I'm new to leftism and have been lurking here for a few days. I have to say it's not quite what I expected. I thought socialism was about helping people, creating a fairer society, protecting the weak and vulnerable. But most of what I read here is about killing people, praising dictators and conspiracy theories about how everything this board doesn't like is a conspiracy to stop communism from happening, as if some rich fat guys smoking cigars sit around a table and say to each other "How are we going to stop Zig Forums from implementing communism?" "I know a way, we will use transgender activism to divide them, so tell all our minions to take hormones and dress up like girls".
Why aren't you designing socialist systems to provide for people, like for example, an organization that provides home insulation with millions of members so that it can buy in bulk, or permaculture that provides richer crops while sustaining the environment?
Instead this board seems a lot like /r9k/ if they worked out their ideas more thoroughly and were angry about being poor instead of being incel. The whole world is bad, everyone is to out get you, people are mean, people are all sheeple ignorant of the system, everything that went wrong in my life has been done to me.. which means I'm actually the good guy for being filled with murderous hatred, it's just righteous justice for what chad&stacy/bourgeois denied to me. It's the school shooter ideology, it's the rationale of jigsaw from the saw movies.
So to sum up my question: why I should trust people who only have hatred in their hearts to have my best interest in mind?
it's an imageboard, what did you fucking expect. even an imageboard about psychedelic drug use, a community that is 90% peaceful bisexual polyamorous hippies who are into pseudo-eastern spirituality irl, is full of angry and bitter nerds.
Jose Davis
I guess you're right, which leaves me guessing while you're still here.
Thomas Carter
The board for the pacifist, utopian, postmodern, americanized """"""leftistis"""""" is at Zig Forums. You will fit there better
Robert Harris
I grew up on 4chan so I kinda "get" the format and the "culture" of imageboards. Also, this is one of the only forums for leftist discussion that isn't completely dominated by "idpol" and where you won't get banned for calling someone an idiot on the grounds that it is "ableism".
Camden Rodriguez
This board is crawling with baboons hungry for mango slices.
Michael Parker
Where did you get the idea we think anything is a conspiracy to stop the implementation of socialism?
Have you hung out in the Cybernetics / Cockshott threads?
Ian Campbell
you are so devoid of own thought and experience your entire post is a copy paste of fucking TYT phraseology read some fucking books on theory and history, fucking dumbass opinion-youtube drone
Aaron Hall
"most of what I read here is about killing people, praising dictators and conspiracy theories about how everything this board doesn't like is a conspiracy to stop communism from happening, as if some rich fat guys smoking cigars sit around a table and say to each other "How are we going to stop Zig Forums from implementing communism?" "I know a way, we will use transgender activism to divide them, so tell all our minions to take hormones and dress up like girls"."
different context, same retarded liberal nonsense as just over 100 fucking years ago Lenin
Wyatt Jones
You are in a fucking chan full of anglos Really leftypol is in no way a representation of leftism Read,create you own opinions and then come here…..
Sort of. What we want to do is develop a theory and a science that helps us better interpret society and the world, and use the knowledge we glean from it to construct something better. Politics is violence. This is something very basic you have to understand about history and our current society. A pacifist movement will simply be gunned down by reaction, who have no problem with political violence. Who are unfairly maligned by Western powers to justify imperialist war with their countries, reaffirm the Western political establishment, or both. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
Wow, even less than reformism, setting up fucking NGOs. The point is to change the system at it's fundamental economic and political organization, not put more Band-Aids on the cancer patient. The goal is the abolition of private property and generalized commodity production, which are the real social ills of our society, not to simply address the symptoms of those social ills.
That's not our outlook at all. Our outlook is that the system is fundamentally corrupt and that it must be changed at it's fundamentals, and that can only be achieved through mass action, and inevitably ends with violence, but it must be done to create a better world and, with the current rate of environmental destruction, preserve the human race.
SOCIALISM WILL BE BIRTHED FROM REVOLUTIONARY TERROR Honestly tho, this.
