A question regarding Comrade Stalin

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Hello, newfriend!
Please don't use your email next time, some jackass might try and spam you. And there isn't particularly a reason to enter a name, you can (and probably should) just post as Anonymous like the rest of us.
did a pretty good job of explaining things. Stalin did a fairly decent job, considering the situation he was handed. It certainly wasn't perfect, but nothing really is.
Also, your picture is fine. We have half naked asian girls on articles of syrian bombings, I think your picture of Stalin is far more fitting for, well, a Stalin thread.
Check out the reading threads pinned to the top of the catalog, since you're new here.

oh yeah this too

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Stalin's "project" socialism in one country is the most retarded thing ever. Stalin was a counterrevolutionary in Spain, he supported nationalists in China, he pacted with Hitler, he destroyed Lenin's party. He's scum. And he failed. This is irrefutable. Into the trashbin of history

That was Nikolai Yezhov, not Stalin. Stalin had him executed for that, remember?

Oh yeah, he was a real prick, along with Trotsky, that's my biggest gripe. I'm not trying to make him out to be a great guy, I'm just disseminating truth from capitalist lies.

You gotts use that > symbol on your keyboard when you wanna quote someone

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youtube.com/watch?v=AzTy4rBVDJ8

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4 of course. If you're taking about the USSR as a whole, then 3.

On leftybooru type in the tag STALIN and you'll find a ton of quotes, a ton of infographs and a ton of other stuff like related pictures

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Eyyy that's my list. FYI you know you can post it all in one post right? This isn't like 4chan you can post up to 4-5 images or files at a time.

All 4.

Stalin was an egocentric asshole who incompetently carried out extreme but often necessary actions which were then exaggerated and sometimes outright fabricated by Western sources.

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Good example. Having a political opponent assassinated like this is both evil and incompetent.

I actually agree with you, I just wanted to meme.

lol I understand, we all gotta meme from time to time

There are certainly some aspects of Stalin's rule that could be considered category 1. For example, the Great Purges, in a somewhat similar vein to the Great Terror during the French Revolution, represented Stalin's efforts to consolidate his rule by eliminating pretty much all of the remaining Old Bolsheviks, like Zinoviev, party, government and Red Army officials viewed as potential threats to the regime, "ex-kulaks" and other "anti-Soviet" groups like the intelligentsia as well as nationalities viewed as potential threats, like the Poles. It would be difficult to argue that the Great Purge fits into category 3 when it led to severe Red Army issues during WWII because of a depleted officer corps as well as the evidence that the show trials and confessions were generally fabricated Another example is the Katyn massacre against Polish intelligentsia and military officers to cement USSR control of Eastern Poland.

Yeah i know, but it failed for some reason, happens often when i try to upload multiple pdfs

Based

Fucking funny how anarchists pretend to be edgy moral nihilists when it comes to their own agenda but would endlessly cry about the murder of a bunch of reactionary quasi-fascist Polish officer corps.

it is so fucking convenient for Yelzin to release the supposed incriminating document at a time when the dissolution of the USSR needed some legitimization, and since the people were against it, smearing the USSR as a criminal entity was a good way to do so. Here is the question: Krushchev, who was largely unpopular as well, rested his legitimacy on the supposed "crimes" of Stalin as well - if this document existed in the deep vaults of the Kremlin, why didn't he mentioned it in his secret speech? He certainly blamed Stalin for Katyn - why didn't he back it up if he just had to go a few levels lower to get incriminating evidence?

Secondly, the story itself is wacky as fuck. You don't even need to read Furr to come to that conclusion. What we have are a bunch of dead officers with German bullets. The "official" version is that the Soviets somehow foresaw that the Germans will attack them in the future, despite they currently having a non-aggression pact with Germany and we all know that Stalin didn't believe Hitler to attack in 1941, and that there also was economic cooperation, so that they would use German bullets (where did they get them from?) because they somehow know that 10 years into the future some investigation would blame the defeated Germans for this if they discovered it. Are you fucking kidding me? That story is ridiculous, especially since the Soviets didn't really have a motive (remember that the Germans saw the Poles as semi-subhumans), and would later not execute captured German officers, which were obviously more of an archenemy.

english.battlefield.ru/analytics/137-katyn-revised.html

katynmassakern.blogspot.com

mythcracker.wordpress.com/2010/07/14/katyn-49-signs-of-falsification-of-“closed-package-no-1”/

There is no evidence that Holodomor was planned and orchestrated by the Soviet Union under Stalin's orders. It was a combination of drought, bad year for crops, and the Kulaks killing their own cattle.

marxism.halkcephesi.net/Ludo Martens/node77.html

mltheory.wordpress.com/2014/06/07/facts-about-the-holodomor-and-why-its-fake/

quora.com/Was-Holodomor-a-Genocide-or-a-crime-against-humanity/answer/Chuck-Garen

In 1926 the USSR had a population of approximately 150 million.

