Are sports bourgeois?

Zachary Sanders
Zachary Sanders

They siphon off massive amount of money that could be invested into technology and imrpoving the lives of the proletariat
Sportsmen don't do labor thats useful in any capacity, either to culture, tech, or economy
Sports are used by the bourgeoisie to distract the working class from their hardships and members of it are vulnerable to collecting huge amounts of useless information regarding sports(for example: number of passes by *insert nigerian here* in Arsenal Juventus Bayern vs Real Milan) instead of pursuing knowledge of ideology

Its really terrible how socialist countries were obsessed in the useless endevour of sports.

But muh new socialist man
But muh physique

Exercise and healthy lifestyle can be encouraged without having to pour in billions in organized sports teams filled by millionaires that dont contribute anything to the working class's wellbeing.

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Chase Butler
Chase Butler

t. /pol/yp trying to start useless discussion

Blake Cruz
Blake Cruz

Pol is obsessed with sports though

William Roberts
William Roberts

exactly

Isaac Lee
Isaac Lee

Pol supports sports as they believe its an effort to show the superior physique of the aryan man and because they associate it with masculinity.

Joshua Diaz
Joshua Diaz

t. butthurt liberal

Chase Sanders
Chase Sanders

i love sports and they can be done without big ass stadiums and teaching people to not be angry when their team loses end of the discussion

Jason Bailey
Jason Bailey

Stadiums are only one aspect. An ideal socialist state would pay olympic athletes poorly and not invest much in expensive sports equipment because these athletes don't contribute to the economy.Also sports schools should get minimal funding too.

Henry Kelly
Henry Kelly

Watching sports? Nah. That's a past-time for all classes. But sponsoring them and owning sports teams is certainly bourgeois.

Ryder Hernandez
Ryder Hernandez

Seems reasonable considering how overly glorified sports are as a means of bread and circuses. Don't remove them, but tone down their importance.

Aiden Ward
Aiden Ward

If people purchase the produced commodity, then the labour that went into its production is useful.
A commodity is, in the first place, an object outside us, a thing that by its properties satisfies human wants of some sort or another. The nature of such wants, whether, for instance, they spring from the stomach or from fancy, makes no difference. Neither are we here concerned to know how the object satisfies these wants, whether directly as means of subsistence, or indirectly as means of production.

Carson Rogers
Carson Rogers

sports are the most marxist activity since you use your very materialist body to hit things into material objects and engage in your material world

Michael Rodriguez
Michael Rodriguez

No

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Christopher Jackson
Christopher Jackson

Today I found out t.ankies don't believe the USSR was an ideal socialist state, what sort of loopy land have I entered?

Jace Cruz
Jace Cruz

This is pure ideology.

1.Athletes' labour has no material value
2. Sports infrastructure doesn't give any tangible technological or material resource returns
3. Material going to pamper athletes is wasted because it should contribute to socialist science, housing, industry, etc.

Chase Adams
Chase Adams

just a joke m8, it's like me saying this is the best album cuz it says material in the title

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Ethan Wright
Ethan Wright

1.Soviet obsession and extreme investment is sports went in overdrive in the cold war during the rule of liberal revisionists
2. Most ☭TANKIE☭s never claim the USSR was ideal.
3.You're a filthy liberal that creates a strawman.

Christopher Lewis
Christopher Lewis

No>>2836603
Stfu up nigger, soviets clearly were never extremely obssesed with sports, as shown by their clearly bigger military and space exploration budgets, so don't even bring that shit up.

Josiah Walker
Josiah Walker

soviets clearly were never extremely obssesed with sports, as shown by their clearly bigger military and space exploration budgets
Do you not understand that sports and the military/space programs require funding of completely different dimensions? Your logic is retarded.

Colton Turner
Colton Turner

The activities themselves are not.
Their nature under capitalism definitely is.
Mark Fisher wrote some interesting stuff about English football under late social democracy and emergent neoliberalism.

The Olympics itself used to have the amateurism rule where Olympians weren't allowed to be paid for their sportsmanship iirc. Like one guy was disqualified because he was paid to play Basketball, even though he was in a completely different Olympic sport.

The soviets were definitely obsessed with sports, but I dare raise another question here: Were they the ultimate materialists in doping their athletes to fuck? Is the idea of competing without the advantages that science and technology afford a spook? Or were they playing to the spectacle of the event rather than mastering it for the promotion of socialism?

Ryan Jones
Ryan Jones

Ok?? Your point?