Michael Thompson
While I can't speak for anyone but myself of course, I think there are still a lot of people here who hold such goals as our primary motivation. Its just that we tend to be a lot quieter than the angrier folks on the board, plus as said imageboard communities tend to be at least a bit abrasive in general. Sadly the place seemed to be noticably nicer last year, though. Those types are generally ☭TANKIE☭s, and like most folks with more authoritarian views they're not always the most pleasant of people though I guess I'm biased since I lean more towards libertarian socialism or anarcho-communism. We used to have a lot more leftcoms and ancoms on the board who were generally much nicer, but the BO started banning people for disagreeing with his views on "imperialism", among other things… We used to have some threads for that sort of thing when the board was more active, but that sort of stuff generally isn't something that can be easily organized online by a bunch of people who live nowhere near eachother, you'd have better luck with a local organization such as D-S-A or IWW or Momentum or whatever. Also Google Bookchin I guess I'm repeating myself here, but I do think there's a quiet majority of users on this board who do genuinely just want to help people and make the world a better place, but if you're looking for actual activism and less of the anger typical to imageboards you'd probably have better luck with real-world socialist organizations or unions.
No shit, even if the only person we're helping is ourselves. this false dichotomy of "authoritarian = meanie" and "libertarian = fuzzy feels" is absolutely retarded. Nearly any revolution involves violence, and not being very pleasant, "authoritarian" or otherwise. And the reasons these "tankies" are defending dictators (I'm assuming you mean folks like Assad and not bullshit like "Stalin was an evil dictator") is because shit is made up about them a lot to justify intervention and they're currently resisting imperialism. That doesn't mean they like them, or that they even think they're "good" by any stretch of the imagination. Nearly everyone on this board wants true democracy, they don't like dictators. That's not just a "quiet majority", that's also those loud angry "tankies" too. They have every right to be pissed off, and not just because we're on an imageboard. You act as if revolutionaries in the past weren't angry, anarchist or marxist. Being angry about the current state of things isn't bad.
Total lack of historical understanding. Lurk and read more.
Ryan Gonzalez
most of those are spooks, but if you wish I do encourage you to pursue them yourself, I in fact like them too up here where I am winter is bad, but there is a general tendency to have WAY TO MANY blankets and coats literally filling your closet to bursting thus, charity of those things has become extremely common, have both benefited from it and contributed nobody really thinks about it, but you will never ever be in a situation where you need something and dont have it, as long as that thing is a jacket or blanket and I was a small part of that >>>/liberty/
Zachary Bailey
You think this because you don't know enough about the Marxist position to be saying anything about what it entails. First of all, the terms that you use to describe what you think socialism is are very ambiguous. Any number of reformist policies, which ultimately do nothing to advance the interest of the working class, could be justified with these terms. It seems to me as though you currently fit the description of bourgeois socialism outlined in the Manifesto. That is to say, you seek a redress of social grievances but only to the extent that revolutionary activity is avoided, and consequently seek to uphold the current state of affairs. You use the phrase "conspiracy theory" in order to make it seem as though it is unhinged to acknowledge the fact that worker movements have continuously been suppressed wherever they occur. From the streets of major European and American cities to Latin America and Iran, popular movements intent on reforms have been stifled. In many of these cases, with astonishing violence. The reform figure does not even have to be explicitly socialist. For example, United Fruit Company pretty much dominated several governments in the region. In Guatemala, the democratically elected government led by Jacobo Arbenz Guzman (hitherto JAG) wanted to institute land reforms which would've involved expropriation of UFC land. For this, the JAG government was toppled by Carlos Castillo Armas, the US backed right wing dictator in Honduras. Under the orders of Eisenhower, the CIA supplied and trained the forces led by Armas. This is the story of every attempt at self determination by the working class. The implication that this board is unjustified in believing that the ruling class has its common interest in stifling left wing movements is the most mind-blowingly awful part of a completely garbage post. Even fascists are aware of imperialism. Even for somebody new to leftism, this level of ignorance is unusual. It's a fucking joke to say that anybody here thinks that Zig Forums will implement communism or to assert that people here broadly believe that the bourgeois are interested in what goes on here. First and foremost, we already know it to be the case that your perception is utter garbage. Second, we, unlike /r9k/ incels are not informed by a vague feeling that something is wrong or that we have been wronged, but by a scientific analysis of capitalism and its effects. More delegitimizing of the basically uncontroversial observations that imperialism is an effect of capitalism that actively stifles left wing movements. Yes, people who commit atrocities in order to maintain a stable flow of profit are mean. Sue me for thinking so, bitch. From the Manifesto: "The Socialistic bourgeois want all the advantages of modern social conditions without the struggles and dangers necessarily resulting therefrom. They desire the existing state of society, minus its revolutionary and disintegrating elements. They wish for a bourgeoisie without a proletariat. The bourgeoisie naturally conceives the world in which it is supreme to be the best; and bourgeois Socialism develops this comfortable conception into various more or less complete systems. In requiring the proletariat to carry out such a system, and thereby to march straightway into the social New Jerusalem, it but requires in reality, that the proletariat should remain within the bounds of existing society, but should cast away all its hateful ideas concerning the bourgeoisie." You should not trust us, because we do not share common interests. The interests of the Marxists are in the enlightenment of the working class and the criticism of the present state of affairs while the interests of the bourgeois socialist (you) is in pursuing your delusion that the problems of social ills under capitalism can somehow be ameliorated without revolution.