In 1951 the USSR had a population of approximately 175 million

Subtract 60 million plus 30 million wartime deaths from 150 million… that means that over 2/3 of the soviet population died and yet it grew by 25 million, meaning at least 115 million births, which is physically impossible.

switch 60 for 20 and you still get an absurd 1/3 of the population killed, and 75 million births, again, without any means for it. The USA meanwhile grew at a much slower birth rate, (if we assume these 10s of millions are somehow true), despite being in peace-time most of that time period, being an established economy, suffering negligibly in WW 2 and having a baby ‘boom’.

But lets not go by rough numbers lets be precise:

In 1924 Stalin was in the higher circles of the USSR however he only achieved the top post ( in terms of power) in 1927. However the first census of the USSR came in 1926, so we'll start from there.

Population;

January 1926 : 148,656,000
January 1937: 162,500,000
January 1939: 168,524,000
June 1941: 196,716,000
January 1946: 170,548,000
January 1951: 182,321,000

now lets divide Stalin's years of rule (1927-1953) that is 26 years. So lets divide 66 million (as claimed by Solzhenitsyn) by 26, that equals 2.538461 million people killed per year, and according to Solzhenitsyn that’s only the GULAGS. Subtracting the population of West Ukraine (East Poland) and the Baltics the 1941 demographic still has close to 190 million people. So lets add in War casualties (27 million in 4 years = 6.75 million killed annually from the war and add in the 1932-33 famine deaths (approximately 4 million people + reduced birth rates) and we get this

In 1937, despite losing 31.923071 million people since 1926 and despite a period of birth rate fall in from 1932 to 1934 (famine only to 1933 but declined birthrate lasted another year) The increase of population was 13.844 million people, meaning that apparently the number of people born was 45.767071 million people which is a rate of roughly 30% increase in population in the span 11 years. Which makes no sense, that means 32 million people died in the next 25 years and yet, even taking into account WW 2 losses (27 million) and the inclusion of the Baltics into the USSR the population SKYROCKETS between 1937 and 39 and continued to do so through the 40s.

The Gulag was a prison institution with the purpose of giving criminals a chance to contribute something to society while being reformed and punished for their crimes; this mainly took the form of mining and railroad building in Siberia, which was in desperate need of industrialization (and without which, the USSR could not have defeated the fascist invasion of 1941). The vast majority of inmates were ordinary criminals:

The biggest specialist in this subject, Viktor Zemskov, who worked in the Soviet archives in the period of 'Perestroika' gives the following facts,"In 1937 there were 1,196,369 prisoners and 87% of them were ordinary non-political criminals like thieves, cons, etc. in GULAG. In 1938 in GULAG were 1,881,570 prisoners and 81% of them were ordinary criminals. From 1939 to WWII, the number of prisoners was decreasing mainly because of setting them free after the completion of their sentence. The smallest percentage of ordinary criminals was in 1947 - 40% but at that time, the prisons were full of war criminals like parricides, deserters, collaborators, marauders, and other 'innocent victims' of this kind.
The largest number of GULAG prisoners was 1 January 1950 – 2,567,351 and 77% of them were ordinary criminals, mostly post-war bandits.[1]
By comparison, the United States (one of the main defacers of Stalin) has a similar number of its citizens within its prisons:What do these numbers mean? Is it a lot or not? 1.9 million prisoners in the pike of 'mass repressions' or is it nothing unusual? Let's compare these numbers with "the base of democracy"- the USA, where there are more than 2.3 million people imprisoned today.[2] The US population is about 300 million, and the population of USSR of the 1930s was about 200 million. If we recount the proportion and imagine that the USA now has the population of the USSR in the 1930s then the US would have 1.53 million prisoners, a bit less than in the pike of the "repressions" (1.88 million), but more than in the "terrible 1937" and almost equal to number of all GULAG prisoners in 1939.[1] Yet no one questions whether the United States is rife with mass political repressions and purges. During the entirety of Stalin's "reign" (1929-1953) 1.6 million died in the Gulag [2]. Secondly, that is a very small number given how many were there over that period; in fact, it is only just over 10%. You would likely find a similar figure in the prisons of the United States. The number of dead in the Gulag is consistent with natural causes (e.g. disease). Most of the inmates died because Siberia is a terrible place to go camping for several months at a time. This is precisely the reason that Stalin used criminals (who already owed society a debt) rather than ordinary workers for the industrialization of Siberia.

"In 1993, for the first time, several historians gained access to previously secret Soviet police archives and were able to establish well-documented estimates of prison and labor camp populations. They found that the total population of the entire gulags as of January 1939, near the end of the Great Purges, was 2,022,976. At about that time, there began a purge of the purgers, including many intelligence and secret police (NKVD) officials and members of the judiciary and other investigative committees, who were suddenly held responsible for the excesses of the terror despite their protestations of fidelity to the regime.
…Despite harsh conditions, the great majority of gulag inmates survived and eventually returned to society when granted amnesty or when their terms were finished. In any given year, 20 to 40% of the inmates were released, according to archive records .
Almost a million Gulag prisoners were released during World War II to serve in the military. The archives reveal that more than half of all gulag deaths for the 1934-53 period occurred during the war years (1941-45), mostly from malnutrition, when severe privatization was the common lot of the entire Soviet population. (Some 22 million Soviet citizens perished in the war.) In 1944, for instance, the labor-camp death rate was 92 per 1000. By 1953, with the postwar recovery, camp deaths had declined to three per 1000." - Parenti, Michael. Blackshirts and Reds, San Francisco: City Light Books, 1997, p. 79

