/leftybritpol/ - Here is how Remain can still win

The best kind of Brit.

Shit on Guardian all you want, but the readers are quite based

theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/24/average-brits-dont-want-policy-free-politicians-of-the-independent-group

bbc.co.uk/news/health-47359682

Labour is now not only influencing Tory manifestos but actually getting parts of their manifesto put into place while out of government.

The melding between our timeline and the one where Corbyn is PM continues.

Has anyone seen a Remainer fanatic suggest we should use the Euro after we rejoin, or is that too laughable even for them?

Well something like 30% of the country support joining the Euro so…

cite me a poll user, amazed its that high after Greece got buttfucked

nvm, I found this but still wtf

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I remember seeing it a bit ago, all i can find is this poll from 2007. Lemme look some more, might be closer to 20% but legit there are a load of people that want us to use it.

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Found this too from 2018.

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OK that and my own digging persuade me theres support but I still see it as a weapon against FBPE cunts. Make them say 'Euro pls!!' then hang Greece & Italy on them

Tbh I'm fuming at what a disastrous Brexit policy Labour have ended up with. It was essentially foisted on Corbyn at last year's conference so I don't blame him, but it's just so predictable what will happen if the second referendum actually goes through - Labour will be seen to have sabotaged Brexit from the start. How can they possibly justify having Remain on the ballot (an option which was explicitly rejected in 2016) but not no-deal (the most popular Brexit option)? The people voted against EU membership in 2016 but the terms of the debate will have actually moved in the opposite direction!

Labour's proposed Brexit is not a left-Brexit in any way. It would be Brexit in name only, even if there was a chance of the EU accepting it which there isn't.

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Just hope it doesn't pass, it's pointless assessing the situation until after the motion has been voted on as one just like it failed in January already.

Are all the Leavers united in this? But thats absolutely retarded.

So what is a left-Brexit? Wouldn't a soft Brexit please both Leavers and Remainers?

No deal isn't the most popular brexit option: fucking remaining is.
Also it appears that if a Second Referendum will fail in parliament anyways.

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Presumably anything that removes the state aid and nationalisation rules (they'll only be removed in no deal).
No? Have you just arrived in the UK today?

How is Remain a Brexit option? I clearly meant that it's more popular than May's deal.

And the current Labour Brexit won't have that? Tbh it would be dope to see Corbyn nationalize everything, gets stopped by EU and then transfer that impotence to justify leaving EU to nationalize shit

Nah I am an outsider, I just thought that Remainers and Leavers would be able to compromise.

*that no-deal is the most popular form of Brexit

It won't pass parliament so don't get yourself worked up about it.
As long as Labour is in opposition Corbyn can promise whatever tbh, there's no harm in him appeasing the europhile libs and showing everyone how he's totally fighting for what they want. As long as he makes no commitments to take us back into the eu once we're out, which he obviously wont, he can say whatever is politically advantageous, it won't pass through parliament and when we leave in a month or three months or whatever it won't matter anymore.

It won't. I think it's just something Labour are doing to make the Tories mad and make them look useless. You can file a good amount of Labour activity under outright trolling.
Nah, both sides have turned into swivel eyed obsessive tribalists for the most part solely focussed on owning the other team.

I'm not too sure about that. May's deal has a huge majority to overturn and almost everyone in the Commons would baulk at no-deal. We could easily see the Tories seizing on a referendum as the only way out.

Then the tories will be the one's doing it and earning the ire of the country. No tories will vote for a labour amendment, especially not one considering a second referendum of any sort. After this labour proposal is defeated in the commons if May does get an extension of article 50 and then proposes a second referendum herself and the tories get behind it they'll be the traitors as well as looking utterly retarded.
Hell maybe this second referendum if no Labour deal proposal being announced just as it comes to light that May might cave and extend article 50 is just a way to cuck the tories by preempting their own timing of endorsing a second referendum and make them vote against it.

The new Labour policy doesn't only apply if it's Labour that proposes the motion in Parliament. The terms of any second referendum would have to be agreed on by both parties, given the parliamentary arithmetic.

twitter.com/TimSuttonC/status/1100325101600415745

Getting right sick of this season 2 of a political drama shit

CIVIL WAR 2 WHEN

Yea, they're 100% not letting us back in unless we take the euro. if we ever even leave. that is.

