Some ML comrade on Zig Forums arguing with Zig Forumstards, if you read this then I request you to stop wasting your time. That board is full of nazis, I am not sure why do you believe throwing out terms like 'materialism', 'Marxism of the age of imperialism', etc. would achieve anything, not even with socdems, but literally one of the most reactionary groups online. You will not raise a class-conscious proletariat or the next generation of Maoists from Zig Forums, no one comes online to have their views changed, especially those as deep rooted as 'joo-hate', white and male supremacy, bourgeois boot-licking, etc.
Zig Forums comrades, please stop wasting your time on Zig Forums when we have a board for ourselves. There are better things to do than that. Discuss theory/praxis here (until of course all threads degenerate into name-calling and leg-pulling) please with those who have already accepted Marxism as a fact, things are then a lot easier to discuss, even differing view points under Marxism.
Political opinion changes come from within, like when your whole worldview is shattered because you cannot resolve the contradiction between what the media and education force-feeds you, and how you are actually treated under capitalism, then you only need a push – can be anti-capitalist books, lefty friends/online forums, etc. Not a Zig Forumstard reading shit-post about Marxism on Zig Forums only to be call out OP race-cuck and spewing cold-war era anti-communist 'arguments', many of which Marx slam-debunked in his non-REM stage 3 sleep every night.
You were right in your first paragraph, you are right we shouldn't throw terms around and expect them to convert to the obvious reality of marxism, instead we must develop a simple as fuck method to introduce these concepts to even the most reactionary clown.
Ryder Jones
Well I agree but if someone is dumb enough to try spread Marxism on Zig Forums they're too dumb to comprehend your post so it's a moot point.
Luke Wright
We agree on that. We need to do this for people actually seeking to be introduced to the left. In my experience everyone on Zig Forums didn't become a nazi because they found Zig Forums, they are on Zig Forums because they already were nazis, so converting them to Marxism is a lost cause.
What I want to add to your post is that the left needs to do something that can pull in alienated people, like the Zig Forumstards do it: they use anime as an entry point, they have a board dedicated to 'redpilling', etc.
The problem is that the bar of entry to the hard-right is very very low. The left has it going with breadtube, but what else Zig Forums thinks has to be done?
Well yeah. But this post maybe, I hope, acts as a warning to starters on Zig Forums many of which maybe also are new to imageboards. We've had late teens on this board in the past.
Elijah Perry
and I can understand the excitement people new to the left have, wanting to breadpill others too to the truth.
Adrian Garcia
If only we could all be so lucky. Not sure what day exactly I woke up knowing that there are millions of people so corrupt the only way to make them safe for the left is to put them down like rabid dogs.
Austin Murphy
made me a doomer
Gabriel Adams
I don't honestly believe things can go on like this though. I doubt we'll even be successful but at least we might take a few of those bastards with us.
You wouldn't go to the Breitbart comments section hoping to convert anyone would you? Well 4/pol/ is like the Breitbart comments section after staying up all night reading the Turner diaries on Crystal meth. A lot of boomers astroturfing and LARPing as zoomers in hopes of saving the white race from abortions. It's unironically and literally their religion. In America, republicanism synonymous with Christianity to around 50 million people. You've heard this argument a lot I'm sure, but having been a part of the Christian conservative culture for decades I assure you that it's a thing. They see themselves as imperfect servants, antihero crusaders and fighting for Christ. If you want to damage in 4/pol/ argue religion. But, bringing conversational topics from State and Revolution, On Contradictions or The Accumulation of Capital is like bringing Planned Parenthood pamphlets to a small pentacostal church in Texarkana Texas. It's an apostasy. In a cult, the fanatics and most unprincipled self interested liars have the advantages of the leaderships affection (in this case orange daddy and the RNC). 4/pol/ is where you'll find the fanatics.
I hope you realize that the Tolerance of Paradox thing was used to jail Communists.
When push comes to shove Liberals will use it on you more so than the Nazis.
Caleb Walker
almost done the request. Should the berniefag remain a berniefag? or a more generic liberal?
Jaxon Cox
What is the tolerance of paradox?
