If you're ever wondering why fascism is so beloved by Americans, this is one of the many reasons. All of their favorite bands promote it.
sofa-king-cool-magazine.com
Fascism in Western Music
Aiden Thomas
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soundcloud.com
youtu.be
en.wikipedia.org
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
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Jonathan Davis
David bowie is from England and was literally high as a kite following a diet of cocaine, peppers and milk for one year straight. He doesn't even remember recording an album during that time.
For the rest I don't even know who the other guys are. That said iggy pop and other punks used nazi images for shock value to be controversial and edgy as fuck, none of these actually promoted fascism. Joy Division is another band that did this and New Order is still doing this even tho most of them call themself socialists . It's shock value, the same reason why Syd Vicious did it.
Adrian Wood
In addition to being coked out of his gourd, I suspect Bowie was trying to do some conceptual art-rock Pink Floyd thing with the fascist stuff. Maybe like The Wall?
Anyways I think there's something to be said for the theory but I don't think just hunting for fascist salutes is going to be that predictive; sometimes it's satire. For me it's more stuff like Disco Demolition Night in 1979, which was at a baseball park in Chicago when this schlock jock radio guy named Steve Dahl organized a detonation of a mound of disco records in the middle of the field. The blast actually damaged the pitch forcing a cancellation of the game.
Well you have to look at all these white schmoes cheering the destruction of records that had a largely black and gay audience at the time. I dunno what the people in audience liked to listen to though. REO Speedwagon and Foreigner maybe. Then hair metal.
Wyatt Gomez
(me)
Ah now that I look closer at the photo of the pitch invasion (after the blast) there's one shirt that says "Country Swings. Disco Sucks." Really classic white reaction.
Secondly, and I don't think anybody has written about this, but I'm convinced the shift in American popular music after the 9/11 attacks was another example of this. Look up the 2001 "Clear Channel memorandum" when Clear Channel (largest owner of radio stations in Burgerland) circulated a memo with artists of "lyrically questionable" content. This was not mandatory but a lot of radio stations nonetheless got the message and took out a lot of edgy music.
Well at the same time this was a big opening for bands like Nickelback and Creed, which were vaguely Christian, in an Evangelical American way. So now that's all you heard on the radio. And you also saw the boy bands go out of style along with the nu-metal bands. Say what you will about nu-metal but there was a blurring of black and white artists with that stuff. That music might've sucked but most of it was still way better than fucking Nickelback and Creed.
Anthony Lopez
(me)
Actually most significant recently would be the only diva left standing: Taylor Swift. It's not for no reason Zig Forums gravitated toward her and her fascist will-to-power stuff. "Look What You Made Me Do." That song is catchy as hell but lmao just look at the video, which came out in August 2017, the same month as the tiki-torch white-power rally in Charlottesville. It's basically a Zig Forums anthem and also expresses this weird quasi-gay fascism with these twinked-out backup dancers that seems to be where one part of the culture is at. (Think Milo Yiannopolous.) Well it shows that the right is always engaged in cultural metamorphosis.
Also, when it comes to pop, it's not really the music that is innovative here but the production techniques and – perhaps most importantly – the aesthetic.
Grayson Diaz
Gosh guys you sure do read a lot.
Thomas Hughes
Art reflects society or responds to it rather than the other way around I think. That's how I'd look at it.
The Soviet Union banned AC/DC records and the like because the authorities considered them fascist. I don't think that was quite right but more that fascist stuff works its way in because audiences start responding to it, and there may be some opportunistic plays from the record industry. Not sure AC/DC is the best example of that in action, though maybe the Soviet authorities saw the lightning bolts and freaked out. Taylor Swift on the other hand…
Anyways a lot of pop music, Taylor Swift excluded, just seems flat bummed out at the moment. Songs about suicide and wanting to die. I heard this song by Dua Lipa which is about telling her friends to avoid a guy because he's a rapist. Pretty grim stuff though a lot of it is very good music, and I love the minor key which seems to have become popular.
My lefty friends seem to like Janelle Monae who makes very political pop but I'm all out of cultural observations for the moment. I'll check back on this thread in about two years when we'll have Stalinist divas storming the Billboard 100 charts or something like that. Later y'all.
Juan Sanchez
Janne is hardly political tho. Complaining about police and how blacks are treated is standard practice these days. If you want some great left wing music you should listen to Gang of Four or The Fall. Rap is shit
Julian Anderson
Personally I listen to Bolshevik industrial tunes from East Germany like Rummelsnuff but I recognize that stuff doesn't really have a mass audience. Just making an observation about the culture.