Haha, brilliant. They don't even need to win the election, just have a strong base.

This anti semitism thing is tearing about the left of the labour party

It's really weird. Almost *every* person in the left media is attacking Chris Williamson for daring to say that Labour had been too apologetic on anti semitism. Any one who is connected and has a media career is trotting out the "optics" line. Members seem to be reacting against it.

Williamson's crime? He organised a screening of a film about Jackie Walker, the jewish activist who was suspended for anti semitism when she said that some of the slave ships were owned by jewish people. She's also anti Israel

why are both the labour left and labour right so obsessed with israel/palestine anyway.
i'm not diminishing it as an issue or defending imperialism or whatever, but it's a slightly bizarre tack for electoralists to take. I mean let's remind ourselves, foreign policy has no bearing on British elections. Churchill was turfed out after WW2 in Europe ended, the Tories got back in after Suez, Nobody but the Queen cared about Grenada, Blair got back after Iraq. What would happen if Britain broke for being completely anti-zionist? Very little. Israel would still have the support of the USA, the world superpower. What would happen if Britain broke for being completely pro-Israel? Well, the IDF might buy a few toys from BAe systems, but they'd be buying equal amounts of toys from America anyway.

I can't tell if it comes down to masked electoral and sectional pandering, an overinvestment in a moral dilemma that Britain has very little power to solve, hackneyed parallels to Northern Ireland, or typical British arrogance (including that of the left, by metaphor like the almost cute idea some elements of CND once held, long long ago, that if a great power like Britain refused nuclear weapons, it would encourage the USA and USSR - the other great powers to do likewise. A position that would be idealist if Britain was their equal and becomes almost comical when the real balance of power is examined.)

Meanwhile areas of imperialism where British influence is much stronger and more overt fall by the wayside. Everyone has a view on Israel-Palestine, what about the Chagos Islanders? Why does the left spend so much time on Zionism - which Britain can't stop - compared to arms-sales to the Saudis, which we could cut off tomorrow. Why do both left and right get into this argument while ignoring that Northern Ireland is without functioning government? Again, I'm not saying Israel-Palestine isn't an important issue or that Britain lacks all influence, but it definitely gets disproportionate airtime both from the left, right, centre, top and bottom of the party.

Because Zig Forums is right and politics ARE really controlled by jews.

I mean tbf returning the Chagos Islanders and ending arm sales to the Sauds were in the 2017 manifesto. I think a large part of it is that it is the only real imperialist element of British foreign policy that people openly and actively shill for. Like if you brought-up Grenada people would be like "oh well that was bad ofcourse", but apart from maybe intervening in Venezuela (and that's very recent) open support of Israel could be considered the only existing mainstream opinion that is anti-imperialist. Also another part of it is that despite appearances public opinion not just in Britain but globally has shifted against Israel: the fact Eurovision said they'd pull the plug if Israel held it in Jerusalem despite every other Israeli Eurovision being held in Jerusalem.
Also a lot of the people involved in BDS are AAM vets who see them as one and the same thing.
Honestly though, I think a part of the reaction is that pro-zionism is now becoming a stance to take in British politics: which is rally kinda weird. I honestly expect The Tiggers to run on a pro-zionist platform next election, and all that jazz. Ironically the Lib dems could actually come-out in support of BDS sooner or later since one of the people tipped to be their next leader is a BDS supporting British-Palestinian. So yeah, zionism is actually gonna be a topic that british political parties will now define their positions on in the foreign policy sections of their manifesto. What a world.

The left is inordinately concerned with the israel-palestine issue because they come from activist circles which have had israeli apartheid as their focus for a long time all around the world, and a lot of the activist types who have been 'active' in activism for many years are deeply invested in that particular issue.
Meanwhile the zionists are just well funded shills doing what they're paid to do because Israel is deeply invested in keeping an ideological hegemony of officially sanctioned opinion in the west firmly pro-zionist.

I mean, we weren't. Then the Zionists kvetched their tiny brains to the point of aneurysm and started actively interfering in domestic politics.
They've escalated what would likely be condemnation into inquiries and diplomatic expulsion.

When do you mean? I'm in my 30's and it was always a /huge/ thing in the left/activist spaces from where i'm from and in london.