Footnotes:
1:web.archive.org/web/20150628014848/http://www.northstarcompass.org/nsc0901/gulag.htm

2: Steven Rosefielde. Red Holocaust. Routledge, 2009. ISBN 0-415-77757-7 pg. 67 "…more complete archival data increases camp deaths by 19.4 percent to 1,258,537"; pg 77: "The best archivally based estimate of Gulag excess deaths at present is 1.6 million from 1929 to 1953."

cercec.fr/materiaux/doc_membres/Gabor RITTERSPORN/Victims of the Gulag.pdf

sovietinfo.tripod.com/GTY-Penal_System.pdf

Purges: there were political and military.

Army Purges:

A wave of repressions swept through the Red Army in the late 1930s and early 1940s. According to documents which have since been declassified, between 1934 and 1939, the Red Army's command lost over than 56,000 people, 10,000 of them arrested. Another 14,000 were dismissed for drunkenness and 'moral degradation'; the rest were dismissed for other reasons – illness, disability, etc. In the same period, 6,600 of the officers previously dismissed were reinstated after further proceedings. These repressions were not without reason Part of the reason the USSR lost initial fights was because several commanders did not destroy key large sections of the soviet infrastructure before retreating, giving the Nazis an easier path and available resources, these were not light mistake especially in war time. For example the famous “martyr” Tukachevsky was proven to be directly involved with the Nazis, and this was disregarding several idiotic decisions in the past (such as losing the Soviet-Polish war of 1922 by exposing his flank to the Poles and thus letting them cut the Red Army to pieces). Despite this attempt to remove such traitors, the strike on July 22, 1941 came as a "surprise" to the generals at the border, who had ignored Stalin's exact order to be at the ready for possible invasion. In short it was negligence of the commanders that led to a wide-spread cracking of the front despite superior forces over-all.

To understand the scale of the purge, it's worth recalling that in 1937, Marshal Kliment Voroshilov said that, “the army had a total of 206,000 persons in the command structure”. The total size of the Red Army in 1937 was 1.5 million men at the time.

Admittedly, poor training of the commanders of the Red Army was a problem in the mid-30s, but not one caused by repression, but rather the rapid increase of men in the armed force. Already in 1939 the army had grown to 3.2 million men, and by January 1941 – to 4.2 million. By the beginning of the war the command staff amounted to nearly 440,000 officers and staff, but training of officers is longer than of ordinary soldiers and thus it was out of proportion. The country was preparing for war, the army was growing, Being re-organized with new unit systems, undergoing rearmament, and the training of officers really did come too little, too late. 29% of Soviet military personnel had a higher education before the repressions. After them, the number became 38%. By 1941, the number had risen to 52%. Note that for the decade before the repressions, the number had remained stagnant at around 20-30%.

cas1961.livejournal.com/1204240.html

colonelcassad.livejournal.com/1246858.html

Political purges

It is to be noted that in 1936-37 The Great Terror is actually called the Yezhovschina, because it was YEZHOV who was to blame for that period and NOT Stalin who had been deceived by Yezhov, (who was then court-martialed and executed for his crimes and the prisoners he unjustly imprisoned released as soon as possible). The argument that the West makes is that Stalin was a psychotic mass murderer who wantonly slaughtered millions of his citizens. The reality is that he made choices directly pertaining to the future of socialism, and made those choices in response to stimuli happening at the time. Communists often will argue about his ideology and if what he did was really the correct interpretation of Marx and Lenin. As a communist I cannot accept any criticism of Stalin's work without verifying all primary data pertaining to the question under debate and without considering all versions of facts and events, in particular the version given by the Bolshevik leadership. The civil war had only ended a few years prior, with thousands of White Guard Russians dying in defense of the tsar. The Western Powers had rendered assistance to the Whites under in the form of 250,000 troops spread across large portions of Russia. Internally spies sabotaged the limited industrial heart of the country. Truth and trust were in short supply. The assistance provided to White Russian forces weighed heavily on the minds of the comintern leaders throughout the 20s and 30s, especially the idea of capitalist encirclement, and especially to Stalin who warned of external and internal threats to the country. Additionally, fascism was swiftly on the rise, Hitler was making no bones about his expansionist plans. One of the big things that precipitated the Russian Revolution was military defeats by the Tsarist government. Its not too difficult to see why Stalin was so worried that the revolution could be overthrown, especially considering Japans imperialist pushing in Manchuria and the rise of fascism. External threats were as much a concern as internal ones. Stalin and the upper comintern leadership therefore decided to eliminate internal and external threats that would provide a "fifth column" to the enemies invading the Soviet Union. Less a desire to murder randomly to instill terror, and more a desire to prepare the country for war. Most modern interpretations of the Great Terror believe that it was initiated at the top, to deal with close and obvious threats, but then spiraled out of control due to paranoia in Soviet society. Another thing to realize is that the Soviet Union was a vast vast entity made up of republics. Abuses of human rights thus can be attributed to local implementation. Pointing out the foreign threat does not negate the importance of ideology or Stalin's personality, but it remains an important factor in what happened. As for collectivization. It was a dual implemented policy along with industrialization. Pretty much the entire party leadership, as well as almost every Communist and non-Communist engineers and technical specialists agreed that industrialization was important. Lack of industrialization had cost Russia dearly in WW-1 against Germany, and contributed greatly to the military defeats suffered by the Tsar. Thus the dual policies of attempting to grow the agricultural and industrial output of the nation became matters of urgent national importance.

