How do we solve the alcohol problem? It is often pointed out that religion is the opium of the masses along with various forms of capitalist-produced mass entertainment, but what about the greatest of all – alcohol? Before someone has an apoplectic rage over "muh booze", let's look at some of the facts concerning this poison:
There is nothing redeemable about this poison and the negative effects it has in the social domain. If there is one thing you need to do, remember this adage: ==Thinking workers don't drink, drinking workers don't think!==
With the victory of socialism incremental steps towards the curtailment of alcoholism and the use of alcohol in general will and must be taken. This will not be an instantaneous program, so whining about Prohibition has no relevance in this thread, but will form an important part of the education and ideological development of the socialist man and woman. Under socialism it is the task of the dictatorship of the proletariat to fight the ideological and cultural war against any and all bourgeois and reactionary culture. Alcohol forms a part of these social ills in need of elimination, along with idleness, individualism and other forms of outdated thinking. Alcoholic animals are in need of re-education and sober camps should be set up to ween them off of this poison. It is truly an addiction of immense and frightening proportions – this thread shall serve as a testament; the alcoholics will rush in and cry that their precious poison is under attack and threatened. Fun does not mean healthy or conductive to a good society. For those of you who feel driven to this poison, please seek another way, dedicate yourself to the revolution. Follow the example of Rakhmetov.
trot poster is gonna come and tell you why you can't take away his booze
He is one of those who is severely addicted and in need of help. To punish the alcoholic is counterproductive. They need to be rehabilitated for the good of all. The alcoholic fears the teetotaler, because he is afraid of facing the reality of this system.
I say just raise its price, what else can you do besides straight up banning it (which as we all know is an awful solution). Also, I prefer the "religion is the heart of a heartless world" quote compared to the opium quote, the former was also said by Marx.
It's better to offer options for recreation and socializing which don't center around alcohol. Growing up I had a tough time with this - most of the places for fun in town were bars. Places which were open to people under 21 often had cover charges, and many of the bars straight-up barred entry by people younger than 21. Just dancing or talking to people are too connected to boozing - I'm not anti-alcohol, but I think if you want to solve this a big part of the solution will be allowing for more cheap recreation.
Putting high excise taxes and educating people against alcohol are the best options. Launching an alcohol version of the War on Drugs would be immensely unpopular and overly burden the people the policies would be implemented to benefit (i.e. working people)
Religion is called the opiate of the masses for a reason: you can make similar cultural observations about actual drugs. Societal decay leads to alcoholism, not the other way around. People aren't idiots, the negative effects of alcohol are common knowledge in any place that alcohol is legal; they abuse it anyway because it is an escape from the psychological toll of a hard life. Psychoactive substances should not be left unchecked, but hardline policies always backfire horrendously.
I have said all of this in the OP and throughout the thread. We are in complete agreeance
ok free crack for the blacks just don't drink booze ok?
i just said free coke for blacks crackhole=yes boozehole=no
two state solution solves whitey-nigga conflict regarding crack and booze
Yes it has the capacity to be extremely harmful and needs to be taken more seriously as an abused drug but it is in bad faith to act as if the presence of alcohol necessarily leads to this, it is probably the most ubiqituous and widely available drug around the world so of course most people's desperate self harming drug abuse is going to use alcohol. But that it is so ubiquitous and widespread is also indicative of how many people are able to use it responsibly, or at least not destructively. I'm not saying there's nothing to be done but "dude prohibition lmao" is fucking stupid. So much of this abuse would be solved by the most basic social safety nets like having gaurunteed housing, food, and healthcare (removes a massive amount of anxiety and depression that leads to drug abuse), encouraging other robust forms of socialisation and creative production (public art studios, coding labs, good libraries, community events, etc, all sort of cultural impetus) so that people arent just getting drunk in their freetime because theyre exhausted and theres nothing better to do so its the most efficient shortcut to having some fun and forgetting your problems. Then add good public transit so people who do drink dont risk killing themselves and others driving home, and finally prioritize public health including addiction treatment and awareness.
Why even make the thread if you know that youre right and everyone who disagrees with you is a delusional addict refusing to hear the gospel of Juche moralism? I dont know if its just you or if theres a couple other Jucheposters going around sperging out abour this shit but you really are some insufferable cunts, impossible to talk to.
