I read leftist theory and I find myself agreeing with tons of it, but thing I don't like are the leftists, if you can understand what im saying.
On a personal level, a majority of leftists I've interacted with are contemptible individuals, that piss me off. Like they open their mouths and say something, and I begin to understand why retards want to throw them out of helicopters. I think it's the tone of the way they speak, the ressentiment their voice gets me heated. Here's this important issue we're trying to solve, the question of wage labor and exploitation, and there you being really annoying and bitchy, like a shrill old woman.
Sorry of this is a dear diary post, I don't know where else to put this without getting banned instantly for being "mean to your fellow comrades". I just need to vent. I see this thing, that's causing misery and suffering, and then the people who have the solution are surrounded by gatekeepers that through their retardation keep good people away.
There's a story in one thread i don't remember about how it only took some really nice and gentle leftists to convert an user into communism. You are gonna have to find nice people elsewhere tho, fuckface
(still me) btw if you disagree with the entire left you could also become a suicidal revolutionary
Maybe you should stop being so sensitive and try to focus on what people are saying and not how they say it.
I just, nod and smile then challenge them from a strict dialectical and historical materialist perspective while thinking about gulags
You gotta be careful with the selfstyled ones though
Unions are generally a good
I know what you're talking about, and the solution is to stop hanging around liberals.
Also I don't know if you've been around conservative Republicans – like actual activists and members of the party – if you're in the United States but they're the fucking worst. Around where I live they're either ancient and decrepit Holden Bloodfeasts with their purple-haired wives or sniveling little church brats. All of them. Liberals are also annoying and horrible. The way they talk about politics is like that John Oliver guy.
I dunno. A lot of communist women I've met around my neck of the woods have been Mexican-American versions of this: youtu.be/OtYTSx32hOY
Those are faggots as well, but not quite as insufferable as the idpol type. You all will go to the wall when the revolution begins.
Okay, I think I've detected the issue here:
Then go back and watch that clip from Babylon Berlin from here
In that show, the communists are accusing the police of murdering women, covering up the crime and blaming the communists. And the woman is spitting and sounds deranged, but in actual fact the police did murder those women and blame the communists and she has every right to be pissed off about it. In retrospect, watching the show, the only ones who have a reasonable view of the insane society they're living in are the commies. The cops in that scene look down at the protest and go "pfft" despite the fact that they're the murderers.
Probably a more relevant IRL example (note the Stokely Carmichael reference):
More to the point, the question of overthrowing capitalism isn't like sitting around over glasses of wine and musing about the stock market. Or "let's get together and reasonably solve it." These are combat / agitation / struggle organizations aimed at building power and using it.
It's funny you posted this, because this is one of things that set me off. That bald bearded dude gets under my fucking skin even though everything he says is correct.
well then don't hang out with anyone and die writing a really good development of marxist theory so everyone remembers you as the guy that didn't like anyone but did good thing
You're telling you watched that clip and didn't roll your eyes? I don't believe you.
Then maybe this stuff isn't for me
because you find some people cringy and annoying? don't give up man, you will find people like you at some point, just keep informing yourself on foundational works, go to /marx/ and have conversations with people who have read a fuckton of work.
What about this is "cringy"? Cause he's bald and has a beard?
Im not entirely sure tbh. Maybe it's my conservative upbringing and priors that makes me cringe at this type of indignation.
passionate about the world's injustices
I think there's a distinction to made between two types of leftists. People who are leftists for self-interested reasons and people who are leftists because of ressentiment. The latter kind is what this dude embodies.
That's probably true.
I ultimately think you're making mountains out of anthills because while you must rationally admit to the strengths of left-wing critique and theory, your (bourgeois) class interest makes you want some kind of out, so you choose something as silly as "these people believe things too much".
My advice is to start looking at people like that as if you were a sociologist. Marxists generally don't think people are calmly reasoned into into becoming Marxists – they have an almost psychotic mental break from capitalist society and bourgeois norms that occurs in the process of struggle against it in some fashion or another:
It's not that they are passionate about what they believe that bothers me, it's the underlying reason for their beliefs.
