Trotskyite reading

What are some good "for beginners" books to read in order to to get into ⛏️rotskyism?

Note: I have read Wage Labour and Capital, the Communist Manifesto and Social Reform or Revolution so far.

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Other urls found in this thread:

marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/index.htm
workers.org/marcy/#articles
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/decades-index.htm
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1920/terrcomm/index.htm
marxists.org/reference/subject/economics/proudhon/1847/jews.htm
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Conference_of_Marxist–Leninist_Parties_and_Organizations_(Unity_&_Struggle)
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1936/revbet/index.htm
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1931/tpr/index.htm
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1930/hrr/index.htm
reddit.com/r/communism/comments/wisiw/basic_marxismleninism_study_plan/
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1936/revbet/
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/idom/dm/index.htm
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1939/xx/3concepts.htm
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1924/lessons/index.htm
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1938/tp/
marxists.org/history/etol/writers/slaughter/1960/10/leadership.html
marxists.org/history/etol/document/icl-spartacists/1962/perspective.htm
marxists.org/history/etol/document/icl-spartacists/1972/genesis.htm
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

If you really have to, just pick something from here:
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/index.htm
Wash it down with some Marcy though, one of the least-worst Trots:
workers.org/marcy/#articles

And then go back to reading the good stuff:
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/decades-index.htm

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marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1920/terrcomm/index.htm

That's really not enough to be wasting your time with ⛏️rotsky yet. Consider that ⛏️rotsky's only ostensible redeeming aspect is when he temporarily renounced ⛏️rotskyism and worked with Lenin. You should prioritize Lenin's important works such as State and Revolution, Imperialism and What is to be done. As well, you should continue reading more Marx. Capital is a pretty big undertaking, but it's certainly more important than ⛏️rotsky. Get around to it after you've built up an understanding of the basic theory of Dialectical and Historical Materialism.

I remember one of the few Trots I liked was Ernst Mandel.

In all seriousness go read more Marx first. What you have is really barebones, even I have read more.


Like clockwork.


Mandel is probably one of the best trots.

Marx is overrated.

t. hasn't read Marx

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If Marx was overrated, why can't philosophers, economists and social scientists not stop obsessing about him since the day he died up until the year 2018?

Bakunin, Proudhon and Stirner all understood the nature of the free human better than him and tbqh nothing based on Marxism ever turned out to be good in the end. And yeah I read Marx's basic works.


Ummm. You are just proving me right here. Marx is discussed and pushed by the elite intellectuals and retards use him as a strawman to attack the entire left… while people like Kropotkin and the guys I mentioned above are being ignored entirely in mkst places.

Not a trot but I've enjoyed The History of the Russian Revolution, The War and the International, Revolution Betrayed, ABC of Dialectical Materialism, What is Fascism and ⛏️rotskys military writings

Kek

Why is ⛏️rotsky hated so much by so much of the left?

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They dont really hate him
Trots have a worst reputation than Leon
Due to mainly shitty stereotypes

marxists.org/reference/subject/economics/proudhon/1847/jews.htm

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wot

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like clockwork


well… that's just sad

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Being anti-revisionist is good, and necessary. Taking your pick of the "worst one" is reactionary; it ignores the entire point of anti-theism by implying some religions are better than otherd, when by the fact that they are religions they are harmful

Anti-religion fuck

1. Not an anarchist
2. The problem isn't "freedom" you sperg. It's when you claim this whole human nature excuse for a reason you place bakunin and proudhon over Marx, which is stupid

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Read Posadas

This Comrade gets it. Posadism is actually not a meme like most of the dumbasses on here would have you believe, It was hugely popular in South America, though we only revived it with memes.

Posadas back in the day was not a meme
Posadas was considered a typical theorist(you could see some quotes of him in revleft) until some liberals misunderstood him and started memeing that he was an apocalyptic alien cultist

So kind of like what happened to Hoxha?

Not really hoxha was always important in maoist(yes people forget that most antirevisionist were maoist before anglo staliNEETism took over) cycles
Many parties split after mao's death either with the gang(hoxhaist) or with the new leader(three worlds theory) most of them forget there differences and unite but today we still have a weird mix of maoist,with hoxhaist characteristics with a very interesting international
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Conference_of_Marxist–Leninist_Parties_and_Organizations_(Unity_&_Struggle)

Oh man, I think I've already read their international magazine in the past, never knew that they were Hoxhaist beforet though

Someone reported this thread lol.

Note: being a ⛏️rotskyist or asking questions related to ⛏️rotskyism is not against the rules.

