Reparations

Bank of America
AIG
JP Morgan Chase
Tiffany's

Yes, dissolve them all.

Well that's going to be a pretty fucking short list of people.

I feel like reparations wouldn’t fix the existing issues outside of being a token gesture. Would giving them money end racism? Would it erase 400 years of oppression and slavery? I feel like it could even make things worse, to a state where any complaint would be met with

Tbh, the only thing I fear is the symbol of giving black people specifically some kind of money sum for slavery will literally trigger the MAGA people so hard they’ll go full Nazi masturbation fantasy 1488, “Jew conspiracy against white peepo” etc.

Reparations would be a good thing for black people, and if it’s decided to go ahead with it I’d support the whole thing, but I just fear that it might be strategically a bad move over universal programs that economically benefit black people anyways. The latter would just be the socialism boogeyman, whereas reparations would threaten to continue to place the political conflict in racial terms, making the whole conversation continue to be in this warped idpol place that reifies the supremacy of racial conflict over everything in America.

How have other countries dealt with previous racism and colonialism? is America an unique example?

This is what neoliberal reparitions will look like.

we've already paid reparations. Affirmative action is reparations. Hate crimes legislation is reparations. There have even been private organizations that disperse reparations in the form of grants, legal aid, job training, etc.: NAACP, UNCF, etc.

All of the reparations are available to anyone of African ancestry, whether or not they can prove to be descended from slaves or not.

There are precedents for reparations, in 1988, Japanese-Americans that had been interred during WW2 were given money. Native Americans whose tribes had land annexed by the US Gov't receive a stipend.

There's a California Nazi known as Patrick Little who unironically supports reparations, like full throated hard-line backs it

lets give blacks $100000 to renounce their US citizenship and move back to africa

Tom Metzger wanted to give them land.

OP here.

I am surprised by how many deflections and strawmen have been posted ITT. Were slavery in the United States to be abolished yesterday, I am certain every single one of you would support reparations. Why does the passage of time change your outlook on this issue, especially since the brutal slave trade is responsible for the dire situation that African Americans find themselves in today? What if slavery were abolished 50 years ago? Should those that engaged in the practice be held responsible today- especially if they used slave labor to build the foundation of their multi billion empires today?

none of that happened to day and blacks have ample opportunity to improve themselves. furthurmore slavery is still an issue in africa and reparations would just be cosmetic

the same fag

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and?

samefag worst fag

None of what?
Where did I say otherwise?
That is the responsibility of those nations. Being the wealthiest country in the world, home to hundreds of international corporations that dominate global markets using slavery as a springboard, I am sure America can set a precedent here.
Material gain is not cosmetic.

Were you trying to make an argument here?

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give dem reparations n SHIIIET but first subtract all the money it costs to house, feed, educate and police them

SHIIIET looks like dey us money now lol niggers

fucking nigs go back to the zoos and reggaton shithole JUNGLES

you are just allowed one post per thread

is this the actual baboon poster or that faggot that likes to imitate him because he finds him fucking hilarious?

fuck reggaton musics

And you think a $1,500 check and a pat on the ass if you can prove your ancestry will fix that?
Reparations are a convenient way to ignore actually fixing the institutional economic and social problems that affect black americans.

Low effort. Learn to meme.

you screech like an ape, you autistic fuckbag. where did life go wrong for you?

PoC apes gave me a tbi now I take my revenge against them by being racist online

This. Actually surprised to see the rest of the libs in opposition to it.

yes it is. lottery winners don't automatically make their situations better many of them waste the money and end back up in bad situations.

a precedent of what? undoing wrongs to the ancestors of a people? also why not impose sanctions on those corporations instead of reimbursing wrongs to a people who weren't directly recipient of those wrongs

How would you even determine how much or what kind of reparations at this point? How much is enough or too much? And asking for reparations in the current political context would get everybody like tree fiddy and then declare the debt paid.

