it actual was, along with efforts to "sanitize" the Wehrmacht and paint them as "good but misguided"

Any wargamers here? I have pic related and I play it all the time. Sometimes with truckers on the internet (VASSAL) sometimes with friends who I can usually only convince to play for 40 minutes after explaining the rules to them for 90 minutes lol. It's a lot of fun.

It's squad level so you don't get any strategic knowledge out of it, but the armor penetration tables are pretty damn historical and uninhibited by wehrboo shit. It has rules for stuff like the Russians having less advanced radio equipment (depending on the time period)

When I played my dad he wanted to play the germans because he assumed that they had the best tanks, and I proceeded to steemroll him with my T34s, which were faster and better armored. It's a lot of fun.

GMT Hex and Chit games in general are awesome. If you see one at a store pick it up. They only print them in small numbers. You can also play them on VASSAL pretty much for free since they put all their PDFS online, but it's not the same as playing at a real table with real pieces.

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So I'm looking at this dudes site and there's so much shit, do you have any recommendations in particular?

Always been sort of interested in tabletop wargames, but have never had the money or company to play them with. I do play Combat Mission, though, and was running a couple of Steel Panthers PBEMs with a friend. SPWW2 is some pretty good shit; I remember one we did was a battalion-level meeting engagement between Soviet and American mechanised infantry in 1946.

Sorta related, I was looking at putting together some sort of super simple Squad Leader-type system for a site I used to post on (NationStates), though I think something like a sort of Kriegsspiel-type thing that relies a bit more on common sense and agreements between players and umpire would have worked better instead of trying to come up with all these rules and shit.

fucking cool

my man posting that shit on facebook too, he's just saying yeah i'm no afraid of no fucking list

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comepletely devoid of aesthetics.
about as pleasing as a wal-mart bathroom.
try again faggot.

The old Dawn of War games are pretty good if you want to do the wartop thing without spending a bunch of money. There have been a few newer warhams games out recently that more accurately capture a tabley-toppy sort of feel, but I can't rec them or not since I haven't played them myself.

This reminds me, has anyone heard anything about this Tucson Arizona shit that's (apparently) going on? Word is that an user of 4chan "predicted it" a year or two ago, which if its true makes me immediately guess that it's some psyop shit.

That airplane they're blowing up?

Allegedly a bunch of former veterans were doing their "border patrol" shit and came across an abandoned camp out in the desert that they're saying are child/human trafficking depots, that the AZ police are covering it up, and that the government of Tucson is tied up in it.

reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/8pgw4y/do_not_let_the_arizona_trafficking_camps_be/

And apparently there was a post on 4chan of someone saying "the biggest story of 2017 will be about the mayor of tucson arizona" or something like that.

Modern militaries are plagued by their obsession on mobile warfare. There has been no substantial increases in either the military stockpiling of fuel reserves or other equipment in case of a war. overt emphasis on air power and professional armies is going to make next war very devastating for all great powers partaking in it as you`re going to run out of A+ quality of troops within first few weeks.

I think that the joint military excises in Gotland(Aurora 17) showed the general flaws of professional armies versus far more relaxed conscript forces(Americans and Swedes got their asses kicked 10-1 against finnish self-defense forces). If we are ever going to fight a continental war within this century the mindset regarding strategic reserves must be reformed in all national armies especially on the supply side.

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It's a blurring of the QAnon/Pizzagate conspiracy theories with militia types. Sort of inevitable but variations on this have been going on for decades. In the 90s, these guys would've been driving around looking for "clues" on the backs of street signs allegedly pointing toward where the U.N. convoys would go during the looming NWO invasion.


Interesting.

Issue is conscription won't fly outside of Scandinavia, Switzerland and Austria in the EU. As binkov said, Russia would 'win' a war under 8 months the EU one longer than that: but the EU would have to engage a war economy & conscription. The west hasn't the money or political will for this.
However, Russia is also pretty weak, its reserve are really shit and its equipment is either REALLY goos or dogshite. No middle ground. Add to that an unhealthy reliance on paramilitaries and a weakened industrial structure due to the sanctions (it really fucked supply chains, Rusal is still feeling the heat).
In short, neither the EU or Russia can fight a war properly, and neither side can win.