IT’S NOT 2019

what the fuck are you talking about, also it was muslims who didn't want to bake the cake, are you a fucking muslim? if so read

No need to go that far with your own violent projection. Just do what China or North Korea do.

why so much rage over someone bashing religion? The left you seem to talk about seems liberals tbh.

The real left is principled enough to drive their criticisms for all religions as far as I have read and talked.

There are many on the left who come from the background of being abused by muslim (or any other religion to be real) parents too. Your dogma is not reality.

...

Religion is alienation and results from the misunderstandings of the past ossified into tradition. That’s not to say that all religion should be forcibily supressed. The Supreme People’s Assembly of the DPRK even has a religiously-based party in it as part of the United Front with the WPK: the Chondoist-Chongu Party.

Ch’ondogyo’s pretty similar to Juche in some ways on the surface, stressing self-reliance and an anthropocentric outlook.

I am neither Korean nor have I unfortunately ever visited the DPRK. I really would like to one day but being an American its impossible for me as far as I know with Trump’s travel ban. I’m just a person interested in Juche and Korea’s ongoing struggle against American aggression. Recently I filed a claim for /juche/, so if you are interested check over there in a few days and I will be attempting to revitalize it as BO.

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I would like to visit too.

I read somewhere online that maybe you can circumvent this ban by making your way into DPRK through China. I am sure, judging by your interest in Juche and DPRK, that you know more than me, but here are few points I have read online related:

1. China has good job opportunities for say English teachers. So if you are a graduate who knows Chinese and can teach English professionally you can move to China.

2. Given the situations, you might think of dropping american citizenship at one point, and become a chinese citizen. Wages in China are not stagnant like they are in america plus they are doing a lot better in many statistics too (search china on r/communism). There are ample opportunities in China in the future too. Maybe, given the propaganda and trade war that is being intensified against China recently, such travel ban may be imposed on China too, so plan accordingly.

3. This one seems like too much, but someone claimed that given the travel ban on americans to DPRK, the DPRK actually doesn't put their stamp on your passport/visa whatever that is. But whether americans (country they are technically at war with) aren't allowed beyond Pyongyang that you have to see.

Correct my points though if I am wrong. These are just what others said on the internet that must be verified if you are interested.

This debate on religion is retarded.
Either
Or
It's literally inconsequential

I really hope you don't buy the propaganda that China or North Korea actively supresses churches

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Also I think you would find these comments interesting. Check out this comment section:
reddit.com/r/communism101/comments/19pf7j/_/c8qb087/

As I understand it explains how religious beliefs and dogmas actually form. A followup comment in that section also links to explanation of male behavior in southern us (reddit.com/r/communism101/comments/16g9jg/marxist_conceptions_of_agency_and_in_the_last/c7w2ru6?context=3)

I’ve heard many of the same things concerning China and circumventing the travel-ban. It honestly wouldn’t surprise me if North Korean officials didn’t care if there was a travel restriction for Americans or not. All this makes me sad that I’m a Japanese major and not a Korean / Mandarin major. I’ll probably be in Asia within a few years so I’ll have to research what can be done.

On a unrelated topic I’ve always been curious about the stories of the DPRK cultivating relationships with nuts here in America (Rural People’s Party). I’m not in the position now but I wonder how they’d take someone wanting to start a serious Juche group not tainted with fascism / cultishness

If that helps with your interest in Juche, DPRK, and a socialist future, please do. Good luck for that comrade.

If you have time, I am interested to know more.

Yeah, I've even seen comrades new to left struggling to shed orientalism (if that is the right term) against people of DPRK and China (reddit frontpage is a proof isn't it?).

DPRK uses the Gregorian calendar alongside the Juche calendar for purposes of international solidarity. Dates before Juche 1 (1912) are given in Gregorian years.
Also, by coincidence Taiwan Province uses a similar calendar called the Minguo calendar, which starts in the same year as the Juche calendar.