Ryder Rodriguez
Even the self proclaimed Nazi athiests in there are mostly composed of people whom have deep seeded subconscious attachments to childhood cultural teachings of strongly patriarchal perversions of Christianity. Right wing biased contrarianism is just a self coping mechanism for the strongly patriarchal religion based moralities and heirarchy ingrained in them. These underlying themes of their belief systems are well hidden and obscured. Death presentiments and cultural taboos are strong invisible motivators into their self sacrificing political ideologies. Arguing against a capitalist interpretation of the Bible or some form of cult deprogramming would likely be the only effective rhetorical weapons against 4/pol/'s inherent and underlying religio-politics. Remember, that Christianity is based on Judaism which in turn is a highly political nationalist religion. The Jews never seperated politics from religion. Christianity inherited this baggage. Christian clergy have been bulwarks of authoritarians, monarchs and bourgeoisie tyranny since before Emperor Constantine.
Ethan Nelson
Paradox of tolerance Very effective in debates against freeze peach liberals.
You understand Popper was a liberal as well and this argument has been repeated against communists as early as this was brought up, right? Not saying this to defend fascists, far from it, but I thought I should mention that.
Connor Rogers
Karl Popper stole it from Lenin. Lenin recognized that the free press would be bought or bribed by the bourgeoisie to energize reactionaries. He was also aware that the fragility of the revolution required suppressing counter revolutionaries like the White army. Fascists and muck rakers like CNN or Alex Jones would need to be dealt with in the event of a successful communist revolution.
I didn't. Not that I don't believe that can not happen, source?
Don't disagree with that. Saddening, the amount of disillusionment the liberals can shove in.
Missed your previous post. I apologize other posters for my ignorance on Popper but Lenin and Stalin clearly make better arguments on this than Popper and given that he is a liberal and opposed Soviet diamat on the basis of 'falsifiability' iirc, clearly quote Lenin next time on this issue.
Wojak a communist. Pepe a reactionary.
Jaxson Smith
burgers please explain what it is about your country, and growing up in it, that makes your boomers so retarded. it's like a fucking cartoon caricature. our boomers were communists!
Andrew Hernandez
Honestly, I'm okay with the wholesale censorship and oppression of fascists and reactionaries in the media, universities and online. Fuck, I would write my local congressman please send them all to the gulag if I thought spending money on a stamp would make it happen. Those are well funded efforts mobilized by the ruling class. They honestly would struggle to survive considering the I.Q. level of the average adherent. Communism thrives during censorship and against Tolerance of Paradox legislation. Communists tend to be better educated, and smooth underground operators (unlike Nazis and right wingers which poop out without exposure). Just ask Lenin if a communist revolution is hindered by government suppression.
Not a burger but i feel each generation is probably less reactionary, is probably boomers still influencing public opinion that gives this patriotism, i mean America had an amazing growth up until a few decades i think, it's normal it produced this behaviour
Almost every successful communist revolution has been against the backdrop of heavy government suppression. Mao, Lenin, Castro.. Whereas every succesful fascist movement has been the result of bourgeoisie funding, overexposure and liberal tolerance.
Colton Moore
so you are saying that Christcom user needs to launch a grand crusade to save the souls of Zig Forumsacks
Grayson Scott
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand correct coloured arms version. 3rd time is the charm.
In discussing successful left wing movements against government oppression I almost forgot to mention Julius Caesar. He had to fight the Senate and Pompey to bring classical proletariats wealth redistribution through populares protocommunist left wing dictations. The senate and pompey were surely terrified of his left wing leanings and popularity. Historically, government intolerance only inflames a proletariat uprising against optimate ruling class shills.
Suppression of right wingers historically works wonders at killing their popularity as well. This can be seen with Caesar's corrolating right wing opposition the once beloved optimate Brutus who needed to flee after attempting a coup but being deplatformed for so long retained very little of the people's support. Point being, that censorship of right wingers and fascists only threaten right wing and fascist movements. Most successful communist leaders like Ho Chi Minh never had the luxury of government tolerance, but succeeded with great support against all odds.
Fucking hell looks like Marx turned it into an atheist organization run by himself why did he have to ruin everything.
Anthony Cruz
definitely someone who read summaries of Marx on r/communism101 and wikipedia. honestly who believes summaries do justice to any text, especially Marxism. Capital alone is at least a thousand pages.
Ethan Young
wikipedia doesn't get close to being correct about what Marxism is.
Jace Phillips
okay now add every single race ever along with the ones you already put, also add the objectively best socialist leaders of the 20th century next to mao also make it all photo realistic including pepe and wojak
Parker Robinson
Unironically, I would actually attempt this but it's past 10:00 and I work tomorrow.