How about instead of identity based reparations we instead give poverty reparations? Black people are disproportionately poor so helping the poor will disproportionately help them. It will also not leave out any poor people for being the wrong color.

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um sweaty that's a problematic eurocentric cishet marxist viewpoint and we can't have that

I made this thread to engage on the subject. You think affirmative action breaks the poverty cycle that has been inflicted on African Americans by slavery?
You speak in meaningless generalities. I have clearly stated that the history of slavery is responsible for these problems, you seem to think they come from the blue. I suspect you are simply a racist.

Why are you even on this board?

the feminist anarchist poster is just a fun way to post, same thing if someone with a porky flag comes here talking about the wonders of capitalism.

Just give every black 10.000 dollar so they can shut up about it and spend it on stupid stuff and end up broke anyway.

If you are retarded (70iq) you very likely won't perform well in society regardless of how great the circumstances of your birth are. Jewish people have been persecuted all through history by extreme racism and active hunts. So why are people of our ancestry bankers and in elite positions while Africans are still running around in dirtshit huts?

jews weren't brought here in chains

Yes, that's why replying with ironic dismissal is an implicit endorsement.

Which country enslaved Jews en masse?

Blacks should give me reparations for making me hear their shit music.

I'm a racist because I think we should upend the system that caused the slave trade in the first place, rather than applying some feel-good bandaid that won't fix the underlying problem?

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And that difference amounts to what difference today? The major difference is poverty and social mobility. Dealing with poverty is the biggest single step to address that. Dealing with social mobility etc. (to permanently fix things) requires socialist revolution. Anything else is going to be shit like social attitudes which you can't legislate away in capitalism.

I'm so sick of the "blacks invented rock" meme. They invented blues 30 years before rock. By the time it became 'rock n roll', there were lots of whites involved and it can't be called a black genre.
All of this is besides the point anyway, because whites invented guitars and the 12 note division of the octave. Without either of those (or slavery), blues wouldn't have existed.

yeah wasn't being serious there, they make good music today too tho.

I've never liked hip hop. I can't stand music made by sampling other music.

No, I suspect you are a racist because you are intent on separating the history of slavery from the ""institutional economic and social problems that affect black americans". You seem to want to upend what… feudalism?

How about stuff like Daft Punk? not black music obviously but they have a very different style.

It seems like you are moralizing, and if so this is meaningless for the socialist project. People disagree about strategy, how to achieve certain goals that help move the communist movement forward. I think it is arguable that reparations represent some kind of political victory in particular for black people because it is directly tying the policy to race, and that taking on that policy could draw more support with black people. But if you're just talking about their material circumstances, what is fundamentally different or advantageous about making some kind of limited redistributive package called "reparations" (it is implied to be limited in scope since it is payment of damages, which are understood to be limited in some way) vs. making broad based reforms that have an understood intent of being a fundamental and permanent change in the way wealth distribution functions. Does socialism, DID even actually existing socialism, not provide for everybody a basic and continuously improving standard of living? So beyond some other political strategy why would it be materially beneficial to argue for a limited payment for damages over permanent entitlement to ownership and standards of living?

Black Americans should be aided because of their hardships today, not because of hardships they never experienced. When someone says they want to pay reparations they actually mean they have no economic plan to help the working class of all, least of all the most vulnerable members of society.

And of course it goes without saying not all black people here actually even need aid. The black bourgies should be in a re-education camp sitting side-by-side with their white capitalist brothers.

boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/203967320
Yes the link is archived
This entire notion is just a trial balloon for the Democratic party's primaries, meat and potato boutique electoral idpol

This is a pathetic deflection. The greentext in your reply is a historical fact.
This is akin to saying universal suffrage liberated women from oppression.

Thanks for your input, mongoloid. The banking industry shouldn't be broken up and regulated either because Trump bleated about it on his campaign trail, right?

