A lack of dialectic has slowed the traffic on this board down to a halt. In order to remedy this problem, we must establish closer diplomatic ties with other internet communities to enable new cultural exchange and thus spiritually enrich the people of Zig Forums. Inter-ideological dialogue is what makes us strong. Seeing that in this digital age it has become all too easy to insulate yourself from other belief-systems, we must take conscious action to stimulate such conversation.
The purpose of this thread is to send official diplomatic envoys to other internet communities. I suggest that our first target be 4/pol/. The proud people of 4/pol/ are known for their slow wits and sharp edge. Their board moves at a fast pace, making it a relatively harmless subject on which to conduct the first trial of this program.
Zig Forums has always been a borderland between leftist politics and image board culture, the latter of which has now become strongly reactionary. If there is any value to our existence, it is to give the left some grasp on the culture of the alt-right. Without interacting with these reactionaries we cannot fulfill this purpose. Beyond this there is also the faint hope that we might teach them something.
These missions aren't exactly "raids." Raids occur when one community storms another with the intention of disrupting it. We do not want to disrupt anything, only enrich the local population with our presence. Our approach should be civil and well-contained. If this disrupts a community it is their own doing.
Likely. This is part of the purpose of the program. Generate new traffic on our board. Reactionaries might not make very good posters, but their posts form a useful baseline of conversation. There's no better way of refining your theoretical understanding of socialism than repeatedly explaining it to a disingenuous critic. The dumb debates we have with reactionaries also generate great memes.
Not sure yet. That's the first thing this thread will have to figure out. My proposal is that we start an official Zig Forums communist thread on 4chan, and then go from there.
The point isn't to convert them. It's to get dialectics going on our side. See
I support this tbh. This was one of our initial strategies when the board started and led to the height of traffic.
Most of these idiots will go to 8ch.pl
This I also think we should try to merge back with leftpol. All that splits us is arguing over individual dead Russians, and R0java autism that appears to be favoring the non sectarianist argument, of Assad, and Y.P.G getting along, with the style of leftism just suiting the local culture.
I say we go for it, however there's one point where I have to disagree: Imo this is couldn't be further from the truth. Idk about you guys, but what's the last time a reactionary wanted to start a discussion in good faith? In my case, whenever they come here and start those garbage threads I just can't respond seriously. I either ignore them or shitpost and even on the rare occasions where they do ask something in good faith it tends to be such a garbage question, something that can be answered so easily if they search or they just took the fashy pill so hard that their entire understanding of socialism is already so wrong and fucked up I tend to just shitpost as well, even if I know they want serious answers. I don't always do this however, and I would suggest that when a reactionary irl wants to learn more about socialism then you should answer truthfully and as best as you can, regardless of how retarded their questions or answers might be. But after all this is an imageboard and what can you do other than shitpost in return when a Zig Forumsack asks for the hundredth time why we are so obsessed with sending black refugees to white countries?
It worked to bring me here personally.
Doesn't exist anymore last I checked.
Apparently I'm banned for BRAAAPposting, damn I didn't even mean to spam or anything the thread it was in was just full of other shitposting so I figured I'd jump in. Fuck 4/pol/ mods tbh
BO is starting to ban people critical of el presidente Maduro without any reason, so I don't think this is going to happen. It's annoying. I am sheltering myself from mainstream news, but hey, at least I know who is currently threatened/supported by NATO forces. I wish BO could ban people in accordance to socialist ethics, not pure reaction to burger government.
Alright I did my part as /blacknationalist/ flag, tried to converse in good faith but I cant take these retards anymore someone pick up my slack.
I mean leftpol also has twitter level cucks, who want nato intervention to save them from "muh evil man, shooting contras" If anything this shows leftpol that they should see that this is the optimal current moderation system, as even they're now using it to kill autists
Jesus, checked out that thread, didn't last more than a minute at the garbage they spew. Bless OP's soul for trying with those braindead retards. Also, funny how there's still people there that are convinced they are a NutSac board lmao.