Chase Howard
Continued from I shouldn't even have to say this because it's so obvious, but this depends on the person. ☭TANKIE☭s will defend the Warsaw Pact as examples of true socialism. Others will say that those nations are examples of degenerated worker's states and deformed worker's states. Still others will assert that these countries were state capitalist. Your criticism applies to a minority of users. I don't hold their position, they can defend it themselves. Way to miss the point of the criticisms of idpol movements made here. Our criticism is mainly that idpol misses the root cause of prejudice and instead seeks to do away with each individual prejudice. We say that the root cause of prejudice is alienation, which can only be done away with through revolution because it is inherent to capitalism. You may ask why alienation leads to prejudice. The answer is because, under capitalism, workers are always in competition with one another and consequently it is difficult to relate to each other. Because we know that attempting to solve social problems under capitalism is an exercise in futility. We aren't scared to admit that violence is necessary to advance the interests of the working class. It's hard to believe your claim that you've lurked here AT ALL because apparently you've not come into contact with the Stirnerite talking points that get floated around here. Except a vital component of socialist politics is class consciousness which means that we do not think that the masses are doomed to ignorance. Yet again, you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Yes, because acknowledging the social effects of capitalism means rejecting the notion of personal responsibility. You're a fucking idiot. I know this is just part of your horse shit narrative that we are the same as angsty retards who feel we are owed something, but I have to say that it's impressive how little you know about anything. Socialism has nothing to do with what people are owed or what they deserve. If this was true, there would not be a whole lot separating us from fascists. Marxism is a scientific investigation of capitalism and its effects and how it informs human behavior. Fascism is about "justice" and the idea that the race is owed a homeland. TL;DR: OP is the most vile sort of reactionary imaginable, one who masquerades as wanting to uplift workers, but who in reality seeks the complete subordination of the proletariat to capital.
Gavin Mitchell
First of all, this board is not a hug box, even if the staff would like it to be. Leftist politics are very ideologically diverse. Second, your notion of political malfeasance is rooted in cultural stereotypes. Real world conspiracies are not a matter of good and evil like the fairy tales you hear on InfoWars, they are simply how life works, because people in power have the money and influence to maintain their power. It would be insane if they didn't happen. For example, it is actually a documented fact, backed with ample evidence, that the US government used divide and conquer techniques to destroy its country's left wing: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
Socialism is an ideology, not a feeling. There is no ethical consumption or production under capitalism. While it is a good idea to use social activism to spread our ideas, it is incredibly naive and pointless to try to solve inherent systemic issues with charities.
This is like saying everyone who thinks they may have an illness is a hypochondriac. It is inhumane and ignorant to dismiss the very concept of an unjust society simply because some people have an unreasonable concept of justice. And even then, many incels do have legitimate mental and emotional issues they deserve help for. To shame them as evil is hypocritical and only serves to feed their delusions.