Doesn’t work. I tried that on other boards. These Zig Forumstards just start larping as pagan, claiming that Christianity is a Jewish religion created to make warrior white race meek
Ethan White
Thus alienating the Christians who outnumber then I fail to see the problem here
Joseph Hernandez
Why would you not want people propagandising? Leftypol fucking baffles me you people literally want the left to be insular talk shops as if that hasn’t failed for 100 years
Noah Torres
But that change can and often must be helped along by external actors.
Luis Kelly
Just let them do what they want.
Anthony Powell
The problem with the person liked in OP isn't that they were spreading the evangelion, it's that they were doing it badly Stalin's short course is suggested reading before making another attempt, even Mao on the mass line
Austin Wood
*linked
Ayden Scott
i swear half the battle is just exposure. Pol wasn't always a NutSac hellhole but it was successfully astroturfed. You can do this with low quality arguments because most people who go there are just looking for something to believe. It is also good for the maoist who went their to hone their sub par vocabulary, as long as they aren't spreading rad lib shit its all good
Juan Rivera
There were some people asking good faith questions, basic ones sure but questions nonetheless. Also that guy needs to brush up his theory if he wants to do this again.
Jacob Cook
Anyone got that image about how this went down? I saw it a while ago but didn't think to save it, pretty sure it had screenshots from stormfront discussions and shit
Leo Price
They LARP as pagan, but don't find Paganism and Christianity mutually exclusive. It's basic occultism for Zig Forumstards. There is heavy doses of Christianity in occult circles practicing paganism. They are deeply affected by Christian doctrine even in their so called denial, but that presents the real problem:
They use it more to justify their politics than to justify their religion.
Lucky for the us the fear of death for people strongly influenced by religion out weighs the desire for a political ideologies outcome. The Nazis were praying their asses off, and embracing religion over state once the bullets were flying at them on the Eastern Front. The Nazis, had they won, would have likely transitioned towards a liberal-conservative theocracy after the war due to the influx of veterans. I suggest cult deprogramming, but obviously they will try to dress up their rank beliefs with arguments about LTV or niche economic arguments. It's like a scientologist utilizing their religions vocabulary as a coping mechanism as opposed to engaging in a mutually understandable argument. They won't try to break their arguments down into common language, because this presents opportunities to question them. Of course, some of them are actually astroturfing or have a stake in a ruling class heirarchy.
Landon Adams
CORRECTION: *obscure arguments against LTV
hope this was implied
Grayson Harris
What's that video from?
Ethan Harris
I mentioned external factors in OP: on needing a push from your friends.
Just a future warning for new comrades
They are doing it badly AND unnecessarily
I saw that. But the kind of questions those people asked too seemed as if coming from actual leftists: they were trying to bring the thread back to track and give OP something to talk about.
Camden Wright
I like the idea of learned comrades going to Zig Forums as christian socialists with quotes from bible and getting aggressive against anyone who rejects the word of 'God'.
Isaiah Ross
this
this
this
this
this
I just kekked my sides into orbit around the moon.
I'm going to break out my Thomas Munzter, Gerrard Winstanley and Terry Eagleton books tonight and bomb Zig Forums with hyperaggressive ChristCom evangelism based on their socialist biblical theories. We'll get a Zig Forums thread screencapping exchanges for pure entertainment.
christcom Zig Forums insurgency in Zig Forums when
Jaxson Morris
bump become Zig Forums needs to see this?
Jordan Russell
*because
Gabriel Harris
...
Jack Green
Just be friendly to the curious. I've seen a trend of reactionary types who have become somewhat disillusioned with capitalism for a multitude of reasons. I can sort of point to an example with casual Zig Forums threads going up about shit like: "Why do you hate Unions?" or "What's actually wrong with having free healthcare?" While of course these are not Marxist concepts they're most definitely a stepping stone. I think instead of a framework we have for them we just sit and ask questions and guide them from there based on an individuals own complaints with capitalism as a whole.
Julian Powell
This. Also take multiple comrades with you. The rest of them will be disguised, and from time to time react to your posts like "Didn't know Lord Jesus said that! Do you have more to read on…"? And since posts are anonymous, few comrades can act as many. Comrades will also ask meaningful questions, answers to which should be given in Zig Forums and christian language, just don't blow cover.
Camden Walker
And remember revolution is protracted and is like a wave. Raid multiple times, with different identities, at different times.
Christian Peterson
Yeah, a concerted effort would be beneficial given the anonymity. Even just one or two threads a day are enough to sow seeds of doubt.