You should have given that one curious guy a proper definition of the difference between socialism and communism and defined it as the lower stage and higher stage as defined in the CotGP instead being vague to try to be nuanced. You need to be straightforward with these guys.
Otherwise you were good, nice infograph
Notice how the only "source" the guy had about the welfare in Nazi Germany was a Wikipedia link.
Yeah I was just trying to give a broader, nonsectarian rundown but I shouldve known that that would just be construed as dodging the question and given the orthodox Marxist response instead.
Or become partners with left youtubers and big leftist subreddits so they bring people here, eh how bout that
we're too degenerate. it'd get rid of the boards shit posting, an affiliation would be better due to it not making them look like crazy fucks who pop lsd, and visit /x/
But the orthodox marxist response is saying socialism and communism are the same thing. If anything telling them what your average socialist would've said (differentiating between socialism and communism) is a more leninist answer, which ofc there's nothing wrong with that, I myself also take the leninist stance.
kys if you shit on maduro. its like … killing a cow. cow arent smart, but they're our Friends. its like shitting on allende during the coup no matter how much they're socdem, they deserve our support when you see what they're up against
This is a complete waste of time and effort.You will never bring anyone on 4chan over to your side because 4chan is a "free speech" board, which in reality means dogmatically defending capitalism and reaction to the last breath. 4chan is mostly used by Westerners and westerners live in a heavily capitalist society, so "freedom" to them basically means the right suppress everyone else and enforce capitalism and bourgeoisie culture.
4chan and other internet communities are never going to accept marxism. Its been tried time after time after time and never worked. They're literally too dumb and brainwashed. If you want to make a brave last stand and go and argue with those fucking endless hordes of retards all day while they dogpile, strawman or just generally post dumb memes at you then go ahead. But I wouldn't waste the effort.
I have to disagree with this, given I was a reactionary and I turned thanks to the efforts of a few Marxists.
On 4chan though? The problem with 4chan is that its self-reinforcing. Go to Zig Forums frontpage and what is there: a thread about fantasizing about rape, a thread depicting a video where a left winger is being beaten up by right wingers, some stupid neo-nazi meme that debunked years ago and other dumb shit. You can't argue with them on their home turf.
Which is why you gotta bring them out of it and onto here. That's arguably one of the first steps to helping them.
It can be done, fatalism and this defeatist attitude helps no one.
Critically aid nazbol poster in this anti-autism crusade
The point isn't to convert people. It's to generate more traffic for our board. Pushing Zig Forums around is fun. People will turn up for that shit.
Good effort from the last thread. It's nice that you have a Zizek OP and I would recommend steering away from Pepes or Wojaks because fuck them tbh.
I'm thinking we should branch out, have a wider range of left wing discussion on Zig Forums.
They can attack and avoid the Zig Forums general because it's just an abstract to them, it's just "communism". I'm thinking if we made a thread on Paul Cockshott, for example, they wont be able to just dismiss it with "Communism lol"
This is such a stupid argument I don't know where to begin.
OP you are a hero. Also ty for not taking the blatant bait some of those niggers were posting.
Then why do some countries industrialise and some don't? How come the USSR grew and industrialised during the Great Depression?
HAHAHAHAHA shut the fuck up
Yo well job on taking the bait there you dumb negroids. As if there even were unironic socdems on leftypol
CringePilled useless and Borderline Zig Forumsyp bait Why the hell should I want to provoke Zig Forumsyps into shitting up the board? Just to get its traffic up on Muh leaderboard XD?
So they come here and we put our debating skills into practice, or lose our minds at the sheer ignorance, give up and kill ourselves.
Oh you sweet summer child. But you know what, you have to try for yourself. Go debate amons on Zig Forums with facts and logic.
