Left to right gap

Thomas Bennett
Thomas Bennett

As you probably know, the far-right group has a much larger base than we do. How do we bridge that gap? Bernie and AOC (regardless of your opinion of them) pulled people to the left, but as terrorist right wing groups grow in numbers, so does the likelihood of actual fascism too. The biggest problem is that nazi's and other fascist groups have a false, yet simple message to complex economic problems. It's not just lone-wolf types, but groups like atom waffen, Identity Europa, alt-right, proud boys, etc. As time goes on, if Trump tries to say in office these groups will do everything they can to keep him in power, or worse, find someone not dump as shit, and can enact the policies they want.

How do we bridge the gap?

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William King
William King

Spread theory. Teach people about the tendancy of the rate of profit to fall, it's a fundamental internal contradiction of capitalism and will kill the idea that "capitalism is efficient and strong, cannot be killed etc.". Spread theory about history, spread theories about philosophy (determinism, hobbesian political theory etc.), spread knowledge of retroactive feedback effects in ecology. Make left-leaning videos conveying this information in an easily digestible & attractive way (some people are already doing a tremendous job).

Anthony Nelson
Anthony Nelson

Ridicule those half-skilled attention whoring plebs like Jordan Peterson, Sargon of Akkad, that ridiculous looking viking dude etc. Show everyone they're illiterate imposteurs.

Alexander Lopez
Alexander Lopez

As you probably know, the far-right group has a much larger base than we do.
Which country are we talking about here?

Either way, the far-right is currently pulling a New Left. If it doesn't get them killed, it will at the very least make them extremely vulnerable as they lose public support and begin fracturing into a million different varieties to save face.

Wyatt White
Wyatt White

There have been tens of millions of fascists in America for decades. They're called the christian right.
youtube.com/watch?v=TP5gjrh-3Ew&t=

Asher Cox
Asher Cox

the far-right is currently pulling a New Left.
What do you mean by new-left?

Aiden Reed
Aiden Reed

not an expert on the topic but if i'm not wrong the new left got fucking destroyed during the 60s, and it's theorized it was because leftist groups were actually doing shit and even commited crimes

Gavin Sullivan
Gavin Sullivan

Here's how you bridge it. Prevent any more workers joining the white nationalist movement. You do this by accepting certain things, such as workers (generally speaking, and I'm talking about the poorest of poor, the ones that earn less than the minimum wage) being more nationalist/patriotic, conservative, etc. When you accept this, and you don't reject/bully them as liberals and even some socialists would do (which mind you alienates them from the leftwing, there's no worse thing than telling a potential comrade, in the US for example, that the "racist working class" elected Trump). When we do this, workers will stop flocking over to the far right.

Julian Lewis
Julian Lewis

From the late 1960s to the early 1980s, a bunch of groups in the west (Weather Underground, RAF, etc.) grew tired with the pace of the current left in their respective countries and with the idea of spreading class consciousness slowly over time to a population which, for a large part, was not yet receptive to communist ideas. So they began engaging in direct bombing attacks and shootings with the hope that such actions would "wake up" the dormant proletariat and spur them to take further action against the state and capitalism by being an organized revolutionary militant example to a mistrustful populace living in generally insecure times. This had the opposite effect, and for the large part the proletariat of western countries ran into the hands of the state who offered stability and protection while destroying support for leftist parties everywhere as they had to distance themselves further from being affiliated with such terrorist groups. Usually such distancing involved throwing more radical groups/activists under the bus, which caused infighting and splitting on a scale the left as a whole hasn't really recovered from.

Jeremiah Lewis
Jeremiah Lewis

As much as chapo gets hate around here they've done the best job of that imo. Problem there is that's one group of people making fun of a whole slew of losers who have many imitators as well. There are a lot of leftist podcasts but they're not really trying to imitate that format, laughing at these people and insulting them. It tends to take a more serious tone with the others.

Jordan Perry
Jordan Perry

2844207
um sweaty ur wrong my bbc friends are already becoming the majority in all western nations

Jace Lee
Jace Lee

2844211
but what use do polish people have?

Angel Hill
Angel Hill

not a marxist, but if you want my opinion stop looking like the stormtroopers of neoliberalism. it looks opportunistic since you guys also say liberalism is no longer progressive, this is the era of imperialism and war, etc.

thaw on the national question and come up with a transitional program acceptable to the conservadem blue collar. that is, patriotic social-democracy

anything short of that lands you bookclub irrelevance or a temporary peripheral role of window-smashing in any liberal-led color revolution against populism

Dylan Gutierrez
Dylan Gutierrez

social-democracy
So you want us to not be stormtroopers of liberalism, by being the stormtroopers of liberalism?

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Angel Scott
Angel Scott

Really makes you think eh?

Nathaniel Phillips
Nathaniel Phillips

So you want us to not be stormtroopers of liberalism, by being the stormtroopers of liberalism?

I mean, it's liberal in the Marxist sense I guess. But, unless it's corporatism or socialism, it's liberalism to you guys.

It doesn't really leave any nuance for left-liberal and right-liberal, and how social-democrat differs from both. At least historically.

But okay, fine. Instead of being stormtroopers of liberalism, be whatever the trade union consciousness is. We don't even have that anymore, and nationalism has become a substitute for labor's solidarity.

Look at how the white blue collar has exited the new deal coalition and joined the GOP as its populist wing. Look at the popularity of Brexit in northern England.

Adrian Perez
Adrian Perez

I am in trades, and I would be in a union if possible, but in my area the unions are either:
A. Dead
or
B. Entirely a corporate apparatus and have been for years.
So there really isn't much in regards to unionism here period. And before you start, yes, I have tired to spread awareness about unions. The problem is the "bad" unions have more or less poisoned peoples perception on unions so to them its either that or no unions at all.

