What do Marcyites consider this?
China Takes Port from Sri Lanka as Debt Payment
James Martinez
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afcea.org
andrewgrantham.co.uk
railwaygazette.com
worldfinance.com
ssa.gov
straitstimes.com
sundaytimes.lk
economictimes.indiatimes.com
en.wikipedia.org
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Benjamin Cruz
China is imperialist.
Kevin Baker
China is socialist, Sri Lanka is capitalist. What's wrong with a socialist country taking control of something in a capitalist country? Would you be mad if the USSR assumed control of an American port?
Grayson Young
Heard you talking shit.
Luke Perry
Why do liberal sacks of shit consider this a newspaper worth posting? It consistently lies about everything.
The NYT should ask what US has done for Sri Lanka
>When the report called the Hambantota Port a failure because it drew only 34 ships in 2012, it selectively didn't mention that the number increased to 335 in 2014 and the port made an operating profit of Rs. 900 million ($5.69 million) in 2014 and Rs. 1,200 million in 2015, said Rajapaksa.
globaltimes.cn
Michael Barnes
Taking land from indebted countries is socialism now?
Sebastian Russell
It's not "taking land," it's a lease in an agreement. Here's another article:
moonofalabama.org
Key points:
-NYT intentionally lies in their article about the profits and traffic of the port
-Sri Lanka's net external debt to foreign countries is some $52 billion
-Over the last twelve years Sri Lanka received about $8 billion in loans from China some of which are already paid back. Its current obligations to China of about $5 billion are only 10% of its total obligations.
-All of the Chinese loans were bound to infrastructure development: power plants, ports, highways and airports. IMF loans Sri Lanka received come with political demands like increases of value added taxes. China does not set such conditions.
Connor Robinson
I know NYT is a shitty rag, but come on.
Chase Rodriguez
Global Time is better than NYT, if you disagree you are a Yank chauvinist. Also, you can't refute what they wrote in their response.
Michael Torres
>(1) the concentration of production and capital has developed to such a high stage that it has created monopolies which play a decisive role in economic life; (2) the merging of bank capital with industrial capital, and the creation, on the basis of this “finance capital”, of a financial oligarchy; (3) the export of capital as distinguished from the export of commodities acquires exceptional importance; (4) the formation of international monopolist capitalist associations which share the world among themselves, and (5) the territorial division of the whole world among the biggest capitalist powers is completed. Imperialism is capitalism at that stage of development at which the dominance of monopolies and finance capital is established; in which the export of capital has acquired pronounced importance; in which the division of the world among the international trusts has begun, in which the division of all territories of the globe among the biggest capitalist powers has been completed.
marxists.org
Charles Lee
So the British 99 year lease of Hong Kong wasn't a land grab?
Robert Martin
The CPC controls the commanding heights of the economy, it does not obey the same rules as bourgeois monopoly capital. Moreover, you can't isolate a single quote from Lenin's Imperialism, as he gives varied descriptions throughout. Other criteria he mentions are that an imperialist country is in a stage of capitalism in decay, which China plainly is not, and that imperialism is marked by overall parasitism, while there is no evidence that China is parasitic overall.
Jonathan Richardson
Are you under the impression China is still capitalism on the rise?
Austin Bailey
Landon Martinez
You Trots are always the same, you will grasp for any historical analogy and discard all context. The Hong Kong lease was signed at gunpoint after centuries of colonialism and forced opium trade, and Hong Kong was an entire territory, not a single port.
In contrast, Sri Lanka signed a deal for a reasonable loan under no compulsion. There is absolutely no evidence that China is engaging in predatory loans. It is perfectly possible to fail to pay on normal loans. Sri Lanka still gets all the benefits of a port, as well as the many other infrastructure deals that they are working on with China.
Blake Ortiz
You have to be utterly delusional to believe that China is in a state of decay.
epic
Zachary Fisher
Isaiah Sanders
...
Noah Campbell
Yes, China is capitalist and imperialist. Everyone who isn't a completely braindead Marcyite or Dengist knew this already.
Mason Moore
What's the problem with quoting Lenin? It wasn't just some random quote, nor off topic. I think you just dislike being proven wrong.
Nicholas James
There's no difference between a corporate monopoly and a state monopoly, especially in China's case where the State Owned Enterprises all have some amount of shares, securities or bonds that are for sale on the stock market.