Here are some more important works:
marxists.org/archive/kim-il-sung/1955/12/28.htm
korean-books.com.kp/KBMbooks/en/work/leader2/3014.pdf
korean-books.com.kp/KBMbooks/en/work/leader2/3029.pdf
korean-books.com.kp/KBMbooks/en/work/leader2/3027.pdf
korean-books.com.kp/KBMbooks/en/work/leader2/3034.pdf
korean-books.com.kp/KBMbooks/en/work/leader2/3032.pdf
korean-books.com.kp/KBMbooks/en/work/leader2/3026.pdf
korean-books.com.kp/KBMbooks/en/work/leader2/00000314.pdf

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Thank you, comrade!
I’m about to hit the hay for the night so I won’t give you a personalized write-up but here is a good link:
espressostalinist.com/2013/05/29/white-power-and-apocalyptic-cults-pro-dprk-americans-revealed/

Hopefully I can get control of /juche/ and get it running again, check over there in a few weeks! Nice talking with you comrade.

I’m surprised how much stuff they’ve written that people on here never even talk about.

Of course will. Looking forward to it. We are anons but if I find any help is needed (in revival of that board) I will jump to help.

Thanks.

You too. Have a good day (or night).

but seriously, why the FUCK does the 7 day week exist and 12 month structure? Not only is the 7 day odd number scheme make it really frustrating to divide one's week into equal rational parts in any way one wants, but its days are named after gods and its structure has the accreations of 2 millennia of religious traditions that rely on its schema. It is inherently reactionary. The French Revolution already fixed this 200 years ago with the rational and even numbered ten day week and aesthetic month names (fluvial, floreal, praireal ,fructidor, thermidor etc. etc.). Even the mayans had 10 day weeks and a very orderly calendar system. Soviets had their own experiments in work set ups too

tfw kim il sung is the second coming of jesus
tfw when the wpk is the kmt in incognito

That’s gonna be a yikes from me dawg.

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The French republican calender is really awkward because there are multiple leap days and leap years are weird to calculate. Also the aesthetic month names only make sense in France. Also the length of times like days and years aren't arbitrary, one day is the amount of time it takes the Earth to spin on its axis and one year is the amount of time to revolve around the sun. Everything else is arbitrary though and I agree it should be fixed

Speaking of alternate methods of timekeeping we should really adopt decimal time.

How can we get in contact with the DPRK and convince them to adopt this as Juche Time?

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...

...

Year Zero will be declared when the revolution triumps across the globe. The Era of Man shall begin in earnest

...

true, historical materialism is the shit

Indeed, it will begin.

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fucking plebs

theres only one leap day every four years. That could be easily fixed by adding a leap day unless you mean the extra five days which can easily be made into a festival week like the mayans did. And I never said days or years are irrational lmao im more than familiar with the science. But even then days and minutes and hours can be divided in tens like was also done in the French Revolution. And aesthetic month names still beats the hodge podge month names of our current calendars though this isnt really a necessary reform because its more historical at this point

Duodecimal/dozenal system is a million times better than the decimal system.

If we're going for serious social re-organization the first thing we should do is eliminate decimal and go for dozenal systems of base 12. It'll make math for everyday life a whole lot easier, and structuring things around it is surprisingly easy.

I've read the 100 Questions about the Judge idea awhile ago. Yes, there references to Marxism, yes, there are quotes which are basically vanilla Marxism-Leninism differently phrased in a "Juche way", all fair enough. Don't mind it. But then, you come across gems like this:
ideology. The ideological basis that integrates people from all walks of life into the popular masses is socialist ideology and the idea of loving the country, the nation and the people.
I'm sorry, I don't think the DPRK is a fascist state, but can Juche user please explain what the fuck is up with this? This is literally textbook fascism and a NutSac definition of fascism. I could post this at Zig Forums and they'd think I'd posted Gottfried Feder or something. This isn't the only time where Juche completely jumps the shark.

Juche idea*

Yeah seriously the date today is quartidi 14 Ventôse in the year of the Republic CCXXVII, celebrating the hedge mustard.

Idiots.

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Also fucked up formatting the greentext because of the weird formatting in the pdf, just fuck me, you can figure it out.

Are you ironic? Can you explain the reasoning? Im the person calling for french calendar

Are you being ironic too i cant tell? Are you pointing out its more convoluted or what cause obviously we can tweak it to be simpler

I agree, the real revolutionary, universal calendar is based on the day some Korean woman popped out a baby.