It should be.

It should be.

Trots have never been a really big thing or problem here though. Even a couple years ago when ⛏️rotskyite opinions were very popular and widespread, people all made fun of Trots. You still see this in Democrat Cops of America, members who are really in total agreement with a lot of modern ⛏️rotskyism deride and mock Trots. It's some kind of rebrand/disavowal.

...

I honestly Had brought this up on the other board about Posadism in the 21st century, and immediately got saged saying "Its a meme dipshit" like there was no discussion at all. Because we had turned a legit ideology into a meme (by we I am refering to those who misunderstood Posadas' work)

The "Big Three" for ⛏️rotsky are:

The Revolution Betrayed
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1936/revbet/index.htm
The Permanent Revolution
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1931/tpr/index.htm
The History of the Russian Revolution (long as shit but very good)
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1930/hrr/index.htm

this ML reading list from plebbit is actually pretty good: reddit.com/r/communism/comments/wisiw/basic_marxismleninism_study_plan/

as others have pointed out there's a lot more material to go through before it's even worth spending time with ⛏️rotsky

They are not all hoxhaist
But most of the are cultist of x stalinist figure

You guys spout this same phrase so much it reminds me of christians.

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Imagine my shock

...

The Revolution Betrayed
Trotsky explains what the USSR is as a degenerated workers' state. Absolutely essential for any understanding of ⛏️rotskyism.
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1936/revbet/
In Defence of Marxism
Trotsky defends the USSR from Shachtman in the context of the Soviet-Nazi pact
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/idom/dm/index.htm

Three Conceptions of the Russian Revolution
Here ⛏️rotsky describes the Menshevik, Lenin's, and ⛏️rotsky's understanding of the Russian Revolution in a short and straight-forward manner. I recommend this as an introduction.
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1939/xx/3concepts.htm
Results and Prospects and The Permanent Revolution
Trotsky first introduces his theory of Permanent Revolution in Results and Prospects. This was before he became a Bolshevik.
Trotsky further developed his theory of Permanent Revolution in responce to Socialism in One Country and the international implications it resulted in Permanent Revolution
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1931/tpr/index.htm

Terrorism and Communism
Trotsky's response to Kautsky. Asserts the importance of the dictatorship of the proletariat and the need for repressive measures.
Lessons of October
Trotsky discusses the unfolding of the Russian Revolution
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1924/lessons/index.htm

The Transitional Program
Here ⛏️rotsky provides the cornerstone of the ⛏️rotskyist conception of organization. Fundamental for an understanding of what ⛏️rotsky wanted from his movement.
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1938/tp/
What is Revolutionary Leadership by Cliff Slaughter
An old influential document not written by ⛏️rotsky himself but one that combines together a Leninist conception of organization with the ⛏️rotskyist crisis of leadership. Highly recommend it.
marxists.org/history/etol/writers/slaughter/1960/10/leadership.html

Pabloism was a revisionist tendency that arose in the post-war period that really did a number on the Fourth Internationale. The following are documents from the Sparticist League that describe the origin of Pabloism and relates that tendency to the trend of Stalinophilia and Stalinophobia in the movement.
marxists.org/history/etol/document/icl-spartacists/1962/perspective.htm
marxists.org/history/etol/document/icl-spartacists/1972/genesis.htm

Trotsky considered himself a Marxist and a Leninist, so getting a background on Marx, Engels, and Lenin are also necessary. You should have a better background on these figures before going into ⛏️rotskyism.

The difference is that people who refuse to learn about far left theory still have strong opinions about it. In comparison, non-religious people mostly don't care what holy scripture says.

shut up and read marx you fag

...

The articles are a refutation of Shachtman user

Good post

It's only a matter of time.

BO is a butthurt faggot who has hordes of lapdog MLs who rabidly agree with whatever stupid shit he decides to do this week to make it harder to seriously discuss ⛏️rotsky or his work. From filtering names to giving out four week bans for anyone who disagrees with his retarded opinions on what constitutes "imperialism" (if you're reading this BO, yes, your opinions on imperialism are retarded; read a fucking book, Lenin was not using the word imperialism the same way you do).

I don't understand why he doesn't just fucking make this an official Marixst-Leninist board already. That's clearly what he wants: He's already more or less forced anarchists and democratic socialists off this board and now he's going after Trots. He should quit being a little pussy and just stand by his convictions instead of being a bitchy coward who hides in the shadows while he bans people, adds passive aggressive word filters, and generally makes this a hostile environment for anyone who isn't a Stalinist.