Hunter Cook
These three, where are they? :D
Let's see if more comrades see this thread
Nolan Brown
I'm the third user you quoted. I was just cheering him on, I don't know enough about Jesus socialism to attempt anything like this.
James 5:1-6 Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure in the last days. Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in self-indulgence. You have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. …
Grayson Wood
Sorry to let you good anons down, but I'm too drunk now to do this on my own. I was counting on the more well-versed user doing it for the pleasure of the board.
Though who knows, maybe he's still studying and working out his strategy.
But this got me thinking. I know quite a bit about European pagan mythoogy, and since that's what polfags are gonna fall back on when our larping christfag owns them, I've thought of two points of attack to counter this.
1: Moral relativism. To pre-medieval people universe and all within it - including morality - was a sort of "balancing act". If there was strength, it was always countered by a following, equal weakeness. If an act is righteous,in tve next instance it's wrong. This is why Odin can in one poem kill like a motherfucker, while in tve next he's a crooked old man wandering the land. This is why in one poem of Kalevala, it's wrong to use violence to achieve your goals, but in the next it's completely cool to go and slaughter a whole village because they fucked with you. Conclusion: Christianity saved us from pre-post-modern relativism.
2. Plurality of religions. Old Pagans didn't by and large wage religious war other than defensively against Christianity. To the Vikings, Christ wasn't a false God, but a God of another region and another people. So Deus Vult and anti-Islamism is anti-European.
We could basically do a multiple front attack.
Robert Fisher
Nice post! I hope they are studying too, if the infiltration happens in the next two days, I will be ready to assist since I am learning about the same topic because it makes me think that:
Is the bible a proof that Think about it.
There are three possibilities: 1. If the feudal-era christians were really christians, then feudalism, capitalism, wouldn't exist (afaik about Christian socialism from this quote: ).
2. they were true christians but couldn't do what the bible said because those acts didn't fit their material conditions. So they only eventually only cherry-picked those verses from the bible which they could actually impose.
3. they were not true christians and only imposed what brought them benefit.
Someone who knows more christian history than me (I know basically none) can easily debunk my arguments, so I am waiting for that.
Very interesting. :)
Yup let's see how it unfolds, if it does at all.
Landon Lewis
not 'proof', *evidence
Luke Hernandez
I'll be on it at 8pm. Here are some ChristCom references:
Gerrard Winstanley makes a provocative case for full blown ChristCom (before communism existed he helped found a radical movement against Protectorate Cromwell and the aristocracy):
Thomas Muntzer helped lead the German Peasants revolt and has hellfire and brimstone arguments against wealth, private property and the aristocracy:
Google: Thomas Muntzer pdf Download the Sermon to the Princes link
They use actual scripture to school the clergy at the time. Terry Eagleton can be good if you find his ChristCom stuff online. I'll be relying on Winstanley as he makes the best and easiest to follow cases.
Kayden Russell
Oh shit, different timezones. 8pm doesn't mean anything here.
*I'll be on it in about 2 hours.
Ryder Gutierrez
Was just typing about timezone ;p Are you free by the way after 8 hours? I have an exam. Don't force it though, do what is comfortable for you!
The references, thank you!
Julian Jenkins
Maybe I can participate in the next wave because if you are doing it after 2 hours do it. Run a thread about it too.
Angel Gray
I'm going to raid the fuck out of both Zig Forums's with hellfire and brimstone ChristCom until it catches. I got Kali Linux tools set up to avoid bans (change IP and MAC address as needed). I got memes in the works, and will make it seem like a cult descended on them from multiple IPs. This is going to make me kek long time.
Alexander Jenkins
*4/pol/ and 8/pol/
Hudson Murphy
So I literally summoned Jesus fuckin' Christ with this post? You!
Kayden Gomez
If everything works according to your plan (and galaxy brain), everyone's gonna kek for a long time. The meme potential this has (and maybe this is a good cause)…
Adam Butler
After a month, I can help unleash the next waves (I use TAILS).
David Ross
One advice those: take it slow, piece by piece, let them chew and digest. Don't go FULLCOMMUNISM on them in your first thread. We will spread this over a long period of time and with each thread becoming more radical.
Chase Nguyen
i thought Zig Forums was a righteous board that didn't do raids :C
Austin Miller
'Raid' is a tool of class oppression comrade. It is not inherently righteous. Zig Forums is DoTP. Zig Forums is DoTN. As long as these two classes exist, raids will exist too.
