Race does not exist

Daniel Brown
Daniel Brown

Just a reminder that the concept of race was invented to justify colonialisation, to de-humanise the colonialised populations so that Europeans could slaughter them without feeling guilty, and to divide the working class/serfs/slaves.

'White' is not a race, because a 'white' Dutch person is different than a 'white' Ukrainian person. Same way 'black' is a ridiculous label because 'black' people from Kenya are different than the 'black' people from Morocco. When you laugh at /pol/yps and tell them "you're not white haha" you are conceding their argument and admitting they're right. We need to outright reject the concept of 'race'.

I know critiques of this don't have to come from the right, but can come from liberals and from the left. I'm sure they would argue that even though 'race' may be a construct, it has been used to oppress certain racial groups and that makes it real and worthy of tackling. To that I'd say that while problems with 'race' need to be tackled, and I do not want to minimise or diminish what has happened in the past, we have to tackle these issues within a different framework, not the framework given to us by the racists/colonisers. We can admit that 'African-Americans' in the US are generally worse of than the 'Whites' in the US, but that has to do with their historical position in the US society, giving them a shittier 'start' in post-1960s America. Some point to 'Asians' as being successful in the US. Again, it has to do with the material conditions they left at home and to which they arrived. 'African-Americans' were brought as slaves and had nothing, while 'Asian' immigrants came as workers and were able to afford to pay for their way to the US (as far as I know even the Chinese workers that were worked to death on the US's railroads weren't slaves, were paid and could own things as well as travel, someone correct this if I am wrong).

Those who wish to argue that 'race' is actually a real, observable feature in nature have to answer a few questions:
1) How do we decide who belongs to which 'race'?
2) How do you account for variations within 'races'?
2a) If you have variations within 'races', then how can you make conclusions and generalisations about the 'race'?
3) What insight and information can we gain through racial analysis, that we can't get from cultural/material/sociological analysis?

Please don't fall for linguistic traps and don't get into silly arguments about race. We need to be adamant about class and material analysis. Let them call us 'class reductionists' for not wanting to perpetuate racism.

Attached: bele-lokai.jpg (92.43 KB, 700x530)

Other urls found in this thread:

zigforums.com/thread/132995/left-politics
m.phys.org/news/2016-03-world-neanderthal-denisovan-ancestry-modern.html
internetlooks.com/humandifferentiation.html
youtube.com/watch?v=PY3lBKje46E
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanism
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4609613/
youtube.com/watch?v=hOfRN0KihOU
youtube.com/watch?v=oVoCKLyt2uw
msn.com/en-ca/news/world/dutch-terror-attack-suspect-caught-after-deadly-tram-shooting/ar-BBUUBdw?li=AAggFp4
healthland.time.com/2012/10/31/how-disasters-bring-out-our-kindness/
nytimes.com/2009/12/01/science/01human.html
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4335183/

Robert Wood
Robert Wood

I post the topic, go to /leftpol/ and this on the top: zigforums.com/thread/132995/left-politics

Elijah Rivera
Elijah Rivera

These false-flags keep getting more wordy and creative don't they?

Jayden Myers
Jayden Myers

What are you talking about? Besides, mods can look at my post history. If you have nothing to contribute, don't post.

Evan Wilson
Evan Wilson

"On the other hand, it is unquestionable that the great empires of Cyrus and Alexander could not be called nations, although they came to be constituted historically and were formed out of different tribes and races."
stalin in 'marxism and the national question', chapter 1

if races do not exist, how is it that stalin has referenced them?
he, unfortunatley, does not define what a race is here, maybe he does elsewhere, but surely they exist

Sebastian Edwards
Sebastian Edwards

Colours do not exist.
I do not exist.
Existence is a lie.

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Isaiah Barnes
Isaiah Barnes

if races do not exist, how is it that stalin has referenced them?
Silly argument.

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Jayden Campbell
Jayden Campbell

Who needs to be reminded of this?

When you laugh at /pol/yps and tell them "you're not white haha" you are conceding their argument and admitting they're right. We need to outright reject the concept of 'race'.
No we don't. The idea is that you reduce their terms into absurdity. It's crazy effective.
Please don't fall for linguistic traps and don't get into silly arguments about race.
To the contrary. Make the arguments as silly as you possibly can. Fall for all the linguistic traps and double down on them. Right-wing ideology relies on it that people don't take the logic to its end. So that's what you do.

Anthony Brown
Anthony Brown

he's clearly talking about ethnicities

Connor Reyes
Connor Reyes

Who needs to be reminded of this?
zigforums.com/thread/132995/left-politics
I know it's not the same board, but I see the same type of things on this board, too. That one just happened to be current.

No we don't. The idea is that you reduce their terms into absurdity. It's crazy effective.
Yes, the master logicians and debaters at /pol/ will definitely see the error of their ways when you spring reductio ad absurdum on them. They'd probably think it's a spell from Harry Potter. Good argumentation doesn't work. If it did, you could go to any right-wing community and use 'facts and logic' and convert them all.

Right-wing ideology relies on it that people don't take the logic to its end.
People don't become fascists because of reason and logic, so you cannot use reason and logic to dissuade them of their beliefs. All they see is you talking about race, which gives them the required grounding to say "ok, we all agree race is real, therefore there is some merit to race-based arguments and racial analysis". The idea is to outright reject the concept of 'race' so as to reject any argument based on it.

E.g.: (R right, L left)

R: White people are better than Black people because we have Western civilisation, Africans didn't even invent the wheel, Aborigines didn't invent agriculture, etc.
L: That's not true! Black people are that way because of these different factors that have nothing to do with them being Black, read 'Guns, Germs and Steel'

OR

R: White people are better than Black people because we have Western civilisation, Africans didn't even invent the wheel, Aborigines didn't invent agriculture, etc.
L: What is a 'White' person? What is a 'Black' person? Are we talking about the dark skinned black people, or are we talking about light skinned black people? Why are some 'White' people pasty white, while others have skin that gets darker in the sun?

See the difference? In the first example you've accepted their premise that 'race' is something real, to be discussed and used for analysis and conclusions. In the second example you don't even listen to their conclusions, you attack the premise. That is one of the best ways to win an argument, because if the premise is wrong, then the conclusion is definitely wrong.

And to add to my list of questions:
4) When two people of two different 'races' have offspring, what 'race' is the offspring? What about a mix between two 'races' has a child with someone of a third 'race'? How do we categorise these people into 'races'?

Angel Phillips
Angel Phillips

Yes, it does!

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Joseph Miller
Joseph Miller

all the ethnonatialists in this thread
Wtf happend to this board
Stalin said it’s true so it’s true
brainlit

Hunter Thomas
Hunter Thomas

2845342
What does it feel like to have brain damage? Kinda curious.

Nathaniel Jones
Nathaniel Jones

Don't respond to right-wingers trying to derail threads and ruin discussion, please.