Joshua Gomez
Joshua Gomez

My point is you have no point.

Noah Nguyen
Noah Nguyen

Lmao ok nigger

Elijah Nguyen
Elijah Nguyen

STADIUMS
ARE
BOURGEOIS
MADE BY THE LIBYAN JAMAHIRIYA GANG

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Blake Williams
Blake Williams

No
Sports, like games and other recreational activities are what society makes of them.
Naturally in in a bourgeois society sports are a lucrative business but also a tool to divide and distract workers.
On the flipside sports can also be a very proletariat thing since most of the viewers are proles and the tipical sports fan stereotype is prole. Also most of the games can be played casually among friends and neighbors in a rather comunistic activity (Burger sports save for basketball are reactionary since they require autistic fields and tons of expensive equipment). Remember how Tatcher mother of neoliberalism was highly repressive of football?

Benjamin Cox
Benjamin Cox

Professional sports and sports as part of the culture industry are indeed a toxic product of capitalism. But physical culture is a tenet of socialism.

Camden Powell
Camden Powell

Socialism is supposed to celebrate and facilitate the greatest possible exercise of human ability and achievement. Imo socialism should strive to excel in all areas, including athletics. The Soviet investment in this area was based.

Xavier Russell
Xavier Russell

Modern sports ball is pretty gay but bodybuilding and hand to hand combat should be encouraged

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Jace Rodriguez
Jace Rodriguez

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Luke Hall
Luke Hall

they are now but they used to be fine. better to have communal entertainment than individual anyways

James Morgan
James Morgan

Body building is the most useless shit anyone can ever do.

Jack Barnes
Jack Barnes

Can anyone explain this Gadaffi stadiums meme?

Jordan Rodriguez
Jordan Rodriguez

And hand to hand combat is only useful in arranged settings like a street fight or riot brawl where weapons aren't allowed because "that's going too far". What use is kick boxing and body building to a revolutionary?

Julian Scott
Julian Scott

What use is kick boxing and body building to a revolutionary?
what does it matter after established socialism?

Noah Cox
Noah Cox

Body building is the most useless shit anyone can ever do.

.t a fat person

Camden Evans
Camden Evans

Then what's the point of this thread?
Nod an argumend

Sebastian Jackson
Sebastian Jackson

Gaddafi ranted about stadiums in the Green Book IIRC.

Caleb Brooks
Caleb Brooks

Then what's the point of this thread?
Sports in a Socialist country

Camden Torres
Camden Torres

Nod an argumend
I wasn't replying to an argument either fatty

Liam Sanchez
Liam Sanchez

Okay then, why should we encourage bodybuilding and HTH combat in a socialist society?
That's not surprising, people who worship aesthetics rather than usefulness tend to not rely on le facts and logic.

Ryan Miller
Ryan Miller

The same holds true of the crowds who, because of ignorance,
fail to practise sport by and for themselves. They are fooled
by monopolistic instruments which endeavour to stupefy them
and divert them to indulging in laughter and applause instead.
Sport, as a social activity, must be for the masses, just as power,
wealth and arms should be in the hands of the people.
Public sport is for all the masses. It is right of all people for
their health and recreational benefit. It is mere stupidity to leave its benefits to certain individuals and teams who monopolize
these while the masses provide the facilities and pay the ex-
penses for the establishment of public sports. The thousands
who crowd stadiums to view, applaud and laugh are foolish
people who have failed to carry out the activity themselves.
They line up lethargically in the stands of the sports grounds,
and applaud those heroes who wrest from them the initiative,
dominate the field and control the sport and, in so doing, ex-
ploit the facilities that the masses provide. Originally, the public
grandstands were designed to demarcate the masses from the
playing fields and grounds; to prevent the masses from having
access to the playing fields. When the masses march and play
sport in the centre of playing fields and open spaces, stadiums
will be vacant and become redundant. This will take place when
the masses become aware of the fact; that sport is a public activ-
ity which must be practised rather than watched. This is more
reasonable as an alternative than the present costum of a help-
less apathetic majority that merely watches.
Sport is like praying, eating, and the feelings of coolness and
warmth. It is unlikely that crowds will enter a restaurant just
to look at a person or a group of people eat. It is also unlikely
that they will let a person or a group or people enjoy warmth or
ventilation on their behalf. It is equally illogical for the society
to allow an individual or a team to monopolize sports while the
society as a whole pays the costs of such a monopoly for the
exclusive benefit of one person or team. In the same way, people
should not allow an individual or a group, whether it is a party,
class, sect, tribe or parliament, to replace them in deciding their
destiny and in defining their needs.