China's purchases of US T-bonds, used as a secure source of income, directly supports the US by keeping their bond prices high. Meanwhile China's leadership does nothing but sell the country out to American companies as their own personal cumdump, though this is ending as their attempts to buy out US firms have been successfully rebuked leading to markets becoming bearish. It's within these markets the parasites lie, and China's government not only sanctions it and tolerates it but encourages exploitation through state-subsidized infrastructure projects which are designed to operate at a profit - a thing the state should have no concern with when providing basic services.
Look at the Belt and Road initiative, which is done to encircle India and prevent them from making friends in central asia. Even if we can justify that as anti-imperialism, China's government wants to profit from these ventures and will seize them as their property if local people don't pay, creating a monopoly they control exclusively, doing nothing but gouging local people who no longer have control over their infrastructure but still must use it. This is parasitism.
Jonathan Campbell
You're a Trot.
Noah Cruz
Defense is done with nukes, aircraft and guns. It is not done by inviting foreigners into your country so they can exploit workers, then defend it as "the right side of history" when your ability to exploit is constrained by taxes (a tariff).
Wyatt Martinez
lolwut
Ian Sanders
Noah Reyes
lolwut
The book is full with empirical data, you moron, just like Lenin's original.
Austin Miller
No, as this shows Marcyites betray their Trot tendency by whining incoherently about China.
Nothing wrong with quoting Lenin, but there is something very wrong with selectively quoting him to try and abstract imperialism away from its fundamental parasitic nature, which Lenin was adamant about.
Except that the state monopoly is under political control of the world's largest communist party.
China's economy has grown massively and their concrete productive forces have also grown accordingly. Incidentally the same has happened in Vietnam, which has adopted a similar economic system. Compare that to India, and it is clear that there is a qualitative difference between an imperial puppet government and the system of Chinese Socialism/Primary Stage of Socialism. You even admit this:
but you laughably portray this as some kind of magical development. What kind of "cumdump" country is able to worry the US so much? Moreover you are lying, the real reason the US is lashing out is Made In China 2025, China's push to eliminate the USA's imperialist monopoly on tech.
So if infrastructure is such a great imperialist investment, where are all the bullet trains in Afghanistan and Iraq? Why are all of the participating countries so unconcerned about this so-called imperialism?
Aaron Peterson
The author of that book is a Marcyite, this is a fact.
Proofs.
So where's the data proving that China is internationally parasitic overall?
Ryder James
I actually highlighted the parts about its parasitic nature in my original post, you utter moron:
I'm quoting the part where he SUMS UP what imperialism is, you utter moron.
Zachary Martin
Yeah, like that worked before. I'm done with you.
Ryan Green
>The author of that book
Julian Cruz
This technically implies parasitism, but depends on the correct interpretation of what he is describing, in context. Since Lenin specifically mentions parasitism in other parts of the book, it should be mentioned separately because otherwise you will do as you are doing, attempting to imply that any country that happens to export some capital or rent some territory is imperialist.
And where he explicitly states that it can't really be summed up in that manner. It leaves out (and only implies) his lengthy arguments about decay and parasitism.
Wyatt Gonzalez
Andrew Parker
So you claim China is parasitic overall, you give no evidence, and then act indignant.
Christian Thompson
yeah and all the profits are split amongst the senior leadership instead of going into a general fund with tax revenue. This is capitalism as practiced by the state, a concept known as "state capitalism". Venezuela does it too. Socialism is when state enterprises are explicitly not operated for profit, one such example is Amtrak (which despite being American, is closer to the socialist ideal than any SOE owned by the CPC).
America doesn't have a monopoly on tech, it's shared with most other countries including China who just copies everything much to everyone else's chargin. The Made In China 2025 plan to price crash the market and force everyone onto Chinese products is a typical capitalist tactic, which is how capitalists were so quick to recognize and organize successfully against it.
The US government rebuilt Iraq's railroad network and installed a modern GPS-based signalling network to allow for trains to be controlled (and remotely disabled by the US military forces in the region). This was useless against the ISIS offensive as soldiers abandoned their positions because they didn't want to give their lives to an imperialist-controlled vehicle. This is one of indications that ISIS is a revolutionary movement, even if a spooked one - capitalists lost against it because they did not recognize it and their staff revolted.
afcea.org
andrewgrantham.co.uk
The same will befall most of China's Belt and Road projects, once people get sufficiently angry at their imperialism. Instead of learning and avoiding the mistakes America made, China is repeating them step for step.
