Should peterson fans be argued against? If so, how?
The demographic he targets is mainly a group of young men who are looking for some sort of meaning or guidance. Following him can lead to a rabbit hole of "justified" sexism, Autism Level determinism and possibly racial determinism (plus everything else reactionary).
Is this a good demographic to try to appeal to? What sorts of arguments can be used to show that his philosophy and his "science" are bunk and oversimplified?
Something short, clear, and snappy, to address the (few and sometimes intentionally hard to decrypt) arguments he makes.
For example, his claim that socialism is impossible because of the Pareto Principle.
Peterson's entire ideology is founded on Bulverism. Everyone outside of his hug box knows he is clueless about almost everything he opines on.
Cameron White
That's a tough question, in that Peterson really has no arguments or positions at all. The easiest thing to do is to just point out that his adherence to the "cultural marxism" conspiracy theory is telling as it's one, wrong and two, straight out of the propaganda machine of the NSDAP.
Andrew Mitchell
I get what you're saying, but I think you'll agree with me that that doesn't really help with convincing someone that they should abandon a leader who they believe is correct in their "analysis".
Just saying "they're dogwhistling", as true as it may be, does less to persuade than an actual argument.
Not saying arguments are necessarily the most productive thing either btw.
Oliver Gutierrez
We gain nothing by educating Peterson fans, so no
They are necessarily miseducated dupes and most of them are losers
Elijah Cook
When he attacks "Marxism", he in fact does no such thing. The only thing you can do is tediously point out that he sets up straw men, and all his arguments attack only those. It amounts to explaining basic Marxism to them.
It's generally futile, the fans are not open to being convinced and likely do not even get what you talk about and dismiss it as obfuscation.
Wow they really think everything he said is intelligent.
David Wright
Are there any actual men posting in this board? Seems to be filled with Daddy issue soy fags and pedo touched nutjobs whose wine drunk single moms got a little too friendly one night.
Christian Scott
nothing going on there, nothing at all
Aiden Williams
You visited the ara board recently didn't you?
Jordan Wilson
what is there to argue about? people only like him because he's the smart-sounding professor guy who "OWNS THE LIBS" in feminist cringe compilations. any "claims" he makes are mostly drowned out in the cognitive dissonance of racist rants and trump-isms.
Isaiah White
Seriously, is this a lefty Pol or a feminazi board or are they now the same? That is to say, is this board for men who are trying to find themselves or is this a board for men hating lesbos?
How can any men with two brain cells to rub together find Peterson objectionable?
Colton Jones
namecalling is weak and unmanly, but for some reason it's not below Petersonfags
Caleb Cruz
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Camden Edwards
I dunno, maybe his vulgar epistemological pragmatism? His conspiratorial rantings? His conflation of Marxism with Post-Modernism with Identity Politics? His nonsense claims about pictures of snakes mating from centuries ago being representations of DNA? His blatant lies used to misrepresent bill C-16? I could go on…
It seems my comment question is not for you. Perhaps others can see the goodness and Peterson's message without getting their retorical panties in a bunch
Zachary Lewis
Some say bucket oathers barrel. I'm not much of a stickler for idioms. Glad you got the meaning tho.
Christopher Barnes
Had to look that up. Now feeling sad for you that you had no need to…
Xavier Gonzalez
What message? That the cultural marxist sjw postmodernists are going to destroy western civilization if we don't give him shekels on patreon?
His message is for young men. If you're not then it has no relevance to you. That's why I'm asking if this is a femanazi board only now. If so, I'm talking to a wall.
Jordan Brown
If his message for young men is about postmodern neo-marxists destroying western civilization then it really have no relevance at all
Caleb Anderson
Go clean your room kiddo
Colton Powell
Half the shit he spews would not sound out of place on Memeri, m8
His message is for suburban white boys who are mad that their life isn't like the cancerous YA fiction they have been reading since childhood. Most guys get over that crap when they start actually interacting with people and realize that life isn't just about skills or Autism Level or whatever.