Jaxon Hughes
Jaxon Hughes

Okay then, why should we encourage bodybuilding and HTH combat in a socialist society?

Striving for aesthetics and beauty is a noble goal that all cultures respect

Jaxson Price
Jaxson Price

Oops I misread, you weren't replying to an argument, you were replying to a critique of your unfounded statement, which requires an argument

Caleb Johnson
Caleb Johnson

staying fit is good and i guess promoting a nice body figure is ideal but aesthetics and "beauty" are subjective.

Henry Watson
Henry Watson

Striving for aesthetics and beauty is a noble goal that all cultures respect
Be honest, you used to be a fascist, right?

Cooper Bailey
Cooper Bailey

Be honest, you used to be a fascist, right?
<body building is fascist

Be honest, you used to be a liberal, right?

Gavin Howard
Gavin Howard

staying fit is good and i guess promoting a nice body figure is ideal but aesthetics and "beauty" are subjective.

Not in terms of the human body

Chase Phillips
Chase Phillips

not an argument

Jonathan Gonzalez
Jonathan Gonzalez

is it tho

Carter Williams
Carter Williams

spooked weirdo
read a book (not the fucking greeks)

Thomas Gutierrez
Thomas Gutierrez

spook
read a book

its like you can only communicate in memes

Matthew Robinson
Matthew Robinson

at least my memes belong to the 21st century, virgin.

Josiah Brown
Josiah Brown

So that's a yes?

Henry Thompson
Henry Thompson

not him but an special focus on aesthetics and beauty is indeed very fashy, you could simply stay healthy by doing exercise every now and then and eat good food, which is actually useful compared to beauty and aesthetics.

Julian Murphy
Julian Murphy

today i learned that the Andamanese do it for the aesthetic

Liam Anderson
Liam Anderson

/liberalpol/index.html

Isaiah Gonzalez
Isaiah Gonzalez

not him but an special focus on aesthetics and beauty is indeed very fashy, you could simply stay healthy by doing exercise every now and then and eat good food, which is actually useful compared to beauty and aesthetics.

that is a component to having an aesthetic body

Eli Martinez
Eli Martinez

it can lead to them, i guess as long as you don't kill the people who don't look aesthetic when they are fit and healthy everything is ok mane

Dominic Thomas
Dominic Thomas

Body building is the most useless shit anyone can ever do.
Get in the fuggen gym nerd

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Mason Cox
Mason Cox

penises are bourgeois, tranny rights NAOW!

Ian Hall
Ian Hall

Tell me faggot, what use is bodybuilding?

Cameron Foster
Cameron Foster

t. samenigger who did the two tranny threads

Nolan Phillips
Nolan Phillips

Phil Greaves is that you?

Isaac Bailey
Isaac Bailey

Lol, as opposed to the literal FBI honeypot and 20 generals that hideous freak leaves unanchored every time he logs on?

Cooper Anderson
Cooper Anderson

rent free

Hunter Murphy
Hunter Murphy

Are videogames and movies bourgeois?

Jacob Wilson
Jacob Wilson

What use is playing games or reading an entertaining book or becoming skilled in certain art or engaging in a hunting trip? Socialism give us the ability to improve ourselves and engage in such activities of leisure. To become the complete and absolute pinnacle of our possible potential selfs.
“Young people, particularly, need the joy and force of life. Healthy sport, swimming, racing, walking, bodily exercises of every kind, and many-sided intellectual interests. Learning, studying, inquiry, as far as possible in common. That will give young people more than eternal theories and discussions about sexual problems and the so-called ‘living to the full’. Healthy bodies, healthy minds I Neither monk nor Don Juan, nor the intermediate attitude of the German philistines. You know, young comrade –– ? A splendid boy, and highly talented. And yet I fear that nothing good will come out of him. He reels and staggers from one love affair to the next. That won’t do for the political struggle, for the revolution. And I wouldn’t bet on the reliability, the endurance in struggle of those women who confuse their personal romances with politics. Nor on the men who run petticoat and get entrapped by every young woman. That does not square with the revolution. - Lenin

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Michael Allen
Michael Allen

Healthy exercise=/=body building.
I don't give a fuck if someone wants to buff himself up because of his insecurities. If it helps him, then sure, go ahead. Just don't pretend there's anything inherently positive about it.