Eli Sanchez
Eli Sanchez

Yes, the master logicians and debaters at /pol/ will definitely see the error of their ways when you spring reductio ad absurdum on them.
I'm not talking about a dumb debate-club reductio ad absurdum. I mean some real visceral shit. Use advanced race realist science to prove that whites are genetically inferior to blacks. Explain why

Both your proposed dialogues are equally pathetic liberal bullshit. It should be
R: White people are better than Black people because we have Western civilisation, Africans didn't even invent the wheel, Aborigines didn't invent agriculture, etc.
L: LMAO. Shitty neanderthal barbarian cumskins didn't invent shit. While Africans were practicing advanced agriculture on the Nile, Europeans were still throwing sticks at mammoths. Africans and aboriginals were doing just fine until white people came along, and fucked everything up. The pale milk-drinkers ruin everything in their quest to compensate for their utter lack of redeeming qualities.
The truth is simple: Blacks have superior virility and physical strength and Asians have superior brain power. Both are morally superior. There is no reason for white subhumans to continue existing. Make way for the superior mixed race of the future. Cross breeding produces healthy and beautiful offspring. That's scientific fact.
All the intelligent white people already understand this. That's why women bless them with the opportunity to pass their genes into the future super-race. It's only pathetic worm-like creatures like yourself and your spastic martyr SHITler that refuse to acknowledge the truth.

Then watch them scramble to come up with a response. They can't do it!
2845342
this much of an inferiority complex

Brandon Sanchez
Brandon Sanchez

Stalin said it’s true so it’s true
correct.

Parker King
Parker King

Use advanced race realist science to prove that whites are genetically inferior to blacks.
LMAO. Shitty neanderthal barbarian cumskins didn't invent shit. itd.
Do you think you can beat them at their own game? It's futile to even attempt. To an outside observer you'd look just like them and wouldn't achieve anything.

If you engage in a back and forth with them on their terms, using their language, you have admitted to yourself, them and anyone else who might see it that they are right about the general idea of 'race'; now you're just arguing 'who is better'. Again, we must outright reject their hierarchical categorisation of 'races'.

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Jace Torres
Jace Torres

If races don't exist, then can you explain this ?
m.phys.org/news/2016-03-world-neanderthal-denisovan-ancestry-modern.html

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Julian Flores
Julian Flores

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Nathan Clark
Nathan Clark

White people's quality is that they are essentially a mix of black and asian people. Get fucked.

Jason Robinson
Jason Robinson

If you have variations within 'races', then how can you make conclusions and generalisations about the 'race'?

If you have variations within genders, then how can you make conclusions and generalisations about the gender?

Kevin Cook
Kevin Cook

You should look at this:
internetlooks.com/humandifferentiation.html

It disproves your dumbass point that "whites are inferior"

Aaron Evans
Aaron Evans

Let's also add that, on an artistic note(I will use music for my example), black people for e.g. seem to be really trash at some music genres, for example.

James Perez
James Perez

If race exists there is only one race the human race.
Also Macro Evolution is a lie.

Matthew Wilson
Matthew Wilson

all race science instantly gets abandoned by the right as soon as somebody dares to say what was known forever - that middle easterners are white

Ryder Jones
Ryder Jones

Their game is exactly to say outrageous shit others can't follow them in. You're falling for it.
white people are better at these dumb games they invented
Wow I'm impressed.
This is also a good one. Also stress that European Jews are basically the whitest people you can find.

Liam Green
Liam Green

I guess that's why they like Assad so much?

Chase Rogers
Chase Rogers

Why is the OP image Zetsu? But in all honesty race is indeed a social construct. It would be better to find a different name for the various phenotypical differences, but race doesn't function as that name, simply because a Race is usually applied to a (self-aware and 'civilized') species as a whole, I.E. the HUMAN race, the X Race, the Y Race whatever.

Hudson Myers
Hudson Myers

The American left drove out people with enough integrity to point out its errors, and then Michigan flipped red because they’d been making tons of them.

Kevin Morales
Kevin Morales

if race doesn't real what race is Samuel L Jackson

lel middle easterners were NEVER considered white, never ever ever, just because they ticked "white" on us census forms when they were a tiny insignificant minority is absolutely meaningless.

brainlet tier take, this ain't it chief. yikes my dude.

David Lewis
David Lewis

I agree. "Race" is conditioned by weather factors. Maybe the term "ethnic" is more accurate.

Jaxon Lopez
Jaxon Lopez

He meant race in an older sense. One could have called Romans a "race" even though today they wouldn't be considered one.

This. Arguing with idiots makes you an idiot.

If that map is your criterion for race then Yemenis are white. Do you believe that?

Kevin Reyes
Kevin Reyes

Ethnicity and race are two seperate things. Ethnicity is a phenotype, whereas race is a social construct based loosely on those phenotypes.
For example, ethnic Irish people have a certain look, but historically were classed as "black" or "mediterranean" and in modern nomenclature are classed as "white"

Eli Scott
Eli Scott

it's funny because when we say white we refer to europeans right? But just look a swedish and italian, that's because the term ethnic is more accurate

Owen Ortiz
Owen Ortiz

Two quick general notes:
Humanity has relatively narrow genetic variation when compared to other mammals
<This is assumed to be due to some relatively recent and severe population bottleneck
Nearly all variation exists in sub-Saharan Africa
<It is assumed that human migration from the continent was another significant genetic bottleneck, only relatively few departing and even fewer surviving in the long term, while ever extending distances in-between limited mixing with other groups
As such it may be sensibe to say that humans are not dogs, nor can varistions in exterior looks be strictly equated with actual genetic distance.

Austin Hernandez
Austin Hernandez

this is the same race as you and me

lol

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Zachary Wilson
Zachary Wilson

anti-racism is idealist

Aaron Roberts
Aaron Roberts

What are you talking about, this is exactly what you mongrels look like
Keep wishing that you were white

Julian Clark
Julian Clark

then how can you make conclusions and generalisations about the gender?
But we don't?

Ian Anderson
Ian Anderson

those are 95 year old women

Joshua James
Joshua James

They are not “women”. They are apes

Lucas Williams
Lucas Williams

And you? You are an evolved ape?

Luke Lee
Luke Lee

lol what do you think YOU will look like when you're 95?
don't answer. you'll probably die of heart failure in your 60s mr master race. you'll just look like a worm eaten corpse

Oliver Butler
Oliver Butler

It's important to clarify that genetic markers and haplogroups exist without question. What we mean when we say "race does not exist" is that the generalized phenotype based constuct of race does not exist. As in, X group of people occupying some shared societal category based on appearance alone, generally skin tone. The problem is that /pol/yps will conflate the two, which makes the statement "race does not exist" sound ridiculous when put into such context. When someone says "race does not exist" without clarifying what they mean by "race", it gives /pol/-types the opportunity to inject a completely different meaning to what we are saying, that is "genetic markers and haplogroups don't exist", a belief which we do not hold.

Brayden Cook
Brayden Cook

It's only the race threads that draw out the /pol/tards in droves. The only thing they can comprehend is WHITE BLACK WHITE BLACK WHITE BLACK.