Hint: people aren't right wing for reasons that depend on facts and logic
you won't get far, right-wing forum moderators control and steer the narrative as soon as a lefty or even a liberal speaks with something resembling sense. you usually get flooded with retarded "dank" memes at first, and when that doesn't work, they swing the banhammer and you're done.
these people aren't ignorant. they know exactly what they're doing. some of the dumbass followers don't know, but it's hit or miss whether they're going to eventually see sense or if they stay in the echo chamber that feels good and validates them.
I tried to leftpill right-leaning hangouts on reddit and got doxed and followed by some shitlords, so there's definitely more going on than just people saying ignorant shit and spewing propaganda. I don't have a lot of hope, especially with much of the left being honeypots and pozzed types.
You might have better luck in spaces that aren't explicitly right-tarded, where the narrative hasn't been dictated for them by the sort of people I mentioned. There isn't even a need to say loudly and proudly you're a communist or agitate for a revolution or any of the usual tropes, in fact talking about revolution memes is counterproductive. So long as you have a firm grasp of Marxism and critical theory and know of what you're talking about, it's usually possible to at least stall the spread of right-wing retardation among the neutrals. For example, "race realism" can easily be exposed, so long as you don't fall into the trap of responding with empty platitudes about how all races are indistinguishable from each other, or say stupid stuff like claiming there isn't a white or European race. If you just scream at them with those empty platitudes, you're just giving the right wings ammunition to appeal to white identity politics and the typical horseshit associated with such (which is probably why such false consciousness has been deliberately disseminated among the left).
thats why it needs a collective effort, one person alone does nothing, if we keep posting threads here for multiple people to pile in and make in constant we can make a dent
You can do some of that if you like. It'd be great to have some different initiatives going.
Screencap as proof that this board tries to raid and subvert other boards.
abloobloo yeh whatever put it in the file next to your cuck porn file
Good idea. Spread it around.
if you honestly believe we were just going to leave you in your safe space you are retarded, we have always and will always convert retarded alt-righties away from their self-destructive ideology and into a leftist understanding of the world. It's good for your health.
do it fools
Zig Forumsyps don't actually read anything though. This is the problem when trying to recruit literal 60-80 Autism Level retards, it is easier to communicate with Coco the Gorilla than a typical aut-right dumbass, they are more drawn by aesthetics than actual theory.
consider: first lure them to no longer be so radical, then strike.
To me it seems impossible to "de-radicalize" the radicals on the right, you can only shift their focus to hopefully align with our own. They are absolutely obsessed with in-groups and out-groups, they unironically see the world as an endless race-war instead of class struggle, and any time you attempt to deconstruct that race-war narrative you are labeled a subversive race-traitor or Jew or shill or something or other and are effectively barred from any further conversation, you are "outed" from the group. God forbid you reveal that you aren't white, at that point they cease to even converse with you and just resort to outright hostility from the get-go.
If there is some way to deconstruct the race-war narrative without being immediately banished from conversation, and reveal to them the honest truth of class conflict being the essence of all human history, then they might be able to be deprogrammed, but really it seems like a lost cause for the majority of them. We ought to be reaching out to less radical communities, Zig Forumsyps require a vast amount of energy to deprogram.
See I fell into Zig Forums's shit before and grew out of it, I don't think you should take the stereotype of Zig Forums not reading as a rule–after all I'd say they're not more or less informed than the typical normie, just misinformed. Starting off with a Paul Cockshott thread gives the impression of something coming from within the board itself, while a Zig Forums general gives the impression of something foreign coming into the board just in the title alone.
I'd say the key to helping them is to be patient, friendly, and most importantly: to lure them away from Zig Forums. Given the chance you should include links to Zig Forums here as once they start browsing, they could get addicted and slowly find their view shifting. That's part of what happened to me.
