Why haven’t socialist states formed industrial armies? From the early twenties until mid to late thirties the entire population, male and female should be mobilized for mandatory labor duty. At the end of their service, they have paid their duty to the state and are exempt from work barring periodic call-ups for emergencies in production.
Sure you can. Working hours are already too long, and without the need (or existence) of capitalists to extend the working day in order to squeeze as much surplus from you as possible, the work day need not be longer than 4 or 5 hours a day, depending on the job.
I see no reason why people can’t work short days and attend school simultaneously, and even for especially gifted students more dedicated to university studies in lieu of their labor-service, would be subject to periodic mobilizations, not to mention the service they would pay after their higher education. Here begins the gradual abolition of mental and physical labor.
You can now enjoy life, have children, devote your life to hobbies, continue your education, travel, truly LIVE
LABOR ARMY NOW
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Pregnant women over age 35 are considered to be of advanced maternal age and the sperm of men over 40 is increasingly likely to be defective. Do you want the population to collapse?
Only conscript men into the labour army then
Did I say that people can’t form relationships when conscripted? If a woman gets pregnant and has a baby, of course she’d be exempted from service for some period of time.
I think a better solution is to have different levels of mobilization depending on age group. It's exciting to travel around the country with people your age to work on projects when you're 18, but eventually people want to settle down. However, there are still all sorts of local projects that people can be asked to contribute to as they get older. So maybe
You didn't say "can't," but in practice it probably will be difficult for people to have children under those circumstances, if a labor army is anything like an actual army.
That’s a good point. Obviously, I don’t know since it doesn’t exist, but you’re probably right. I can’t imagine a large mobilization of entire age cohorts to proceed without rigorous, military-like organization. The key here is probably the age-range selected for service. The length would depend on 1) there being enough time to train adequately each conscripted laborer into a role fitting their aptitude and 2) the minimum amount of people that can be mobilized to run the economy
The entire population is already mobilized for mandatory labor duty, literally what are you talking about?
Good prole
This is still that same old "sacrifice the youth so old people can have a nice life" mentality. I'd much rather have that 15 years worth of labor spread over a lifetime and reduce the rate of wear on my body, while enjoying the benefits of socialism at the same time. If you have workers playing different roles based on age, you are de facto introducing classes, since the two populations will have different interests. Once people retire they will want to push the young'uns to work harder. The idea that you do service and then earn a retirement is just an adaptation of protestant work ethic and afterlife ideology anyway.
When did I say anything about what I want?
Read Marx, classes are an economic relationship. People who finish labor-service don’t automatically own the means of production and become bourgeois and wouldn’t even be exempt (in this scenario) from all labor, just long-term conscription
sound mostly unnecessary and fuck your youth/create unnecessary division in the population
Idealization of youth as a separate period from adulthood is exeedingly bourgeois. If you’re not treating your kid like an adult from the moment it can speak you’re doing it wrong
Key point here is that in this case heaven is real
If the socially necessary labour time could be reduced enough I would honestly recommended conscripting the boys at 16 or so working them for 10 years with reductions of the length of conscription over time as the amount of socially necessary labour decreases this being a very obvious signal on how close full communism is with a big ceremonial ritual conferring manhood upon the boys at the end of the tour of duty
If you find this puzzling, ask yourself whether if you were one of the men organizing the placement of women and children on the life boats of the sinking titanic whether you'd shoot a man who tried to get on the boats, or refuse a man who tried to bribe you
Why or why not for both cases?
Alternatively, you could take that 10 years of labor and stretch it out over 70 years so that you can work 1/7th as hard for 7x as long.
Like huge shifts?
Who would run everything then? I find it hard to believe advanced systems like air traffic control would be run by 20 year olds.
Like the opposite. Rather than working 14 hours a day for 10 years, you can work 2 hours a day for 70 years.
People in the labor army
You don’t put people automatically on the job, you have to train them properly for a period beforehand, people have to find what they are suited for, etc. I doubt people done with their service would be banned from working. There’s no reason demobilization should be mandatory. It’s like the Subbotniks during the Russian Civil War, voluntary unpaid mobilizations of workers in cities like Moscow and Saint Petersburg. Lenin hailed this as the beginning of communist labor
I'm sure Lenin's Red Terror had nothing to do with this
What about by 26-28 year olds assisted and supervised by experts who volunteer in field for the sake of interest, duty and higher learning? you know that whole personal fulfillment thing I hear one problem with retirement is boredom
How is that different than what we have now? You're literally just describing going to school and getting a job.
This is pretty autistic, children learn how to talk about the age of 4, but they are still stupid as shit creatures.
At that age you will still have them believe that for example the moon is alive and that it was created by humans. You can start treating them as adults around the age of 13/14 though when they finally develop the processes that are necessary for further development.
Earlier retirement, greater equality of opportunity
this comes from the same people who say that they need a job or they'd go crazy.
Like they need someone to give them menial tasks because they can't do it themselves.