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Parker Powell
Parker Powell

Well put, comrade.

Luis Nelson
Luis Nelson

white people are better at these dumb games they invented

Wow I'm impressed.
Well sorry bro, but they still show capacities.

Colton Mitchell
Colton Mitchell

This is a slide thread, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if OP posted this because he knows how on edge /pol/ is atm and wants to argue with retards.

Nathaniel Cooper
Nathaniel Cooper

First of all, can you tell me what 'slide thread' means? I've seen the expression a lot on 4/pol/ but I still don't know what it means. Serious question.

Second, I don't wish to argue with retards. I wish for us on Zig Forums to stop engaging in race-related discussions. Judging by some responses there is room for comrades to learn and grow.

Example: Many anons jumped in to define themselves as 'white', when 'white' is a useless category and description.

Besides, we're not doing much else on this board other than talking/arguing/etc. And if we can talk about video games, anime, a Zig Forums senate, then why not this? If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to read/respond.

John Wilson
John Wilson

Not that guy, but a slide-thread is a thread you make to contain a certain narrative or discussion. Meaning that the thread exists to make sure the rest of the threads aren't spammed to hell by /pol/troon

Jeremiah Perez
Jeremiah Perez

slide thread
on /pol/ the term refers to a distraction/junk thread meant to 'slide' important threads off the board/front page so people dont see/discuss them. Given how slow this board is i cant imagine its possible to slide here effectively, but i suppose its secondary meaning of a junk thread meant to distract discussion away from other threads (similar to bait in this context) might still apply.

Important to note is the distinction that sliding on /pol/ is imagined as a coordinated attack on the board from outside forces/shills, but which is hidden. So while sometimes you might see mass spamming of images or phrases in new threads designed to push legitimate threads off the board, sliding implies that all the slide threads are unique and intended to be actively engaged with by unwitting users so the 'attack' is done in secret and people caught up arguing in one of the slide threads dont even notice the important events or happening that are attempting to be slid.

Gavin Long
Gavin Long

Why are anarchists always the gayest leftists. Also race is useful as a shorthand for groups of people; It's only a problem if race is used as justification for mistreating people.

Camden James
Camden James

Thats just WE WUZ trolling and also aimed at some imaginary Churchill tier imperialist/colonist who wants to purge kaffir for being in the way of Greater Rhodesia.

But against a modern race realist who argues with adaption to different bioms (basically telling everybody to stay where their bodys are made for) this only results in beating up strawman

Lucas Young
Lucas Young

Thanks. Well, that would make sense on a much faster board, but I think Zig Forums is too slow for that sort of thing.

Given how slow this board is i cant imagine its possible to slide here effectively, but i suppose its secondary meaning of a junk thread meant to distract discussion away from other threads (similar to bait in this context) might still apply.
Your post appeared as I was typing mine.

I don't think of myself as starting junk threads, at least I try not to. I just see a lot of discussion about race around here and /leftpol/ and I wanted to remind that we should not engage in that type of stuff because it doesn't advance our interests at all.

Stuff like:
Also race is useful as a shorthand for groups of people; It's only a problem if race is used as justification for mistreating people.
That is not how language works. You can't say "this is how we want what we say to be used, you can't use it any other way". It's a very small gap between using it for shorthand to refer to people in a neutral way and to refer to people in a negative way.

Cooper Wright
Cooper Wright

1) Just fucking ask people what race they are.The answers are at least 99% accuracte.
2) Life is a bell curve
2a) By observing their behaivious on a broad scale, then deduce averages. While doing that you take into account how diffrent their environment and genome is (roughly speaking). At the end you just compare these averages.
3) user ffs. We are biological creatures whos ancestory reaches back millions of years. Capitalism and cultural/material/sociological analysis exists for not even a fraction of that time. Evolution is fucking real. Evolutionary psychology is more accurate than inaccurate most of the time. If you ignore our history, then literally what in the actual fuck are you doing other than just sniffing your shitlib ideology?

We need to be adamant about class and material analysis.
Yes, but that dosent mean you throw proven theories like evolution under the bus because they hurt your feelings.

Matthew Gonzalez
Matthew Gonzalez

"White" generally to refers to broadly European Americans.

Polish American culture and Italian American culture are closer to eavh other than they are to their respective proper European nations, and yet are widely distinct from african american culture, history, fuck even language.

Angel Lee
Angel Lee

1) Just fucking ask people what race they are.The answers are at least 99% accuracte.
Do you use the same method when it comes to gender?

2) Life is a bell curve
Meaningless.

2a) By observing their behaivious on a broad scale, then deduce averages. While doing that you take into account how diffrent their environment and genome is (roughly speaking). At the end you just compare these averages.
deduce averages
You're just talking nonsense at this point.

3) What insight and information can we gain through racial analysis, that we can't get from cultural/material/sociological analysis?
<3) user ffs. We are biological creatures whos ancestory reaches back millions of years. Capitalism and cultural/material/sociological analysis exists for not even a fraction of that time. Evolution is fucking real. Evolutionary psychology is more accurate than inaccurate most of the time. If you ignore our history, then literally what in the actual fuck are you doing other than just sniffing your shitlib ideology?
Is that meant to be an answer to 3?

that dosent mean you throw proven theories like evolution under the bus because they hurt your feelings.
We're talking about 'race', not evolution.

"White" generally to refers to broadly European Americans.
And not Europeans, or South Africans, or Canadians?

Polish American culture and Italian American culture are closer to eavh other than they are to their respective proper European nations, and yet are widely distinct from african american culture, history, fuck even language.
Race does not determine culture. I don't know what you're trying to say.

And a question that hasn't been answered yet:
4) When two people of two different 'races' have offspring, what 'race' is the offspring? What about a mix between two 'races' has a child with someone of a third 'race'? How do we categorise these people into 'races'?
How do we classify the 'mixed' (meant in the racist sense, all Humans are mixed) offspring and people? To which racial group to we attribute their behaviour? Do we create a subset for each 'mixture'? It seems like all this 'race' thing seems very hard to keep track or make sense of.

Liam Sanchez
Liam Sanchez

The idea of there being a "black" and "white" race is an American delusional that will die with the country's empire. I am a bit apprehensive about the EU attempting to adopt it though.

Kayden Taylor
Kayden Taylor

Do you use the same method when it comes to gender?
No: race is a continium, sex is binary.
<2) Life is a bell curve
Meaningless.
Nope, grow up.
You're just talking nonsense at this point.
Group generalisations are things that exist and accurate to a certain extend.
We're talking about 'race', not evolution.
And once you realise the implications of evolution, questioning the validity of "race" becomes meaningless.
How do we classify the 'mixed' (meant in the racist sense, all Humans are mixed)
As i said, ask people what race they are and it will be an accurate answer with 99%. Having an outlier every 1000 births dosent mean shit in the real world.