I was a Zig Forumsyp years ago too, and honestly it took a lot of energy to convince myself that it was utter delusion, I think when it comes to the far-right they need to mostly get here on their own, because I know for a fact that nobody but myself was going to be able to convince me to drop the cringey right-wing shit no matter what facts I was presented with. I needed some drastic, real lifestyle changes to snap out of the Zig Forumsyp fever dream, these are things beyond our control, I think the most we can do is just act as a beacon for those who might have the personal drive to break free from the Zig Forumsyp rhetoric, because any intervention, at least in my case, was met with immediate hostility.
You cannot actively reason away anyone's beliefs through debate. The change comes from "within", all you can do is plant a seed and hope it grows. For someone on the far right who expects a Nazi masturbation fantasy in the future they are too far gone.
Could it possibly be that they are not all uniform in mindset and it may be possible to reach some through these methods, but not all?
"Right-wing thought" is not based on facts or logic you can't convert them by just explaining statistical facts to them and shit
This is beginning to sound very liberal
See what I mean? You got archived after one day. If any conversation starts going against the narrative the moderators want, the thread is quickly locked. I've seen information control work enough times to pick up on how this works.
I believe they have a defense plan in place if there were a massive left raid on their safe space, and they have the money to flood the zone with a bunch of horseshit to drown out a left intrusion, even if they have to do it with bots once the right-tard ideology loses too many genuine supporters.
I think you're thinking about this the wrong way. The right has never really been concerned with hearts and minds, of actually getting people on board with their ideology. It's more about controlling the zones of engagement in society, and securing state support or monied interests to "permit" the right to engage in its typical thuggery (because they won't stand on their own, and they don't want others to be able to stand on their own, that would be anathema to their program). You can try appealing to hearts and minds all day but, aside from being correct, you don't have much else going for you. Being correct doesn't win wars.
lolwut? Where are you getting this from? Zig Forums is vastly worse regarding red liberals.
Even if Madura was personally eating Venezuelan babies, it wouldn't be an argument for US intervention. Speaking as an anarchist Maduro is far from the worst to call themselves socialist but he definitely has serious flaws (GET OFF THAT OIL DEPENDENCY NIGGA). Having a nuanced view of a person doesn't take away from having a black and white stance on whether or not it's wrong for the US to coup them.
What do you mean? We got archived because we reached the bump limit of 300 posts. Are you familiar with how image boards work?
It is typical for generals to brand themselves as a board of their own. Further, indicating that we are from Zig Forums from the get-go prevents people calling us a conspiracy, and thereby takes away an excuse mods might have to ban us.
I am generally under the impression things like this do not work Bc people need a SELF realization that they were wrong, not to be told they are wrong.
Huh, that makes a lot of sense when I think about it. Never had thought of this before. And it worked for me, I used to be a socdem but now a proper socialist.
They work when you can outnumber people and make them feel like they have an opinion very much outside of everyone around them. We don't have the numbers to do that on 4/pol/ without circumventing the captcha and botting. Reasoned debate does nothing, and we don't have the posting power to propagandize effectively against that much traffic.
The actual best thing to do on 4/pol/ is datamine and look at the opponent's hand to formulate counterintelligence strategies to the right wing agenda. This includes spying on discords, vacuuming up data using surveys, doxxing, etc.
Yeah like when I was an “anarchist” I became pretty disheartened by some feminist shit that made me realize that stuff was a sham, even at that time if someone from this board came along and tried to recruit me I probably would have called them a fascist or some shit cause generally no one wants to be told their values are wrong by someone else.
I mean debunking their bullshit is never a bad idea, Doubt it’s gonna concert anyone though.
And most of that was filled with nonsense and you talking into the wind. The narrative control succeeded, and you accomplished basically nothing. That's what they want. Like I said, the first step is to flood the zone with a bunch of memeshit to derail any potentially meaningful discourse.