youtube.com/watch?v=TBY_aDd5knE

red-sovet.su/post/28731/masshtaby-stalinskih-repressij-tochnye-tsifry

i think it's the first time i hear something reasonable and quite based by a trot

mltheory.wordpress.com/2015/02/23/h-g-wells-on-joseph-stalin/

"Communism under Stalin has produced the most valiant fighting army in Europe. Communism under Stalin has provided us with examples of patriotism equal to the finest annals of history. Communism under Stalin has won the applause and admiration of all the Western nations. Communism under Stalin has produced the best generals in this war. I was always impressed by Lincoln's answer when Grant was charged with taking too much drink.Persecution of Christianity? Not so. There is no religious persecution. The church doors are open. And there is complete freedom to practice religion, just as there is complete freedom to reject it. Racial persecution? Not at all. Jews live like other men. There are many races in the Soviet Union and not even a color bar. Political purges? Of course. But it is now clear that the men who were shot down would have betrayed Russia to her German enemy." -Opportunity to Win War in 1942; A SECOND FRONT IN EUROPE TO AID RUSSIA By LORD BEAVERBROOK, Britain's Lease-Lend Coordinator in Washington, Delivered before the Bureau of Advertising of the American Newspaper Publishers Association, April 23, 1942
ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1942/1942-04-23b.html

socialistmlmusings.wordpress.com/2017/02/23/stalins-four-attempts-at-resignation/

red-channel.de/the_real_stalin_private.htm

That's for the "egocentric asshole" part.

As for incompetent… yeah the results achieved by the USSR speak for themselves, and it is clear to anyone with any understanding of history that this would be impossible without Stalin, and under Trotsky would have devolved into a shittier peasantized version of the French Revolution.

It's like MLs literally don't know how to have a conversation without dumping a bunch of barely relevant quotes and stats into the conversation like info diarrhea.

Seriously, how does an HG Wells quote disprove the notion that Stalin was an egocentric asshole? Far more convincing evidence for my argument is that he routinely imprisoned and executed people who he felt challenged his position in the Soviet government; he cared more about maintaining his own power and privilege than doing what was best for his people.

Also, no one is disputing the enormous success of the USSR, least of all me. The truth of the matter is that the inherently superior nature of socialized production means that you could have put Donald fucking Trump in charge of the Soviet government and we still would have seen astonishingly positive results. All I'm saying is that Stalin was a mediocre statesman and administrator.

The quotes are VERY relevant and so are the stats you Trotsky fellating moron.

Because H.G. Wells had no reason to praise Stalin outright and because He actually KNEW Stalin unlike YOU.

Something that is absolute rubbish
See:

It's at this point I've realized you're either VERY feeble minded or trolling, (or both).
Yes Trump the guy who loves grandeur and money, who is for privatization and who is not even 1/100th the manager Stalin was, would get the same results in the USSR… Just wow.

You truly are a Trot and an idiot to boot.
houstoncommunistparty.com/the-remorse-of-a-dissident-alexander-zinoviev-on-stalin-and-the-dissolution-of-the-ussr/

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Joseph Stalin was a great man; few other men of the 20th century approach his stature. He was simple, calm and courageous. He seldom lost his poise; pondered his problems slowly, made his decisions clearly and firmly; never yielded to ostentation nor coyly refrained from holding his rightful place with dignity. He was the son of a serf but stood calmly before the great without hesitation or nerves. But also - and this was the highest proof of his greatness - he knew the common man, felt his problems, followed his fate.
WEB DuBois, in [marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/biographies/1953/03/16.htm "On Stalin" in National Guardian (1953)

I would be interested in a rebuke of this. This seems to cover almost all of what are considered to be Stalin's atrocities in mainstream circles. Is it the truth, or is it lies?

newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/06/how-stalin-became-stalinist

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All of the above. A couple things were just malice but mostly it was either incompetency, necessity or it didn't actually happen

I have seen this claim
of execution Quotas in so many places and yet I have never seen a single source for this claim.

Already covered m8:

You can't tell me that Stalin just didn't notice everyone disappearing. He wasn't personally responible for all of the deaths, the great purge was more like mass hysteria than a purge but Stalin definitely did have several people executed for political disagreements.

Evidence of that? I'd like to see a single order where Stalin says, these guys are politically disagreeing with ME and so we have to get rid of them". You can't because that never happened.
I'm sorry, have you eve been the leader of a country with 150+ million citizens? Not to mention, that no-one said he didn't notice, I explained it thoroughly, I don't get what you fail to understand here.