So you know what the believe? do you seriously think watching a single video is enough to say the entire left is full of opportunists (self-interested, which doesn't seem bad considering who the fuck doesn't want a better life) or resentful (it's just a phase, you are just angry life wasn't good to you so you want a system that puts you in the same level as everyone else)
I think I get where he's coming from because I used to feel the same way. I think deep down the visceral reaction to left-wing agitators comes from a sense that they're disrupting the social order and that's embarrassing, even if you don't consciously realize it. It seems like flipping the fuck out or raging against the machine. Again think back to that police officer in that scene quietly going "pfft" when the communist speaker goes "workers were shot down like dogs!" (In fact, they were, and that officer knows it.) It's embarrassing. Anyways, I don't think you can reason someone out of this position.
I liken it to that Monty Python scene where King Arthur meets the anarcho-syndicalist who is trying to agitate the other peasants, and one goes "oh, there you go again with anarcho this and that!" And he goes "it's true!" King Arthur meanwhile can't argue with him so he starts going "shut up, you filthy peasant!" and begins kicking him (or like imagine helicopters here) Then the anarcho-syndicalist goes "see the violence inherent in the system!"
This position is retarded because their positions are justified, they are angry, so what? yeah they need to chill the fuck out to be taken seriously but just get over it (to OP) and join what you think is the best side.
i'm glad this thread finally devolved into "make fun of the alt-right/far left", can't wait for cringy rightwingers photos to be posted, then cringy leftists, then cringy rightwingers again and so on
Oh I agree.
In my mind, liberals are extremely lame at demonstrations. They just hold signs and stand there or give tepid speeches while the left groups show up with bullhorns, drums, flags and move as an organized bloc.
I became really aware of this recently and also how the liberal fetishism of the "facts" does not place the same weight on information and standards of proof, but nevertheless like to pretend (or actually believe, I can never tell) that they are being fair and scientific. So you'll get guys who, in the same breath, will gobble up propaganda about the evil dictator Nicolas Maduro starving his people, but will then sandbag you for three hours on whether or not that CIA jabroni is actually a foreign puppet, what is a puppet, and can we ever really be sure of the meaning of the word 'intervention'?
I actually think that the worst fucking thing in internet debates is the guys who constantly ask you for citations, because in my experience it is always done not in a good faith effort to acquire information and process differing viewpoints, but it is to sandbag the discussion and put unwanted information up against impossible standards of proof. Yes, there is not going to be any mention of Guaidò being a puppet in respected media publications, does that mean that one can not infer that from his actions, the words of his supporters, what is happening in the country and so on?
I not saying being self interested is bad, that's the position I hold to be correct. Resentful leftism is the thing I hate. For a lot of people it's not just phase it's their entire identity.
Okay, then go to self interested side.
That's what I tried to do, but quickly you begin to realize that the vast majority of leftists, especially the online ones, are of the second type, and it makes me fucking angry that weak retards are gatekeeping the means of liberating the working class with a bunch of idpol nonsense. You know this as well as I do, people like us, leftists who see past the liberal elements that hold back a workers movement from forming are in the minority.
Of course, this entire board mostly rejects idpol, i think even people who "support" it here do it so unconsciously. I mean i really don't know what to tell you anymore, what are you going to do now? did you visit /marx/?
My point is that were in the minority and it's extremely blackpilling.
Like I said im a former conservative, so I have connections in those groups through twitter and what not. This Andrew Yang phenomenon has been extremely helpful for opening up right wingers to leftist economics so im doing nothing but arguing with the right wingers who are sticking with the old free market talking points and attempting to push those who have embraced an anti-capitalist critique even further to the left.
Im sort of a spy for socialism right now lol.
Im actually relatively well read on Marx, i've written a few papers on him for school actually.
Great, i would say your crusade on Zig Forums is more useful than spending time here, there are effort posts every now and then, avoid the trash thread and beware of mods.
Assuming that is what they think the way you claim to see, as long as they are correct then so the fuck what? You cannot run a revolution on self-interest alone, resentment has its own appeal too
Don't get me wrong, I'm not from ANTI GLASSES GANG but I think this sort of behaviour is quite normal for college students and other types of young "intellectuals". I really don't want to generalize, but this is my personal experience these people.
I'm not him, but I think resentment, separate from mere hatred, arises from a sense of personal aggrievement rather than a rational parsing of the world. Centering one's views around resentment results in moralists who carp about "justice" without any understanding of socialism except as a means to realize the "justice" of unleashing their resentments rather than socialism. Or, perhaps better said, "socialism," "Marxism," and "communism" are all mere vehicles for resentment, for someone with such a mindset.
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