Prison labor

Because a lot of them are liberals

Theres nothing wrong with putting criminals to work for the good of society

Because prison labour under capitalism is a for profit affair that causes more harm than good, creating and supporting criminality rather than attempting to reform it. Even the Gulags attempted to be more progressive and was used as a forced measure to counter counter-revolution and to help industrialize harsher areas of the country by using people who already had a debt to society. Even then in a modern post-revolutionary society where industrialization and collectivization has been achieved, prison labour would be a very minimal thing necessary.

Still better than lettiing them sit on theor ass

Under capitalism it isn't as it strengthens our enemies and robs prisoners of leisure time. We really do not want prisons to become even more profitable to the capitalists.

Ah yes, and workers should never go on strike either, the unemployed should sell themselves into indentured servitude as well. Sure porky will profit massively by it but after all being a leftist means being a hard efficient worker committed to maximally contributing to our great society :^)

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wow wtf i didn't know everyone in prison was a rapist and a murderer
shit now i want them all to be forced into hard labor until they die of disease or are too weak to work at which point they get killed, thanks op you've enlightened me

Wut

Most crimes go unsolved so probably the prison population should be larger, not smaller

And?

They should at least work to pay off the costs of imprisonment

If you make imprisoning people cost-neutral you skew incentives. We should be working to reintegrate criminals into society.

Why should criminals be allowed to rejoin society?
Forced labor for the benefit of society or execution is the most preferable response

Agree 100%
Under socialism, every worker will be treated like this, in the sense that their basic needs will be provided for and in return they will be expected to work on whatever the Party requires from them

Reminder gulags were only profitable during Stalinist USSR, they weren't after.

see
they are not all rapists and murderers

...

I've read somewhere that Trotsky already written mid-1920s that it was overall more destructive and costly.

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For gulags to be profitable (inmates helped build dams and other big projects) the costs had to be kept low, but also the average Soviet citizen in the 1930s-40s wasn't exactly living in prosperity, so attention naturally went toward meeting their needs first rather than gulag inmates who were either convicted for political reasons or for stuff like rape or murder.

By the time Stalin died, the gulags were already determined to be unprofitable and thus moves were already being made to reduce them. See: b-ok.cc/book/777082/ae389c

So?

...

Why nut

I wonder who the people were who were not only sent to a gulag, but to the northernmost ones, near the East Siberian Sea, near the North Pole.

Prison Labour is borderline mandatory in the US, these workers are most of the time not paid at all; they generate far more value than they create, which is appropriated as surplus by firms who have private contracts with the state. If you're concerned about contributions to society, you should be wondering why these prisoners aren't paid for their labour and are instead operating through the state as a giveaway to Capitalists. You are literally paying your taxes directly to Capital when you're covering the costs of private prisons, because the prisoners are a Slave Labour force. This isn't unique to Prisons either by any means, there are similar slave labour camps with immigrants who are detained, these workers don't get deported they get kept as a slave labour force with even less rights than citizens. Do you really think that the cost of maintaining a prisoner is higher than reproduction costs for the average "free" worker? The problem isn't the work, the problem is that it's unpaid slave labour that is a handout to firms, and systemically incentivizes against reforming workers who commit crimes becuase it can exploit them harder under these conditions. Use your brain lad.

i know you are trolling but in the small instance you are serious well if someone kills a person while drunk driving they could be sent to jail for a short time while getting their license removed, is that not a good way to deal with a crime that's not rape and murder? there's also drug dealers, not something you can't get out of with enough rehabilitation.

Capitalist prison labor is bad because it incentivises the prison industry to find more ways to put more people into prison. Gulags are good because as you said they allow people to contribute back to society while also acting as a form of refomative justice (gulag prisoners were given a wage which was put into an account, were provided skills and training which they could utilize outside, were allowed to recieve visitors and provide for their family, etc.). They are not equivalent because the reasons are different.

prisons in socialist societies should be made to be capitalist shitholes to remind our citizens how horrible capitalism was /s

I'm not but you are doing the liberal think where if I was something about a demographic suddenly it applies to ALL prisoners.

Execution works well for such crimes.
If not then forced labor for a few years also works. Giving nice treatment is why we have a revolving door of criminality and people bragging about drunk driving is a skill..

