With Sectarianism appearing to never cease I have imagined what the Far-Left would become if Sectarianism never stops. As a concept, Sectarianism relates very much to Tribalism. Looking at mankind's ancient past where civilization, or a lack there of lived in tribes, clans, and other small bands of people. The neither Empires nor Nation-State has existed yet and the different tribes warred with each other of a multitude of reasons. Look at Native American Society or the Mongols before Genghis Khan as an example of this.
The Far-Left inches closer to this reality than any of the revolutionary futures we desire. If there is ever a location in the world that the Far-Left Movements have controlled, it would look something like this. Several hundreds if not thousands of different Far-Left Sects exist within, let's say this general area being the size of the U.S. state of Montana, the area. The reformist Democratic Socialist control the remnants of what was the town governments. Anarchist autonomous zones dot the landscape. ☭TANKIE☭s, Trots, Maoists, and other party based movements are in constant war over scraps of land. New leftist theories also try to make do and exist somewhere in this general area.
History has shown that the only way to unite sectarian groups is to forcibly purge them and have one rule, but the situation of the Far-Left stops this:
In Summary: The Far-Left will become a Pseudo AnPrim's wet dream.
the future of the far left is being written into history as the people who tried but failed to reverse the destruction of the earth. Kids on ships to Mars will learn about how humans destroyed the Earth and there was a fringe group of people trying to stop it. We've lost, Capitalism won. The earth will burn and all the billionaires will flee. There are enough good people though that other organizations will take as many people with them as they can. Humanity will split in two- the billionaires who fled after ruining the planet, and the people who were forced to leave.
Brayden Walker
I could fight side by side with a Maoist, but never an anarchist. It doesn't matter anyways, is right.
Jayden Myers
It is very hard to kill an idea, if the Humans on Mars learn of Communism and its many varieties then the Sectarianism will just be reborn on the red planet which is now more red.
Gavin Howard
Capitalism would still have to run it's course before any sect succeeds. Ideas can't accomplish anything until material conditions align.
Ryder Sanders
I honestly believe Communism will only exist post-Earth
Mason Sullivan
A united left is an undisciplined left, submit yourselves to the correct revolutionary theory not the other way around
Liam Nelson
so the leftcom flag has truly reached the lowest common denominator after all the good leftcom posters have long been banned. This is the very bottom i guess.
James Moore
the only thing we need to do is increase education spending and teacher unions, solves half of all poverty
Holy shit OP I agree with you so much… Your post is excellent and the example of a leftist controlled area splitting in various factions was absolutely on point… But we need to think of how to beat a united right or the authoritarian post liberal states without a """united""" left. If we keep this up there will never be communism on earth… in any form. At some point we need to work together to even aquire the chance pf establishing radical full on communism anywhere in our preferred variants. The only other alternative would be going socdem or DemSoc trying to make the capitalists states less horrible… which is pretty sad but currently more realistic than a radical left movement taking power anywhere in the first world.
Bentley Sullivan
If we can't unite, why not spend our effort attempting to divide the enemy? Now the situation involves mass division amongst everyone.
Oliver King
I don't see why you can't just agree to disagree and have different regions as test zones that will eventually do away with ideology and go for a purely pragmatic approach of what aspects of each system works well.
Grayson Barnes
Don't underestimate the Far-Left's devotion to their particular tendency.
Aaron Williams
All the dogmatism and infighting is so counterproductive. You would think everyone would figure this out by now that no one really knows what is best in practice for certain regions without actually doing it to find out. Economics isn't a science it's an artform and art takes practice.
Evan Myers
this but also i hope we die before we get to mars and it's aliens or highly evolved lizard-dogs that learn about our fuckups.
William Carter
Not every ideology deserves the same respect. You can't have a generic "Left Front" with succdems, MLs, Maoists, DemSocs, ⛏️rotskyites, 100 flavours of Anarchism and have any chance at accomplishing anything.