Actually think feminism with the #metoo stuff is where the center is at the moment. There's the whole anti-SJW backlash which is heavily an anti-feminist backlash, but the feminist stuff seems more dominant than ever with heads of touchy-feely men in entertainment and politics being lobbed off and paraded around on spikes. Big thing in South Korea too which is a cultural powerhouse and some politicians have been brought down because of it.
See that in Janelle's music too. Actually a mix of rap and like… Prince? Sounds like Prince. Anyways she's talking shit about Hoteps and stuff in it.
Daniel Evans
There was at least some variety as far as "Disco Demolition Night" participants - it's fairly well established that Michael Clarke Duncan was there.
I doubt Bowie was trying to do a Floyd-type thing - my impression is he was just coked out and doing mock-fascism full on. Pink Floyd worked it into the message that it was shit (although the Hammerskins certainly missed the memo), whereas I think Bowie actually was honestly slightly less "ironic" about it than the guys who'd done it before that point (Stooges, Sweet, Blue Oyster Cult, etc.).
I'd honestly put that fetishy S&M dictator stuff she did down as one of the ''less' reactionary points in her career. When she was a country radio staple, she almost always came off really heavy with the daddy issues - something which allowed her to blend in a lot with the "my daddy was a good man/Ford trucks are the best" south-kitsch pap that fills those waves.
Except some of the aforementioned south-kitsch, this seems to be an irritating trend. The last 3 years of the Obama era, pop radio was drenched in retardedly happy music which rang a bit unnerving given the national mood. There were a few good tunes, but sandwiched between songs like "Happy," and the barrage of indoor voice "whoah-oh" pop. And then godawful shit like "Blurred Lines" and Katy Perry's pseudo-feminist stuff.
So, to me the change seems shallow - like most of the millionaires who buy up the top 40 slots were waiting until another shitty Republican got elected before they'd touch much angsty shit again. Not that the national mood has gotten better - but some of the stuff that charted during Obama seemed like tries at mood propaganda.
Isaiah Ortiz
Corporations lost touch with consumers. GG and the likes (even the whole alt right thing) is more about wanting a certain type of consumer culture back. It's sad to think about it, but it's true. Yeah material conditions are always involved, but you bring back right after 9/11 corporate culture you'd see much less of Zig Forums and the likes around.
Aiden Brooks
Dua Lipa stuff is interesting, like people have been making female empowerment ballads since Cyndi Lauper (who did nothing wrong tbh) but New Rules is more than that. It is not just "ur
Stronk an powrful" it's "look, I am empowered but it takes bloody work and to do it you also have to not act like a total fucking thot". In the UK there was a poll like six months back where people were given four questions, three of them were 'feminist issues' (iirc, it was about the pay gap, representation in authorative bodies, and decsision making in the home) and a majority of people agreed with all of it, but the poll about if people were 'feminists' most said no. We have reached a position of post–feminism or non-feminism, where people don't agree with tue ideological but agree with its standpoints. Now how does this link with Dua Lipa? Simple, she is a post-femimist musician. It isn't "you are empowered because uou have a vagina", it is "you are empowered because you have to work at beingna good person". She accepts the standpoint, but rejects the underlying ideology.
Dylan Mitchell
This seems Phil Greaves tier tbh. Not sure why you'd call Metallica fascist since a lot of their songs had a very obvious anti war message. Pantera and their fans are inherently reactionary though, you should listen to patrician metal like pics related
Luis James
Metal maybe not reactionary, but it's inerenthly shit
Juan Davis
t.brainlet who cannot comprehend dialectical nature of extreme metal
Chase Robinson
Reminder that ironic fascism is still fascism.
Lincoln Butler
No it's not. Like ironic communism doesn't make you communist. Using Nazi imagery to trigger Bougie who won't admit they are smilar to them is not nazism.
Plus one thing is "ironic" another is Iggy and Bowie tier where the coke and heroin made them go out of their head.
Henry Bell
I think it was pseudo-feminist because, in fact, it was gay men who were behind all this Obama-era diva stuff the entire time, like a pop-culture conspiracy. Now I was part of this conspiracy because I remember the gay clubs circa 2009 or so right when Lady Gaga came out and she ruled those places back then.
Katy Perry too and Britney Spears' 'Circus' but I think the music worked better in the form of these club dance remixes: soundcloud.com
I mean listen to it around 4:00. These were full-on gay anthems. Now I'm not suggesting anyone has to like this music, people here can hate it for all I care, but this stuff in the radio form was really an extension of what was happening in the clubs I think, and the stuff sounded huge in a club setting and the optimistic upbeatness was part of the whole gay pride cultural moment which went on to annihilate the Religious Right. They still haven't come close to recovering from that.