The Philippines eliminated 80-90% of the drugs in their country by doing exactly what i am proposing

read capital you fucking moron theyre lumpenprole and work against the working class

ah yes, the most elaborate part of marxist theory, killing the outcasts because they have no possible rehabilitation!

here let me put it in a form your reddit brain can understand
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_army_of_labour

and if you want to rehab an antisocial, guess what. arbeit nicht macht frei

Ehhhhhh, I have family in the Philippines and that claim is extremely overexaggerated. Drugs still flow through the streets as they did before, it's just done less in the open. The enforcement effort didn't really affect the entire county as well, just the major cities and hot spots. Farther or less noticed baranggays still deal with the same problems as before. The police are also extremely corrupt, meaning they will turn a blind eye to the more wealthy drug dealers/users and many times will be involved in the drug trade themselves.

So you mean the major population centers where a majority of the drugs are going tp be?

Sorry but the information we have trumps your family anecdotes
gmanetwork.com/news/news/nation/581640/pnp-chief-illegal-drug-supply-already-reduced-by-80-90-percent/story/

you are very far detached from criminal justice and how it relates to the proletariat, lumpens & RAoL. The overwheminly majority of the prison population in places like the US ARE Workers, if not in civil society, then at least when they get inside. I bet you are perfectly capable of making arguments about petit-bourgs not being problems or being conciliatory to communist revolution if it were to happen, as well as critiquing them, and just being created by the complex system of capital itself but yet somehow can't do the same for those that comprise the "underclass", despite it being a more pressing issue now than ever. The issue needs serious discussion by Communists instead of brainlet posts like "Kill them all XD".

Christ you're actually a bootlicker aren't you?

Yeah workers can commit crimes too

No one is saying people of different class should have a different sentence

...

This isn't what I was implying at all, not sure why you're bringing this up, it is relevant though considering we all understand that state apparatus such as prisons & criminal justice does have class character, and as such, when you blatantly misunderstand what produces crime, like you do here:
>2844731

It sounds like what you were on about why else bring up different classes when i didn't even mention that.

,>it is relevant though considering we all understand that state apparatus such as prisons & criminal justice does have class character, and as such, when you blatantly misunderstand what produces crime, like you do here:
No i didn't. I never even brought up why such crimes are committed

Why the hell do you have that flag on?

Because im a communist anarchkiddie

ahoy my friend, you sure sound very communistic

No, you're really not
The fact you apparently choose to ignore the enormous number of societal factors that go into repeat criminality under capitalist law over "lol they just don't care about brison XDD its too soft on them" and the fact that verifiable data from different countries that went to counter some of those problems proves you exactly wrong suggests that you are not, in fact a communist.

Yah I'm sure MLs are REAL COMMUNISTS to you

How am i ignoring it?

Identify three societal factors that go into repeat criminality that isn't "the law enforcement system isn't harsh enough", reactionary.

Oh look, they have nothing to say to that. Go figure…

(OP)

Wtf? I love nazis now?

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Glad you agree.

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You're not an ML.

I don't really understand what everyone is arguing about. Capitalist prison labor is "bad" because it incentivises the prison industry to lobby for certain laws and police practices to allow for more people to be funneled into the system for cheap labor. Socialist labor camps are "goo"d however because they offer a safe suitable alternative for criminals to contribute back to society and "pay" they're keep. It also makes such things as capital punishment wasteful as those individuals are objectively better off working and creating useful services/products than dead, making capital punishment a thing purely reserved for those whom no other alternative exists or who commit a sutible crime and refuse to work. It's not a question of morality, but efficiency.

Reminder that socialist prisons, such as the GULAG system prisons, actually paid a living wage.

What does the reserve army of labour have to do with this?

Yes i am

Not how debates work

It wasn't even a "Living Wage", it was the full value of your labour minus the costs for your upkeep, which usually meant around 75% of what you "earnt". That being said this wasn't really achieved across the board by the time that the GULAG system was starting to be abandoned, and there were caveats such as only some of your wages were available to you on hand and they could only be spent at the camp stores; the rest was kept for you upon the end of your tenure. There were a lot of exceptions and complications when it came to this though, which is understandable given the period that the USSR was going through and the sheer lack of infrastructure which was part of the reason that the GULAG system was so neccessary in the first place. Regardless, on paper, and despite it's shortcomings, in practice, the GULAG system was the most progressive in the world for it's time, certainly beat getting experimented on and sterilized in US Prisons.

No you're not, I was the same user who was arguing with you earlier, I'm not going to dignify your bullshit with a response because you are incredibly misinformed and have a pathological hatred towards some abstract group of "Criminals" with no actual understanding of anything. The fact that you think that the GULAG system was anything like what you described and that you seem to think the propaganda against it was GOOD, blatantly shows that you aren't a communist, and for all your screeching about "anarkiddies", as if a flag is an indication of someone's theoretical viewpoint, you act like a literal stereotype of a communist. It's embarrassing for other MLs to have to deal with retards like you.

Lmao I forgot about the R.E.D Facist wordfilter