Matthew Perry
Matthew Perry

amazing future of not paying rent

Leo Brown
Leo Brown

insecurities
I don't say this often, but you may be actually projecting here. Just because someone wants to improve themselves in an area doesn't automatically make them insecure, it just means they wish to improve or perfect themselves in an area.

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Levi Baker
Levi Baker

gotta ask why they'd pick that area instead of something more useful or interesting
there are some legitimate reasons but nobody on this site is gonna meet them

Christopher Nelson
Christopher Nelson

Okay, and you say "improving", and I ask for the fifth time, WHAT IF THE BENEFIT OF BODYBUILDING?

Aiden Reed
Aiden Reed

why wouldn't you

Joseph Morgan
Joseph Morgan

Sports is the most collective thing ever. Builds up the Community.

Lenin said that even under Communism everyone wouldn't be in one giant nation so there's nothing wrong with competition.

Cooper Cruz
Cooper Cruz

Better bloodflow, less stress on heart, better protection of organs, stronger bones, more support on bones form muscles. You are asking "What is the benefit of an activity that makes the body healthier and can give a person more healthy years in their life? " and the answer is self evident.

Asher Myers
Asher Myers

Not him, but it is aesthetically pleasing. What's the benefit of being a chess master or baduk pro? Why can't we do something simply for the joy it brings us?

Colton Ross
Colton Ross

Body builders experience a variety of health issues that they wouldn't be experiencing if they were exercising for health reasons, not for aesthetics.
Not him, but it is aesthetically pleasing
Fag.
What's the benefit of being a chess master or baduk pro? Why can't we do something simply for the joy it brings us?
Never did I say you shouldn't do it if it brings you joy. I actually said
<I don't give a fuck if someone wants to buff himself up because of his insecurities. If it helps him, then sure, go ahead. Just don't pretend there's anything inherently positive about it.

Lincoln Myers
Lincoln Myers

it is aesthetically pleasing
subjective
What's the benefit of being a chess master or baduk pro
a reasonable question, but more immediately defensible on the grounds of being an intellectual pursuit.
it doesn't seem like a reasonable comparison. bodybuilding is specifically an aesthetic thing. it's not like weightlifting, or running, or whatever in general. being a chess master is more comparable to being able to lift a certain weight effortlessly, rather than pursuing a specific aesthetic preference. bodybuilding is more comparable to fashion than to competitive sport.

David Butler
David Butler

gotta ask why they'd pick that area instead of something more useful or interesting
legitimate
I have to ask you what makes something more "legitimate" in your eyes? A person could enjoy a game or a similar hobby and become extremely proficent in it, even though such things will never be of actual real life use besides sating his own desires and fulfilling his own sense personal fulfillment/enjoyment. There may also be others who appreciate such things and take personal enjoyment in their own appreciation of such things, maybe feeling inspired to do such things themselves. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "legitimate", because to say such things like bodybuilding is illegitimate would by extension make all other art forms and activities illegitimate.
Same "benefit" one gains from any other hobby, artform, or sport, with bodybuilding fulfilling all three. It is also a hobby and artform which keeps one in good health, in the same way dance is both an artform and benefical to ones health. Would you restict dance and gymnastics as well? No one in daily life "needs" to partake in either, but there are those who enjoy the activity of a tango or a properly executed flip.

Josiah Roberts
Josiah Roberts

rather than pursuing a specific aesthetic preference. bodybuilding is more comparable to fashion than to competitive sport.
But then what differentiates bodybuilding from an art? It is simply in this case that the artist has decided that their own body will be the canvas or clay upon which they form an aesthetic shape to their pleasing. And if there are those Connoisseurs who wish to judge such art, who are we to stop them? We hold art competitions, so why not those of the art of the body?

Elijah Morgan
Elijah Morgan

Okay so we agree, it's a useless hobby and there's no reason why we should be talking about it.

Jacob Gutierrez
Jacob Gutierrez

cuz the human body is stinky, like america after 911

Kayden Martin
Kayden Martin

youtube.com/watch?v=jTnOmruhRLc
Football sucks

Elijah Mitchell
Elijah Mitchell

Its a useless hobby and there's no reason why we should be talking about it.
I suppose all art is useless to you then by extension.

Anthony Cooper
Anthony Cooper

We hold art competitions, so why not those of the art of the body?
Because this is the sport thread

Adrian Nguyen
Adrian Nguyen

Because this is the sport thread
This conversation started after some user stated that bodybuilding was "the most useless shit anyone can ever do" in response to another user. I'll admit it was a sidetrack, but this discussion was primarily about the validity of bodybuilding. Also, the line between sport and art is admittedly pretty vauge. For example, dance and figure skating is considered a sport but at the same time it is clearly also an art.