Xavier Hernandez
Xavier Hernandez

All humans are apes by definition, retard

Hunter Diaz
Hunter Diaz

As i said, ask people what race they are and it will be an accurate answer with 99%.
Are we going by categories like "white, black, etc." or actual specific haplogroups and ethnicities like pic related?

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Anthony Rodriguez
Anthony Rodriguez

they look different
Ah yes, very science.

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Isaiah Perry
Isaiah Perry

We can go by pretty much whatever classification you use, as long as people have a veigue intuitive understanding on what these classifications are. So "white, black, etc." is good enough.

James Ramirez
James Ramirez

We can go by pretty much whatever classification you use,
veigue intuitive understanding
So "white, black, etc." is good enough.
But fuck postmodernism, amirite?

Jordan Hall
Jordan Hall

So "white, black, etc." is good enough.
Literally how. All of those classifications go by appearance alone, which is a very shallow outlook on genetics.

Levi Cooper
Levi Cooper

"The particular PLINK procedure we used sets a fixed cluster size or the fixed number of ancestral populations. It assigns individuals into one and only one ancestral population, and the individuals assigned to the same ancestral population are relatively homogeneous with respect to AIM frequencies.
[…]
Both the PLINK and STRUCTURE procedures assume that the individuals in the analysis have originated from K populations. K is was chosen for each analysis run, but it can be varied across different runs. Because our panel of AIMs was designed to differentiate continental populations of Europeans, Africans, and East Asians, we set K = 3. However, to test the robustness of our results to choice of K, we performed analyses assuming K = 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7.
[…]
[pic related] presents results from PLINK cluster analysis, showing both the percentage and case distribution of self-reported race by PLINK-estimated genetic cluster or bio-ancestry. These PLINK estimates (as well as other estimates based on genetic data) are placed in quotation marks to differentiate them from self-reports. The samples were assumed to have derived from three ancestral populations (K = 3). We repeated the analysis, assuming K = 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7, and using a fuller range of self-reported racial classification groupings. The findings from these additional analyses are substantively identical to those in Table 2 and are also available upon request.
[…]
In ROOM, of those who self-reported as white, 99.5 % were assigned into the “white” category by the cluster analysis. Of those who self-reported as black, 99.3 % were classified as “black.” We separated South Asians from non–South Asians; previous work suggests that South Asians share substantial bio-ancestry with Europeans (e.g., Rosenberg et al. 2002). Of those self-classifying as non–South Asians (including Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Filipinos, and Vietnamese), 97.7 % were assigned as “non–South Asians.” Three of the four self-reported American Indians were classified as “white.” The bootstrapping 95% confidence intervals for the three key groups of whites, blacks, and non–South Asians were [99.0, 99.9], [94.7, 100], and [89.5, 100], respectively, indicating that the correspondence between bio-ancestry and self-reports for the three main racial groups is estimated with precision."

TL;DR people know what their race is
I know people here love reddit-tier science where everything must be 100% correctly defined or else it dosent exist, but in the real world 99% is good enough.

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John Green
John Green

How do we classify the 'mixed' (meant in the racist sense, all Humans are mixed) offspring and people? To which racial group to we attribute their behaviour? Do we create a subset for each 'mixture'? It seems like all this 'race' thing seems very hard to keep track or make sense of.

Continuum fallacy. There are an arbitrary number of distinguishable shades between red and orange, yet they can be recognized as distinct.

Carson Cruz
Carson Cruz

You know, I've been thinking. Since different human populations are not quite clear-cut, but there is a gradual shift in between them, isn't every test, from something as simple as a brown-bag test to high-tech genetic analysis, more or less always based on opinion? After all, someone has to decide where to draw a line between "close enough" and "not quite close enough". And what if you must make exceptions, or, heaven forbid, adjust these values due to them? You would be openly admitting that "white" was not "white" at all.
I could imagine a 'pure-Aryan nation', assuming it allows some immigration of "fellow whites", to spiral into some kind of purity-zealotry. After all, such radical conditions being the norm, much ado can be expected from more radical elements if the borders are kept "clean", but the interior is '"'impure with unwanted elements"''. And if you go on that path, removing naturalized and multi-generational parts of your society to adhere to the same standards, at which gradient of "white" would it ever stop? Considering what we've seen in the past about Italians and Irishmen not being "white", I cannot imagine some nutjob to ever stop complaining about the corrupting and vile influence of totally non-white group X. Or, at worst, using this state of affairs to get rid of his political opponent, or annoying neighbour, or that faggy guy at the bar, or…

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Hunter Evans
Hunter Evans

You shouldn't turn it into we wuz trolling. Stay within the parameters they set up.
But against a modern race realist who argues with adaption to different bioms (basically telling everybody to stay where their bodys are made for) this only results in beating up strawman
Obviously you invent a different narrative then. Talk about how global warming implies that Muslims taking over Europe is the only way for humanity to progress.

Sebastian Martinez
Sebastian Martinez

That's bullshit. The same dichotomy was used in European imperialism into Africa.

Jeremiah Bell
Jeremiah Bell

Self-reported race is generally considered the basis for racial classification in social surveys, including the U.S. census. Drawing on recent advances in human molecular genetics and social science perspectives of socially constructed race, our study takes into account both genetic bioancestry and social context in understanding racial classification. This article accomplishes two objectives. First, our research establishes geographic genetic bio-ancestry as a component of racial classification. Second, it shows how social forces trump biology in racial classification and/or how social context interacts with bio-ancestry in shaping racial classification. The findings were replicated in two racially and ethnically diverse data sets: the College Roommate Study (N = 2,065) and the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (N = 2,281).
Also, you completely dodged my point which was that the categories themselves (white, black, asian, etc.) are extremely broad and end up grouping differing populations and haplogroups, sometimes far differing populations and haplogroups. You then respond to this by posting a study observing how people's self-identification usually matches up most of the time (save for Native Americans) with these extremely broadly drawn social categories that combine differing haplogroups. I literally stated that the categories are broad, then your response is "Look at this study in which people insert themselves into these broad groups". It's like if I said "Look at how close the Norwegians are to the Saami who themselves are quite close to the Russians and bear relation to the Nenets, with both the RU and NE sharing ancestry with the Kazan Tatars who are very close to other eastern groups, but when looking at what society would define as "white" both the Kazan people and their close eastern groups would not be categorized as such. The amount of R1b in the Scottish haplogroup and other western European haplogroups also shows how much they differ from other "white" European groups that have far less R1b. It seems white exists as a category that is extremely arbitrarily drawn by society" and then you responded with "But look at how many people identify as white and fit in it. Checkmate." You missed the point. Some things that I find humorous though
We separated South Asians from non–South Asians; previous work suggests that South Asians share substantial bio-ancestry with Europeans (e.g., Rosenberg et al. 2002).
Wew

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Kevin Anderson
Kevin Anderson

The point that user was trying to make was that at what point is the red-orange more red than orange or more orange than red, especially in regards to how society catagorizes them. If a "red" has a child with an "orange" and have two children with one of them being strikingly red and the other strkingly orange, are they regarded as red-orange or is each just grouped up with what they are closer with? Best real world example is the situation with mixed children where they can be anywhere in between their two parents in regards to skin color and appearance (they can look very close to just one of them, or appear with a mix of features).