Misread your post. Would you say that Bukharin was a traitor of some kind?

Not initially but eventually he became far too self-centered in his political ideas. The youtube link is to TheFinnishBolshevik and is part of a series discussing these trials, FB mentions Bukharin and also sources his (and other trials) in the description

Some of the confessions are just strange. Do you honestly think Bukharin would call himself a "degenerate fascist" working for the "restoration of capitalism" without any sort of coercion? Or that he would say something like "the monstrousness of my crime is immeasurable especially in the new stage of struggle of the U.S.S.R. May this trial be the last severe lesson, and may the great might of the U.S.S.R. become clear to all."

Show me where he says this on the original document. And as for strange, what is TRULY strange is that, if he was tortured, and beaten and starved and whatnot, how could he write so well, in cursive Russian no less?!

he Moscow Trials have never been “disproven”. No one has ever presented any evidence that the defendants’ testimony was compelled by torture or threats, or that the defendants were innocent of the crimes to which they confessed at trial. No one, ever.

You can make extrapolations on the :strangeness" of things all you like, but unless you have something harder, like a contradictory FACT or evidence there is nothing to go off of.

About the part where he attempted to resign 4 times…

Is there any evidence to suggest that he genuinely intended to resign and didn't say he wanted to do that as some form of political maneuvering?

He did it formally, and there is no evidence he schemed with other statesmen to orchestrate refusal of his resignation.

And I believe it, because he was utterly and unquestionably devoted to Lenin, so, when they received the testament with Lenin deeming him unfit - he'd just jump right into resignation without a second thought.

Didn't the Soviet courts come out later in the 1950s and stated a lot of the evidence against various alleged ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ist conspirators were falsified "in violation of the Constitution of the USSR, contrary to the requirements of criminal and criminal procedural laws, without the sanction of the prosecutor or court order, by the direct arbitrariness of Stalin and Yezhov. In the case there is no objective evidence confirming the commission of any of the accused state crimes. The charges in these crimes are false and are based only on contradictory 'confessionary' testimonies of the arrested persons imposed by NKVD officers on criminal methods of conducting the investigation in the case." – Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, 1964

That is literally debunked rubbish, Furr's book Khrushchev Lied is exactly about how this was exactly that, a lie. Many of these pardoned people would be released on the streets and continue terrorizing the people with criminal acts and writing anti-soviet bilge. The most prominent example is Solzhenitsyn.

I do hope you don't genuinely think Lenin's testament is a serious work…

Lenin’s Testament is a questionable piece of work written at a time when Lenin was no longer in a fit state of mind and when it was becoming obvious that a successor for Lenin was going to be needed. ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ at that time showed his true colors and struck out as the opposition, going against Lenin’s ideas, but instead of fighting with Lenin who was all but dead, he instead focused on twisting Lenin’s words for his own purposes against his opponents, and using the authority of Lenin’s words to try and discredit them.

Lenin’s testament shows that Lenin did not KNOW that Stalin would be his successor but that it was likely regardless of his flaws.

stalinsocietypk.wordpress.com/2014/02/03/on-the-relations-between-lenin-and-stalin/

stalinsociety.org/2016/02/26/the-real-stalin-series-part-four-lenins-testament/

mltheory.wordpress.com/2015/03/12/80

mltheory.wordpress.com/2017/02/07/on-the-alleged-forgery-of-lenins-testament/

Bretty good for a trot.

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Grover Furr is a crank and the USSR never later put that fascist Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn on stamps. I'm sure Tukhachevsky, the guy who developed Soviet deep operations theory, would've gone out on the streets terrorizing people with ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ite pamphlets [/sarcasm]

Now, that is correct.

(me)
Quoting for pic.

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Prove it. Debunk something he stated…. You can't.

espressostalinist.com/2016/06/09/why-does-the-pseudo-left-hate-grover-furr/

msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/pol/response_to_comments_121812.html

You're an idiot.

First see:
On how "terrible" the soviet military was before and after Tukachevsky's removal

Tukachevsky Confessed and his confession was written in Russian cursive in steady handwriting (his own as determined by comparison).

ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Дело_Тухачевского#/media/File:May_25_1937_Tukhachevsky_recognition.jpg

revolutionarydemocracy.org/rdv13n2/tukhach.htm

Tukachevsky was no "skilled general" as he is portrayed, in fact it was his blunders that led to the 1924 Polish-Soviet war being lost, even though the USSR was WINNING.

militera.lib.ru/research/muhin_yi01/03.html

sovnarkom.ru/BOOKS/MUHIN/VOINA_2/muhin2_01.htm

sovnarkom.ru/BOOKS/MUHIN/VOINA_2/muhin2_02.htm

I can go on an on but point is you're wrong.

As for ⛏️Trotsky⛏️…. well baby prepare your eyeballs.

read ⛏️Trotsky⛏️’s biography of Stalin, titled “Stalin: An Appraisal of the Man and his Influence.” You can read it for free online. It really exposes what a flagrant racist ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ was.

“The Tsarist government laid down the necessary strategic roads, partially renovated the cities, and established a rudimentary network of schools, primarily for the purpose of Russifying these alien subjects. Of course, in two centuries the Petersburg bureaucracy could not replace the old Asiatic barbarism with a European culture of which its own country was still in sad need.” – Chapter I.

