Roger Waters, lead of Pink Floyd, supports SEP in their defense of Julian Assange

WTF I HATE ROBERT OWEN NOW

This is what gets me everytime.

How the fuck could anybody pay premium to see PF live then get offended at them being "commies"?

Was he the head of a nominally revolutionary communist party?

Waters >>>>>> Gilmore. Change my mind.

beatles>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>those niggas

Reminder that Animals is the greatest anti-capitalist music album of all time.

Attached: 496_animals_lp_uruguay_front.jpg (496x499, 41.33K)

Despite their absolute commitment to anti-imperialism they have some extremely questionable views on sexual assault and, yeah, they are Trots so they're inherently a bit cringe.

Based

*blocks ur path*

Attached: EAA3BFD1-C172-4DA3-BAA3-B0799282B0C1.jpeg (300x300, 23.02K)

Try running a party without money. Mehring Books sold marxist literature and the funds was used to run the SEP. North isn't a millionaire and slander/lies is the best opposition that other groups can come up with because they can't refute the principled analysis of the SEP.

The WRP under Healy was the UK Branch of the ICFI which grew increasingly nationalist until differences were no longer reconcilable and a split was necessary. North and other leaders within the ICFI criticized the WRP's support of Hussein, the praise given to Khomeni, and uncritical support given to Khomeni and the WRP refused over and over the political council given by the ICFI. Ultimately the ICFI expelled Healy and the WRP from its membership in 1986.

The SEP was not formed out of the WRP as you claim but was organized later in 1995 as a transition from Labor Leagues to a Political party within the ICFI. It was formed out of an objective appraisal of the world situation, as the collapse of the USSR signaled the collapse of all bureaucratic organizations which claimed to represent labor. The SEP was formed because the ICFI acknowledged that workers could no longer rely on the trade unions for guidance and must instead turn towards a political party with a revolutionary perspective.

Not only accused, but there is undeniable proof that there were GPU and CIA agents within the party. The story itself is quite fascinating and if you have the time you should read more into it as the Workers League did go through a lengthy court procedure where infiltration was proven.

The party is growing rapidly right now and is organizing within the working class. There was a recent rally organized by the SEP in Detroit and rank and file committees of workers are already forming. The WSWS serves as a invaluable asset informing workers and revolutionaries about strikes and struggles throughout the world. Take the Matamoros strike for example, besides small local news outlets, only the WSWS was covering it. The work of the party requires participation from everyone who feels the injustices of the capitalist system and wants to take action. I encourage anyone who is interested in joining the SEP in this thread to go to contact them at wsws.org/en/special/sepjoin.html

Do I have to interact with the fucking SEP?

Roger Waters based as always. The Final Cut, what a good record, I love each and every one of those songs, but my favourite will always be the closing one, Two Suns in the Sunset. I love playing those 3 simple chords on my acoustic guitar and dream about Posadism :)

Because they aren’t larpers. They organize the working class. Also they don’t hate Americans, so this board thinks they should be burned at the stake for that alone.
wsws.org/en/articles/2019/02/11/auto-f11.html

Yes because their is no better party.

It is hard to top a rogue flying pig that shuts down Heathrow

Attached: Pink-Floyd-Oli-Scarff.jpg (1080x720, 130.81K)

opednews.com/articles/David-North-Is-David-W-Gr-by-Michael-Morrissey-David-North_Socialism-180209-959.html

Sure doesn't seem like just Marxist literature. North is also worth $25 million looking at the evidence in the article.

Splitting hairs. It clearly had its origins in the WRP.

The accusation was that the leaders of the rival trot parties were all simultaneous GPU/CIA agents, which is more ridiculous. Specifically that Joseph Hansen of the SWP personally sold Trotsky out. If he were a simultaneous GPU/CIA agent why would he later lead his party in opposing involvement in WWII, including leading strikes in war industries?

Still no indication that it's much bigger than the core of full time WSWS journalists whom David North pays to promote his personal political line out of his dividend payments.

Also not

trots should get trot'd upon if you know what i'm saying

First of all your sources are very dubious at best because the "evidence" simply redirects to blog posts and nothing of substance. Also it lists the worth of the company as $25 mill, not that of North. But lets take your word for it, SEP chairman David North is a multi-millionare capitalist.

Does that refute the analysis that the WSWS gives about the capitalist system? Does it refute the valuable work that the SEP is doing right now in helping workers form rank and file committees and link internationally? The perspective of the party is correct. Its correct in Defending Julian Assange and organizing rallies in his defense: twitter.com/TheLexMagazine/status/1094953965291094017
Its correct in reporting strikes that no one else is even bothering to mention, and it is correct in attempting to organize the working class against identity politics, postmodernism, and the capitalist system.

tortoskyism is just M-L without the cringe though

Read the blog post yourself. All the evidence about North is compiled there: "David W. Green" is sole proprietor of a $25 million dollar company according to public financial records, and David North is the pen name of Green according to the alumni magazine of his alma mater. All this is also corroborated by his former comrades. You'd think if this was all false then North would have disproved it by now but he hasn't.

