What are some good arguments against the line that x or y country can't be socialist because it is...

It's a hard knock life

youtube.com/watch?v=fUuK6JtP7xA

Tell them that patriotism isn't mutually exclusive with socialism and if you truly love your country then you must be against capitalism for all the damage it has done to it.

Well if you live in a country with a strong Enlightenment tradition you could easily argue that socialism is the logical conclusion of the Enlightenment, which it is.

What planet are you guys from? Real question.

yeh, all men are equal and all that jizz, that's part of the enlightenment right?

What did I say that was untrue?

At this point, any form of communism in the United States will probably be the result of balkanization with the impending economic, social and climate crisis. Although I don't really agree with pic related. New England will likely retain its succ dem stereotype, New York will become a fascist dictatorship in constant conflict with New England and Appalachia. Appalachia will likely become "the commie" state given our long (and even present) history with labor unions. Utah will become a Mormon theocratic fortress state and the Midwest will be a free for all, and the South will become "New Afrika".

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In your mind, that's a scenario you can actually imagine happening?

What I’m suggesting is that you could tell people that socialism isn’t un-American, and more than that it’s the logical conclusion of America’s founding ideals. This isn’t me randomly theorizing either, plenty of leftist orgs in the US used the language and rhetoric of American liberalism as a starting point. They argued that capitalism failed to live up to the values laid down by the enlightenment, which were inherently American values. It was used to great success, the CPUSA in the 30s used the slogan “Communism is Americanism for the 20th century”, the IWW wrote songs to the tune of the Battle Hymn of the Republic, the Black Panthers quoted the Declaration of Independence in their 12 points, etc. It’s not a question of invoking enlightenment philosophy, it’s a question of invoking the dominant ideals and related national identity of a particular country, something that is much easier if those ideals are based on the enlightenment, which inherently lend themselves to socialism.

Don't appeal to reactionaries by trying to rewrite their history. America was a liberal shithole from inception, founded by white supremacist landowners, who specifically wanted to keep common people away from power.

How about this: "You can join us in the new world, or die with the old one"?

Your first mistake is thinking anybody but the professor or pundit class is thinking about this country and their life in it in such fairy tale or storybookish terms.

No wonder they're such large and important organizations, what a winning strategy.

Nobody gives a crap about any of that shit beyond:

First of all get your histmat straight. Liberalism in the 18th century was a massively important revolutionary movement.
I’m not re-writing history. I’m saying that the ideals expressed in the founding of the US logically conclude in socialism, which is true. The faults of the founders wasn’t their belief in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, it was the position that these values applied only to rich white men. However when we take these values, thoroughly examine them, and debunk all the spooky horseshit about race science or female inferiority, we arrive at a set of ideals that have socialism as their only possible expression. Remember, ideas don’t emerge fully formed, they develop in accordance with political struggle. Life and liberty for rich white men produced the struggle for recognition of all white men, then the recognition of blacks, then women, etc. This progression ends in socialism.

You’re taking this too literally. I don’t plan to walk up to people and tell them that socialism is the logical conclusion of America’s founding ideals, not in so many words. I plan on walking up to them and saying “Freedom is a good American value, and capitalism makes us unfree.”
Groups like the CPUSA and BPP were major forces in their day, they failed because of the lack of objective revolutionary conditions, nor flaws in their rhetoric.

Coercion is definitely a persuasive argument. But then it depends on having greater might than those you are trying to coerce.

I say think about it how an advertiser or a marketer would think about. People are currently subscribed to Service X from Business X. You want them to cancel that subscription and subscribe to Y Service from business Y. How would you go about that?

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Haha, I've seen that onion clip before. In real life, shit would turn into a Zig Forums Nazi masturbation fantasy fan fic immediately.

youtube.com/watch?v=GGYYiBcEFlc

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And all the politicians and CEOs would already be on private flights out of the country before anyone knew what was going on.

wow…. so this is the power of bootlicking

what would be much more likely is that big enough cities/college towns would be socialist, trying to defend themselves from reactionary rednecks/ retired cops who arguably wouldn't care about what goes on in new york or san francisco, as long as they don't try to bring expand too far into the countryside.

Reminds me of this article I was reading yesterday.

Tempe PD: 14-year-old boy with airsoft gun shot, killed by police

The Tempe Police Department said on Wednesday the "man" that was shot and later died at the hospital was a 14-year-old boy.

Police also said he had a replica 1911 model airsoft gun, not a real handgun.

Police said the officer was chasing the teen near 48th Street and Baseline on Tuesday afternoon and he turned around and the officer felt threatened so he fired his gun.

"This is unfortunately a situation that the officer is going to have to live with forever. They're going to carry some issues with them now that they know it wasn't a actual firearm. However, they're doing exactly what they're supposed to do by policy and procedure in their training with the police department," said Kevin Boontjer, a retired police sergeant.

From the comments:

ObeyLaws Jan 18, 2019 1:41pm

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10 minutes later…

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I don't know why you're quoting me. I didn't say anything about killing anyone. That was ☭TANKIE☭ poster. My post was saying that people who would make statements about something being un-American are the last people you should try building a bridge with. If you're in a field of stones and you're trying to make a pile, you start with the stones that are closest to your pile. Not ones on the other side of the field.

Maybe what I didn't say is that I don't think the majority of people in America would say shit like that anyways. OP must be purposefully going out searching for these types.

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Settlers get the nuclear fire too.

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You're right there, fellow revolutionary.

It doesn’t matter what a person’s ideas are. What matters is their class. Convincing a reactionary prol to be a socialist is a million times easier than convincing some queer radlib labor aristocrat.

Ok, then go do it.

You fail to understand to the decisive role of ideological consciousness in man’s activities, lapsing into vulgar thinking. Have a Juchepill:

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In order to convince people you have to appeal to them.

For the past fifty years the Burger left has been appealing to “progressive” labor aristocrats. It’s been a failure. Instead we should appeal to workers (even if their conservative). The truth is that half the time they aren’t as reactionary as you’d think. And unlike labor aristocrats they have class interests in socialism. It’s been done before, half of the people who support the Bolsheviks during the Civil War supported the Tzar ten years ago.

Go do it then bro. Don't let me stop you. Also: they're*

Are you doing any serious convincing of actual workers? If everyone who bitched about how dead the left is in America we'd be a socialist paradise by now

I’m underage

hot

That explains a lot