“Trotsky’s mammoth biography Stalin (1940) not only belittles Stalin’s revolutionary activities but actually sees his life and ‘moral stature’ predetermined by his racially defined genetic composition; after discussing whether or not Stalin had ‘an admixture of Mongolian blood,’ ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ decides that in any case he was one perfect type of the national character of southern countries such as Georgia, where, ‘in addition to the so-called Southern type, which is characterized by a combination of lazy shiftlessness and explosive irascibility, one meets cold natures, in whom phlegm is combined with stubbornness and slyness.'” — Bruce Franklin, “Introduction to The Essential Stalin.”

Also a darling of some ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ists is George Orwell, who stated that it was hopeless to keep Asian communists from following Comrade Stalin because they were “barbarians.” In addition to his racism against non-whites, Orwell regularly and repeatedly wrote articles detailing the “racial inferiority” of Irish people and the need for their domination by the British, even after the (temporary) achievement of socialism in Britain. And that's not talking about his "list" of socialists handed
voluntarily in to the Big Brother he cursed.

From Joseph Goebbels’ diaries:

”Our clandestine radio transmitter from eastern Prussia to Russia is creating an enormous sensation. It operates in ⛏️Trotsky⛏️’s name, and is causing Stalin plenty of trouble”

”Now we work with three clandestine radio stations in Russia: first ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ist, the second separatist, third Russian-nationalists, all criticize Stalinism. They are an example of cunning and subtlety.”

Lenin on ⛏️Trotsky⛏️, revoking his previous warm feelings for him;

news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1899&dat=19880909&id=5BQgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=U2YFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2433,1012443&hl=en

gwydionwilliams.com/history-and-philosophy/why-trotksys-politics-achieved-nothing-solid/

His influence was questionable and his rhetoric during Lenin’s last days and after, revealed his true colors. He WOULD have implemented a true dictatorship in the USSR and probably drive the state into the ground too.

marxists.org/history/usa/parties/cpusa/anti-trotsky/Trotsky the Traitor - Bittleman.pdf
orientalreview.org/2011/01/11/episode-6-leon-trotsky-father-of-german-nazism-v/

marxism.halkcephesi.net/Grover Furr/Furr tortsky japan.pdf

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"Trotsky has never yet held a firm opinion on any important question of Marxism. He always contrives to worm his way into the cracks of any given difference of opinion, and desert one side for the other. At the present moment he is in the company of the Bundists and the liquidators. And these gentlemen do not stand on ceremony where the Party is concerned."

(Lenin, Collected Works, Vol. 20 p. 448, 1914).

"Trotsky behaves like a despicable careerist and factionalist of the Ryazanov-and-co type. Either equality on the editorial board, subordination to the central committee and no one's transfer to Paris except ⛏️Trotsky⛏️'s (the scoundrel, he wants to 'fix up' the whole rascally crew of 'Pravda' at our expense!) – or a break with this swindler and an exposure of him in the CO. He pays lip-service to the Party and behaves worse than any other of the factionalists."

(Collected Works, Vol. 34, p. 400).

"The struggle between Bolshevism and Menshevism is… a struggle over the question whether to support the liberals or to overthrow the hegemony of the liberals over the peasantry. Therefore to attribute [as did ⛏️Trotsky⛏️] our splits to the influence of the intelligentsia, to the immaturity of the proletariat, etc, is a childishly naive repetition of liberal fairy-tales.

…

Trotsky distorts Bolshevism, because he has never been able to form any definite views on the role of the proletariat in the Russian bourgeois revolution.

…

Therefore, when ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ tells the German comrades that he represents the 'general Party tendency' I am obliged to declare that ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ represents only his own faction and enjoys a certain amount of confidence exclusively among the otzovists and the liquidators."

(The Historical Meaning of the Inner-Party Struggle in Russia, Collected Works, Vol. 16 pp. 374-392).

"It is impossible to argue with ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ on the merits of the issue, because ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ holds no views whatever. We can and should argue with confirmed liquidators and otzovists, but it is no use arguing with a man whose game is to hide the errors of both these trends; in his case the thing to do is to expose him as a diplomat of the smallest calibre."

(Trotsky's Diplomacy and a Certain Party Platform, Collected Works, Vol. 17 pp. 360362).

"The obliging ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ is more dangerous than an enemy! ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ could produce no proof except 'private conversations' (i.e., simply gossip, on which ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ always subsists), classifying the 'Polish Marxists' in general as supporters of every article by Rosa Luxemburg…

Trotsky has never yet held a firm opinion on any important question of Marxism. He always contrives to worm his way into the cracks of any given difference of opinion, and desert one side for the other. At the present moment he is in the company of the Bundists and the liquidators. And thee gentlemen do not stand on ceremony where the Party is concerned."

(The Right of Nations to Self-Determination, Collected Works, Vol. 20 p. 447-8).

"Trotskyism: “No tsar, but a workers’ government.” This is wrong. A petty bourgeoisie exists, and it cannot be dismissed. But it is in two parts. The poorer of the two is with the working class.