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Camden Long
Camden Long

Race has been proven scientifically. Each race deserves its own ethnostate with its own economic system.

Jaxon Martin
Jaxon Martin

When?

Evan Price
Evan Price

Drawing a line in between two things without explaining the line whatsoever
Everytime

Logan Roberts
Logan Roberts

See he has a different skin pigmentation so he's a different species
A black German Shepherd and white German Shepherd and short German Shepherd and squinty eye German Shepherd and polka dot German Shepherd are all the same suspecies. AKA German Shepherds

Samuel Lewis
Samuel Lewis

youtube.com/watch?v=PY3lBKje46E

Brody Jones
Brody Jones

Yeah I remember that /pol/ meme from 2014 as well. Get new material.

Brayden Nguyen
Brayden Nguyen

lel middle easterners were NEVER considered white, never ever ever, just because they ticked "white" on us census forms when they were a tiny insignificant minority is absolutely meaningless.

Indians were actually considered Caucasian by race science.

Jordan Ramirez
Jordan Ramirez

a lot of gene studies show that gene variation between two races is the same of the variation of a one race. don't forget the melanin levels and nose size are a very small factor when comparing genes.
that's speaking on the objective inside but when speaking of the visual appearance things get more complicated. first you need to get rid of height and skeletal build because that's mostly environmental factors. now we are left with only the face, looking at ai generated photos of a lot people of a country shows that the gene studies are correct but also shows that africans do look different from asians, those differences are very insignificant when comparing genes thus giving the result that there is no race.
no one knows why, maybe because of breeding with different type of homo, maybe some random dominant features that developed in early human history when people were very far from each other that they started getting more varied, gene adaptation? who knows.
tl;dr
the mainstream understanding of race is incorrect speaking scientifically

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Matthew Clark
Matthew Clark

a lot of gene studies show that gene variation between two races is the same of the variation of a one race

as far as I know, this is where people talk past each other. Yes, there is more variation within than between, but this is like saying that because there's more kinds of cars than trucks, there's no reason to separate the two.

To my understanding, each individual loci varies more within a population group than between. However, when you correlate them population structures arise.

How you divide these will probably never be solved, however my belief is that people socially and sexually select for peers within a certain threshold of genetic distance. Studies on marriage and friendships seem to suggest this.

Finally, I'd suggest this kind of essentialism is compatible with Marxism since biology is essentially a material condition that is shaped by and expressed within other matierlal conditions.

In other words, there's little reason to separate genes and environment, and this fact creates particularities which in turn directly relate to Marxist theories of the national question, uneven and combined development of capitalism, and so on.

Nolan Gutierrez
Nolan Gutierrez

No, literally black and white people are about as racially and genetically different than black and white German Shepherds. They are the exact same species. The reason black communities have a high crime rate is because they are most often poverty ridden. Go to white poverty ridden communities in Moscow or Sweden, and you're likely to get jacked or killed. The reason minority communities are poverty ridden is they are minorities in vote and representation. They get fucked over. Hell the CIA has pumped crack and heroin into those communities more than once. Also, people who are only politically motivated by race preservation, abortion, bootlicking police / military forces and wanting to keep the current economic system which is basically rich people don't pay taxes but use middle-class paid taxes as a slush fund are fucking useless. They are literally doing nothing of value or productive for working class livelihood and conditions. In fact they're just the oligarchs deranged and violent bitch that end up attacking whoever conservative media tells them too.

Blake Hernandez
Blake Hernandez

There's more than just pigmentation differences.

Carson Bennett
Carson Bennett

Black German Shepherd and white German
Just because /pol/yps will latch on to this, it's more of like if you observed the German Shepards raised exclusively in one area vs another (even though this isn't really the best example because humans populations move and intermingle all the time throughout history). The German shepards in one area might have different heights, coloration, and maybe even snout shape then the other German shepards in the other area/town, but when observed and compared to other breeds like say Labradors they still show themselves to be largely similar and when tested still share largely the same genome. Dogs are bad example anyway because they have had immense outside pressure applied to them which leads to very little varience within it's own populations (as in, for the most part they were actively prevented from taking in other internal population variations as breeders selected dogs with only certain set qualities and discarded/gelded the rest). Mutt groupings and maybe common pitbulls would be a better example if anything.

Aaron Brooks
Aaron Brooks

Here's a better question to ask than "does race exist" –
who gives a shit if race exists? Why give a shit about race at all?

A lot of libs play this game that if you ignore someone's race, then you're a racist. To me a racist is someone who is keen to always point out racial identity and racial differences. Instead of getting caught in the racist game (whites are better than blacks) or the inverse-racist game (whites are worse than blacks) play the non-racist game (people are people).

Ethnicity is a huge spook. Nationalism is a huge spook. Ancestors are a huge spook. You are not your ancestors. You are not your country. You are you and you alone. The color of your skin is never a justification for moral weakness or vices.

You can be anti-racial identity (idpol critical) and still be anti-racist btw.

Laughing at everyone taking the bait in this thread.

Jaxon Ramirez
Jaxon Ramirez

I've got a master's in engineering. I've met black people and arabics in both the workforce and graduate school that are kind brilliant people and make your /pol/yp look like they're violent troglodyte mongoloids. I mean 95% of the boomers in /pol/ couldn't solve for the derivative of x^2 let alone breakdown hamiltonian adaptive control theory on an RTOS to safety critical systems regulation standards. Hell they make up 90% of their statistics on the spot. The whole identatarian white culture is bullshit that conservatives feed them, because they realize their economic policies don't appeal to them and their social contracts are strengthening a strict ruling class heirarchy as opposed to tools of liberty. Right wing ideologies do not benefit white people in any way shape or form. All it amounts to is opportunists dog whistling while they loot their countries treasury and profit off of throwing them in prison for mind your own fucking business laws. Race is just a scapegoat oligarchs use to distract plainhearted dupes while they plunder and fuck them over.

Ian Martin
Ian Martin

Also, if a boomer loses a job to an illegal immigrant that doesn't speak English they are so unskilled and worthless it makes me think eugenics on them would be good for our species survival.

Liam Gonzalez
Liam Gonzalez

This didn't need to be added. It's a silicon valley argument and is something which can easily rebutted.

Colton Sanchez
Colton Sanchez

If you lose your job to an illegal immigrant who doesn't speak the language then that basically means you can be trained for your job in pantomime. I mean if you're worried about losing your job mowing lawns or washing dishes then you need to reconsider your life choices. Shit reconsider raising the minimum wage. I would be embarrassed if I was so unskilled an illegal immigrant who couldn't speak English took my job.