Enormously successful by any measure. But yeah I was in some fast-food joint the other day and this Katy Perry song was playing – the one about being abducted and filled with alien cum or something? Anyways I was like "blugh this stuff is much worse than I remember." And you're totally right about the retard-happy music like that song "Happy" and the "woah-oh" pop.
Still like these club mixes though.
Well it's like pornography. I also listen to a lot of industrial music so I'm used to martial uniforms but I have a "I know it when I see it" attitude.
Cameron Brooks
Mostly unrelated but you reminding me of CCM made me remember something that hints this has increasingly been utilized even in other countries. For example, I'm in the UK and a while back I heard the radio discussing Black Eyed Peas, in the live clip they played to advertise the show, the "CIA" line wasn't censored but in the studio radio edit they played of that "where is the love" song, CIA was intentionally blanked out, and that song came out after 9/11
Jackson Edwards
You haven't listened to enough hip-hop lad
Jason Price
It's just not my thing dude. I'm not from an english speaking country, paying too much attention to lyrics is really difficult for me especially if they are in ebonics. So I basically rather listen to anything else.
Jason Martin
What country are you from? Also you'd be surprised about the diversity of styles containing rap music, It's cool if you don't enjoy it, I just don't really think saying "all of X is shit" is a good take, much like the other guy in this thread who was shitting on Metal.
Christian Anderson
Those are some good albums fam. Especially "final holocaust" and "far away from the sun", though sadly I've over listened to both of them to the point that I don't play them much anymore.
Colton Myers
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Jacob Martin
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Grayson Murphy
They absolutely can be, but what are the odds a non-white person is going to be down with the racist ideology of Nazism.
Isaac Sanchez
hetfield is some kind of christian conservative, and the rest of the band are succdems (especially lars since he's from denmark and all) calling them fascist is stupid, especially considering the meanings behind a lot of their music.
Hunter Foster
Fascism=/=Nazism
Doesn't mean that they are immune to racism either.
Idi amin? C'mon
Evan Lopez
I wasn't putting in doubt the fact that calling them fascist is retarded, but I was calling out considering non whites unable to be racist or fascist
Mason Howard
Not entirely sure why I read "metal" as "hentai".
Zachary Adams
In the one pic OP provided, they were giving the Nazi salute; that's why I specifically mentioned Nazism.
Joshua Nguyen
you're too lewd baka baka oniichan
Nathaniel Flores
Fascist Bowie is best Bowie.
Dylan Miller
Here's a good rap song: youtu.be
Should make it leftypol's anthem imo
Jeremiah Wright
His mid-70s coked-out funk stuff was really good but my personal favorite is that weird-ass cyberpunk album he did in the 90s.
Ziggy Stardust is massively overrated.
Jaxon Mitchell
Not that poster but
Earthling or oustide? Or hours?
For me personally is anything from station to station to scary monsters. I also like his edgy 90's phase being also NIN fan.
Robert Walker
Outside. That was part of his edgy NIN phase. And actually a noir (emphasis on noir) cyberpunk concept album which is what cyberpunk should be imo
Station to Station (fascist Bowie) is probably his best album tho
I like Young Americans. I'm into coked-out Bowie in a leisure suit doing funk tunes with Cher.
Logan Baker
I also got NIN tickets finally for later this year. Fuckers are expensive. Probably worth it though (I AM A CONSUMER WHORE). I was a teenage goth kid but never made it out to a Reznorpalooza so I should probably make the attempt before he kicks the bucket.
Sebastian Morales
Zachary Parker
Based. They don't play anywhere near me sadly. And Buying tickets to pay a plane to go to america or asia is a bit excessive even for a trent fag like me. I'll do something like this if the ever pulls a wave goodbye tour again, maybe.
He probably won't tour for a long time after this one seen his statments but he's not stopping doing albums under the NIN label. I've read that setlists also got random as fuck so it should be a good show with a lot of deep cuts.
Liked the new """""album"""""" btw?
Isaac Rivera
Did you ever consider that maybe its making a comeback because you push anyone that rejects far left politics to the social fringe?
Eli Carter
I pretty much like everything he does so yeah. I've had plenty of chances to see him on account of being a Burger but passed them up, so I figured might as well this time. Just fits my mood lately.
I'd reckon he's going to keep touring. He's an excellent salesman really and when I hear a musician go "well this might be the last tour… it'll be really special" I'm thinking, well that's him selling tickets. He'll still be doing the NIN thing for awhile.