Jordan Jones
Jordan Jones

you're right about that. but, i used 'trade union consciousness' as a synonym for social-democracy, left-wing of capital, or whatever you want to call it.

basically, go back to the era of the second international. you are in one way or another anyway, marxism being basically in hibernation once again.

Charles Watson
Charles Watson

How many far right groups are actually significant in real life and not just on the internet? I used to LARP as a nazi when 4/pol/ was at its peak and I tell you, the majority of these people will never do anything irl.

Alexander Cook
Alexander Cook

You can't, the left has moved its base from the conservative white working class, to upper class whites and jews.

Here's the thing. Most white nationalists are somewhat to the left economically. White nationalists ARE the old left. Left fights for open borders, which is terrible for the white working class. In fact, this seems to show that the left is just a front of the neo-liberal corporations, who want cheap labour.

Most leftists now are weird white guys/Jews, holding signs and yelling about trans inclusivity, basically SJWs on steroids.

Cameron Walker
Cameron Walker

White nationalists ARE the old left.
hottest take spoken in history

Charles Torres
Charles Torres

to upper class whites and jews.
Proof?
Most white nationalists are somewhat to the left economically. White nationalists ARE the old left.
Being for a few public services and welfare doesn't make you left economically.
Left fights for open borders, which is terrible for the white working class.
No, we don't.
Most leftists now are weird white guys/Jews, holding signs and yelling about trans inclusivity, basically SJWs on steroids.
Stop using American liberals as a way to criticize the left. It's tiring at this point.

Jonathan Torres
Jonathan Torres

you must be one of those brocialists, user. why don't you just join us?

Jonathan Hughes
Jonathan Hughes

those gosh dang brocialists

Christopher Campbell
Christopher Campbell

yes user, the manarchists too. they all need to step down from leadership because of their hidden chauvinism.

why don't you join us nationalists? we're pretty anti-bourgeois too.

Easton Bailey
Easton Bailey

because i don't need to join nationalists to find anti-idpol pals you nigger

John Gonzalez
John Gonzalez

we're pretty anti-bourgeois too.
Bahahahaha. You guys can't stop licking boot so long as the foot is white.

Adam Peterson
Adam Peterson

i mean, we can't abolish classes, but we don't appreciate liberal-capitalism. it's plutocratic, materialistic, and atomizing. we believe in deproletarianization, just not with socialism.

we think it can only be done with petty bourgeois relations. family, church, owning a home, living in a small town, participation in local government, and having a shared identity.

we also have qts.

Nicholas Jenkins
Nicholas Jenkins

why the fuck would i join any of that wigger shit except for the last part in which case i will refuse as my only possible request for joining any ideology is a free cute jewish gf

Evan Murphy
Evan Murphy

does that mean you're okay with labor zionism?

Camden Stewart
Camden Stewart

no, just cute jewish gf

Christian King
Christian King

family, church, owning a home, living in a small town, participation in local government, and having a shared identity
all of this is possible under socialism though, and any re-implementation of petty-bourgeois production on a nationwide scale would simply lead to the re-emergence of capitalism.

Levi Anderson
Levi Anderson

maybe I misunderstood, I'm not a socialist and I was making that petty-bourgeois appeal to avoid breaking the rule of cloaking reactionary ideas in left wing rhetoric, but as far as I knew

per Origin of Family, Private Property, and the State, the family was built on the conquest of female reproductive labor and the communist society will feature communal rearing

religion and moralism is reactionary

there will be an even distribution of population between town and countryside, but mixed with expansion of the forces of production this entails more urbanization than not

decentralization into local government is something something multiplicity of forms per bordiga, concentration of power is progressive per marx because it readies things ripe for expropriation. communism is just the general administration of big capital transformed into common property that produces according to need, there's no local government or small property ownership

a commonly owned world has free flow of goods and labor on another level, and community is formed around interests rather than shared history

this is just my understanding through a left-communist friend of mine

Elijah Turner
Elijah Turner

left-communist
left-coms are not the majority here

Henry Kelly
Henry Kelly

is any of that wrong though? and aren't they just really orthodox marxists

Jackson Long
Jackson Long

communist society will feature communal rearing
This doesn't entail the wholesale breakup of family relations, but rather the passing away of the nuclear family as it exists under capitalism
religion and moralism is reactionary
I don't see anything wrong with personal faith and the provision of places of worship under socialism; I do, however, believe that religion would eventually fade away with the removal of the conditions that give rise to it in the first place under communism
there's no local government
Local matters still require local solutions, no matter how centralised production is. Section of the 1977 Soviet constitution dealing with local Soviets: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_Soviet_Union_(1977,_Unamended)#Chapter_19._Local_Bodies_of_State_Authority_and_Administration
small property ownership
if the intention is to use it to exploit others, then no; see art. 13 of the constitution above
community is formed around interests rather than shared history
Lenin:
Is a sense of national pride alien to us, Great-Russian class-conscious proletarians? Certainly not! We love our language and our country, and we are doing our very utmost to raise her toiling masses (i.e., nine-tenths of her population) to the level of a democratic and socialist consciousness. To us it is most painful to see and feel the outrages, the oppression and the humiliation our fair country suffers at the hands of the tsar’s butchers, the nobles and the capitalists.
existing socialist countries have tended to be quite patriotic and proud of their history

bear in mind I'm talking about socialism/lower communism so far seeing as we have/had a living reference for it in the USSR etc.