Dozenal system is base 12 which allows people to perform several divisions because 12 is the smallest number to include 2, 3, and 4 in its divisors.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duodecimal

This is in comparison to the decimal system that only has 2 and 5 as factors.

Are you denying the great achievements of Kim Il Sung? In 1912 began the Juche Era (Juche 1). Through his revolutionary experience was born Juche – not merely a development and inheritance of Marxism-Leninism but an entirely new philosophy drawing on Marxism and fundamentally expanding and perfecting it

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The keywords here are “main” and “popular masses”. Referring again to this work the popular masses are referred to as the main agent of history. The popular masses are a social group with working people (i.e. the proletariat) as the CORE on the basis of the commonness of their demand for independence and creative activity. They are collectivistic, organized and revolutionary and substantially contribute to social development. So the popular masses with the proletariat at the core is all important, but the ideological basis is relevant in regards to the non-proletarian yet still progressive masses. Think of Robert Owen, a philanthropic capitalist. He became a (non-Marxist) communist but still held the ideological line of the proletarian movement.
The end-goal of Juche is the construction of communism and classlessness. This is NOT class-reconciliation or denouncing a revolutionary line. Juche maintains adherence to internationalism and Marxist-Leninist thought in its fundamentals.
I’ve only read his book on Interest Slavery and can remember that he thought the industrial bourgeoisie were good “captains of industry” and it was the bourgeoisie who were “usurers” who were the ones who were the true exploiters

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Juche calendar is just used for national dates, but the gregorian calendar is mostly used in north korea. Nobody said, what day is? and reply is 3/5/108

I had read Kim il sing and him son, but Kim jong un even didn't know He has books about Juche… In personal I think he's kind of reactionary.

What the fuck Julian Calendar?

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I haven’t read any Kim Jong Un, but he has a handful of works mentioning Juche
korean-books.com.kp/en/search/?page=work-leader3&keyword=juche

i read a little into it and it's an interesting concept that i never thought about before. but to point out the most obvious fault is that its too economically costly to transition and there are some trade offs as 5 becomes a prime number and the multiplication tables to memorize become bigger. I won't say that one is more intuitive cause obviously 10 is ingrained

Pretty sure they shoved in July (Julius) and August (Augustus) for personal glory.

Obligatory "A Marxist Critique of Songun"

but 5 is a prime number in decimal

I didnt mean that i meant a factor i think? Im a math brainlet

There is no valid Marxist “critique” of Songun that will not be a subversive work intended to undermine the construction of socialism in the DPRK. Juche is at the root of Songun and Juche teaches us that the revolution and independence of the popular masses must be defended at all costs. The nation should be like a fortress against imperialism with the popular masses integrated into the revolutionary army. The army is the party, state and people. A strong state equals a strong people, and the construction of socialism thus continues apace thanks to the profound theories of Kim Il Sung being to this day dutifully applied in the revolutionary construction by the popular masses. The army, Songun teaches us, MUST come before the working class and form the core of the revolution – the anti-imperialist military front is the lifeline of the revolution. The army is a social group possessing a stronger revolutionary spirit and, like the leader, plays a decisive and unique role in the revolutionary process. It is organized, disciplined and imbued with revolutionary consciousness.

Forward with the Songun and Juche revolutions

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Oof. Read Mao's "On the Correct Handling of Contradictions Among the People". There is always room for constructive criticism.

Maybe I was a little extreme and overly dogmatic in my first sentence or two, but I’m sticking with the general line of my statements. I’m going to assume a “Marxist” critique of Songun is going to focus on statements such as how the army is to be placed before the working class in the revolution and construction of socialism. I could be wrong, but I haven’t had the time yet to read over the critique suggested in this thread. It’s either Songun or destruction. The working class, holding supreme power in the DPRK are one with the army and state. The popular masses are directly in charge of the revolution and the army forms the central force of the agency of the revolution. Songun, developed from revolutionary experience of President Kim Il Sung, has become a necessary condition to the construction of socialism in the 21st century