War. To end the war by pacifist means is utopia. It may be terminated by an imperialist peace. But the masses do not want such a peace. War is a continuation of the policies of a class; to change the character of the war one must change the class in power.

The name Communist Party is theoretically sound. The Left socialists of other countries are too weak. We must take the initiative."

(The Petrograd City Conference of the R.S.D.L.P. (Bolsheviks) APRIL 14–22 (APRIL 27–MAY 5), 1917)

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lmao what does this have to do with ⛏️Trotsky⛏️? I never mentioned ⛏️Trotsky⛏️. ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ was an idiot. I don't care about ⛏️Trotsky⛏️.

I'm saying Tukachevsky was not guilty of the crimes he committed, because your evidence is that his confession (delivered while under duress) was legible, somehow indicating he didn't get the shit beaten out of him, apparently – and that his military competence was overrated. What a low bar to determine guilt in your world! This is thing with you guys, is that the moment you get any criticism you try to bury your critic under a mountain of horseshit and general foofaraw. And all this "Trotsky! ⛏️Trotsky⛏️! ⛏️Trotsky⛏️!" You're obsessed.

Nice try but all this happened before Leon was a boshevik ,when they were political enemies
Also cause you use Lenin(like a nice uneducated faggot that likes cults around leftists) lets see what Lenin said after ⛏️Trotsky⛏️
raped the white army:
"Comrade Stalin, having become Secretary-General, has unlimited authority concentrated in his hands, and I am not sure whether he will always be capable of using that authority with sufficient caution. Comrade ⛏️Trotsky⛏️, on the other hand, as his struggle against the C.C. on the question of the People's Commissariat of Communications has already proved, is distinguished not only by outstanding ability. He is personally perhaps the most capable man in the present C.C., but he has displayed excessive self-assurance and shown excessive preoccupation with the purely administrative side of the work.

These two qualities of the two outstanding leaders of the present C.C. can inadvertently lead to a split, and if our Party does not take steps to avert this, the split may come unexpectedly"
You see Lenin is not a huge FAGGOT and supports other leftists
also:
"I think that a fatal role was played here by hurry and the administrative impetuousness of Stalin and also his infatuation with the renowned "social-nationalism". Infatuation in politics generally and usually plays the worst role."
I challenge you to not use stupid stalinists as proofs and find me good criticisms of ⛏️Trotsky⛏️

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1922/dec/testamnt/index.htm

No I'm just stating that that alone makes him very suspicious and the other evidence, (discussed in my sources in detail) prove his guilt.

Yeah you didn't read anything that I wrote, did you? See

Also as for his "leadership"

"War Commissar ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ is often praised for being a great leader in the Civil War. However, in the summer of 1919 ⛏️Trotsky⛏️, stating that Kolchak was no longer a menace in the east, proposed shifting the forces of the Red Army into the campaign against Denikin in the South. This Stalin pointed out would have given Kolchak a much needed breathing spell and the opportunity to reorganize and re-equip for a fresh offensive. The Central Committee rejected ⛏️Trotsky⛏️'s plan and he took no further part in the campaign in the east, which led to Kolchak's defeat. Similarly with his plan for a campaign against Denikin through the Don steppes, an almost roadless region filled with bands of counter-revolutionary Cossacks. Stalin rejected ⛏️Trotsky⛏️'s plan and proposed advancing across the Donetz Basin with its dense railway network, good supplies of coal and sympathetic working-class population. Stalin's plan was accepted by the Central Committee. ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ was removed from the Southern Front and told not to interfere with operations that led to the defeat of Denikin." - Wilf Dixon, the Truth about Stalin.

You mean like Goebbels? Oh wait… You mean like Bukharin? Oh wait…

See statements like that show how retarded you are.

Are you mentally ill?

You stated this, and I quote, "I'm sure Tukhachevsky, the guy who developed Soviet deep operations theory, would've gone out on the streets terrorizing people with ⛏️TROTSKYITE pamphlets"

Who else are you talking about aside from ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ who was the chief ⛏️Trotsky⛏️ite but ⛏️Trotsky⛏️?

Who?????
BTW trying to downplay the importance of ⛏️rotsky
in the civil war is retarded .
Even fucking wikepedia and BBC accept his importance.
Also look i can use trots to prove my point,with actual links:
marxists.org/history/etol/writers/wright/1941/10/redarmy.htm

And you prove once more that you pay absolutely 0 attention to what I say. Western leftism is rife with ⛏️rotskyists. Especially BBC and Wikipedia.

oneparty.co.uk/html/wilftas.html

Also If you actually paid ANY attention I cited several straight up anti-communists. and anti-stalinists you ignorant moron.