It isn't a deflection, you can clarify if you want. I'm saying it seems like you are moralizing because the most obvious difference between those two things doesn't seem material, but psychological. If you're suggesting based on that difference alone there is an ethical obligation to take a different action, then it seems like you're moralizing. If you're saying that it is good praxis to support reparations, then I'm willing to consider it.

I don't know what this means. Are you suggesting that actually existing socialism is akin to women's suffrage, while reparations are a more significant liberation?

Yes, absolutely, but it should be land, control of certain industries, resources, etc. Same goes for native americans. Real reperations will not come under capitalism. Under socialism they shouldnt be reperations in the sense of America gives reperations to black people and natives, but in the sense that black people and natives have both equal participation in socialist governance and administration as well as ideally a special set of circumstances that prevent white majority areas from voting in explicitly or de facto racist ways, like some kind of oversight that would be phased out over a couple generations as racial metrics evened out/it becomes clearly unnecessary

IdPol has no place in a materialist analysis of society but its effects are undeniable and far reaching. Whether or not the Nation of Islam is as annoying or spooked as the KKK or the thousand white militias is irrelevant, they have a tiny amount of power compared to them and any proletarian democracy would need to ensure that the existing racial caste system in the US is prevented from transferring in any way to a socialist state.

Absolute delusion. I am white from a majority black city, I and my family have been mistreated by the cops and it was nothing compared to what I saw happen to our black friends and family. Not to mention how racist almost all white employers and public officials are, often violently. Drive through Mississippi and Louisiana and you'll see massive prisons filled almost exclusively with black people literally on top of the same cotton fields their ancestors worked as slaves on, and a few of them if they behave well enough get to go work as house servants in the state capitols and governors houses. I am not saying some Settlers bullshit that the majority of white people in the US arent also horribly poor, alienated, and exploited, and I'm definitely not promoting some privilege politics saying that white people need to repent or feel guilty or even stop personally being racist. Only that a racist caste system is an undeniable reality in the US that would need to be addressed, and if it's properly addressed it doesnt matter whether Cleetus wants to lynch Jamal as long as he has no way to. Socialists need to set up a society where we dont need to have individualist, moralist witchhunts because systemic racism is made practically impossible.

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Correct, Trump speaks from a class position here and it's not working class
Financial institutions of the sort you speak of, too big to fail, are parts of the commanding heights of the economy your state should nationalise

Excellent post, and excellent quads.

You do realize "America" is only one country in the America continents right? Natives in Canada have gotten reparations and receive certain tax breaks etc. Money isn't the issue. The issue is having no voice no access to skills and knowledge, and of course being preyed upon by capitalism. Money doesn't stop discrimination, or pollution, or destruction of their land. It's literally a way to buy votes and only a brainlet would see it as an effective way to enfrachise minorities. In fact it could easily have the opposite effect by stoking racial tensions and providing a rallying point for the "it's okay to be white" supremacists.

Uh oh we activated your trap card. No way I can win the argument now. God forbid we try to address the issues that oppress the entire working class instead of purposely dividing them on racial lines so that they are easier to control.

He didn't have to. Pointing out how retarded your question was is good enough. Not to mention you complain about straw men and then immediately set out to make one.

How far back are we talking? Also while on the topic can I get reparations because my ancestors were drafted and during their service miss out on an opportunity to make cold fusion thus causing me to be born into poverty? And if the nuclear family gets abolished I still get my reparations right? Just because my fate is no longer tied to an antiquated system of inheritance doesn't mean you will stop virtue signaling right? After all I have ancestors and their pain is my pain.

what a great way to win over the poor black vote. race card politics and get messy and ugly. she is going to see and hear some full on crazy racist shit.

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Why do you hate Italians?

this one is legitimate

however

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Reparations is the liberals' ultimate sleeve card to rile up and enrage the far right so they can posture as the only alternative.

This so much

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Maybe
No, it would directly address their problem as a race. Namely their lack of property, and the vulnerablility caused by that that has lead to their continued under caste status within the proletariat. Doesn’t mean reparations is appropriate.