It was nowhere near as ridiculous as having people form parties and brief the media for months out of butthurt over it.

I don’t understand why the left likes the EU so much. Isn’t it a bunch of unelected government officials that tell you what to do from brussels

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They don't. It's just retarded middle class students who voted lib dem before corbyn and will vote for modern Conservatives when they grow up and get careers, etc.

tfw you lose respect for Alan Moore, Stewart Lee AND Chris Morris in one paragraph

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Expected this tossery from the likes of Lee and Morris but from Moore it's just sad… :

It's a funny sort of anarchist that likes supranational psuedostates, yeah. Amusingly he was saying vote Corbyn, but wouldn't lower himself to do anything so plebbish. Does he even have a clue that Corbs has been Left-Eurosceptic his entire career?
theguardian.com/books/2016/sep/19/alan-moore-gives-heartfelt-backing-to-jeremy-corbyn-but-wont-vote-for-him

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Not really part of the anarchist space anymore but from conversations i've had with some and looking at social media full of idiot burgers and wanabe burgers and not all representative, i know It seems the standard position for the young, middle class student anarchist type these days. Very sad but university and manipulative men in dresses has made many of these people swallow the idpol pill whole anyway, so fuck 'em.

Moore doesn't even leave his own house IIRC. Leave that magician to his devices

I guess some still has some aspirations of a Yanis-tier Radical Remain and to create a United (Socialist?) States of Europe.

I have been waiting for quite some time for the emergence of the Anarchists for EU group. They're so predictable.

It's just the same old. 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' nonsense with literally no thought to it. It's sad, when i was part of that space the EU was referred to as fortress Europe and always as anti-migrant and racist. Greek anarchists laughed in my face when i told them that some 'anarchists' here are pro EU.

Its always middle class students who talk about socialism/anarchist utopia's but think pulling out of a capitalist trading block is "too risky" ect
They wear socialism like a fashion accessory, so when it comes to the possibility that they will loose out they start siding with the establishment

Alright but when he says something like Dunno about the Labour Party, all this antisemitism is upsetting my mate Gaiman. Makes u think., don't be surprised

But wasn't the argument to Remain or Leave back then precisely that it would be and is done under the Tories? Say what you will about the middle class students, they aren't the #FBPE crowd

haha, wut?

Morris's comment seems like a joke, doesn't it?

So we can all agree that Pokemon were used in the Pokemon version of the Troubles now, right?

Twitter thing, basically all the "centre" liberal melts who use blame everything bad that is happening on Brexit and Corbyn. And we are talking insane mind numbing takes, for example blaming Corbyn on something the Tory party did internally. Most of them are the sort of people who would suck off Blair given the chance.

I think it's time we organised against the real ruling class: Those pesky middle class students.

Unironically should organize against them though. they ruin everything they fucking touch.

oh shit, I can see it happening
observer.com/2016/07/everything-neil-gaiman-knows-about-good-omens-and-american-gods

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Gaiman is overrated af. He basically surrounded himself by actual geniuses and bathed in there warmth for his career. pathetic.

nah, all three - though they may take oppositional poses - have done very well for themselves out of the neoliberal dispensation and dread its end

*incredibly liberal voice* who is they? huh? huh? are you an antisemite, MISTER GAIMAN?

The party is an absolute joke.

Tbh Williamson is more of a liability than he is an asset: he is the equivalent of an SR.

Yeah the liberals need a good hard fucking purge tbqh. Now saying the Labour party are soft touches when it comes to being bullied about AS is the same as being AS. So what do we have now? Another case of AS in the Labour party!

Also true.

Joke: Williamson suspended from Labour
woke: Galloway readmitted into the labour party

I know Owen Jones is an easy target but he's just so fucking awful. And doesn't Ash Sarkar call herself a communist? Lmao.

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Owen Jones is like everyone wrong with the London left.

Gulag for literally every single person that complains about the Corbyn wing not agreeing with Corbyn but also entertains various arguments about Corbynism being a cult when.