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The issue I have isn't with the army and national security in general taking precedence over other concerns. That makes perfect rational sense given the DPRK's situation. What disturbs me is presenting this situation as some kind of development of socialism, or as something positive, rather than as a sad necessity stemming from the dire state the DPRK is in. It's this kind of glorification of desperate measures that presents what is effectively a state of emergency as the normal conduct of socialism. It's this tendency that in part makes it so difficult to dislodge the militaristic, strict hierarchies, and centralization that emerges under this conditions, because attempts to do so become construed as anti-socialist. Take the USSR as an example. It was perfectly reasonable that during the 20s and 30s they take steps such as the ban on factions, harsh measures against reactionaries, prioritizing military defense, even the purges have a certain rationale to them. The problem was that when these measures actually bore fruit, and the USSR emerged as a superpower, largely secure in its gains and capable of matching the imperialists on the world stage, these measures couldn't be dislodged. By the time Brezhnev takes power, its impossible to justify shit like the faction ban, and yet it persisted, because there was no legitimate way to remove it. I'm not suggesting that the DPRK should liberalize in any capacity, just pointing out its impossible situation isn't something to celebrate.

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by that reasoning we shouldn't celebrate any resistance

I’m not saying don’t celebrate resistance. I’m saying don’t celebrate putting the army over the workers as some kind of great development of Marxist theory. The DPRK by all means should be proud of its successful resistance against imperialism, but that doesn’t mean it should be proud of the shitty things it had to do to accomplish it. Americans can be proud of D-Day without being proud of Japanese internment camps. The same principle applies.

I would agree that Songun is partially born out of the troubling situation the DPRK is faced with in regards to imperialist aggression and isolation. On the issue of militarism, I think we may diverge. I think a powerful military is in general necessary for the defense and ongoing of socialism against threats both foreign and domestic, not to mention for the effects of military-training and life in stimulating a comradely collectivistic spirit, political consciousness and discipline. The entire people, both men and women should be armed, trained and ready for battle. Much of what I believe, however, may be labeled as “barracks-communism” by many on here though, though I would dispute that claim. If anything I’m influenced by the Industrial Army of Edward Bellamy’s utopian socialist novel with aspects of Songun and Juche.
The issue of militarism aside (I personally don’t see the problem in a non-capitalist, anti-imperialist society), strict hierarchy within the military is desirable and even necessary. Think of Engels’ advocacy for strict discipline in production in his work “On Authority”.

I think the Songun slogan of putting the army before the working class is somewhat misleading. The army is merely a section of the working class called up for service for a certain amount of time. The workers are still the masters of the revolution, although within this position the army (composed of members of this group) form the core social group. I don’t even know if it could be called a development of Marxist theory, Juche is not simply a development of ML, but rather a completely new philosophical theory.

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They're not putting the army over the workers though. The military of the DPRK works hand in hand with the workers. They get special time off for harvest season, they build housing, and many other social services. Also, importantly, they are defending the people! How can you be so dense?

Are you seriously comparing the DPRK's necessary self-defense with the USA's completely unwarranted concentration of Japanese? Also, D-Day was totally irrelevant, nothing to be proud of. Unless your brain has been melted by Spielberg movies.

Give the burgers their scraps m8

The only reason the burgers invaded Germany (after the Soviets had decisively turned the tide) was to salvage the Third Reich and create NATO out of it. Nothing good about it.

Maybe because in western countries, the army is the tool of the ruling class to enact opression, or outright agression. In many cases it becomes a self-serving structure for itself, taking over the burgeois ruling class positions of control, and putting their own generals in that place.

Armed forces of the DPRK are radically different in this regard. After all one can put more trust in ten million people each with a gun, rather than ten thousand of trained professionals. Want to place bets on which group will start doing serious war crimes.

Hint: Extrajudicial executions of POWs who were caught massacring civilian populations are not a war crime despite the formal definiton. Press such a question to a common person and they will more likely agree than disagree. Because of the empathy and understanding that they might as well find themselves at the wrong end of a gun. That does not apply to the middle class of Amerikkka, which will more than happily adopt an outright hwite supremacist views.

A cartoonist from Denmark(correct me if I am wrong) was correct in illustrating this.