Lucas Jackson
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Nathan Butler
he makes some good points concerning femininity and masculinity, but his relevance to anything grounded in reality pretty much ends there. all his conclusions involve the use half-century-old frankfurt school conspiracy theories and comical levels of strawman (e.g. when he conflates postmodernism with marxism, which is constantly)
Robert Clark
Yeah, but if he catches them, he can keep them on that shit for a lifetime potentially. That's the danger I think
His message is for young men to grow and mature into adulthood. Unfortunately, it is not in the nature of women / mom to allow this to take place. Young men need father figures for emulation.
Joseph Flores
I'm pretty sure that is his goal. Instead of growing up and accepting that material reality defines the world he wants suburban boys to embrace a kind of strange reactionary idealism.
Luis Cruz
Do you realize how narcissistic this sounds?
Ethan Mitchell
Two points lost. Not too bright. It's ok. A man's worth is not wholly measured by his mental acuity. Honor is his duty to God and himself.
Jaxson Morgan
does Peterson sexually harass his own daughter if she wears lipstick?
Isaac Lewis
Well I think he's genuinely into it, like, he actually believes it, and the book sales/patreon bux are just a happy consequence.
But my concern is how to show those people he's full of shit. I have had a few discussions with peterson fans and none have turned out well, even if I have read his second book and watched a few lectures of his. He's very hard to argue about because he's such an obfuscationist.
Also, I didn't think anyone who browsed this board unironically supports him
Colton Morales
What are you? A fuckin D&D dm? Who talks like this?
Liam Richardson
What? Perhaps we understand the word differently.
It is not in the nature of women to guide men. Men respect strength and truth. Women, social consensus and acceptance.
Matthew Morgan
you do realize that's correct though? I hate Peterson but the idea of disillusioned youth needing responsible men to look up to as idols isn't exactly crackpot. I would expect a christian of all people to know this.
Cameron Mitchell
Did you just have a stroke?
Landon Perez
Im not talking, I'm writing. If I could talk like this I'd be in radio or stand up or something.
Jeremiah Davis
Why are young americans such fucking autists What is this nerd shit
Austin Lee
Wow does mention of God make you uncomfortable? Are you Satan or something?
Colton Bailey
The idea that women are sabotaging men is indeed crackpot. Peterson likes to identify a social ill in western societies that is caused by capitalism and blame basically everything else for it. Capitalism is liquidating traditional social relations, not "females." The solution isn't authoritarian government but the elimination of the American empire and capitalism.
Evan Jones
Pure idealism. All people "respect" strength because it translates into material consequences (i.e. pain.) Read Hobbes.
Josiah Kelly
Young men need older men for guidance and acceptance. Communidm, socialism, gangs, transgenderism, all these isms to make up for presence of fatherhood.
Jace Perry
You are a woman. There is no way that even a commie femanazi man would question that.
Wyatt Rodriguez
Peterson fans have daddy issues and are ineffectual to wider society, and Peterson is one of the worst hacks to enter popular consciousness. He's an astounding ignorant hypocrite who been consistently wrong about every subject he talks about.
Gabriel Baker
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Nolan Cruz
Behold the power of idealism.
Michael Cooper
State a unproven and unprovable opinion as fact to be accepted or else be cast into cauldron of wrongthink.
Jose Walker
You didn't have a father when you grew up did you?
Isaiah Allen
You do get it and hopefully it planted a seed in yours and others souls to blossom in future maturity.
Luis Peterson
Your shitty purple prose wouldn't get you on the radio mate.
Dominic Williams
No bro women are fine with being beaten as long as you do it within the social consensus. This should be obvious, they don't respect strength after all.
Yes, give us the platitudes - right into my veins
James Powell
Character assination. If you can't fight the idea, then fight the man.
Carter Turner
Agreed!
Asher Russell
Jordan Peterson is like a retarded version of Steven Pinker. What the fuck is up with scientism and New Atheism collapsing into Alt-Rightism?
Hunter Mitchell
Isn't that what Peterson et al do all the time though? Just look at
David Morales
Why don't you throw the whole logical fallacies chart at me :^)
Joshua Cox
So who pays you? Chinese? Russians?
Ryder Johnson
They start off asserting that what is must always be and then work backwards to justify that position. It's pretty hard to justify western imperialism and other evils of the 1st world without going full fash.
I think I'm just word fighting with paid agents now. Sort of surprised that this thread still exists. Would have thought that the admins in this board would delete this thread by now as too much under the mask is showing.