Matthew Williams
Matthew Williams

Then to think someone so unskilled they are scared of losing their job to someone without papers or able to communicate in English wants to give lectures on scientific racism, political hegemonies, capitalism or statistics. It's like having someone that can't do simple arithmetic decide they're superior to Feynman at quantum mechanics.

Jaxson Nelson
Jaxson Nelson

If you lose your job to an illegal immigrant who doesn't speak the language then that basically means you can be trained for your job in pantomime
Most minimum wage occupations are like this. It's inevitable.
I mean if you're worried about losing your job mowing lawns or washing dishes then you need to reconsider your life choices.
Again, this is a Silicon valley argument. It ignores that the majority of jobs for people in the economy will be this kind of easily trained for but low paying labour. If you make this argument to someone they will simply refute it by stating the benefits of cheaper labour at some point outweigh the hiring of a more expensive employee with training in regards to short term profit goals.
This is even less of an arguement. They would just point out that your not actually addressing the validity of their claim, just trying to make reference to their occupation to discredit it. A true fact stated by a homeless man doesn't become false because a homeless man is stating them. Either something is true, or it's not true.

I'm just telling you this because they are both bad arguments that if said outside will easily get shot down. If they're meant to just get reactionaries angry, then there are better things than an argument that literally gives them a freebie to use against you.

Connor Stewart
Connor Stewart

<2) Life is a bell curve
Meaningless.
Nope, grow up.
What the fuck does 'Life is a bell curve' even mean? Trees are a sine curve. Grass is a straight line. You're spewing literal nonsense.

Group generalisations are things that exist and accurate to a certain extend.
Example?

And once you realise the implications of evolution, questioning the validity of "race" becomes meaningless.
What implications of evolution? We can't read your mind, you have to say what you mean.

As i said, ask people what race they are and it will be an accurate answer with 99%.
A Dutch man and a Nigerian woman have a child, that child then has a child with the offspring of a Vietnamese and Argentinian child. Then that child moves to Canada and has a child with a Chinese Canadian. What race are they? Their guess is as good as yours. And you need to do better than guessing if you want your 'race' theories to be taken seriously.

Others
Multiracial
Three of the four self-reported American Indians were classified as “white.”
Yes, very precise and science-y.

Luke Thompson
Luke Thompson

Lol different breeds of dogs aren’t subspecies. And a subspecies is more than “looks way different than each other”.

Evan Foster
Evan Foster

When you laugh at /pol/yps and tell them "you're not white haha" you are conceding their argument and admitting they're right. We need to outright reject the concept of 'race'.
No it doesn’t. It’s simply pointing out the glaring self destructiveness of most Nazis. That the ideology they follow is so blood thirsty it usually calls for the death of most of the people advocating for it if you even do a cursory reading of it.
This goes all the way back to Hitler himself. I’ll be damned if even as a kid I thought he looked Jewish. Regardless he was physically deformed only one testicle, and would have been euthanized if he lived as a child under his own Nazi regime.
This “you’re not white” really seems to have gotten under Nazis skin because this is like the 10th time I’ve seen a /pol/yp complain about it in less than month. But you Nazis could litterally not have been asking for it more though.

Jayden Miller
Jayden Miller

Making up hullshit for bullshits sake is not my cup of tea, it serves no purpose in the long run.

„All I ever wanted was the truth.“ as Space Mussolini here said

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Charles Price
Charles Price

Those loci doesn’t relate to phenotypes and they sure as hell don’t correlate to phenotypes we’d associate to race. This is all bullshit out of the “Trouble Inheritance” book /pol/yps like to cite from.

Alexander Martinez
Alexander Martinez

I’ll be damned if even as a kid I thought he looked Jewish
<you Nazis
Nice try.

Thomas Wright
Thomas Wright

Illegal immigration simply isn't a threat to a person who wants a shitty job. It's not a silicon valley argument as the illegal immigrants will produce value with their labor which creates economic capital. There are service industry jobs, sales, management, medical, and plenty of work that requires English. The type of jobs illegal immigrants are likely to take are generally speaking hard rote labor. As far as being lectured by a right wing homeless man versus a landscaper I would think the homeless man was smarter. A landscaper who still believed in capitalist meritocracy seems delusional.

Also, I would not lecture a string theorist on math if I didn't know algebra. Scientific racism is based on opinions and faulty axioms. Climate change denial ignores 1st year chemistry. Dissecting capitalism beyond it rules or sucks requires competency in math, and complex derivative relationships. Even arguing politics with academic leftists without having the capability to read advanced political theory is an act of narcissism or contrarianism. They can't know their positions fundamental proofs and rationale. A person who is unqualified for jobs that require critical thinking, math, teaching or valuable trade skills and finds themselves in a position where illegal immigration threatens their ability to find work lack the scientific and technical maturity required to glean more than superficial aspects of concepts in science. Like bragging about how good you are at quantum physics if you can't do math. This makes a person highly susceptible to incorrect information, irrational fears and propaganda. I find nearly all right wingers in a category of having superficial pseudoscientific political arguments drowned in plutocratic propaganda. Invariably they consider themselves dark web intellectuals, but are scared of not being able to compete with non English illegals, societies skin pigmentation darkening and their white burger culture which is clearly bottom shelf.

Eli Rivera
Eli Rivera

Nice try.
Why should I care about the feeling of people that want to slaughter millions? Telling them they’re not white doesn’t make me accept their bullshit theories on race.
It’s like telling an edgy teenager that’s always encouraging others to commit suicide to do it first.

Elijah Flores
Elijah Flores

If you’re feeling are hurt by the “you’re not white” meme. You’re either a Nazi, or a dumb latent racist. If you read any theory these types of things wouldn’t bother you.

Camden Campbell
Camden Campbell

Finally, I'd suggest this kind of essentialism is compatible with Marxism since biology is essentially a material condition that is shaped by and expressed within other matierlal conditions.
Hey we agree on this. Now produce a list of all the alleles that make a “white” person. Not loci, not haplogroups, the actual alleles. The whole human genome has been mapped and since you say race is so deterministic it should be easy to find these white alleles. Somehow you Nazis can never produce this list.

Austin Morris
Austin Morris

That's why I firmly believe right wing white nationalist political beliefs produce nothing of value. Not for anyone let alone white people. They don't know what they're even fucking doing for their material conditions. It's all reaction and cheesy propaganda with no actual understanding. They basically give away their wealth and suck porkies dick for I.O.U.'s.

Easton Powell
Easton Powell

This is the part where you explain how Hitler looked Jewish, while at the same time you accuse me of being a Nazi.

If you’re feeling are hurt
Can you point to something I've written that makes you think my feelings are hurt?

I'm trying to say that if you try to beat right-wing types in their own game, like an user in this thread suggested, all you're doing is confirming their notions of 'race'. If you admit to them that 'race' as they understand it exists, then it becomes irrelevant which 'race' is 'better'. Better is relative, and there are qualities in each 'race' you can pick out to make that 'race' appear superior. The best tactic is not to engage in that sort of thing, and just outright reject their ideas about 'race'.