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I’m making a point. I’m saying that celebrating a good thing you did, and a successful struggle doesn’t warrant celebration of the shitty things you did while accomplishing that good thing. Don’t be so sensitive.
Regardless of its relevance to the war, it was a good thing that hastened the defeat of fascism. It deserves to be celebrated.

M8 Stalin was literally asking them to invade Western Europe.

Prioritizing the military over everything else is literally what Songun is.
That doesn’t mean they don’t recieve priority when allocating resources.
Again, read my post. Songun is a completely rational and necessary policy, but it’s one born out of desperation an the siege conditions of the DPRK. It’s an emergency measure and a shitty thing that they are forced to do. Outside of the current context it would be a terrible policy, and it should be recognized as a grim response to a grim situation.

Thanks, now I have to pay 13 months of rent

You seem to think the military is some sort of super distinct stratum within Korean society. Remember that there is conscription and North Korea has one of, if not the largest militaries on the planet in terms of population : military size ratio. They are merely a certain social-group of the workers with decisive importance in the construction and defense of socialism. Like another user said, these people fulfill many of the duties of soldiers, such as the soldier-builders of the Anbyon Youth Power Station in the late 1990s who worked under the hardest conditions, showing what Kim Jong Il rightfully called the revolutionary soldier spirit. Songun is merely Juche established in the politics of national defense

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I’m not denying any of that. But consider that Songun also demands that resources be allocated to the military above all else. That means that instead of schools, hospitals, improving living standards, etc the military gets everything it needs first, and the people get what’s left over. And yes, I realize that the military and “the people” overlap quite a bit, but the army being well armed and supplied doesn’t translate into a higher quality of life, even for soldiers. I’m not saying that the DPRK is wrong to adopt Songun, just that we should recognize it as a policy borne out of dark necessity that should be abolished as soon as it is safe to do so.

If you're already staging a complete societal revolt then you're at a prime opportunity to transition something as base as your numeral system at minimal marginal cost.

So is it true the strongest kush is selled in the DPRK? I heard they don't even treat like a drug there.

I've heard that their weed is actually quite weak, like the stuff westerners were smoking at Woodstock. It's because they haven't had the intensive selective breeding to increase THC levels which was in large part driven by the black market in the West.

The Songun-based revolutionary line is obviously a product of its current circumstances. This is what makes it a scientific theory that accurately reflects the demands and times of the revolution. The changes of the 1990s, as I'm sure you would agree, necessitated the formulation of Songun politics based off of a scientific analysis of the international circumstances and their affects on the Korean revolution. As the work "Songun– All-Powerful Sword of the Present Times" explains, Songun politics must continue so long as imperialism exists on Earth and its aggressive machinations continue. If Songun was meant to be eternal it would deviate from scientific theory. Songun and Juche are science

I agree completely, but my main worry is that these kind of things have historically tended to develop a life of their own. Just as the centralization and bureaucratization of the USSR aided in its development, but became entrenched and impossible to remove after it became obsolete. Songun seems like the kind of policy that could cause similar problems in the future.

i shiggy diggy

*blocks your path*

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Sorry, but Jason Unruhe has shown through his own videos and lack of knowledge that he is most surely not a Marxist. He and his Lin Biao-ist, Unmarxist "theories" can suck my dick. Songun is a scientific theory formulated from the objective conditions in the international situation and its bearing on the Korean revolution.

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The DPRK isn't doing anything shitty though. They're literally just defending themselves. Fuck you counterrevolutionary scum.

It was strategic, no different from the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. The Soviets were trying to get the USA to focus on Japan and Germany to prevent the USA from immediately aligning with the Nazis.

Imagine if the DPRK had a "Water first" policy, where they expanded water production to improve harvests and hydrate the workers. You'd be screaming that the DPRK was prioritizing water over workers.

You are a whining bitch. Again, by this standard, all resistance is "shitty" and not worth celebrating. You deserve the wall.

