What was their deal? Apparently they were Marxist-Leninist but also adventurist terrorists? I'm especially interested in the status of Quebecois in Canada that prompted this, were they truly a repressed minority justified in their actions towards national liberation or was this a misguided ethnonationalist deviation of general working class struggle. They claimed to be the "white niggers of America" and drew comparisons between themselves and black Americans as having similar struggles.
Front de libération du Québec
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Leaf here, although I’m an Anglo so my view may be biased.
They were ML but their praxis was basically the same as the IRA, which would have been better if they had any real popular support like the Provos did.
Yeah they were never even close to black people in the US. The Canadian government has made special provisions to include and cater to Quebecois since confederation. Plenty of our most important Prime Ministers have been from Quebec, including Pierre Trudeau and Jean Chrétien, who basically wrote our constitution. They also implemented the Catholic school system, which are the only religious schools that get government funding despite Catholics being a minority outside of Quebec. Bilingualism is prevalent in every province EXCEPT Quebec, where anglophones are basically shit out of luck. We have bilingual government offices, signs, schools, military units, etc. The idea that they were oppressed systemically on the scale of black people is laughable.
The New Left in a nutshell.
Apparently they were Marxist-Leninist but also adventurist terrorists?
Clearly people we should emulate.
Real talk though, the URA members subjected to group criticism and violence were members of the RLF, an undisciplined anti-authoritarian Maoist trend. The Red Army itself was much more centralized and disciplined. Circumstances and repression forced them together, mainly due to the RLF having weapons – something the Red Army needed desperately. The Maoists were warped by nationalist ideology and bourgeois thought, just look at some of the reasons for their killings – only a bourgeois would visit the hotsprings when you’re supposed to be underground and preparing for war. Tsuneo Mori did nothing wrong
Which one of these led to the creation of a successful socialist society or even got close? These seem at best to be small and counterproductive factions of broader movements and most were just doomed sects.
Left terrorism is obviously demonstrably ineffective in the first world, we had a few decades to test the theory from the 70s to the 90s and not a single one of these groups succeeded in anything significant at all, I think we can comfortably toss domestic terrorism in the trash bin of ineffective revolutionary strategies.
Exactly, and it was a waste of time to even try it. Marx himself condemned Fenian terrorism in England as ineffectual and laid out why, followed by Lenin doing the same. By the second half of the 20th century we already knew that terrorism was one of the most ineffective strategies to actually achieve political change that could be attempted.
Ipersonally believe they where men and women ready to do what needed to be done. The people of Québec where always treated like second class citizens, we where not treated as bad as African Americans where, but the only reason is because they tried to destroy our identity. For a long time under the English regime (that's how we call the periode before the independence of canada and after the 7 year war) many of us could be refused services, jobs and more unless they converted to protestantism and stoped speaking french. During the 20th century we had to go fight in both world wars even if we strongly opposed it. During and after ww2 something happened in Québec and it was our cultural identity that was taking form, that time is refered as the quiet revolution, the FLQ only tried to make it less quiet and to open the eyes of the people that we can go even further then just a province with a special identity, but we could be a Nation that would oppose the system that brought us down and for that they will always have my respect.
As an Anglo Canadian I respect them as well, I believe Quebec has long since deserved independence from Canada, especially considering the more socialist leanings of the Quebec people. Canada is holding Quebec back.
Thanks for the info friend. I am completely sympathetic to the sovereignty of nations and national-liberation, and don't mean to undermine the right of Quebec to self-determination, was just surprised to hear the comparison to blacks because my impression has always been what you said, that there was preference for Anglos and assimilation efforts towards Quebecois. I have no problem with militancy and think it is necessary for it to accompany any effective socialist and/or national liberation movement to a large extent but that doesnt imply terrorism is at all effective let alone necessary.
This is basically what I assumed.
since you gave your point of view from a Anglo perspective, allow me to give mine that is from the perspective of a Francophone, I also want to warn I might also have a bias. I believe that we can just talk about our opinions and points of view in a respectable and mature way.
