Red-Brown Alliance

How so?

The state exists as the sword and shield of corporate power. It exists solely to further capitalist influence and power. Trying to separate the two as distinct is nonsensical.

We win when you guys go home.
We can't go home. Noone who's not a WASP can.
Next thing that happens is a knock on the door.

you want to kill non-whites and other minorities

Moreso than neoliberalism diluting your movement to the point where it is effectively a fashion statement for teenagers?

Our movement was killed before neoliberalism was a thing. Crushing our movement was the pre-requisite for enacting neoliberalism, and you fascists helped them because muh glorious murica.

Yes.
Socialist revolutions have arisen in capitalism. None have in fascism. Fascism is the bigger threat and I'd side with any liberal before I'd side with a dirty fascist.

Currently, yes. However, that is not the fascist conception of the state. Under fascism, the state is the supreme power, capitalist power and interests do not factor into the decisions of the state. Fascism places heavier restrictions on capitalist power than nearly all other political ideologies.

I didn't say I was a Nat Soc, I'm not a racialist.

Besides, you know, getting rid of it whole sale. Reminder that letting capitalism persist, no matter how restricted you make the market, is asking for it to inevitably seep into the government and other services over time until it takes hold within them like a cancer. Though now cancer will near absolute power for the bourgeoisie to wield and utilize to their advantage. You either supersede capitalism, or suffer under it. There is no in between.

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This is like literally any relatively large group of people with extremely differing views that would kill us and repress us if they could (and we to them) if "we wunt tu jain forzes tu destroy da rich!", the answer is maybe.

Ah, I see you're using the 'it isn't leftist so it is fascist' definition of fascism. Fascism has never been a relevant political force in America.

Although Salazar Portugal wasn't truly fascist, it was very close and it was overthrown by many socialist elements during the Carnation Revolution.

this nigger

It hasn't, the largest two fascist movements were the Silver Shirts and the German American Bund, neither of which reached any relevance politically. The closest thing America ever had to a fascist was Huey Long. Fascism =/= racialism.

It doesn't place any meaningful restrictions. The state simply takes a controlling interest. Capitalists retain property rights and profits. The Fascist state destroys all of the enemies of Capital. Trade Unions, liberal reformers, Communist. The wars of expansion massively fuel the capitalist industry. Fascist states stop the proles from organizing with the ultimate idpol, ethnic nationalism. Fascism is the ultimate fusion of state and corporate power. Anyone who seeks to weaken the capitalist class cannot turn to Fascism by definition.

You want to strengthen the hierarchy is society, we wish for the opposite. At least in capitalist society you can get by if shrewd enough. Fascism would dismatle all rights and independence, all power of the individual.

It is non-negotiable. Fascist get the wall first.

Because when we become a threat they will side with you to the point of handing you their power

So are you just admitting at this point that the closest thing to fascism is just more a more adamant SocDem?

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kek

Not him. but actually read actual Marxists and ML's before posting stuff like this. You sound like a liberal when you state stuff like this.

GLR was a literal nazi

enlighten

People like Hoxha were closer to be fascists than neoliberals or what passes for a 'socialist' in America today. Fascism doesn't have capitalism, but corporatism as certain aspects of the means of production are nationalized, while some is kept private. Fascism is not any more friendly to the bourgeoisie than any leftist movement.

Ethnic nationalism isn't an intrinsic component of fascism, only of nat socialism. Corporate power is brought to be subservient to state power. All other social forces are brought under the power of the state. Capital no longer has power under fascism. Also, imperialism is also not always part of fascism. Unions or worker syndicates often gain more power under fascism depending on the variation.

Fashies and bougies get the wall first, end of history. It doesn't matter what your favorite branch of fascism or philo-fascism is. Mussolini or Codreanu, Degrelle or Niekisch, you get the wall. Period.

Then fuck you, any ML who doesn't want to dismantle hierarchy gets the wall too.

this is your brain on ideology

Stalinism and many, many other variants of Socialism did the exact same thing. I bet you're some sort of bougie anarchist.

That's literally the opposite of what is happening today in America lmao.

Long was called 'dictator of Louisiana' reason. Simply, throwing him into the category of SocDem is dishonest.

GLR was also an irrelevant clown who never had more than 50 followers.

No fuck you.
neoliberals will side with fascists 100% of the time when commies grow, that's how fascists get big anyway.

Most commies in America have more in common with neoliberals, they both have an internationalist outlook and share the exact same set of social values. The neoliberal system of today has a far easier time controlling radical left movements than it does radical right movements exactly because of that reason.

Many misguided instances of communism (poor interpretations of Marx and Stalin) did, but those have nothing to do in a socialist cause.

Lenin also was absolutely an authoritarian.

Lenin didn't like how much power Stalin was accumulating.

Well yeah, it was a threat to his own power and influence.

Well obviously, because Lenin wanted to remain in power.