Yes they are. They are spending resources on tanks and nukes instead of hospitals and schools. This is objectively a bad thing that will cause the standard of living to grow more slowly, if not outright stagnate or decline. Like I said earlier, Songun is a sound policy to deal with their situation, but it’s one that has many negative effects and these need to be recognized.
Except that would actually improve the worker’s standard of living, which Songun does not.
No it isn’t. You are refusing to draw a distinction between tactics and strategy. It’s entirely possible to use destructive and unsavoury tactics in pursuit of a good cause and sound strategy, and that’s exactly what Songun is. On a tactical level it harms workers by funneling resource to the army, even as it protects their interests on the strategic level by warding off imperialism. It’s no different than soldiers celebrating the fact that they took an objective while mourning the fact that it cost the lives of their comrades. Similarly the DPRK can and ought to celebrate the resistance against imperialism while mourning the unsavoury steps they had to take to achieve it. I don’t know why you can’t wrap your head around this. You’re also getting super emotional and hostile despite the fact that I literally said that I supported Songun and that it was a good policy.

If they didn't spend resources on tanks and nukes, America would fucking kill them all.

They have to spend money on tanks and nukes, it’s a country under siege and the South is already occupied by the imperialists. And even despite this, they are able to construct a prosperous socialist society with access to healthcare, quality education, etc.

Look at these pictures and tell me that Songun hurts the living standards of the North Korean people. Imagine how it could be without imperialism now.

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Yeah, which is why I said that Songun is a good policy that the DPRK should continue. Actually read my posts.

Yeah, that’s why I said I supported Songun.
That is what I’m telling you, because it’s literally impossible that a policy like Songun doesn’t draw resources away from the civilian economy, thus slowing the growth in the standard of living. Drawing resources away from the civilian economy is literally the entire point. My question to you is to point out where I said this means that they should discontinue Songun. In fact I literally said the opposite again and again. All I’m saying is that Songun has definite tactical drawbacks, and that these need to be recognized. I didn’t say that those drawbacks outweigh the benefits. My main concern is more related to the long term implications of such a military centric policy, which I laid out here
Even still, I want to make it 100% clear that I support Songun under the current conditions, but I’m not in favour of ignoring the drawbacks altogether.

kys

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...

I said the opposite of this. Learn to fucking read, I literally said
I’m just pointing out that downsides exist to the policy, but I said multiple times that they don’t outweigh the benefits. Stop being a fucking retard.

Why are anarchists always like this?

And they wonder why they get gulag’d, killed and called infantile

I didn’t even say it was bad. I said it was good under the conditions. I just pointed out that it has drawbacks, especially in terms of the long term integrity of the DPRK’s civillians institutions. Are you suggesting that Songun is literally perfect and beyond criticism?
I didn’t parrot any propaganda. I just described the drawbacks inherent in the policy. It’s not propaganda to suggest that a military first policy draws resources away from other areas, or that it has the potential to lead to the military becoming growing beyond the control of the civilian leadership. It’s just common sense. Would you prefer that we not acknowledge the drawbacks of various policies and just pretend that everything is perfect? Also I’m not even an anarchist you double nigger.

You literally said it's shit.

No, I said it was a shitty thing to do as far as the DPRK’s civilian sector is concerned, which it is, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a good policy. It’s a policy with benefits and drawbacks, but the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

Yes, you keep doing this thing where you think you can call something shit and then say its good. It's retarded. You know what would be a shitty thing to do to the civilian sector? Neglect military spending, leave themselves vulnerable to invasion, and then get them all killed by the American military.

No it’s not. Songun is a policy that has shitty side effects, and under any other conditions would be absolutely terrible. But under these conditions it’s good. I don’t see why this is a hard concept to grasp.

Because we AREN'T under other conditions, so it's irrelevant.

I disagree with “absolutely” terrible but they aren’t under any different conditions, hence why Songun politics must be followed until it becomes unnecessary

It’s not irrelevant, because policies that empower institutions such as the military tend to pose long term threats to civilian institutions. I’m pointing out a very real challenge that will be facing the DPRK even after the threat of imperialism subsides. I’m also just pointing out that celebrating being forced to funnel all your resource to your military is dumb, since it’s like celebrating having to fumigate your house for roaches. Obviously fumigating for roaches is a smart and necessary thing to do, but nobody fucking wants to do it or treats it like a good thing.

Guys you're retarded here. All this comrade is trying to say is that Songun is good for Best Korea's current situation, but it would've been better if they didn't have to spend so much resources on military. It's not possible now, because of the imperialist threat, but it would've been better if there was not threat.