Poll: bans on religious garb

Ethan Powell
Ethan Powell

What do you think about bans on wearing religious garb in public? The main example of this is obviously the various bans on hijabs and burkas, but of course it can also be extended to other religions and clothing.

There seems to be a big difference on this issue between the first and third worlds. In the first world, these bans are associated with the anti-immigrant right and liberals tend to oppose them on anti-racist grounds. In the Islamic world, on the other hand, such restrictions are strongly associated with the left (Tunisia, Turkey, ex-SSRs).

What do you think about such laws. Are they universally right or wrong regardless of the country, or should different standards be applied depending on the political context. If you do support such bans, should they also extend to, say, clergy? What about less conspicuous garments like rings and necklaces?

This perhaps leads to a larger question–should a socialist state aggressively secularize the country and force religion out of public life (like in the French revolution)? Or is it better to take a passive approach by simply removing state support for religion and letting it wither away due to education and higher living standards?

strawpoll.me/17561304

Attached: bosnianhijabprotest.jpeg (203.24 KB, 656x400)

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strawpoll.me/17561369

James Thomas
James Thomas

By removing the material conditions that give rise to it and educating people. For example, "the real danger facing the churches in the GDR today is no longer a direct confrontation with the state. . . Numerous parishes have already dwindled down to a small handful of worshippers, if that. But since the church in the GDR—unlike that in the West—does not have the opportunity of compensating for its dwindling religious substance and attractiveness by social activities, it is hit all the harder by the process of secularization." (Sontheimer and Bleek, The Government and Politics of East Germany, 1975, p. 125.)

In other words the church no longer had the need to dispense charity to the destitute or carry out other societal functions. One's belief in religion was not tied to economic or cultural considerations. This obviously weakens the influence of religion.

Ethan Morales
Ethan Morales

Religious garb is not necessarily the issue. Burkas are bad because they are a symbol of propriety and reinforce the notion that women exist for solely for males. Hijabs and various religious "modesty" requirements might require elimination if they are likewise used to keep women oppressed (which they usually are.)

Jace Wilson
Jace Wilson

This argument is dumb because if someone is really that extreme about it they'll probably just not let their wife/daughter go out at all.

Anyway these bans are dumb handouts to far rightists disguised as feminism or some shite.

Jaxson Turner
Jaxson Turner

This argument is dumb because if someone is really that extreme about it they'll probably just not let their wife/daughter go out at all.
And then this presents a problem that authorities can intervene in
Got a problem with that liberal?

Benjamin Bennett
Benjamin Bennett

I just thought of a follow-up question. Should a socialist government allow private religious schools?
strawpoll.me/17561369

Bentley Lewis
Bentley Lewis

Now that's a nonono

Elijah Sullivan
Elijah Sullivan

And the women will say it was their idea and you'd get nowhere, plus you've alienated them more. Great solution!

Joshua Sanders
Joshua Sanders

thinks women are so weak they won't try and escape

Lincoln Allen
Lincoln Allen

Most people don't escape their culture, especially not by force. If they see society as friendly and well intentioned then I'd say they're much more likely to try and see what it has to offer. If society oppresses them and alienates them, guess what, they'll most likely retreat inwarda and become more extreme.

Liam Smith
Liam Smith

islamic culture treats women as chattel

Tyler Butler
Tyler Butler

Under no circumstances should religious schooling ever replace regular schooling, on any level or in any way. I myself grew up muslim, though I did not believe in God ever. I remember my dad forcing me to go to some fucking religious pseudo-school where they taught scripture. Absolutely bizarre. Thankfully my dad was understanding when I refused (not that it would have mattered to me) but I knew many whose parents were not.

Adam Brown
Adam Brown

Private schooling in general would have to be extremely illegal under socialism. Otherwise you would have to contend with reactionaries attempting to brainwash and train youth to destroy their own future.

Xavier Fisher
Xavier Fisher

Homeschooling should be fine though
If someone believes their child requires one on one personalized education, and is willing to put the effort in, then let them
Probably the best outcome for children with special needs, saves the classroom from disruption and the teachers from headaches as well

Ethan Martin
Ethan Martin

how 'bout licenses to allow people to educate their children at home

Isaac Hernandez
Isaac Hernandez

Dunno comrade, if the kids passing the yearly exams then why do the parents need a licence?

Isaiah Hall
Isaiah Hall

Who knows what kind of garbage is being taught, though? Passing a test isn’t indicative of the entire teaching picture, no? What about social development as a child? Friends, etc. We see clearly that social isolation has big and damaging effects on kids today.

Oliver Phillips
Oliver Phillips

Most homeschooled kids turn out fine, even with the garbage they're being taught
As long as they're being taught well enough to pass the exam, especially the tertiary entrance exams who gives a shit

Henry Hall
Henry Hall

How about we let people wear what they want? They can wear their hijabs and you can wear your retarded animu t-shirts.

Evan Morris
Evan Morris

This is an anti-Marxist position. Public, free, mandatory, quality schooling has been a marxist demand since the old man himself. No way in hell should parents get to keep their kids out of school and brainwash them into being anti-vaxx, flat-earther, creationist, faith-healing, whatever dumb shit believers. Parents are not the owners of their kids, kids deserve quality schooling, and to not get their social development retarded.

Isaac Bell
Isaac Bell

brainwash them into being anti-vaxx
Mandatory vaccinations are a given.

William Walker
William Walker

you will get vaccinated in socialist motherland
but also you get to teach your children vaccines aren't good
mmm

Hunter Wright
Hunter Wright

I don't like Islam as a religion but banning their religious iconography in particular in a vacuum is both reactionary and literally does nothing to stop Muh Mudslime terrorism since most Jihadists are young men in 20s-30s anyway

<TLDR
No

Ryder Rogers
Ryder Rogers

uh, thought you wanted to ban everything /pol/ pot (marijuana weed dude) poster

Thomas Phillips
Thomas Phillips

Those protestors don't look Bosnian. Also, why are their signs in English? I've never met a Muslim Bosnian who was in support of the hijab. This all seems very fishy to me. I found a Facebook group that is pro-hijab in Bosnia, that has over 44,000 likes, yet the posts in that group get 0-5 likes and no comments.

Bosnia has been flooded by rich Muslims from the Middle-East. They take over whole villages or build their own, then in those areas enforce fundamentalist laws. The people of Bosnia have always been secular, and only culturally Muslim. The only real Muslim thing they do is they don't put pork in their čevapi. For ramadan they give up alcohol if they want to be observant, other than that they don't change their eating habits.

This banning of burka/hijab only hurts the fundamentalist Muslims who came from a foreign country.