Trutherism (belief that the US Government was partially / fully responsible for the terrorist event on 2001-09-11) largely consists of libertarians and, in general, is a movement consisting of idiots, with more than a fair number of anti-semites involved (jews did 9/11 etc etc)
The American alt-right has a large base of "Patriots" who're wary of Muslims because they associate them with terrorism (among other things). What if we tried to redirect some of the crazy people rage from Muslims back towards the Bush admin and the greater anti-capitalist umbrella of thought?
The CIA and Saudi Arabia did 9/11, this is pretty much indisputable at this point. The CIA, Saudis, Turkey, and others also created Al Qaeda and ISIS. If your question is, "If we provide enough evidence for these claims and explain it in terms of Marxist analysis, could it be a powerful propaganda weapon," I think the answer is yes.
Kevin Cook
Why don't we, then?
Brody Brown
Zig Forums, you are teleported to your next family reunion wearing a T-shirt that says "CIA did 9/11". How do you justify yourself to your family?
Asher Gutierrez
Calmly redpill them. They wouldn't believe me but they're all normie left-liberals so they wouldn't kick me out for disrespecting the government.
Elements of the Saudi Government and perhaps the royal family definitely aided the hijackers and helped plan 9/11 but there is no evidence the CIA was involved.
Parker Sanders
Holy shit the CIA not involved in something, though I am sure they are some how the further down the rabbit hole we go. There is no way they aren't involved but if there is no evidence then I can't say they did.
Cameron Gutierrez
The CIA were involved in supporting Al Qaeda originally, when they were one group among the mujahideen fighting the Soviets. They weren't involved with Al Qaeda directly at the time of 9/11, or at least I've seen no clear evidence of it.
Jeremiah Sullivan
Conspiratards can seem like potential recruits at a glance, but once you figure out what is really going on in their minds, it becomes apparent how reactionary they really are. These people are not merely status quo skeptics with overactive imaginations, their personal biases are not derived from their fantastical theories. It is the converse: they are so thoroughly convinced of their idealistic conservative nationalism that they are willing to believe literally anything that justifies their preconceived notions. It is extremely hard for them to accept that the 'MURICA they worship has failed them, so they make up increasingly absurd claims without evidence as an excuse to reject this fact.
Isaiah Myers
Why would we want these people? These morons are a big part as to why the alt-right couldn't go nowhere after electing Trump.
History is on our side, and socialism is the interest of most of the population. Why the fuck would we want to get mixxed up with this crack-pottery?
I will make sure to watch that 45 minute documentary by someone named "Alien Scientist" when I have the time.
Christopher Ortiz
Doesn't it sound a tiny bit more plausible that 9/11 was blowback than to see it as the result of a grand ole conspiracy? I know that by the technical definition the official story is, also, a conspiracy
So do you really believe a bunch of arabs with little to no flight experience and some hours on flight simulators armed with razor blades were able to hijack planes and hit them at the wtc and pentagon? Not even experienced pilots can explain how the hell do you hit the etagon with a fucking boeing the way it did..and if the a plane really hit a pentagon, then why hasnt the government released the footage from the sheraton hotel across the highway? so easy…just show us the footage and nobody will doubt a plane hit the pentagon that day. How the fuck do they fooled a nation with a massive military and defensive budget? Why did wtc 7 collapsed to the ground in the same way wtc 1 and 2 did hours later? No planes hit wtc 7 yet it collapsed in 7 seconds. 7 seconds! A building where lots and lots of investigations regarding wall street frauds were storaged. Why did the wtc owner did an insurance policy specific covering terrorist attacks early that year? Why did the project for the new american century talks about a new pearl harbor as the catalyst event to launch USA's foreign policy for the 21st century? The same people that became part of the Bush jr administration
Aiden Roberts
the WTC had been involved involved in a terrrorist attack long before 9/11, that's probably why the insurance policy looked good, assuming most big landmarks don't have the same policy.
Henry Garcia
So they waited 8 years for it?
Jayden Flores
you find that odd because you're a retard.
Camden Howard
Except for how they literally prevented hijackers from getting arrested, with the excuse that they were trying to "recruit them as informers."
Angel Walker
They were, look up the Blind Sheikh for one example.
Easton Reyes
...
Blake Rogers
No, because blowback is bullshit. If it was true, we'd have Vietnamese, Korean, Russian, etc people all flying planes into buildings.
Grayson Roberts
epic, fuck off shill
Cooper Phillips
You realise the Vietnamese won the war, right?
Eli Walker
terrorists have carried out hundreds of airline hijackings and airline bombings in the past.