If you had correctly read my post and skimmed over the thread (which is admittedly hard with these retards shitting it up), you would have seen that I do not advocate for a flat-out ban. I even mentioned it in the OP and here and
I'm not the only one but if there's any Jucheposter that you hate it's probably me
Instead of a war on alcohol, why not a people's war? You could make it legal to steal people's drinks and pour them on the ground, give kids labor credits for confiscating their parents' stash, etc.
Admittedly I only read through your first post and just responded to that. In this case then I think youre basically making a good point.
No problems, user. I tend to write too much shit and ramble on anyways
Honestly, I think tobacco might be a bigger issue.
I don't know about you guys, but I'm WAY more addicted to cigarettes than alcohol. While the societal effects might not be as immediate as with alcohol, nicotine's short effect requiring constant redosing, coupled with the fact that it does not interfere with day-to-day activities, creates much more potential for addiction, and a large public-health crisis.
It is much easier to use alcohol in moderation than tobacco in moderation.
That said, a severe alcoholic is much more of an issue than someone who smokes three packs a day.
holy shit, tell me how does it feel to do that, i haven't even drink in my life.
try replacing with snus, vape, lozenges, etc
No idea, I'm not THAT addicted (yet). Just using it as an example, because there are people who smoke that much. I probably go through a pack like every two or three days.
Deaths from alcohol consumption are usually deaths of despair caused by the stress and uncertainty capitalism subjects people to. These deaths would certainly decrease under socialism.
How did alcohol death rates work in the USSR? why did so many people commit suicide up to 1990?, were they not happy?
Three packs a day? I've never even gotten to that point at my worst. They are both horrible, but still… get worried. Three packs a day is seriously a lot and not normal. A pack every few pays is also a lot: most I and my artist friends would smoke on a regular day was two to three cigs PER DAY, sharing packs as a group. Furthermore, these were those heavy tar "all natural" American Spirits. Not the lights, the yellow ones but the black ones or dark greens. I get cravings now and then.
Vaping contributes well to developing discipline- if you have the mindset to quit- to reduce and eventually cease smoking altogether.
no I’m not, I drink maybe twice a month.
Fuck off, I was just at a Scotch party last night, it was pretty fun. Everyone was responsible and no one got to drunk.
By having people drink responsibly.
Anything that’s fun is technically an "opiate of the masses.” Being class consciousness doesn’t mean you can’t also do what you can to enjoy life.
This is the dumbest shit I’ve heard.
Most CPRF members will disagree with you.
Most of the people who patriced in probation were relatively well off. The reason probation was a failure is the same reason why some many people smoke weed today. They just like doing it.
Vape is a fucking failure. All it did was get a bunch of burger teens to use tobacco. That’s it.
t. man alienated from society thanks to the opium of capitalism: alcohol
I would never get laid if it wasn't for booze.
Also it pre-dates capitalism by a shitload, its abuse is a symptom of alienation not a cause. Get fucking dialectical, abuse would go way the fuck down if people did not need a cheap agent to ease stress.
t. weird nigga
Just make all drugs legal. Noone is gonna drink a shitty downer, when they got access to uppers like meth that make you way more euphoric and increase cognitive ability and awareness instead of decreasing it. Drugs that work well are just criminalized cause the pharma industry wants profits and anti street drug campaigns are just porky propaganda.
I smoke at least 20 a day, but I also roll my own tobacco. When I used to do a lot of Speed & MDMA it wasn't uncommon for me to go through 3 packs of cigarettes on a night out, but I didn't smoke all of them myself, I have a habit of chain smoking with whoever I'm hanging around with at that moment. I actually don't do any drugs at all now; smoked weed last over a year ago and haven't drank any alcohol or done any harder stuff like psychs or anything in 2 or 3 years. I've even recently been giving up Caffeine. I've never had any addiction problems with any drugs I've taken recreationally but Nicotine is a bitch to quit, smoking is genuinely fucking awful. I've heard that there is a course of medication you can take that makes you physically sick when you smoke to assist with quitting wholesale, I might try that.
I would never drink at all if I had reliable access to weed.
why did the ussr have such an alcoholism problem?
