Tfw you realize Syndicalism is the optimal way to achieve Communism

iww.org/history/myths/11

as someone who was always been in the lower left quadrant of those political graphs, this is probably why i've started creeping up the y axis.
as much as I want to believe in people, don't think the enemies would pass up the chance to stomp it out.

Terrible post, terrible understanding. You should read moar.

yeah. funny isn't it. no understanding of base and superstructure. you are closet idealists and believe, that superstructure before base like the bourgoise. 'first we have to change da thinkin of da people, than everything will be fine or become better and free stuff for all hur dur'

guess what, beeing educated doesn't mean shit. educated ppls are in every political spectrum

idpol, ancaps, adornites, facist; all oll them have false conciseness

first comes food, than morals -> B. Brecht

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That post is what Xexziy beleives

this

Aren't most MLs on board with syndicalism though? Why the petty sectarianism and insisting they're diametrically opposed?

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of course the error above can be extended to any number of non-DeLeonist groups who fetishise some particularity of class struggle and descend into sectarianism, the reason for which is simple: the main error of all revisionists is fundamentally the same, which is to say, breaking with dialectical materialism. the only "magic bullet" for socialist struggle is to broaden and deepen our struggle of dialectics as theory for our materialist practice.

No. Trade unions obviously existed in the USSR and whatnot, but the political and economic system wasn't built around them.

De Leon wasn't a "state syndicalist" though (not quite sure what that term is.)

He argued that the Socialist Labor Party existed to propagandize its beliefs and to win elections. Once it won a decisive victory at the ballot box, it would abolish the state and itself, allowing trade unions to take over the running of society. Due to the power of said trade unions, the capitalists would be unable to offer any real resistance.

Wtf, do you think all anarchists are neocon caricatures?

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Since we all know reformism is useless we can all collectively (even the most autistic sectarian) say "fuck this noise"

The IWW isn't anarchist but I know for a fact committees are structured to maximize efficiency.
my post above

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You don't need centralization to protect you and thinking you need it because of "chaotic human nature" is pretty idiotic while being a gommunist. ML parties are still rad tho man.

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Is there any truth to Lenin being a "fan" of De Leon? I know he talks quite positively of him in LWC (or at least I remember he did, at some point).

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De Leon opposed opportunism in the Second International, which drew Lenin's admiration, but the latter was no "Deleonist."

As Lenin wrote in 1915, "We always quote letters from Marx & Engels (especially to Sorge, active member of American socialist movement), where both condemn the sectarian character of the S.L.P."

There's a book about De Leon from a ML perspective that I scanned a while back. Chapter XVIII deals with Lenin's views of De Leon: archive.org/details/LifeTimesDanielDeLeon/page/n93

Ah I never meant to imply that at all, just that Lenin admired the guy, as you said. Thanks for the link.

Internationalist movements aim to radicalize workers abroad as well and hurt unnecessary production so the workers have an advantage when facing a capitalist power.
The conditions weren't quite right yet for a more international revolution in neighboring countries, not to mention based Stalin cutting off funding to not antagonize other countries/being sectarian and not training anarchists and being forced to defend the Soviet Union.

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when you disrupt production in the middle of a war to own the ☭TANKIE☭s epic style

I didn't say that and they were definitely in the wrong for still going through with it

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when people misrepresent your ideologies you should call them out on it. Don't be such a snowflake about it

Revolutionary Catalonia wasn't perfect Anarchism. But it was perfect Syndicalism

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thank u basd sovets for protegting proberdy rites :DDD
t. kulak

I do agree though. We should use capitalist who are good in organizing

Obviously. That's just a means of pragmatically pushing them into it though.

Also I strongly wonder what "production" is being discussed here. From the amount of blatant bias this text has I wouldn't be surprised if they would count disrupting fascist held factories as "disrupting production mid-war"

Yeah there is alot of bias. But I accept it. The CNT-FAI did some pretty autistic things. Like not following military obedience.

Syndicalism's strength was its ability to take advantage of an already existing and quickly radicalizing labour movement in conditions that couldn't be handwaved away. Its advantages just do not exist in the vast majority of the developed world anymore, where most unions either practically do not exist or are castrated by legislation and work for collaboration between worker and proprietor.

A syndicalist movement would effectively have to rebuild the trade union movement, repeal anti-organization legislation, radicalize said labour movement, ensure it has support of a majority or significant minority of the population, and get enough support among the military and police so that the general strike would not just result in massacres until people are made to work again. All while avoiding parliament and parties, which the first two would be extremely difficult to achieve without.

Bangladesh has a huge Syndicate. It's anarcho syndicalist I believe. But true unionism will have to make a comeback. It made a revival in Mexico with the strike

You can't organize a single city district properly, let alone defend a whole country, ffs.
davidharvey.org/2015/06/listen-anarchist-by-david-harvey/

The only way to achieve communism is through Marxism-Leninism-Maoism. You can't reach communism without a cultural revolution.