You seem to appear in every thread about the SEP with virtually the same post and the same accusations.

Sectarianism is typical of almost every Trotskyist group; "utter" is meaningless as a modifier, except as a way to reiterate contempt. The ICFI isn't special in its sectarianism, and, disregarding the CIA/KGB explanations, many other Trotskyist groups do support things like imperialist interventions in Syria, Libya and so on. There are real differences between the ICFI and other groups, beyond mere sectarian in-fighting for its own sake.

I don't disagree, but virtually no party has revolutionary potential in the US in the current environment; you might as well ask why Marxists even exist in the US.

Regardless, I think the SEP does good work with the WSWS. It's one of the few socialist sites to oppose identitarianism, and its art review section is also generally not bad.

If it was true, North would get sued because using party funds for self enrichment is illegal and the SEP would be dissolved. The reason no "defense" is offered is because outside of some online forums, this isn't an issue that's brought up by the rank and file.

The accusation is the other way around: North is using his funds to enrich the party. And because the party and its full-timers would collapse without North's continued financial support, they don't dare oppose him in "unanimous" vote after unanimous vote.

North's status as a millionaire is brought up in just about every outside discussion of the SEP, it's obviously damaging their recruitment. He can't disprove the allegations so he keeps it hush-hush.

Trots are just ML but with even more cringe.
Not counting posadism

bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=37826532

Looks like that business doesn't even exist anymore. The unanimous votes could also be that the party members genuinely agree on their tactics and decisions as a tenet of democratic centralism is having disagreements worked out through rigorous debate. Regardless of whether he's a millionare or not, you still haven't answered why it makes a difference about the positive impact the SEP and ICFI have had:

"Does that refute the analysis that the WSWS gives about the capitalist system? Does it refute the valuable work that the SEP is doing right now in helping workers form rank and file committees and link internationally? The perspective of the party is correct. Its correct in Defending Julian Assange and organizing rallies in his defense: twitter.com/TheLexMagazine/status/1094953965291094017

Its correct in reporting strikes that no one else is even bothering to mention, and it is correct in attempting to organize the working class against identity politics, postmodernism, and the capitalist system."

Since I've invested this much time into this discussion, what do you disagree with the SEP on? What political positions do they get wrong in your opinion?

He sold it. That doesn't mean he isn't still rich.

I'm too tired to write up something comprehensive so here's some bullet points on what the SEP does wrong:

*Criticism of the party is apparently invalid because the party does stuff
*Hates existing unions so much as to support Janus / Right to Work laws
*Defends sex predators, not just "it's just about due process" but even after they're convicted (Polanski)
*Proudly announces "unanimous" votes. Why on earth would you be proud of that.
*Ridiculous crisis mongering, like the current claim that a military dictatorship is about to take over the USA
*Conspiratorial worldview. Everything and everyone outside the SEP are working on behalf of the ruling class, there is no concept of nuance. The rise of Trump and protectionism are just a controlled conspiracy by the ruling class to "push nationalism on the workers". Have you read FT / Foreign Affairs, porky is flipping out over right wing populism. Bernie Sanders and AOC were clearly chosen by a smoke filled Bilderberg meeting to divert working class militancy away from genuine socialism. Even other socialist groups are accused of being agents of capital - sometimes literally.

So yeah, that's my beef with the SEP. Politically I agree with most of Leon Trotsky's analysis, especially the theory of permanent revolution / combined and uneven development, but I'm spooked by vanguardism and "democratic centralism". Been reading a bunch of CouncilCom theory lately.

Attached: e4a.jpg (600x600, 25.16K)

And, in spite of all that, the SEP is the party that comes the closest to getting it right in the US. I say this as someone who has a disdain for Trotsky and Trotskyism in general. Out of the parties calling themselves communist—they seem like the only ones to me that goes beyond being a glorified book-club with a handful of LARPers

Prolly the closest thing to it in turn of the 18th century Britain. Some Russian who posted here said that the Bolsheviks ran some small enterprises to fund their operations. I haven’t been able to confirm but what do you guys think?

I linked to the actual article about Janus in one of the last threads you appeared on, and the article was ambivalent, not supportive.

The Polanski case is more about the agreed-upon deal being vacated by a judge, I'm fairly sure, not about the conviction itself.

My own impression from those articles was more they were warning that the bourgeoisie and their hangers-on were warming up to the idea of a military putsch of Trump, not that it was imminent.

I think you used to use a talking point about their fears over nuclear weapons, didn't you? It'd look rather foolish in light of the withdrawal of the US from the INF Treaty.

I don't find it any more "conspiratorial" than most Marxists. They do avoid actual conspiracies, and the articles against AOC and Sanders have been more against them as false socialists, which they frankly are. In explaining AOC, for example:
The first is no conspiracy. The second is more arguable in its reasoning as to why, but it isn't a conspiracy to say that AOC has been consciously promoted by the Democratic Party and media. In a typical conspiracy, both the actors and the intentions behind the event are in dispute, not merely the intentions.

Attached: DRvaDNNUIAAPoMt.jpg (750x421, 35.91K)

Attached: 7a1a20d.png (397x397, 289.43K)