Drugs should be decriminalized and addicts given mandatory treatment until they are better, not punishment. Drug-dealers though should be given a bullet to the head
You have to make it so that being alive doesn't suck ass.
Maybe get people some hobbies or something.
it was filled with russians
If you take a suicidal man off the rooftop he'll buy a gun and delete the roof of his mouth. If you give a suicidal man Zoloft and help him develop positive thought processes in place of the self-destructive ones that led him there he'll turn his life around.
Same fix here. You remove the alcohol, people start shooting up meth. You remove the Darwinian capitalism that brought us to this point, people won't try to destroy themselves with their coping mechanisms. If you put a band-aid on the issue the wound festers, but if you fix the problem the symptoms go away on their own.
That guy in your image is so hawt Here what I will do to this cute boi I hate him, I hate him, I hate him I want to wait for him in some back alley his little twink ass wiggling with anticipation of what to come my giant member (20 inches long) is ripping thoruhg my clothes (I have to attach him to my abs) then the fun begins
his eyes wide in shock my giant member and balls thrusting in his general direction the movement of my dick and my body as counterweight forming a vaccuum him trapped inside of it and turned into mush then inserted into my BBC
My BBC being used like a vaccuum cleaner taking up all importnat nutrients from his body like brain or skull fragments or even his hair
now his putrid bodymass trapped in my acid balls slowly being digested until he is gone
i'm glad you could share this with us
can we legalize weed tho?
Most dealers are just serious addicts who use dealing as a way to support their heavy use though. Some are in it solely for the money, and those guys are certainly shit if they're selling hard drugs.
Move to Canada, we just legalised it for normies last year. I'm a medicinal user since 2007, so not an issue for me, also Cannabis is a plant not a drug…
Is this the same juche poster that agued videogames and possibly art is counter revolutionary?
Not everyone handles late stage capitalism by being a no fun nerd.
Something is not good or socially desirable simply because one section of the population (or even a majority) may think it is “fun” (a subjective word). You know what is not subjective — the facts on the dangers of the poison called alcohol that I posted in the OP. You have been conditioned from birth to think that certain vices like poisoning yourself with alcohol and mass-produced entertainment are “fun”.
Dealers are porky who kill and poison for profit. It has nothing to do with their addiction. Kill ‘em
As with most things in life, the matter of 'alcohol' is not black and white.
Do you mean beer? Because that's been around for fucking thousands of years and is tied in with both the agricultural revolution and the development of societies, not to mention a fucking good time.
Or do you mean spirits? Distilled alcohol is, in my opinion, the problem as it is basically the crack cocaine of drinks. Still, it seems like a pretty stupid fucking idea to ban something that contributes to enjoyment, camaraderie and personal well being (in moderation).
Before it was 'industrialized' by Bavarian proto-capitalists in the 1500s, brewing was a cottage industry and was something that was part of the house work, which is why you'll hear liberal faggots go on about "the first brewers were women", which is partly true. What you see today on the shelves of your grocery etc is a hyper-real commodified 'product' that is stripped of any nutritional qualities via filtration where the living yeast is removed from suspension and you're left with something that gets you drunk and has carbs in it. This filtration is done because it increases shelf life and therefore the ability to sell it far & wide, which flies in the face of the production methods of the past.
There's a reason that EVERY society on this earth has its own traditional alcohol (sans the Arabs because haram); read about palm wine in SE Asia, pulque and chicha in South/Central America, heather mead in Scotland, Kvass in Russia, Sahti in Finland and then literally fucking kill yourself because you're misinformed.
This teetotaller shit is what got us prohibition in the US and when that was repealed we got railroaded into a three-tier production/distribution/retail system for making/selling beer, which only serves the international capitalists as they are deft at controlling the system.
t. commercial brewer
how old are you? how often do you drink & what is it that you drink?
My org is a collective
Your outlook is juvenile and you will have a difficult time pulling off a teetotaller ban of alcohol in the west.
I could be convinced to agree on a ban on spirits, but never for beer. They are two different things entirely.