Ah Zig Forums as liberal as it ever was.

The other issues you brought up are relevant but the to say money isn’t the issue is just cringe.

The issue I see with reparations is deciding who gets the money? Only people with a proven bloodline to a slave? To people who can prove their family has been in the US for generations? These records are hard to find. Do they give the money to anyone who is black? What about rich black people, do they get money?

To me, reparations seem like revenge. Won't the money come out of taxes? Black people in the US also pay taxes.

Why not just give massive tax breaks to the poorest Americans, of which the majority are black? Oh right, actual solutions are dangerous, best to rely on symbolic gestures.

Blessed quads. Blessed post.

Because the DNA of those people has been scatterred so many times and mixed with whites and whatever else that the reparation is fucking retarded. It's saying 'black' is the victim rather than the actual people who are owed. And they themselves were freed and that was the deal, hundreds of thousands of non Africans died for it. When people say the war wasn't about slavery they get ridiculed, but then you bring up the dead whites fighting and they 'weren't doing it to end slavery though so it wasn't a sacrafice. The South was fighting to keep slaves when it suits and the North wasn't fighting for slavery when it suits.
And the money spent already on the issue has been Astronical, American Blacks taken on their own are the wealthiest that will ever live on earth. And the problem is not money, the schools are black holes of money, they don't improve when they are shunted in to the white school it just makes that school worse. That's the truth. People need to start doing actual sociology for these people because the current shit is fucking absurd and they are so dogmatic about intersectional garbage it will never get better by actually solving real problems.

So what is your final solution then?

Why is the amount of money poured into black communities not reparations enough?

Because it doesn't match the level of systemic injustice from the American revolution to the present, and it comes along with a racialized criminal justice slave trade and regressive taxation in the form of state sanctioned lotteries funding private university for rich white kids.

Reparations aren't really enough though. We need to abolish private property, or things will not get better.

Gentrification doesn't count.

I asked every teacher I know who teach diverse schools and the ones over 35 have seen it all, and say they need to get the smart kids isolated as soon as possible because the longer it goes on they are just prey. The girls do better but are almost under constant sexual pressure (the smart ones) the dumb ones get knocked up or become drug addicts.
The way they teach now is utterly laughable, there are kids that have to be written off and those that can rebuild something, but not if education stays the same and they pretend every black kid can become Obama because they are doomed from the get go either by backround or zero interest in doing anything other than fuck it up for the few who can actually compete.

Ty

This shit is a distraction. I'm sure both Harris and Warren remember 1L con law well enough to know this is impossible. If either of them actually supported it, they'd vocally support packing the court.

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this is unfalsifiable also their lives are better than they were if they were slaves in africa.

No one has to play the lottery.
You understand that the universities can't discriminate based on race right?

It's a tactic to BTFO Bernie and laughably transparent

Doesn't really seem important to me. Honestly, affirmative action miffs me. Just because someone is (insert minority) they get a better chance than someone else? As far as I know, affirmative is economically blind outside of poverty admissions. As in, a poor black man and a poor white man of equal standing try to go to college, and the black man gets in. To me, that is wrong. It should be a coinflip, as they are both economically equal, which is the real blockage to college, not your race. But if it is literally race, then they should just attack the colleges directly and fire the racists.
But we shouldn't have such limited colleges anyways. Realistically, we need to nationalize and expand colleges to be able to teach as many people as possible. Right now, colleges are a way to transform a proletarian into a petitebourgeois or a labor aristocrat. If we can make enough college students, and if we make the college free, we can effectively lower this divide, thusly eliminating this class of people. (Most would recognize these people as STEMlords.)
And, speaking of class, it seems like monetary reparations would just make it harder to make people want to revolt as a class. Seems like it would stoke resentment and division.
I don't really know why Zig Forums cares about moral arguments though. Do we not all believe Communism > all other concerns? Just from a moral position, every generation that we don't establish Communism is a generation where seven billion people exist under Capitalism, and then a potentially "infinite" number of children who will suffer under Capitalism. Perfectly good children that will grow up to be sociopaths, sycophants, or who won't grow up at all. By any moral standards of Capitalism being bad, the potentially "infinite" exploitation that will occur over generations should strip away moral concerns as to what should be done to end Capitalism.
But, overall, reparations don't seem to make sense. No real benefit to the development of Communism, and even if I wasn't a Communist, these people aren't slaves, and can only be said to have disbenefited from slavery because of racism (kind of a jump) or the fact that there ancestors had less opportunities to make wealth, and thusly had less wealth to pass down to them. I think I just fully convinced myself to be against this just now. I hate inheritance, and I shed no tears that people had less opportunities to exploit others to benefit themselves.