I understand if you have a passion for teaching or helping people as a nurse or something but I can think of a million other things that would be more entertaining and fulfilling than working a job when I don't need to
There's been no explanation about how this means earlier retirement. If it's basically the same as it is now, where does the early retirement come from?
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Well like you said, it depends on the job. People find self actualization through work, any kind of work that fulfills them.
Honest question,
Do you have dyslexia or some other form of learning disability
Fuck off. No one is really explaining how the labor army does literally anything different than any other labor arrangement. It's literally just going to school, getting a job, and then retiring. That's the exact same cycle, it's literally what life is like for every working person on Earth, but with cool revolutionary language to make it sound edgy and different.
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this isn't a very good thing to rely on
They were spontaneous and completely volunatary. The country was in ruins, people came out to rebuild and help each other
t. will work until he’s 65 with no one to care for him
It is if the people doing it take on the obligation of being a commissioned officer
Point, but my point is that there already IS a labor army. We are ALREADY being conscripted into the labor force. Calling the labor force a labor army doesn't change anything.
If all you're calling for is earlier retirement, why bother with this "labor army" bullshit?
Are you dumb? OP is describing being basically retired by 40 give or take occasional service or volunteer work
no its still not a good idea to rely on people to maintain advanced systems "just because they want to"
I see anarchy in production, selling your labor power to capitalists – this is not the “labor army”, something that seems to be a tightly organized labor force
It changes everything. There’s universal employment through conscription, a set period of work that everyone goes through. It’s not exploited for profit, people are trained according to their wishes and aptitude.
That's just centralization and guaranteed employment under a socialist mode of production, which is a standard goal of every socialist state ANYWAY. I assume OP is talking about something different that hasn't been tried. Yet, I have yet to hear how a labor army actually IS different from any other socialist labor force.
What about severe penalties up to and including the death penalty for gross negligence or malicious harm by a commissioned officer?
sounds just an incentive not to become one
That's the point you need something to keep the wreckers who just want the social status and power that being a commissioned officer provides out
Labor discipline and a period of mandatory mobilization as part of a duty to the proletarian state. This helps abolish the divide between mental and physical labor, builds a feeling of civic responsibility and allows for people, after having completely their short term of mobilization, to seek intellectual pursuits or recreation. No socialist countries had anything like this. Just imagine something like Komsomol on a massive scale and embracing all adults in a certain age-range, give it ranks too maybe. If you put the entire population to work at one time or another planting trees I doubt they’d shit up and litter in parks as much, that’s what I mean by civic responsibility
Literally every socialist country has mandatory labor. The entire population has always been put to work. Are you under the impression that people are just lazing about doing nothing?
Point if trivia, it hasn't been that uncommon for socialist countries to conscript their uni students for harvesting the fields
To this militarized extent with almost all socially necessary labor conducted by the conscript labour army?
*of
the point is to make it less appealing to work extra for nothing more in return?
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and this is supposed to be communism
ok bud
Classlessness is not what you think it is
commission officers with special powers and privileges sounds pretty bourgeois
Class is relationship to the means of production, retard. Was the USSR bourgeois because there was ranks in the military? Because there were elected officials? Obviously not. Read Marz
Every country on Earth conscripts all socially necessary labor. If you don't work, you die. It's like that everywhere. The difference is that, under socialism, work is democratic and centralized - but you still have to work. There isn't a place in the world where people aren't conscripted into the labor force.
All you're doing is adding a military flavor for seemingly no reason.
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What is this LARPing dude
Does not compute
How about we set up a reserve army of reproductive labor who produce and raise children?
People aren't ants or bees.
Not yet.
It's treason then.
This is some dumb Soviet wank.
OP's idea is overblown and idiotic, but the DPRK does in fact use its army to serve the people by doing farming, construction work, etc.
Any well-read socialist would know OP’s idea comes straight out of the pages of Edward Bellamy’s Looking Backward:
[…]
annual."
gutenberg.org
In this scenario I would be shooting anybody trying to segregate life-boats by anything but age. Youngest first, no exceptions. Fuck off with your retarded gender shit. What's that got to do with using forced labor in communism, and specifically with concentrating as much as possible during people's peak years? Why would you not work half as hard for twice as long or 1/4 as hard for 4x as long?
At the end of the day it's just easier to give people basic allotment of resources and bonus credit to measure work until SNLT is low enough that all work can be voluntary. Grand narratives like "manhood ceremony" don't work in the postmodern world anyway, in case you missed the memo.
Lol i would shoot anyone that wasnt a waiter/waitress or coal shoveler etc if they tried to get on, and then take their kids (inb4 child killer memes). What a dumb analogy
I say 20 to 30 with "part time" work till 35. Teens are fucking dumb and .
Tbh, working together is good for forming relationships.
University study should defer labour service, not be an exemption from it.
For example, someone might do an engineering degree and then join a project such as building a bridge or a tunnel as a junior engineer and act in a leadership/expert role and work their way up to a more senior position as they gain real-world experience.