Asher Adams
why cant we all just get along and destroy capitalism togeather ;_;
fascism is popular because people dont even realize there is another alternative, most people in america consider 'the far left' to be the twitter sjw and democrats.
It wasnt untill i heard ajamu baraka defending trump that i realized there was anything else
Julian Hernandez
The way the right works is that whatever they do, they will always say "why are you making me do this thing?" Then when you go "hey that's unfair" they go "womp womp / we don't care / fuck you." They're sharks.
Robert Taylor
Because fascists are capitalists
Samuel Butler
Ahh real Zig Forums is down, thought i would see where the faggy internet commies hang out
Elijah Sanders
But tovarisch fascism is just feelgood community hugging :^)
Ryan Collins
You are not the first one, dear boomer.
How the fuck can you even sport that flag unironically btw?
Nathaniel Morris
This flag represents freedom. The freedom for you fags to be commies. So in a way it's your flag too
Sebastian Gomez
Kek
And the Swastika can be used to represent spiritualism.
Landon Wright
Here is the problem tho, if we look at the track record (like the bible says) fascism spaced from laissez-faire to keynesian on steroids. Add nationalist rethoric to this and the system is unsustainable. I'm Italian and what I hear often is that Mussolini made two mistakes Germany and Lybia-Etiophia.
Both were natural consequences of the economic system Musso boy applied.
Plus may I know why if you dislike capitalism you don't make the jump to commie?
What a fucking boomer.
Dylan Phillips
Everything is fascist
Connor Thompson
Asher Thomas
why are ammerimutts so fucking autistic
Kayden Davis
Are you aware the US only exists because several people went bankrupt supporting the revolutionary war?
Did you know rome only succeeded because its elites built road networks out of pocket for the public good? It was seen as a high honor to build a good quality road, it garnered respect, but not profits, it was done out of civic pride.
No nation has ever been successful on a greed based ideology. You must be willing to give for the collective. Im also from Zig Forums, i dont know what the communists here think but i think its odd you pick this thread to come in and insult them because fascists dont like republicans either.
I cant see how communism would function in a post labor society when it depends on labor as a source of value.
Isaiah King
This but unironically.
Julian Torres
They are both very important so its understandable
Hunter Wright
Can we have a music thread i'm tired of /mu/ already
Anthony Williams
Metal has exploited the same social phenomena that cultural studies aims to analyze. Metal answered the Frankfurt School by creating an aesthetic violently against the Culture Industry. Metal comprehends that utilitarianism is incompatible with a rights-based social framework. Metal is post-existential insofar as it recognizes God's death but still revels in his blood for Dionysian delights. Metal is the one genre that can't be instrumentalized by capitalism and turned into a tool for exploitation and alienation.
Aiden Murphy
Except metallica are the biggest fucking sellouts ever
Jaxon Harris
metallica doesn't count obviously, they arguably aren't even metal (certainly closer to trash than thrash) and kill em all is their only passable release anyway. see also shit like pantera, tool, mastodon etc. no one who actually knows anything about metal takes those bands seriously
Chase Richardson
Metal is unironically fascist.
Dylan James
Just before the end of cold war and during Reaganism and Tatcherism working class were left wing. And that´s about the time Heavy metal and Hard rock were the most relevant (so we assume we speak about those relevant bands and not modern not that relevant bands). Yes they were left wing. Today PC culture is neoliberalism with identity politics shit disguised as "the left" which i am sure they despise, just as a lot of other economically left people (you know, the REAL left which doesn´t exist in the US since the 80s). Outside the US they still exist plenty of them, all this identity politics shit only exist in a few first world countries. But yeah youll always find very vocal real right wing metal musicians like Anselmo and Mustaine
tl;dr metal is one of the very best platforms with potential to fight neoliberalism
Jack Davis
Heavy metal really stirs up ones spirit for physical endurance, IMHO.
Brayden Miller
here's a good one: "as the palaces burn"
Angel Rodriguez
Go back to twatter Phil
Brandon Morris
dialectical nUT
stalin looks a lot different than I remember
far left politics aren't even in right now, what the heck are you talking about
they literally did capitalism, you fucking idiot
Jaxon Nguyen
It was once suggested to me that the popularity of Emo was due to this because it combined existential angst with personal/relationship issues and side-stepped the problem of the system itself. I hated emo as a teenager personally but once it became unpopular, I really started to like it. I know that's contrarian but…anyways, I would say that assessment is accurate but with a caveat: I don't think its a coincidence that all those emo bands mainly came out of the Rust belt.