Any group of people or individual selling poison to make a buck is a class-enemy. You’re befuddling the minds of the proletariat and allowing them to dull their pains and hide from reality
this is where the teetotaller ideological blindness comes into play - it's never nuanced, it's just full-on-ban
so you're saying i'm befuddling the minds of the proletariat and selling "poison", but in reality the truth is that i'm introducing people to marxist ideas and tacking a crack at an "alternative" business model because i truly believe in it, all while enjoying the camaraderie and connection to other working class people made possible by a few beers shared between us
It is absolutely clear that your take on what social, moderate, adult drinking is when you say shit like "befuddling the minds" and "dull their pains and hide from reality" - you are a fucking neckbeard-esque teetotaller with a lot of projection going on in your responses
There is certainly the occasional person who drinks too much, but even then they are nowhere near this false image you're trying really hard to portray who is sitting, sad and depressed in the corner sucking down gin and rotting their brain and bodies to numb the pain of alienation.
Know what helps with alienation? Having a few beers with comrades and talking about politics, plans, goals and hobbies, family and community.
Shit, even Best Korea had a beer fest up until recently…
The problem is all of this banning shit, destroying "reactionary" culture and practices and cultural revolution n' shit is that they won't come until way later, and most of them will probably not leave, videogames, porn, addictions will all exist in socialism for a while, if not forever.
if responsible social beer consumption eventually withers away (like the state) under regional or global communism, so be it, but it will never come as a direct, immediate mandate under a newly established socialist regime
In all honestly you’re not even worth responding to for a variety of reasons because it is clear that you have not even read my OP, otherwise you wouldn’t be talking complete bans and probibition. You are an alcohol-shill and class-enemy who makes appeals to tradition (>>2835073) to justify your heinous activities, all while yelling about “neckbeards” and “projection”. Are the facts in my OP also procured by neckbeards? No, by professional studies. You’re just a liberal, plain and simple. You simply don’t care that alcohol is a poison — just like how people in the eugenics thread yesterday are horrified at the so-called violations of le “individual rights” involved with extirpating the weeds from the garden involved in creating better, more healthy human beings.
Even Dear Leader was down with the Juche-Juice man, get with the program
While this saddens me, it is indeed confirmation that the Kim dynasty has unfortunately forsaken Juche and fallen deep into reactionary ideals. Never did I think the Glorious Leader himself would fall to brain-melting alcoholism.
If Germans get to have a succesful socialist revolution sometime, then I may consider beer… but come on lads, if the coming revolution should be absent of vodka or rum, I won´t take part in it jajaja
oh i'm sorry, i bypassed specific critique of your OP because it was ridiculous
let's do it then: what makes alcohol, and in my argument beer specifically, the greatest of all 'opiates'? this is an opinion
based on liquor, which i will grant you the concession again that it is not healthy or generally a positive contribution to society
this is an infrastructure problem
i've listed many redeemable qualities that you won't address because it's taxing and takes away from your worldview
Also have you ever met a trade union laborer? This disconnection to reality alludes to some agenda you're pushing.
curtailment of alcoholism is a good thing, if you're able to separate casual moderate drinking (some beers) from degenerate gin mill patrons which i believe you might need some practice with
your masturbation fantasy
I'll say this - I believe that most of what you're upset about is a direct result of beer being sold as a commodity with no real connection to what it was, a true third order simulacrum of the real article. The marketing campaigns that come from global beer manufacturers have turned beer into a lifestyle choice and this, combined with the ills of this era of capitalism we find ourselves into, adds to the careless overindulgence of a percentage of the population.
opium is the opium of the masses, also the masses are the opium of the masses, got me?
I´ll add cigars there too just because of those fabulous guys there in that ´photo :)
How many dealers do you know, and frequently interact with? Because it seems to me that you really haven't talked to many dealers or former dealers. The people you describe are certainly out there, but they tend to be higher up in the distribution chain. Dealers certainly tend to be somewhat reactionary, but so are a significant portion of the population.
But yeah, people cutting heroin with fentanyl and that type of shit definitely deserve a bullet to the brain.
Yes poor uneducated african americans should rather starve than become drug dealers, cause it's the only moral thing to do.
Are you an anglo, OP? North Koreans drink alcohol and they have no issues.
temperance will win nobody to your side no matter right or left. you will at least get a bunch of reactionary moms who will nag people into suicide.