Anthony Nelson
Right, a better analogy would be the 99 year lease on the Suez Canal which was a major infrastructure project for the benefit of Egypt for which they sold their share under no compulsion to pay external debt.
Cooper Ross
You have absolutely zero proof of this. What a joke. Here's China limiting SOE executive pay to 10x the average:
worldfinance.com
lmao read Lenin
Kill yourself gusano.
The rest of your post is similarly delusional trash, shut the fuck up Yankee.
Matthew Richardson
What about Lenin? According to him the USSR during the NEP was state capitalist so it is absolutely not a stretch to imagine he would view China in a similar way.
I bet you're a whiteboy from western europe or something.
Jaxon Sanders
wow so it's just like in America where their pay (salary) is only 10x the average while all the money is in stock. This does literally nothing because the market is still there, and China's government actively encourages participation (exploitation of workers) with it.
Have fun in 5-10 years when pissed off and bankrupt Pakistanis simply seize the things China built for them (in the same way a farmer builds a milking machine). China won't be able to do shit because Pakistan has nuclear weapons, a valid defense against imperialism. See
Julian Gutierrez
False, average CEO pay in companies with high revenue is over 300x worker pay. You are a lying piece of shit.
What the fuck are you talking about? China is building infrastructure, if bankrupt Pakistanis seize that, it would mean a communist revolution, which would be fantastic.
Jordan Hill
ITT:
Absolutely shameful.
Cooper James
US media is attempting to demonize a rivalling capitalist state which is likely to replace the them as the world's most powerful capitalist nation sometime in the future, yes. This is true.
Nicholas Parker
Exactly, through the use of stocks and bonds not covered in China's policy which you must know about. You are a lying piece of shit.
But not fantastic for China, as now all the bonds, bond-backed securities, and other financial products based off that project are nonpreforming aka total losses. China's capitalists in the government will feel the most pain as they are paid in these instruments, as all capitalists are in all countries that practice capitalism. Which is why China is capitalist, and thus imperialist.
Noah Collins
Brayden Moore
Oh no no no no
Oliver Miller
b-but anons, china's imperialism offers a better deal than USA's imperialism!
Zachary Butler
Jason Robinson
I mean the ussr is dead and I don't believe antifa to be a credible threat to right wing armed governments for now should violence escalate in western countries, and especially america
Hunter Nguyen
Evan Jenkins
Yes because i am a dumb reactionary who fails to look at the biggest picture.
This is the party and flag of china, the fact we are complaining that some american dick sucking capitalist country got their port schemed by pic related is laughable and shows the state of leftypol
Luis Watson
Were they /ourguys/?
Go back to twitter faggot
Levi Gonzalez
...
Daniel Morgan
take that fucking flag off,, not even ☭TANKIE☭s are this autistic.
Logan Reed
a normal shitty apartment in communist China costs 100 dollars a month, food is around 100 dollars a month, and low income jobs average at around $1,800 a month.
Meanwhile an apartment in America is 1000$ a month and low income pay is around 2800$ a month.
I would much rather live in china, their working class actually has prospects and a future. all that extra income.
Chase Walker
Thanks for letting us know. Now back to the topic at hand.
Oliver Wilson
...
Noah Price
something like 70% of youth in China own their home too
Liam Moore
That’s $33,600 a year. 49-55% of American workers make less than that.
ssa.gov
Xavier Diaz
JVP>LTTE
Eli Kelly
Also if you don’t see any problem with a large country using predatory lending schemes to literally sieze control of territory in a small, weak country, then you are beyond saving. It’s blatant imperialism, even more barefaced than the shit the IMF pulls off.
Sebastian Morales
I don't put blind faith in anything…
China is the exception.
SOCIALISM BY 2050! THE RED SUN RISES IN THE EAST!
Luis Nguyen
Time to drain the swamp and fill it with the waters that clean pure wisdom that the Great and Honorable Chairmen Xi brings! No more counter revolutionaries only Mao now.
straitstimes.com
Jeremiah Collins
But it's socialist capitalism and socialist imperialism!