Post more deeply about what you think. This is interesting but is straddling that line between frothing reactionary and genuinely intelligent leftist thought.
I think it is interesting to imagine that some students need to be written off, and that makes sense to me. Some people hate school and can basically no longer learn because of how they have developed, and it's not like there are so many higher education jobs we can't let them come out uneducated. Especially not when there are children who want to improve.
But post your thoughts more completely.

Well firstly college should be again restricted to those who can actually thrive or even survive it. The dropout rate is ridiculous and wasting everyones time and money. Unfortunately I don't know anyway other than a hopefully short term 'lost generation of mostly black men, and a divide between black men and woman, but a massive increase in mobility and bringing a new generation of parents with consciousness along the line of Asian and Indian immigrants. I have no idea how you solve the cultural problem of the men who have no business being in the school, because even jobs with living wage but low status do not appeal to them at all and if it isn't ballin or drugs the status thing is something that really is a problem. I seriously don't see how the immigration issue helps any of this, it's like draining water from an already overheated reactor. Liberal thinking is not going to help any black person so I don't know. I do know Malcolm X was a hell of a lot closer than any of these fucking clowns and there utopian bull shit.

They de facto can, by the ability to pay.

African immigrants tend to do better than black Americans who are stuck in a slave mentality.

ability to pay effects the poor of all races

If revolution could magically be enforced the reality is the gulags will be full and people are going to have to stomach that. There will not be a change of colour from one systems to the other as dealing with the lost generation will be the same in the time period.

Yes they do but black Americans are on average better Academically, but African immigrants will be on the higher end ability wise compared to the whole African American population so the stats favour them for median wage, like Indians.

But not all races have been systematically relegated to poverty for hundreds of years, so when you uphold the status quo or more deeply entrench the impoverished it disproportionately affects PoC.

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When you say, passage of time, you don't mean that the former victims and perps are now really old. You mean giving to people based on nebulous criteria, and taking from people based on nebulous criteria. Do you support Obama giving reparations? He is not the descendant of American slaves, he is the descendant of slave owners. The idea has been around for decades, yet nobody for it seems to have a serious practical proposal. And they even disagree on the vague outline (the biggest crock of shit has to be the variant of the idea that there should be some institution "representing" you receiving the money). I suspect the reason that detailed proposals aren't discussed is that the people arguing for reparations are just doing a dramatic performance of sorts and don't really mean it. Attention seekers.

That reminds me that white suprematist Richard Spencer is the descendant of slave owners and as far as I know still owns the farm where the slaves worked.

Mostly they have

African immigrants in the US are mostly an elite caste who have the money and education to make it to the US. A more accurate comparison would be between African-American descendants of slaves and the entire population of Nigeria.

a h i s t o r i c a l

prolly cuz they were the only ones brought here as slaves and given no reparations after being "freed"

bro white people dont believe black people are owed shit, doesn't matter if they were fucking you over 1000 years ago or yesterday

you ever hear white people talk about South Africa? "Apartheid was 20 years ago broham why dont these people just GET OVER IT, the past is the past xD".

white people also have a bad habit of stopping at slavery, where they jump from the end of slavery to today like nothing else happened between that LMFAOOOOOOOO

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