You are right tha why ,after stating how important he was ,they say shit like:
"He was an ideologist and practitioner of the Red Terror. He despised 'bourgeois democracy'; he believed that spinelessness and soft-heartedness would destroy the revolution, and that the suppression of the propertied classes and political opponents would clear the historical arena for socialism. He was the initiator of concentration camps, compulsory 'labour camps,' and the militarization of labour, and the state takeover of trade unions. ⛏️rotsky was implicated in many practices which would become standard in the Stalin era, including summary executions"
Omg trots are truely spliters….
>Western leftism is rife with ⛏️rotskyists
Yes thats why we have a million site cleaning daddy stalins name( i actually agree that stalins crimes are mostly western lies)
But nice try dude
(I hope you are not that slav stalinist(

...

is there a new wordfilter? ⛏️rotsky

nice

Where did I say this you twat?

If you paid ANY attention to what I said you'd have noticed that this falls exactly with what I said; ⛏️rotsky was an opportunist just like Churchill who switched sides as he pleased.

I gave examples, but here are some more:

"I cannot call myself a bolshevik" - May 1917

"There is no better bolshevik than me!" - November 1917

Both are quotes by ⛏️rotsky within a SINGLE year. But hey lets harp on how liberal leftists moan about "communist crimes" whilst simultaneously promoting the same idea ⛏️rotsky did.

Name one mainstream popular source that does this… The only ones are historians like Rittersporn, Getty, Naumov, Zemskov, Tauger, Wheatcroft, and Kotkin. Not a single popular mass-media source is supportive of Stalin, and a massive number of "leftist" sites promote ⛏️rotskyite rubbish even while they criticize him.

I actually gave an argument in addition to an insult… you just give insults… says a lot.

My reference to ⛏️rotsky was clearly a sarcastic reference and not a ⛏️rotskyist statement or pro-Trotsky in any way. It's you guys who are obsessed with ⛏️rotsky and rooting out various ⛏️rotskyist conspiracies even when the people involved have nothing to do with ⛏️rotsky.

Typical Stalinism really.

...

They're fake-leftist morons. And even if they weren't how does that make BBC/Wikipedia True communism?

I know it was sarcasm, however its sarcasm that basically says "hurr durr everything is a trot conspiracy with you" and you mean it unironically.

Considering that its his movement, yes. People who follow ⛏️rotsky and his ideas generally behave no differently.

Maoism is its own thing and thus different than M-L. Stalinism isn't a thing, and ⛏️rotskyism is opposed to Leninism when it suits them.

Leftcoms =/= marxies.

1) Are you dyslexic? Or do you make it a habit to ignore what people write to make a fallacious point? I wrote what ⛏️rotsky wanted and what he did in both my own writing and in multiple sources.
2) Yes I have met Trots in real life, annoying bunch of arrogant, indecisive critics who collectively have less intelligence than a sodding jellyfish. They are to the Left, as Libertarians are to the Right.

Ia
No he said:
"The Bolsheviks de-bolshevised themselves, and I cannot call myself a Bolshevik. It is impossible to demand of us a recognition of Bolshevism. It is undesirable to stick to old labels."
So Leon didnt consider the name bolshevik good he didnt denounce socialism.
Also the second quote is fake
(Pls find me were Leon said that if you can)

You know even for a ☭TANKIE☭ this has to be the most retarded thing someone has ever said
No not realy ,like i am pretty sure most ml's disagree with lenin on some thinge but Maoism,hoxhaism,trotskyism are all leninist dude
Btw i am waiting to tell me what Leon did wrong what are those evil ideas he's supporters spread
Opportunism cause for an opportunist he did a good job in the civil war so what also Lenin seems to like him ,is Lenin stupid? Also even if he joined the bolsheviks just to gain power does this make him bad ?He was a communist so…..

(I'll try to awnser the other things after sleep bye!)

marxists.org/archive/lefort/1948/trotsky.htm

Trotsky you say didn't denounce socialism (and FFS do write slightly better this is autistic), well I never claimed that he did. However his actions and the actions of his followers (people who follow do the same or similar BTW) have gone against all socialism one has seen. It is for this reason he was exiled and it is for this reason he was and is disliked.

I already wrote it out. Get some glasses m8.

That has to be the most retarded sentence I have read outside of half-chan trash threads. This makes some of the tards on Zig Forums look positively intelligent. I literally gave a detailed example of how ⛏️rotsky's "leadership" nearly led to the destruction of the Red Army and USSR, not to mention encouraged a bloody and dictatorial mentality whilst simultaneously attacking Stalin later (but on far less grievous grounds).

Lenin tolerated ⛏️rotsky and later on near his death was quite negative towards him, which you'd notice if you read my sources carefully.

Yes, jeez how porked are you?

In what way?

So was Pol Pot, we all hate him, many people have claimed to be communist, but what matters is what they did, not what they said. ⛏️rotsky did far more to harm the revolution than help it, and his selfish stubbornness garnered well-earned scorn and irritation.

You literally haven't brought up a single point that hasn't been addressed by my 2-post rant. If you bothered to read carefully, instead of jumping up and shrieking you'd know that. Instead you're wasting space.

vocaroo.com/i/s1gkc2bP1uQE

wordfiltering ⛏️rotsky is so fucking autistic lol

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It seems to be part of the BO's scheme to make the board even more of a ☭TANKIE☭ echochamber.

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OMG
Tankies are retards but just let this thread die

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Is she/he/xe Trans or not?
acually dont say i'll become transphobic

i don't have a clue tbh

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