Kevin Collins
Kevin Collins

The soviets were definitely obsessed with sports, but I dare raise another question here: Were they the ultimate materialists in doping their athletes to fuck?
What?

Austin Harris
Austin Harris

doping to FUCK, what part of that is not clear?

Michael Hall
Michael Hall

Dishonest. This started with a guy saying
Modern sports ball is pretty gay but bodybuilding and hand to hand combat should be encouraged

Evan Davis
Evan Davis

I was not talking to that guy though, I was talking to the user who said bodybuilding was useless. The discussion was about the validity of bodybuilding. If it was about the user who said bodybuilding should be encouraged, the discussion would have been about "Should bodybuilding be encouraged?". Instead this conversation was about "Is bodybuilding legitimate and can it be defined as "improving"?" The discussion I'm involved in started with the latter user of the two, not the former.

Gavin Reed
Gavin Reed

I am the guy.
the discussion would have been about "Should bodybuilding be encouraged?". Instead this conversation was about "Is bodybuilding legitimate and can it be defined as "improving"?"
These two are obviously very closely related. If something is an improvement then it should be encouraged. Body building has no benefits over proper exercise apart from some fascist faggots having something to gawk at. Is it "legitimate"? I have no idea what that means. It's useless.

Brandon Jones
Brandon Jones

It's not useless if someone get's some joy out of it.

Ryan Young
Ryan Young

Only pro-sports are.
Just like pro-gaming.

Grayson Fisher
Grayson Fisher

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Joseph Hill
Joseph Hill

No. Private ownership of sports teams and the exploitation of them for profit is bourgeois. The massive advertising and merchandising machines of the NFL, NBA, NHL, etc. are bourgeois.

Team sports predate capitalism and the bizarre complex of ownership and sponsorship that currently exists is only holding them back from being truly great.

I'm a pretty big hockey fan and the greatest hockey team of all time, CSKA Moscow, would not have existed without socialism.

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Joseph Robinson
Joseph Robinson

side-note:Gaming is way more bourgeois than sports will ever be.

Liam Sanders
Liam Sanders

Also this thread is stupid and I'm just shitposting at this point

Cooper Rivera
Cooper Rivera

People shouldn't do anything ever

Asher Collins
Asher Collins

if it feels good then it's useful
Guess strangling you is useful

Sebastian Rivera
Sebastian Rivera

So goods and services that exist purely for the enjoyment of people but are otherwise unnecessary for survival shouldn't exist?
Read Marx

Chase Perry
Chase Perry

No fun allowed, industry should only make housing, cars and thermonuclear bombs.

Hudson Campbell
Hudson Campbell

Never implied that.
Read Marx.

Zachary Parker
Zachary Parker

So explain how bodybuilding is "useless". A group of people decide for themselves that they wish to sculpt their bodies. They and others appreciate and admire the sport/art of bodybuilding. It fulfills a "use" to society by being an activity that satisfies the interests and tastes of individuals who enjoy it, as an art gallery or dance performance would to those who appreciate those things.

Tyler Robinson
Tyler Robinson

Don't you see the problem with proclaiming that ANYTHING that ANYONE thinks feels good is useful somehow? I can't think of any activity that couldn't be classified as "useful" by your logic.

Thomas Allen
Thomas Allen

In regards to society as a whole and in actual real life practice, something is only ever regarded as useful when a sizeable portion of people appreciate it to the point that it becomes accepted as a "normal" or generalized activity. Choking people is not accepted as useful, because society as a whole has very little appreciation for it. If tomorrow however society somehow gained some kind of perverse "appreciation" for it, it would then be deemed "useful" to it. A society that dislikes dances will find no use in dance performances, but of course a society that does appreciate such performances will find it useful. Same with sports, and with sport/arts like bodybuilding. This occurs regardless of our personal feelings on what should be seen as useful to society. I hate certain types of art and media, but if enough people find that art or media enjoyable to the point that it is accepted in society as an acceptable thing to enjoy, it becomes "useful" to that society. It's as simple as that.

Adam Allen
Adam Allen

Are sports bourgeois?
as a concept? no
is there a sports industry that makes money for the bourgeois? yes
also some sports are clearly designed for them. but sports as an activity is not inherently bourgeois, same applies to art, literature music, ect.

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