This guy said it well, . But something tells me you haven't read the thread but decided to respond to the OP.

Nathan Russell
Nathan Russell

The idea of "white" and "black" is indeed retarded, but there are races, they're just smaller and more specific. Like you mentioned, Kenyan and Moroccan, Slavic and Germanic etc. Theyre basically the same thing as subspecies in Nature. Can interbreed but have specific adaptations for their home environments.

Preserving genetic diversity is the central point of nationalism. No different from preserving the red squirrel and the grey. If everyone on earth mixed together it wouldn't be diverse, everyone would look the same and have the same empty materialistic-capitalist culture.

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Kevin Foster
Kevin Foster

Of course a few different coloured tufts of fur and slightly different habitat is enough for biologists to subspeciate animals, but it's considered insane to suggest groups of hominids that have been separated for tens if not hundreds of thousands of years across continents aren't all in one subspecies.

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Jayden Walker
Jayden Walker

This is the part where you explain how Hitler looked Jewish, while at the same time you accuse me of being a Nazi.
This was to highlight that Nazism race theory was hypocritical from the jump.
Can you point to something I've written that makes you think my feelings are hurt?
The fact that you care about Nazis feelings, and believe anyone but them buys into their crap.
I'm trying to say that if you try to beat right-wing types in their own game, like an user in this thread suggested, all you're doing is confirming their notions of 'race'.
You’re not, and you’re Nazi butt hurt that the “you’re not white theme” divides Nazis because it forces them to review ‘’’what is white by Nazi standards’’’ and since most Americans are decedents of poor Eastern Europeans that immigrated from the 1800s and not rich Anglos that found the US in the 1700s, it turns out their own ideology calls for their death.
Forcing them to either abandon Nazism, or more hilariously get into fights with other Nazis.

Cooper Turner
Cooper Turner

Make a list of the alleles that consistute the white subspecies then.

Gavin King
Gavin King

Yes

Landon Thompson
Landon Thompson

*and you’re a Nazi butt hurt that the “you’re not white theme” divides Nazis

Ian Hughes
Ian Hughes

If everyone on earth mixed together it wouldn't be diverse, everyone would look the same
No, that's stupid. Look at varities of people of the same 'race', what makes you think that Humans could ever breed themselves into 'looking the same'?
and have the same empty materialistic-capitalist culture.
Ha! Adding that to the end doesn't make your analysis 'leftist' or you a 'leftist'. You /pol/ types need to lurk moar, you stand out. 1st pic related is you.

The fact that you care about Nazis feelings, and believe anyone but them buys into their crap.
Again, point to something I've written that made you think I care about 'feelings', Nazi or otherwise.
You’re not,
Tell me what I had for breakfast, because obviously I wouldn't know that either.
and you’re Nazi butt hurt that the “you’re not white theme” divides Nazis because it forces them to review
Yes, because right-wingers and /pol/acks are known for their introspection, self-criticism and re-evaluation of their positions, at which they arrived through reason and logic.
it turns out their own ideology calls for their death.
Forcing them to either abandon Nazism, or more hilariously get into fights with other Nazis.
<2nd pic related
You're a fool to think that they are about 'racial purity' and 'race' beyond their memes, dog whistles and ideology. Push come to shove, a /pol/ack will side with someone from China or Africa if they also believe in the superiority of the 'white race'.

When you engage them in their game, you become like them. If an objective observer saw you arguing with a /pol/ack about which 'race' is better that observer would come to the conclusion that you're both racists, and rightly so. The only way to win is not to play.

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Isaiah Gray
Isaiah Gray

If races dont exist then how do you explain their genetic differences, skull shape, skin color, hair, height, ect? I genuinely want to know

Wyatt Gomez
Wyatt Gomez

Preserving genetic diversity is the central point of nationalism. No different from preserving the red squirrel and the grey.
Races mixing with each other isn't going to reduce the amount of genes. To the contrary, it will expand local gene pools significantly.
But that's nitpicking. Your actual argument is stupid as well. The reason we like biodiversity in nature is,
1. We think animals are cute and want to preserve the different variations.
2. It's important to maintain a healthy ecology.
Neither make much sense when applied to humans.
Maybe you think having humans in different colors is cute, but contrary to what's the case with animals, this interest strongly contradicts other human interests. Such as being able to have kids with the people you like, which is enormously more important.
If everyone on earth mixed together it wouldn't be diverse, everyone would look the same and have the same empty materialistic-capitalist culture.
No they wouldn't. You absolute dolt. There's plenty of phenotypic variation within races and the sharing of genes would only increase this. "Empty materialistic-capitalist culture" is the result of capitalism, not of race-mixing. Go back to /pol/.

Christopher Barnes
Christopher Barnes

their
Whose?
genetic differences, skull shape, skin color, hair, height, ect?
Different genes?

Eli Hernandez
Eli Hernandez

Also, you completely dodged my point which was that the categories themselves (white, black, asian, etc.) are extremely broad and end up grouping differing populations and haplogroups
Yes, and i tell you that this is irrelevant. The study assumes that a random amount of populations exist (in this case 3, and up to 7 in other runs). Participants have to look at these K races and choose what race they belong to. The overlap between what the algorithm assumes is your race, and their own choice has an overlap of about 99%. So it dosent matter that you say the populations are "extremly broad", people still know what they are, and algorithms can quantify it.

What the fuck does 'Life is a bell curve' even mean?
Maybe you should read a book with a similar title about it.
What implications of evolution? We can't read your mind, you have to say what you mean.
Diffrent populations that live in seperate environments will evolve into even more diffrent populations. You can call these populations "race", "creed" or whatever the fuck you want to, but they still exist, because thats how evolution works. So if you go around and say "race dosent exist" you basically need assume that either
A) Humans didnt evolve
or B) human populations throughout time all shared the exact same environment
Yes, very precise and science-y.
Now produce a list of all the alleles that make a “white” person.
Nigga read the fucking report or fuck off and spout your braindead creationism elsewhere

Adrian Ortiz
Adrian Ortiz

read 'Guns, Germs and Steel'

Easton Brooks
Easton Brooks

Your Brain doesn't exist. A Niger stay a Niger and a White Men is still White.
Look on the Nigeroues Lips or Asian close eyes how do not see in High Definition.

Leo Lee
Leo Lee

Maybe you should read a book with a similar title about it.
read the fucking report
<read what the people I get my opinions from have said they read!
Why should anyone read what you haven't? Your inability to write meaningful statements and your persistent vague references to 'books with similar titles' to what we're talking about speak loudly about your knowledge on the issue. As does your poor understanding of the evolutionary process.
Diffrent populations that live in seperate environments will evolve into even more diffrent populations. You can call these populations "race", "creed" or whatever the fuck you want to, but they still exist, because thats how evolution works.
No one is saying differences between people don't exist. People in the Caribbean are prone to a genetic disease called 'sickle cell anemia', which incidentally makes them immune to malaria. Most of the planet is lactose-intolerant (pic related). No one is disputing that there are physiological differences between people. Mutations also happen.