If you could bring a friend, then maybe you can double-team boards and present the argument that you have supporters, but eventually they catch on to this and accuse you of making sockpuppets, demanding proof, and other sorts of ways to stall discussion. If you start winning enough though, they'll just ban you, and when that doesn't work they start ratfucking with you and try to smear your reputation elsewhere on the internet. These thugs have pretty far reach (and I wouldn't be surprised if there's some intelligence agencies in the mix to steer the overall internet narrative… I mean, it was proven that an Air Force base churned out a shit ton of posts and upvotes on reddit, so there's definitely potential for this sort of information control).
we should make a discord room for doing this, vet all incomers though
If you want to go for it, I have time to waste but I'm a bad evangelist since I'm a disgusting NEET.
Isn't that literally what their entire board is? All they're doing is maintaining an active communist thread. There has been no consistent narrative to speak of. Onlookers only get one clear impression: Communists are a part of the Zig Forums landscape, and a heavily contested one at that. This is all that I intend to accomplish. It gets the dialectic in motion. Remember the fucking Bronies? Everyone on 4chan hated them and that's exactly why people got into that shit. All those guys had was an unexpectedly fine cartoon show, we have fucking Karl Marx.
No discords. Makes us seem like secret internet army faggots.
This. Can somebody photoshop the IWW logo onto that "nothing is beyond our reach" meme btw
Had an idea of making a liberation theology general on Zig Forums to appeal to some of our religious comrades.
Anyone have any good PDFs on Christian Communism/Socialism? Preferably with more of a theology focus? Thanks and God Bless.
Yes it is. You cannot debunk it because they don't care, especially on half-chan, which is almost certainly a covert branch of the CIA now. The mods do their best to make life as hard as possible for anything even remotely left wing while signal boosting and shilling right wing views. 4chan is not a "free speech" board, its a right wing think tank. I wouldn't be surprised if the Koch Brothers themselves were mods.
I did a nazbol general a month ago on 4pol, and it got to 70 post in 35 mins before getting shutdown. It felt awful, but the strategy was to get brainlets reading Marxist literature. But 50% was r/thedonald boomers that had never heard of nazbol telling me there would be helicopter rides, another nazbol shitposter got in on it, maybe 20% NutSac posters saying nazbol was Jewish cultural Marxism lel. And 30% were generally curious. I wouldnt repeat this strategy , it felt disingenuous, and there was no topical bait to discuss.
How about read Dostoevsky's demons and stop being a leftoid ideologue/useful idiot, cunt
Why should I read anything you suggest when you refuse to read what I have provided? Besides, Dostoevsky wasn't a pastor and lacks the theological knowledge and experience Walter Rauschenbusch has, not to mention Demons is, guess what, FICTION. Smh what are you going to recommend for me to read next, Atlas Shrugged?
you think the right doesn't have various secret internet armies
The reason I'm uneasy about going down that rabbit-hole is that Zig Forums has already pigeonholed us that way. Whenever Zig Forums is mentioned they start sperging over some cringy screencaps they found in the past. We leftists tend to be easier about being "cringy" than them. Our ideological edifice doesn't depend on us maintaining our masculine image. That always leads to them discovering something to focus in on, something that generates a narrative about us being soyboy cucks or whatever. That's what I want to avoid.
t. pleb unenlightened as to Marx's science of dialectics
Oh i se its a raid that isnt a raid how fucking clever you communist kikes was wondering where the shit on our board was comming from and i finnally fuckin found it welp niggers this is going to be fun
Why only try on the chans? There are still plenty of other forums etc on the web. I personally post on Gamefaqs since I was a kid. I do my best to shill leftypol there (mostly just gommunism in general), there must be something like that for some of you too.
I don't want to sound mean, again, but why don't you guys shill /marx/ instead? is it because the shitposting nature of this board may make it more accesible to newcomers?
It's so that they can get perma banned by the Zig Forums BO for WrongThink and get turned off of leftism forever.
That too, even a conservative will get banned here, couldn't make it harder for anyone that wishes to join. In the other hand there's the baboon poster, constantly banned but keeps coming back, each time a little more commie than before.