Any organization in my view should work with democratic centralism and have core aspects.
Carson Flores
Don't forget the other 1000 flavors of Troskyism
Leo Moore
Mars confirmed for fully automated deep space communism
Easton Miller
this topic is gold, just some minutes ago wrote the following in the aussie thread:
the main goal is coming closer to achieve collective ownership of the means of production, EVERYTHING ELSE, should NOT be something everyone needs to agree to.
not (even) whether you are pro-iran/-israel/-rojanimu/-immigration/-religion. well religion is shit but i mean what I said there.
money quote from the manifesto: "Though not in substance, yet in form, the struggle of the proletariat with the bourgeoisie is at first a national struggle. The proletariat of each country must, of course, first of all settle matters with its own bourgeoisie."
Jeremiah Wood
Agreed, however i'm willing to do a fucking billionaire shooting if i get the chance.
John Phillips
adding to that, succdems of cause are naturally non-allies (responsible for class-appeasement at best), but some anarchists (those who are also strive collective ownership of the means of production) are very well.
also, those who are responsible for sectarianism are hurting the cause and thereby should be treated as enemies, they need to be triggered with things that don't fit their shitty close-minded world-views. (that was the reason i did some shitty pro-israel shitposting before, sorry lads but that was the reason for that… ).
Owen Martin
or maybe I'm wrong about "collective ownership of the means of production" should be the main goal, preventing the scenario seems like a fine goal too
Jason Evans
"Preventing Sectarianism" is oddly contradictory, for the act of doing so can be seen by the opposition as Sectarianism against them.
Jacob Nguyen
Yeah, where to draw the line, I don't know. Even succems can be usefull allies in some situations, maybe when there is an immediate threat (e.g. of repression).
What I tried to say there should be a main goal (maybe more practical one / one specified in a way that doesn't describe a specific way of achieving the goal)
Oliver Rodriguez
I think the best way to unite infighting groups is an "Anti-" for a common enemy is better than a common goal.
where I'm from (Germany) the main point made against the left here, is, that "the left is always anti-Something, has nothing to offer for how to make it better"
.. which is of cause bs, but that is how it is perceived by many, here.
many right-wingers ended up where they are because of the no-platform- and SJW-shit non-marxist anti-fascists spew, not because they're genuinely anti-communists (they have no idea what that is because nobody approached them with arguments in the first place).
I had said it before, some months ago, I talked to many AfD voters in Germany, mutual respect and not name-calling is the key. I told them that mass-immigration wouldn't be a thing if we in the rich countries would've done our part in treating the countries they come from fairly, wouldn't have intervened in their affairs over and over again, especially when toppling progressive governments and shit you not they agreed on all of that. Being Anti-X is not how you win over people from the other side imo.
Evan Ramirez
The "Anti-" tactic seems to be less about winning the enemy to your side, but uniting your fragmented side to work together.
To win those of the other side you probably have to talk to them and have them adopt a Leftist ideology closest to who they were before, such as Nationalist being Assertists, NazBols, or NatComs; SuccDems become DemSocs; SJWs and RadLibs become AnFem and QueerAns etc.
Once they are generally close to the Far-Left, then you use the "Anti-" tactic to unite these fragments into one common enemy.
Anthony Cooper
Wanting to add to the "talking to AfD" point: they even agreed on that socialism would be a good thing for 3rd world countries to make progress and get out of the Neo-Colonial situation they're stuck in.
What I did NOT is saying everything was perfect in the soviet union, nobody would take you seriously, dunno if you have more success in your countries saying such shit, if I defend the SU I single out the economic development, otherwise Yugoslav Gommunism has much better appeal imo but in spirit of non-sectarianism I shouldn't judge right.
Of cause you have genuine assholes in the right but I'd say it is not the majority and especially name-calling them racists if maybe they only are anti-Islam for examples put them where they are.