You should know that once the brits took over they have used the catholic church against us in order to supress any form of rebellion. Your point on Bilingualism is hard to believe for me. In Québec we don't treat our english population like shit, we treat them like anybody else, the law 101 is just there to protect our language and culture not to discriminate the ones of others. I also agree that the term white Nigger is highly exagerated when you take it literaly, but I believe that is was meant as a methaphore of beeing discriminated against based on their origins. We where basicaly just treated like the Irish where, wich might also explain why you can find alot of people of Irish decent in the separatist movement of Québec, from the rebellion of 1837 up to today.
Even today there is casual anti-Francophone discrimination in Anglo Canada, the systemic discrimination is mostly gone now but the culture is still bigoted especially in conservative communities. I see it firsthand regularly.
considering the majority of quebecois vote for a conservative (CAQ) or a neoliberal (QLP) party, it is highly doubtful life would get any better for their working class if they voted for independence
this is unlike in catalonia where they actually do have a sizable social-democratic/democratic-socialist coalition
I would have to disagree, it is true that Québec has elected a conservative goverment with the CAQ and have had the Liberal party in power for a long time, I would like to bring your attention to the fact that Québec solidaire, a highly left leaning party came in 3th place during the last elections, it might not be alot, but it is a start. The peopulation of Québec is getting more and more concious about the struggle of the working class, especialy with millenials and gen Z's.
That makes sense, Canadians I've met from Alberta and rural Ontario definitely have an arrogance about them.
What do you think are the prospects for Quebecs independence these days? Did the Quiet Revolution basically settle the question or is it still something a lot of people in general population want to happen?
I don't see why the French deserve any sympathy for being discriminated against by other colonizers while they colonize.
Rural Ontario is heavily francophone. Franco-Ontarians are a distinct group from Quebecois and often feel neglected by them.
He has a point though. Although French Canadians deal with some serious shit outside of Quebec, within the province separatists are some of the worst ethnonats. They regularly drum up resentment against natives, Anglo Quebecois, and immigrants.
If an independent Quebec could build socialism then decolonization could actually occur, the status quo is doing absolutely nothing to help the indigenous people here.
That's a pretty big "IF" there, buddy. Far more likely it would just be another obnoxious Yank protectorate that prattles on about how far more enlightened they are than their burger masters.
An independent Quebec would oppress natives as bad as or worse than the rest of Canada. Their separatist movement is pure ethnonat, they have no love for anybody who isn’t a white French speaking Quebecois.
So your solution is what exactly? Just don't build socialism? Sounds pretty counterrevolutionary.
Right now the Quebec seperatist movement is mostly ethnonat bullshit, but the FLQ was revolutionary ML, that is who I support historically here.
The solution IS to build socialism. What I'm saying is that narcissistic Yanks-in-denial won't do it, and that the category of French Canada is an inherently shit line to draw nationalistic conflict along. It's an inter-imperialist conflict.
Also splitting a multi ethnic country along ethnic lines is completely retarded and won’t help socialism in the slightest. If you want to build socialism in Canada it needs to be done on a national, multi-ethnic basis.
Are you implying it's effective in the third world? Where exactly has it worked?
Catalan independence today is just pushed by Catalan porkies, it isn't a working-class movement.
I'm just saying I don't know enough about third world terrorism to comment on its effectiveness. I would wager it is just as ineffective there but I don't have the knowledge to assert that.
Seems like if Quebec seperatists promised actual development and opportunities for the First Nations in the province they'd gain some additional leverage, from both the actual natives wanting to see actual improvement and exploiting the general fetishization of natives to give them the moral high ground in the press.
First nations are a huge pool of revolutionary potential in this country.
They won't because their entire ideology is inherently exclusionary. There is nothing that would be gained from Quebec's separation as far a socialism is concerned that wouldn't be better served by keeping the country together.