Daniel Taylor
Fake News
Aiden Richardson
They're not predatory you stupid fuck, they're zero interest loans
Jose Moore
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't IMF loans contingent upon neoliberal restructuring of recipient economies?
Jordan Clark
Yes, contrasted to the Chinese loans that are zero interest and come with no strings attached. They're as good as a loan can get.
Aaron Green
Socialism wins again.
Thomas Carter
Yeah until you can’t pay them and the Chinese government seizes control of your ports.
Hunter Smith
Ironic that Britain founded Hong Kong in a similar manner but using military rather than economic coercion.
Christian Allen
lmao they wouldn't even think to pull this kind of shit on the US or EU
Justin Lewis
Ah yes the PLA descended upon Sri Lanka seizing the port and killing countless civilians….
Lincoln Perry
We both know that American and Europe have subjected countless countries to imperialism without firing a shot. Neo-colonialism is defined by the use of tools other than military force to coerce countries into submission.
David Taylor
what a vague statement. Colonialism where? In China? Serious attempts at colonialism in China didn't happen until the Opium War, when the British annexed Hong Kong.
Vague wording. Centuries of forced opium trade? Anyway it's misleading. Opium trade became a deliberate policy for maybe 10 to 20 years before the Opium Wars. It also became a popular commodity because of the breakdown of the Qing dynasty that preceded the British trade.
Most of it unused and rocky nonarable land.
Hunter Ward
physical coercion is so last century
Xavier Ward
It unironically is.
Grayson Morris
M8 most of them did during the cold war, and continue to do so now actively arming factions in those reasons
The most China could do is maybe leverage economic sanctions, and one part hardly compares to an entire island
Alexander Long
First off, sanctions can cripple a country’s economy, look at what happened to the DPRK. Second, if China is Sri Lanka’s main creditor, then they could threaten to cut off the loans, which would bankrupt their government and destroy their economy. Finally, if push comes to shove they could stage a coup. The fact is that we don’t know what China would have done if Sri Lanka had refused to pay collateral for the loans, but if you think they wouldn’t have done everything in their power to put Sri Lanka in check then you are deluding yourself. Even if all China could do was some weak sanctions, that would be a reflection of China’s inability to do something more destructive, not an unwillingness.
So I guess the Americans occupying Gitmo isn’t imperialism either then right?
Tyler Sanders
...
Charles Young
Until they literally begin taking your ports like its the 1800s kek?
Christopher Adams
Remember when leftypol was filled with anarchists and defending the DPRK would make look retarded back then? Well looks like the same thing is happening with defending China.
Luis Walker
Christopher Rivera
Comparing China to empires that murdered 100 million+ people is retarded.
Brandon Harris
Angel Green
ITT: people who have never read Marxist/ML theory and falling for the meme of a rising capitalist power being socialist "because they say so!!1"
Charles Evans
treaty ports unironically helped develop china's industrial and mercantile base
Jayden Parker
China’s imperialism is just getting started. Give them some time. I guarantee you that by the end of the century, if the capitalist world order still stands, Chinese troops will be deployed around the world and gunning down brown kids in Afghanistan.
Sebastian Mitchell
t. the soviet union
Juan King
Wage labor already existed as far back as the Ming Dynasty.
Excising bourgeois-nationalist states is not imperialism.
Matthew Clark
Socialist states can't be imperialist.
Luke Ross
*invades your independent nation and installs puppet dictator*
*reorients your economy to serve the motherland*
Heh, nothing personal imperialist
Jayden Bailey
Yeah but China ain't fucking socialist as shit like this proves
It is literally seizing land from another Nation for the purpose of economic Benifit
How is that not imperialism
Carter Evans
Hot take
Only Dengists think China is socialist
Jaxon Lewis
You're an idiot. China has collectivism and it has private ownership of the means of production. Those two traits clearly show China to be an authoritarian capitalist/fascist state.
Michael Wood
Real smooth brain hours
Isaac Anderson
Again implying things the USSR never did. Imperialism is specific to capitalism, read Lenin.
Joseph Perry
Wewest of lads
Landon Murphy
Tbh I think we need to reconsider Lenin’s definition of imperialism to include strategic imperialism, which I would define as the use of coercion against a country in order to gain a military or strategic geopolitical advantage over your rivals.
Jace Diaz
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