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Daily reminder that Deleon very specifically envisioned syndicalism as a revolutionary movement that could only succeed if the trade union and labor party worked together, hence the tandem founding of the Socialist Labor Party and the Industrial Workers of the World. Radical trade unions have never had the membership necessary to force a change in government or organize a paramilitary insurrection without the assistance of political organizations. A political party subject to the desires of a union is the only way to actually present socialistic policy in bourgeois government which the unions may exert pressure to enact and political organizations are the only way to create a coherent asymmetrical warfare-capable structure for union militia in the event of revolution.

I am not anti-Maoist but it is incredibly strange to claim that that is the "only" way to communism considering the state of China and the failed terroristic and arbitrarily despotic nature of the Shining Path.

where's this from?

Left Anticommunism: The Unkindest Cut -Michael Parenti

not syndicalism but radical unionism is ☭TANKIE☭ gang iww.org/content/black-cats-bond-industrial-workers-world-and-new-afrikan-black-panther-party-–-prison-chapte

Honestly as soon as people (porkies and porky adjecents) decry unions as using "mafia methods" I just swell with pride. God damn right, the union is the worker's very own mafia so watch your fucking step.

Just saying

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Rashid is a cool guy, I hope he gets out of prison

I don't know about US, but I would say that for Europe, mutualism is the optimal path to socialism (after which to communism). Its main advantage is that it is fully possible to achieve through incremental reforms. Low-key mutualist policies already exist in some EU states, like Germany with 30% companies board of directors being democratically elected by the workers, or Scandinavia with its big state support for unions. Over time, with more and more worker liberties and left leaning policies people of the country themselves would become more and more welcome to socialist ideas, accelerating the incremental process. At some point you would likely hit socialism (total control of the means of production by the workers) and perhaps you wouldn't even need worker elected officials for administrative purpose. All of this could be achieved without any bloodshed and without the risk of a corrupt bureaucracy taking over.

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That'd be all well and good if people never faced the crises of the bourgeoisie yeeting reformism into the second dimension, paired with reformist vote cuckery.

Mutualism seems incompatible with modern industry. It's why Engels described the consequences of Proudhon's views as follows:

Mutualism seems incompatible with modern industry. It's why Engels described the consequences of Proudhon's views as follows:

As an aside, the SLP wasn't founded in tandem with the IWW. It actually has its origins as far back as 1876, and De Leon assumed leadership in the 1890s. The SLP and IWW soon diverged because the latter refused to agree to political action, nor did it accept De Leon's overall dominating personality.

Well I only said "mutualism" in particular because its basic ideas fit from all other ideologies best for me (I still don't fully understand syndicalism so I didn't want to use the term as an idiot). So perhaps the deeper ideas of mutualism are negative in the way Engels described, but I don't see the main ideas that I wrote out in my post (workplace democratisation, pro-unionism, market socialism (at least during the transition), anti-bureaucratism) as incompatible with modern society.

liberals get out

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explain

So this… Is the power… Of leftcom…

Is there really much of a difference between syndicism and marxist leninism?

But does syndicalism assume that there would be no administrative body to direct production? I assumed there was meant to be some federal body elected by the syndicates that could determine what needed to be produced and have some powers to hold the disparate unions accountable for their production and distribution.

Except that's not what he's saying.

This, he's saying "syndicalism uniquely requires equivalent exchange (trade economies) because ???"

I dread to think what kind of person is behind this cursed post.

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Well OP, are you sure? Cause syndicalism has the Workers' control the means of productions whilst in a communist society the government controls it.

Hmmm, good point fellow worker

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Continued
Absolute boys

If you don't have tanks, what do you really have?

Nonsectariansocialism.jpeg

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I don't come on Zig Forums often, so I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

What you need is a black panther community survival/syndicalist tenants and trade unions a co-op network and a big gang of hard cunts you can train to be super soldiers

user was gulaged for this post

Did you guys see that CNT and IWW formed a international confederation of unions last year? What did you guys think?
berlin.fau.org/news/gruendung-der-internationalen-arbeiter-innen-konfoederation-iak-in-parma?set_language=en&cl=en

I saw it already and there's members of the New Afrikan BPP going abroad, so I'm erect.

Source on NABPP going abroad?

The IWOC (Incarcerated workers committee) is staffed by leading Panther party members (newyorker.com/news/as-told-to/an-inside-account-of-the-national-prisoners-strike iww.org/content/black-cats-bond-industrial-workers-world-and-new-afrikan-black-panther-party-–-prison-chapte) and they're corresponding with others at the confederation.

They have a website or any other place where i can receive some news about it?

rashidmod.com/
twitter.com/IWW_IWOC

Fuck I really hope this Panther/IWW coalition expands. Best hope for American revolutionary socialism atm imo.

Heavy seconding of keeping up with and reading the work of Rashid, he's an incredible guy doing invaluable work. He was in solitary for like a decade because no matter who they put him with he started educating and organizing them, including Aryan Brotherhood members (talks about this in one of his writings on race)

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why cant we all just get along?

Thanks comrade but i was talking about the ILC.

We will once the material conditions are right™, back during the great depression we were pretty united even though we had our ideological differences.

Bump.

This. State syndicalism with central planning. And one party.

I honestly don't understand why you would need a state to do central planning. You could have a national trade union center that organizes all trade unions and national resources.