Anthony Johnson
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Logan Young
Most of us are paid by George Soros, that should be obvious.
Christopher Bell
Peterson's bullshit is refutable by fucking Wikipedia of all things. It's easy to see he's wrong but his cultists take whatever he says as God's word because they're desperate for a father figure, no matter how dumb that father is, or how empty its platitudes are.
Another pattern of you Peterson cucks is a total lack of self awareness, pseudo-intellectual aspiration, and projection. Any criticism of his ideas is treated as character assassination, or taking him out of context, or some other tenuous excuse for his bullshit ideas. You're a cult that can't be wrong, only wronged.
Back to reddit and your cancerous sub, bucko. Do you know where the fuck you are?
Jace Ross
How many layers of narcissistic idealism are you on man?
Which Dept are you in. Did you not get the latest memo?
John Sanchez
¨ You're fired, George.
Landon Russell
It's hard to believe that all this started because Peterson's female students stopped wanting to fuck him.
Michael Watson
Really? That sounds interesting. You have any details?
Jose Brooks
He's not serious, this started because Peterson got butthurt that he was expected to refer to transgender people by their preferred pronoun.
Brayden Howard
It started when Peterson realized how much money there is in the anti-SJW business.
Levi Cruz
meant for
David Powell
I just do the old routine until I get complaints, you'd have to be a shmo to keep up with every directive.
Dominic Davis
Correct, but he only began making that money when he drew attention whining about preferred pronouns and then ranting about his nonsensical "postmodern neo-marxism" boogeyman.
Nathaniel Cruz
I think it's actually pretty important to debunk and debate Peterson and his fans (up to a certain point of course, once full on indoctrination has set in it's not really possible)
I'll admit when the whole Toronto thing was going on I liked his lectures. I noticed that there were a few offhand remarks he made that were kind of dumb, but overall I found him to be quite engaging as a speaker. When I sat down to read his book it only took me about 20 pages to realize that he is a complete fucking nutjob.
However I wouldn't have even read it if I didn't see youtube videos of people reviewing it and pointing out all the dumb shit that was in it.
He likes to hide his crazy beliefs behind more reasonable ones, and he likes to position himself in front of crazy, less reasonable people to make himself look reasonable by comparison. That's why it is important for reasonable people to call attention to some of the stupid bullshit he tries to pass off as facts, because under it all he has nothing to offer except paleoconservatism
William Bell
Peterson is hard to make arguments against since most of what he says isn't bad on the face of it, it's generally how his statements can be interpreted that's the issue. Due to this it's difficult to bring up small critiques of him to his fans in order to work up to addressing his arguments on more important topics like socialism.
Brayden Martinez
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Joshua Lee
Imagine being 65 years old and going on Zig Forums to argue with children lmao
Sebastian Kelly
The whole concept of self improvement is already bourgeois idealism to begin with, that alone is already reason enough to hate Jordan Peterson for any genuine anti capitalist. Such self improvement is typically framed in such a way to make oneself more useful to capital, equating that to "success". The problem with the leftoid perspective on his fans is that most of left, even on Zig Forums and Zig Forums. would rather just rather just demonize his fans because they are "evul betas who don't respect wahmyn" as opposed to despooking them on how this self improvement bullshit doesn't help them at all. Which is a shame since Jordan Peterson's tradcon view on gender roles is actually very gynocentric, which tradcon bullshit generally tends to be. Not to mention a lot of the arguments made against incels on this board tend very much in a boomer/Jordan Peterson vein, leaving it up to personal responsibility and totally disregarding how people are shaped by the material conditions of this gay capitalist earth.
Spoken like a true NEET, of all the reasons to laugh at Peterson, his dad advice isn't among them.
Connor Cooper
t.virgin imagine unironically thinking what peterson says is important
Ryan Robinson
Even though that is the bullshit that upholds the logic of capital the most out of his entire "philosophy", not sure what you're doing on this board then
I think it is good to recognize that boys (and girls) need some kind of paternal influence. However Peterson cynically exploits this in order to get his atomized, virginal, alienated followers to support all types of reactionary shit so I would like to see him thrown off of a tall building.
"ARTICLE 12. In the U.S.S.R. work is a duty and a matter of honour for every able-bodied citizen, in accordance with the principle: "He who does not work, neither shall he eat."