Bulverism. You are not actually addressing our criticism of capitalism, and apparently believe we do not even have any. My life is hardly unbearable, for example, but when I took the time to consider what radical politics actually believes, I felt like it made convincing points and was founded on a logically sound basis. In comparison, when was the last time you recall anyone willing to have a fair and rational discussion over the merits of capitalism? Most people will spout thought-terminating cliches at you and maintain that there is just no other choice, so we should shut up and accept it. It is a mentality rooted in Cold War sentiments, and cultural norms can be a dangerous thing.
Everything we do and say is for the sake of the greater good. We believe violence is unavoidable, not desirable, because class struggle is inherently irreconcilable. In fact, a first world revolution may not even have bloodshed, even if a threat of violence is necessary. The ruling class are not cartoon villains, they are only acting in their rational self-interest, like we are.
Colton Green
Where the fuck else do you think they sit, faggot?
I think I've seen this OP before (but not with a quote by Alan Watts, the Jordan Peterson for stoners). The whole line of argument I thought socialism was about helping people to everybody here is aggro and has paranoia about smoking porkies in their secret meetings etc is either an exact repost or very slightly rephrased. I'm unsure whether the person is just a lazy troll or whether hambaga culture has become so homogenized even in the tiniest details that people now come to write these clone paragraphs of identical thoughts structured in the same way presented with the same metaphors and humor and everything as a genuine expression of their clone personality.
you're not coming to an imageboard to actually study theory, the imageboard format is great to make joke, discuss shit casually, spout your opinions and references and vehemently disagree with each other it's fun, you can even learn from it but if you want to get serious, don't just spend your times on an imageboard, read nigga, READ, and organize IRL with ppl close from you
also, on an imageboard that is radical left with a lot of ML, most ppl agree on the current society being shit and why we actually need socialism, and that a revolution will necessarily be violent. So ofc, most jokes stem from this common understanding
dunno what youre on about trannies, nobody cares except poltard comin to troll us, they're such a minuscule issue and it's mostly irrelevant to what we propose. although many on the board do oppose retard liberals calling themselves leftist and completely ignoring economical issues to focus on race/gender bullshit. we mostly agree those problems stems mainly from capitalist, and serve essentially to divide and divert from important issues, whether through some CIA plot or simply ppl slurping the dominant ideology is ultimately unimportant, altho0ugh I'd bet most of us believe more the later even if joking about cointelpro and shit
Joshua Thompson
that's what all those "dictators" did, dipshit
Dylan Morgan
Not going to respond seriously to what's either b8 or an extreme display of liberalism, but i'd like to say something on this tidbit because i've heard this from liberals before
See, this is how the liberal sees the world, comprised of cartoony villains (terrorists are the flavour of the month) and "good guys". The world doesn't run like that though.
First-off, the bourgeoisie aren't an organized collective and only fight communism when it damages either their profits or the political stability of the environment generating them. The government will not censor or surveil neckbeards and limp-wrist pseuds on Zig Forums for shitposting about leftism on the internet, but the police will beat the shit out of those same people in a union protest. The establishment only reacts to perceived threats, in order to be able to keep the facade of freedom intact.
What the bourgeoisie sit around tables and organize (or to be precise, their lobbyists) are ways to maximize profits. This is what they're after, every political move in the current global political scene is motivated by profit generation (well not every, but i won't get into dprk/cuba etc). So you have to ask yourself, who benefits from "transgender activism"? Who lobbies and funds these NGOs? This is the mindset a marxist must have, and this type of research into things hasn't been cultivated in the liberal average joe. If you do some research, you will see that there are specific groups funding most research done on these fields, and a massive market creation opportunity for the pharma industry. Then of course, there is obviously the political opportunities these things present. Since most bourgeoisie parties follow more or less the same policies when it comes to major issues like foreign policy, there must be some minuscule differences that differentiate the 2. This progressiveness is also used to white-wash the genocidal crimes of Israel, by painting them as the "civilized" society that holds gay pride events in contrast to the "savage" muslims. If you don't believe me, check the sponsors of your country's pride parade and see if the embassy of Israel isn't there.
Benjamin Phillips
get a grip dude
Hunter Brown
thats why all leftists get butthurt about even the most minor of economic reform, cry about "neoliberalism" conspiracy theories and fetishize schools hospitals and unions
Hunter Cox
The worst part of this post is that you're stupid enough to think this is some kind of argument and/or burn