Bentley Bell
Trying to recruit conspiracy theorists is a no win solution. One the one hand, the effort spent trying to get these butjobs on your side incurs an opportunity cost; we would be much better off targeting working families or immigrant communities or really just any group experiencing economic adversity rather than people who, for idealistic reasons, entertain these delusions.
On the other hand, even if they are recruitable, these people are the worst kind to have in a leftist movement. Undergirding any serious leftist movement is a belief in historical materialism, and of class as the primary driver of society. Conspiracy theorists are the complete opposite of this. They believe the towers were taken down, or moon landing was faked, or that aliens have made contact, because they think there’s a group of nasty people self-conciously choosing to perpetrate evil acts and keep the rest of us down. Even when there is not a racial component (there usually is) these people are missing the forest for the trees. The bourgeoisie does not hold meeting like the fucking Illuminati. They conduct their activities in rational self interest and generally justify those activities by believing in an ideology (eg libertarianism) that endorses it.
Internally, conspiracists inevitably weaken the ideological basis of the leftist group they are part of by obscuring the rational, materialistic basis of said org with irrational, idealistic nonsense.
Externally, they give leftist groups a bad name when they rant about chemtrails or alien contact or whatever (looking at you, Posadism, which is essentially an entire leftist tendency of these people). The core defensible basis of leftism against arguments from the center is our materialistic, modernist, rational world view, which gets compromised when we tolerate wackjobs.
This isn’t to say that conspiracies don’t exist. COINTELPRO and the Business Plot are good examples. But these must be explained as part of the self-preservation of bourgeois power, not as “evil people are putting autism in my vaccines because they hate our freedom”.
Hudson Russell
I don't think you understand blowback as a concept. It's when imperialist actions and puppets unintentionally ricochet back against the Empire. OKC is a good example of blowback imo, much of the white power was made up of Vietnam vets swept up in the political atmosphere of the late Cold War; McVeigh himself was a Desert War vet.
Men like Hussein and Noriega were once puppets of imperialism but he turned against the Empire or the empire on them and in my view that is a type of blowback. Osama Bin Laden was an anti-communist guerrilla who was funded and trained by the US; he made radical Islam chic for a Western audience in the 80s.
Another interesting example of blowback, British intelligence once considered the Zionist movement to be more dangerous to the British empire than communism in the late 40s. And for good reason, Zionist radicals had attempted terrorist actions against Britain and even assassinated British officials and were in open rebellion against Britain by the time of the Nakba. For some time, Zionism had been a key part of Britain's overall imperialist and counter-revolutionary strategy but the dog began to turn against his master around the time of the Holocaust and the end of WWII.
I'm not implying that this makes radical right-wingers or other reactionaries somehow truly revolutionary but I do see that its quite possible that they can be destabilizing forces for the powers that formerly supported them. And, obviously they can make up such as the case with Al-Qaeda in Syria or the Israeli-UK-French seizure of the Suez Canal.
Blowback, is somewhat ironical in its meaning, we would expect Vietnamese and Koreans to want to attack America directly due to the damage that the US inflicted on their countries. But, perhaps, it is for this reason that the threat comes from inside the imperialist world itself and its proxies. An intelligent opponent of the US isn't going to commit some mass terrorist attack against civilians because there's no point in it; but an insane group of reactionaries once in the pay of the empire will not think that deeply about such an attack.
It's in a similar vein to Hegel's point that a true threat always comes from within.
Daniel Kelly
Not that I don't agree with your post, but it should be noted that social class is a good predictor of conspiratorial beliefs. The lower one perceives their social class/status to be, the more likely they are to believe in conspiracy theories.
Ethan Smith
most conspiracy nutjobs are retired middle class white folk that have too much time on their hands and can't understand why their sons and grandchildren can't be as successful as them by working just as hard as he did.
Lincoln Jackson
You’re ignoring the main point, which is that workers and lumpen are more likely to believe in conspiracies than any other group of people in society
Hunter Harris
If you don't believe in conspiracies, you're not a Marxist. Marxism inherently includes conspiracy in its analysis. Every Marxist revolution in history had to deal with extensive conspiracies against it, both external and internal. Lenin, Stalin, Mao, etc. all made extensive public denunciations against various conspirators. youtube.com/watch?v=Pg9xgJc2efc
Yeah but it's bullshit. Terrorist attacks benefit the imperialist governments. They deliberately allow/plan terrorist attacks on their own soil to ratchet up nationalism and policing.
Jason Rivera
This is true in some cases (like those of the Red Brigades) but not true in other cases. For instance, I don't see how the OKC bombing benefited imperialism and I haven't seen any evidence that it was an "inside job" or encouraged by the Feds. Furthermore, I think playing to this notion that it was a false-flag in the case of OKC is dangerous because that is a white supremacist narrative about the bombing