Nationalists are neoliberals and neocons, not socdems. You clearly know nothing about French politics or even politics in general if you think reactionary right wing parties are going to allow the rate of profit to be slashed so poor people can live a decent life, regardless of what race they are

No, it's because he was fucking dying and didn't want to leave the country to a power-hungry maniac, who did a lot of good things.

Almost every Fascist state in practice incorporates ethnic hegemony to some degree. Same with imperialism. I'm not interested in the theories on paper from a Fascist recruiter. I admit that the state takes control but my argument is that it doesn't matter who is in charge because the Facist state acts in the interest of private corporate entities whether the corporate entities are directly demanding those actions to be carried out or not isn't important to me. Left wing unions are destroyed and replaced with state run versions that can't threaten capitalist control of the economy. Fascism keeps the capitalist class wrapped up and protected from the working class. It's undeniable.

Stalin was fucking based, eliminating political dissidents, submission to authority, forced labor camps, etc.. I would love to see a less lefty Stalin type figure emerge in modern society.

Stop. Stop using America as an example for world politics. This discussion will go even more nowhere then it already is.

See above

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/mar/11.htm
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/letters/75_03_18.htm
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1877/anti-duhring/ch08.htm
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch01.htm

Kys liberal

Actually read Lenin and Stalin. Read Marx as well while your at it.

Lenin actually favored Stalin over fucking Trotsky you retard. The letter has little to no backing to it what so ever.

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National Rally is closer to Keynesian liberalism than neoliberalism. Also, regardless of political parties, there's absolutely nationalist elements within the yellow vests. It's neither a right wing or left wing movement.

Just wanted to mention the purges weakened the red army and didn't even target people who would later contribute to the demise of the soviet union.

Good, Lenin was reasonable.

I'm an American though, and that's the context I'm discussing the idea in. Lenin was an authoritarian, but I'm not saying it is a problem. Stalin and Lenin were authoritarians and I respect them for it. Way better than the Trotskyite bullshit.

Fascism is capitalism in decay. YOU are the neo-liberal order when the contraindications of capitalism kick in the neo-liberals will use you against us the ones who actually fight to destroy the current order. Fascists would be 100% fine with Neo-liberalism if there was places where White people had no immigration even supportive if the cheap minerals were still coming out of Africa and the West was being Neo-imperlist non whites.

go read a fucking book or something

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Fascism is fundamentally opposed to neoliberalism because it is internationalist. Neoliberals are currently using leftists against fascists, not the other way around. Why do you think anarchists are getting little to no sentences while far right activists in America are getting locked up with no bail? You're conflating white nationalism and fascism. There's a lot of overlap, but they're not the same thing.

Hoxha fought fascism you imbecile

What's more likely according to your lizard brain, capitalism goes on forever, nearly collapsing every 10 years and never providing basic needs for everyone while constantly shifting investment into more labor intensive markets, or we haven't yet reached the end of history and there is actually going to be economic development beyond capitalism?
(you)

holy shit this nigger

because turning over a trashcan carries less jailtime than premeditated murder

Sounds like a Carl of Swidon fan complaining about muh freeze peach. What far right activists are getting locked up? How is that plight in any way comparable to capitalist undermining of Socialist states across the world?

Hoxha was an authoritarian nationalist. He fought fascism because it was coming in the form of an invading state. Hoxha isn't fascist, but he's close to one than any neoliberal.

Fascism is Capitalism

Did fascism end
Wage labor
Commodity production
Classses and therefore class rule
Privately owned means of production
Private property (not personal)
No to none of them? Well then it's still Capitalism and kicking Jews out of the system and banning d egenerate things doesn't change the overlall economic system.

Man for someone who hates Neoliberals you sure love to use their talking points.

Please stop defiling comrade Hoxha's name like that

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Reminder that not doing the purges would have led to a Hitler-esc situation with his generals questioning literally everything and focusing on non-critical objectives purely for the spectacle of it over the most needed critical ones (like fixing their oil problem). Not to say there wasn't damage, but that was a given. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

I dislike the use of the term "authoritarian" because literally every ideology that wants to accomplish anything whatsoever without being steamrolled is "authoritarian". Every relevant ideology that wants to survive utilizes organized violence and repression, hell even the CNT did so. Its a meme word that means nothing besides "I don't like this certain repression".

The term is used for good reason. All of the fascists of WW2 colluded with the bourgeoisie of both their own countries and abroad. The Nazi's quite literally privatized most of their industries. They PRESERVED capitalism during a time when it should have up and died, making way for a new system to supersede it as economic systems before. But no instead, like trying to preserve a rotting corpse by salting it and wrapping it in branches, they kept the underlying economic system. This time with adjustments that only went as far as benefiting a "few" industrial owning bourgeoisie. Fancy that. Mythological stagnation, that's all fascism is.

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This isn't even an argument for fascism even if it was accurate. Its just literally saying your not liked more so your ideology is correct.

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