Easton Campbell
I can imagine every tendency has a specific job. ☭TANKIE☭s are the militant vanguard ready to use violence first, DemSocs are attempting to take over governments and convert SuccDems, ⛏️rotskyists are infiltrating the institutions, Anarchists of all types are making autonomous zones anywhere they can, recent converts from Nationalism (who become Asserist and NazBols) can push infighting for the right and may be of use, LeftComs are watching and maybe waiting for the spontaneous revolution, minor tendencies are scratching an existence somewhere.
I think the best and most realistic form of Non-Sectarianism, is not to purge everyone (you can do that if you have the means to in which neither of us do) nor is it to declare one tendency as the best, but to at least agree to fight the enemy first in the variable ways you believe would work before fighting each other.
John James
Natürlich wissen wir das. Genau wie wir wissen was "weiss" ist. Was "Deutsch" ist, etc.
Anyway, it's all a matter of patience. Keep pulling some dumb shit and we won't wait for "Högge" to say anything. Kommunisten, Bolschewisten. Niemand vermisst sie. Vorallem nicht die Eltern.
Meinst Du irgendwen interessieren irgendwelche Dinge wie "warte! Ich kann meinen Standpunkt argumentieren!" wenn man einfach alle Kommunisten ohne jeglichen negativen Auswirkungen abmurksen kann?
Da kann doch nun wirklich niemand etwas gegen einwenden. Die Probleme der Welt werden gelöst, Ihr müsst keine Kommunisten mehr sein, und wir müssen keine Kommunisten mehr ertragen. Win-win-win.
Samuel Cook
Yeah, but how much is that "common enemy" actually relevant at the moment? (I guess that depends on in which country you're living in…) And how does fighting that "commom enemy" help us making progress on "the main goal"?
Cameron Hill
That is best answered completely based on the particular situation a society is in. I can tell you how to make a fist, but it is up to those who wield it to decide how to use it.
Jonathan White
Erklär mal wie dir das weiterhilft, du Vollhorst, ja rotte die jüdischen Oligarchen aus, ersetze sie mit deutschen Oligarchen, die stehen ja dann auf deiner Seite, richtig?
Es sind (auch) deutsche Oligarchen, die von billigen Arbeitskräften aus dem Ausland profitieren, und es sind dieselben, die dann über dubiose Stiftungen die AfD unterstützen, hauptsache die Arbeiter sind gespalten und verdummt.
What, lmao, it isnt tribalist at all! For one, very, very, very scarce few are born into a Communist viewpoint for anysort of tribalist hereditary/cultural/social connection to exist. For two, these are philosphical/ideological viewpoints, not clans. This isnt a distinction of fact, which would be superflous considering you are making an analogy, its a distinction of character. No one is bound to some tribalist code, or some spooky sense of belonging, the ideologies have real, and often insoluble, differences. They are different from tribes in almost anyway imaginable, your comparison to tribalism is iust emotional language. The future of the left is one where the most aware, lucky, etc.. group of leftists show themselves as superior to all the others through their successes. This is, and will always be true. One look at the successess of the USSR (Stalin era) and the failures of the myriad who thought they were better. Yugoslavia comes to mind as a clear example of exacting and complete failure. Geez, just look at the failure of the USSR! They let revisionist intelligentsia fop around and they practically singlehandedly demolished the USSR! Your list of how a leftist group will "unite the left" through extermiantion is RETARDED. For one, it completely ignores that power of the proletariat. Leftists dont need other """leftists""" anymore than they need to sleep with cobras. The proletariat has repeatedly itself more than capable of revolution. Furthermore, the need for extermination is nazi tier stupidity. I can only think you believe this because some part of you realizes you are snake like, and thusly believes all others to be snake likeThe USSR and the PRC were ALLIES, right up until fucktards after Stalins death attempted to control them. They had real, actual left unity. Two Communist countries recognising the successes and failures of the other. Im out of time, so this is it.