It's really weird. I remember back in the day, /marx/ was the ML board. I mean, the reason why /marx/ never got very popular was because the original BO over there before Ismail took over doxxed people he disagreed with. Zig Forums in the beginning was basically anarchist. Then for a while it was dominated by social-democrats. Now it's Stalinist. I even remember a time when we had so lax moderation, people were actually clamoring for more moderation and people would complain about how bad the moderation of Zig Forums was. The moderation isn't consistent.

It's one of the main problems in leftist spaces actually: Any time you try to make a "big tent" forum or community, it inevitably gets taken over by a bureaucratic clique of Stalinists because the only thing Stalinists do better than any other leftist tendency is forming bureaucratic cliques.

And of course, the reason the moderation is inconsistent is because there are a few volunteers who haven't completely lost their minds and work around most of BO's especially stupid decisions.

I don't think the lack of consistency is a good thing though. It means that the people who end up getting banned becomes arbitrary. Having a consistent line would mean consistent bannings. Honestly, the problem is with lack of transparency. I remember a time when Zig Forums tried its hardest to be transparent, and this was back when the site administration hadn't found ways to undermine spam raids yet, and Zig Forums was plagued with fascist raids.

This is absolutely false. The vast majority of "Big tent" left communities are owned by socdems, trots, or radlibs. Take the reddit boards for instance, such as /r/ chapotraphouse, socialism, lsc, anarchism, fullcommunism, etc. /r/communism isn't even run by "Stalinists," it is run by ultras. The only sizeable orthodox M-L community on the English-speaking internet is on Twitter, where everyone just forms their own groups.
As for Zig Forums, M-Ls have become more prominent and Zionist Bookchinite anarchists ran away, but less-retarded anarchists have stayed. Trots are allowed, socdems are allowed, they are just not allowed to post really dumb shit about Palestine for example.

You're confusing irl communities with online communities, because trotanon is completely right for irl parties. Pop-front coalitions tend to be dominated by Stalinists. I guess nowadays because Stalinism is seen as discredited, you get Eurocommunist types of different shades ending up dominating these kind of orgs. But Eurocommunists anti-stalinism is basically just Pabloism anyways.

If you think r/communism and r/fullcommunism aren't overwhelmingly run by MLs and MLMs, you are too far gone that I can't help you.

And I never posted anything against Palestine. I received a four week ban for calling Maduro incompetent, which he objectively is.

Pop-front or "big tent?" There is a difference. Let me know when the vile big tent orgs like Syriza, Democrat Cops of America, Podemos, etc. get taken over by ☭TANKIE☭s.

And now you're even contradicting yourself.


I said /r/communism is dominated by ultras, which is what most MLMs are.

Good, hope you get banned again.

While i have joked about being a crypto-trot ,i am not i just like them cause of my history in revleft.
The ⛏️rotsky word filter is literally the most retarded,sectarian bullshit i have ever seen.
Trots are rare and make some good posts, the fucking BO whould agree with Leons anti-imperialist views
So..why the hell make the most reddit tier joke ever..

Are you retarded
Also
Radlibs can be socdem,trots and ☭TANKIE☭s
In general staliNEETs do dominate many leftist spaces
For example
Revleft had mostly leftcoms,ancoms,trots,hoxhaist(no maoists for some reason)
But later more and more anglo fags started joining(especially wit the bans)
Many facebook teams are dominated by ☭TANKIE☭s as well
Also nbr 2
Nigga you fool

Oh i remember you
Say that you dont support imperialism against him or x, if you dont want to get ban when you are criticizing a third world leader next time

Yeah, I'm not gonna use your special autistic vernacular where we redefine words to use them against people we don't like.

Ultra-leftist has historically ALWAYS referred to a particular kind of leftcom. It is not used to describe fucking Maoists you absolute chump.
Another member of the hordes of ML lapdogs I mentioned earlier, I see. Can't say anything bad against someone the BO likes, that's R E V I S I O N I S M, of course.

I've just stopped talking about third world countries altogether at this point. It's clear that the BO is completely beyond reason and thinks that the word imperialism means "criticizing anyone America hates".

Hey explain me what is "orthodox m-ls"
What most people call them are anglo staliNEETs cause i have never seen a party only liking Stalin

I do this sometimes
Especially on bait threads(see any thread about ro-ja-va)

I told you I'm not interested!

SLAMS DOOR

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The term "dog whistle" comes to mind

Stalin was right

The only feasible way you could think this is what permanent revolution means is if you literally only read the title and interpreted it as concretely as you possibly could.

So naturally, this is what all of Zig Forums thinks it means.