As weird as it may sound, I kinda think emo actually took homosexuality and crossdressing mainstream among millennials. I grew up in a household that while not gay was supportive of gay rights and so I could feel that cultural shift.
Suffice it to say that there was a heavy anti-gay attitude in the Bush years in my particular red state it was with the whole scene/emo culture that it suddenly became "cool to be queer" so-to-speak.
I don't know how many of those bands actually had gay members or supported LGBT rights. Quite frankly, a good deal of their lyrics were m.isogynistic, but then again homosexuality and m.isogyny have never actually been opposed.
Camden Flores
*popularity of Emo after 9/11
Andrew Gomez
i swear to god if anyone calls shitty scene music emo ONE MORE TIME
Gavin Garcia
Sorry, it all kind of blurs together, maybe because there was significant crossover between fans of both genres.
Charles Lee
90's emo and emo revival isn't really anything like the "emo" of the 2000's
check it out sometime
never thought I'd be arguing this on a fucking communist imageboard
Ryan Hernandez
Proofs?
William Watson
Even a communist board isn't safe from muh real emo
Brayden Lewis
you jusT DON'T GET IT user
Joshua Myers
reminder that disco is the music of the proletariat and any and all opposition to it is fascist
Noah Adams
this but unironically
Elijah Lewis
Calling the wrong genres 'emo' out of ignorance is no different than calling modern social democracies communist
Dominic Campbell
Lady Gaga's early stuff has aged pretty well, but wasn't strictly a gay club phenomenon. Like, there was a period where gay clubs tended to have their own music and the club scene was independent of broader pop culture - EDM, underground disco/dance, etc. I think something was really lost when top 40 started dominating these clubs.
Really, I was talking about the later half of the Obama era - around this time Katy Perry (who was never great, but had been better at times) was doing stuff like "Roar" and "This is the Part of Me." And a lot of this stuff was very industry self-celebratory and smug, and then as soon as Trump's elected she does "Chained to the Rhythm" which is just as vapid except it's supposed to be negative.
Imo gay rights carried itself - pop (of that era) was only along for the ride when it was safe enough to do so, and the change could have been communicated via pretty much any kind of popular culture.
Connor Sanders
Devil's advocating here - emo-pop at least had its roots in acts linked to actual emo in some stylistic way. Jimmy Eat World (who basically invented the 2000s style), Brand New, Finch probably, etc. And MCR's early stuff could sound a bit like Saetia watered down - that kind of 'dark' sound would be out of place in midwest emo, but actually not so far from the vibes of some late '90s screamo.
Hunter Evans
I can relate to this, back in high school I disliked what was commonly called emo because I was spooked over being "muh trve metal" but as I entered adult life I grew very nostalgic over "emo"/"scene" aesthetics. Of course the metal scene had its own angst driven misogyny, well I related to at the time and still do. Especially in the Brutal Death/Slam Death scenes, though that's probably got to do more with the thematic influence of Cannibal Corpse more than anything. One band, Vehemence was basically /r/Incels before it was a thing.
Aiden Thompson
this
Isaac Thompson
which I related to*
youtube.com
Caleb Green
etc etc
Brandon James
youtube.com
Sebastian Lopez
...
Wyatt Thompson
Still have to understand why people who follow this reasoning don't consider brand new emo. Have these guys listened to anything post Deja?
Evan Powell
people who call shit like my chemical romance "emo" are the same people who say shit like tiesto is "techno"
they obviously are emo, it's just bad emo so it doesn't matter anyway
Isaiah Ross
Zig Forums is full of brown wannabe 'Aryans'
Easton Jenkins
...
Landon Harris
...
Angel Edwards
not sure if this is bait or what, mcr is shitty pop punk, tiesto is shitty uplifting trance. neither has anything to do with emo or techno
I've never listened to deja entendu, but what I've heard from it was better than devil and god. I still didn't really like it, but maybe I'll give it a shot some day. go listen to tiny moving parts or maybe some skramz or something, brand new are maybe better than most shitty p4kcore indie bands but that alone doesn't make them good
Lucas Miller
kek
Benjamin Sanchez
Give me a fucking break.
Christian Cooper
more like metallica were a good band amiright guys
Justin Rogers
SOOOO FASCIST
Caleb Gray
they're libshits! we should stop liking them!
Logan Phillips
They are not fascist, they are fucking trash tho
Jordan James
I like Kill Em All and Ride the Lighting still more or less, Slayer's Hell Awaits is by far the best thing related to the big 4 though
Kayden Parker
ALL MEDIA IS FASCIST
ONLY CAVE PAINTINGS ARE PURE