The question is how many people must be sacrificed on the bonfire of 'dealing with anti-semitism' and how much rhetorical ground conceded before its enough?
We all know that the accusations will continue regardless of reality, we all know that there is literally nothing Corbyn or the Labour leadership in general could do that would satisfy the accusers because its not about that, we all know that if David Miliband or Angela Eagle became Labour leader next morning the anti-semitism claims would evaporate overnight. And I don't believe the Labour leadership is ignorant of this, they must know that the accusations are bad faith smears, yet they continue to cede ground on them and purge people who call out the smears for what they are, i'd be able to accept that as 'cutting your losses' but not when you're engaging is apparently limitless appeasement of an unappeasable opposition. What's the plan? or is there just no plan and Labour is simply in full retreat from the media onslaught?

The leadership should have fought back from the start but it's too late now. If it's got to the point where questioning the narrative is enough to get you suspended, what can you do?

No idea why they didn't fight back from the start, cowardly southern fuckers.

Its clear to me they are not going to stop until antizionism = antisemitism is the party line and to hell with the consequences

these two have to be either willfully disingenuous and playing politics or have got bad information.

Williamson was literally talking about how Labour was a great party because they were against racism and anti semitism. His words were literally the "scourge of anti semitism"

Also, I'm pretty sure both of them waited until he was suspended to make their statements,

lefties with many followers who have refused to throw Willliamson under the bus:

Craig Murray
media lens
asa winstanley
george galloway

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This is an absolute fucking joke, never fucking trust socdems

this isn't about ideologies. it's about people who are in a position close to power and see that going against the central power will jeopardise their careers. It's about virtue signalling

On the bright side everyone without a blue checkmark next to their name is backing Williamson.

that's what so strange? illuminating? about this. It's not like there's a split between the media types like Jones and Novara media, they are all coming out against Williamson, and implying he's anti semitic or at best "insensitive" when it's clear from what he said he did nothing of the sort.

feels like a dogpile and the outcome will be fear

Even seen a Jacobin writer stick their head above the parapet. All the main culprits are on BBC payroll, I wonder if it's still under MI5 purview?

That and the whole 'don't question, trust the leadership' angle almost makes it seem like they have orders from above and are following a clear party line. But maybe that's just wishful thinking for this to be part of some plan.

Which one?

We don't need to talk about conspiracies, This is about careerism. Ash Sarkar, who generally has good takes, is about to get her own tv show. She doesn't want to jeopardise that.

Owen Jones, and Momentum are the type who are absolutely petrified about being called racist. You may see people in Jone's comments attacking him as a racist and he'll brush them off, but everytime that happens, it knocks down his defense a little, until we get to now, where he know that if he comes out in support of Williamson, he'll get labelled a supporter of anti semitism or whatever.

Despite what seems like most of the regular members showing solidarity with It's not about the numbers, it's about *who* , and Jones and the rest of the commentariat care more about the establishment than the Labour party rank and file.

Let's see how the twitter celebs like Rachel Swindon fall

that line from Jones was disgusting. As if the plebs have to follow the party line. I'm still fuming about the time he and Alaistar Campbell did a video for GQ where they talked about how Corbynism had failed.

Fucking kill yourself, you fucking little babyfaced london prick.

Ah my bad it was a pretty neutral tweet on Jones' timeline and for some reason my memory had it down as a negative one.
lol, can't see her living this down tbqh
You're kidding right? Skwawkbox fucking love Williamson. I'll eat my own head if they come out batting against him.

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Tbh if there is a badger pokémon it will be 10/10.

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.

Don't call yourself a marxist and use this smear.

You are the only person that has posted this term you dumb fag.

Read what I responded to you dumb middle class faggot.

I've read both your posts and they're both shit. Shame.

I find it funny that this thread ONLY talks about fucking labour and circle jerks over bourgeois "leftism". Indistinguishable from the guardian comment section. Why is there no talk about actual socialism/communism in britain or any parties advocating for it? Like I see cockshott mentioned sparingly but it's all about fucking labour - a pro imperialist bourgie party.

Also just a reminder:

youtube.com/watch?v=rNfFd1pSIuI

I know I will have made the middle class babies mad. Sorry for exposing you to the truth.

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Lol you're that buttmad retard in the other thread who was crying over that terrorist. Still angry that I demolished your ass?

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Stop shilling your vids you soy addled fag lmao

No?

You use the same twitter-speak as that other mental midget. Of course I'll never know though.