What we are disputing is that you cannot make generalised statements about perceived 'races' because there is more to people than just their skin colour. If you made the claim that you can, then you have to provide proof beyond 'read a book', because no one is going to do the work for you.

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Michael Nguyen
Michael Nguyen

make a thread called "race does not exist"
<actually they do exist
you cant just say races exist without evidence!
<ok, here is evidence
lol you clearly havent read it so why should i bother with it!?
also certain populations are more prone to genetic diseases
but also you cant make group generalisations because there is more to people than just their color
but also no one is disputing that there are physiological differences between people
but also these physiological diffrences dont do anything

James Richardson
James Richardson

Your retarded rhetoric just enables fascist hatred and rage which is used to fuel their ideology. Read some anthropology before spewing that liberal BS

Brody Ward
Brody Ward

The idea of "white" and "black" is indeed retarded, but there are races, they're just smaller and more specific
Calling these groups "races" is both pointless and inherently revisionist, though. You're changing what race means just so you can argue about it.

David Wilson
David Wilson

ethnicity isn't phenotype. from wiki:
An ethnic group or an ethnicity is a category of people who identify with each other based on similarities such as common ancestry, language, history, society, culture or nation.

Colton Reed
Colton Reed

That defines a nation though (while ironically stating nation is in there), not an ethnicity. WIkipedia is just wrong here.

Bentley Martin
Bentley Martin

<actually they do exist
difference in genetics means different races
Then every single person on the planet would be its own race. Is that what you want?
<ok, here is evidence
lol you clearly havent read it so why should i bother with it!?
Yes, that's how it works. You can't just point to a whole fucking book and say "there's the evidence". You have to quote relevant parts that support your statements. Precision is key. All you do is make vague claims and point to books as if that really means anything. You obviously haven't read an academic paper in your life.
also certain populations are more prone to genetic diseases
but also you cant make group generalisations because there is more to people than just their color
certain populations
race
'Certain populations' doesn't mean race. Because the people in the Caribbean more prone to sickle cell anemia have the same pigment as certain populations in Africa and North America who don't share the same propensity towards sickle cell anemia.
but also no one is disputing that there are physiological differences between people
but also these physiological diffrences dont do anything
Of course they do. It's just that these physiological differences have nothing to do with skin colour whatsoever, they're not caused by skin colour, but by differences in genes. You cannot use the pigment of a person's skin to make judgments about them.

Evan Allen
Evan Allen

Seems like you missed this

Charles Torres
Charles Torres

Then every single person on the planet would be its own race. Is that what you want?
There is an interesting point that there is more genetic variation within an ethnic population that between ethnic populations.

Hudson Wilson
Hudson Wilson

Americans are the same race as you and me

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Lincoln Jenkins
Lincoln Jenkins

You delusional fucking retard, race exists, and it should be pretty fucking obvious with a little observation, also nobody in Europe refers to themselves as “white” thats a catch all term made up by mystery meat Americans. Europeans needed land, and resources to fuel their growing populations, and industries, Africa was a giant continent full of resources, and farmable land, and it was mostly uninhabited, Europeans would have simply purchased resources if they could, but sub Saharan Africans are literally considered mentally retarded even today, and back then I’m certain they wouldn’t have been looked at as much more than your average local fauna, they didn’t even know of the resources they stood on, and they didn’t bother farming, mining, refining or building any great cities aside from a couple walls several thousand years ago, you think Europeans are just going to sit at home when their was absolutely nothing holding them back? Don’t be a spastic, the sub Saharan’s justified their own invasion, and without European intervention, sub Saharan Africans would still be sitting in the dirt stabbing each other with wooden spears. A race is created over time when a group of individuals get separated from the larger group, and this minority begins to develop, and evolve for their specific environment until they become distinct enough that they could be considered a separate people. If you start mixing races you’ll end up with those abominations in the Americas.

Anthony Bell
Anthony Bell

The point that user was trying to make was that at what point is the red-orange more red than orange or more orange than red, especially in regards to how society catagorizes them.

Why does that matter?

Nathaniel Sanders
Nathaniel Sanders

race
exists
despite repeated and constant affirmation to the contrary by actual science and scientists
you are dumb as fuck my man

Aiden Hernandez
Aiden Hernandez

communism
works
despite repeated and constant affirmation to the contrary by actual economic reality and economic scientists

Josiah Morris
Josiah Morris

too stupid to understand science
has to respond with non sequitur

Cameron Hall
Cameron Hall

despite repeated and constant affirmation to the contrary by actual science and scientists
You cant just make shit up.

Lincoln Collins
Lincoln Collins

muh sciendific cobudism
lol
trying to ban me for laughing at you
LMAO

Brandon Ross
Brandon Ross

AT LAST I TRULY SEE

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Nicholas Kelly
Nicholas Kelly

Participants have to look at these K races and choose what race they belong to. The overlap between what the algorithm assumes is your race, and their own choice has an overlap of about 99%. So it dosent matter that you say the populations are "extremely broad", people still know what they are, and algorithms can quantify it.
You completely side stepped my point again. The study in its conclusion states that the categorizations are largely based on how current population and clusters are divided out. It does not deny the specific haplogroups I mentioned before, merely combines many of them into K-races to simplify the groupings for the study. I stated race combines ancestrally differing population somewhat arbitrarily for simplicity, and then your only answer is that "But this study uses K-groupings for simplicity". I doin't get what your trying to say here besides that we use K-groupings for studies, which doesn't justify race as a social category which I mentioned before.
Diffrent populations that live in seperate environments will evolve into even more diffrent populations. You can call these populations "race", "creed" or whatever the fuck you want to, but they still exist, because thats how evolution works. So if you go around and say "race dosent exist" you basically need assume that either
A) Humans didnt evolve or B) human populations throughout time all shared the exact same environment
I literally talked about the conflation you are making right now here . We do not deny different genetic markers or haplotypes or the K-groupings done for studies. We only question the societal categorization of race, as in the arbitrary cultural line drawing of who is "white, black, asian, etc". For example, your study mentions a substantial amount of European ancestry in the South Asian population but culturally South Asians are grouped with Asians as a whole rather then as opposed to Eastern European who are viewed as European (usually) despite also having mixed ancestry.
If everyone on earth mixed together it wouldn't be diverse, everyone would look the same and have the same empty materialistic-capitalist culture.
That is not how genetics work. Very white skinned or dark skinned people would not disappear because genes are not mixable like that as I alluded to here . Skin types would only disappear if there was immense environmental and genetic pressure making certain skin types adverse to survival (as in, people with lighter and darker skin literally died and never reproduced with anyone). "Mixed" reproduction still retains the genotypes for either skin color and probability wise the light and dark skinned people would still make up sizable portions of the population.

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Charles Hill
Charles Hill

Don't worry about us. Your children will judge you for your naive apologism for the capitalist class who's making bank on ruining your purchasing power, your political power and the only planet you're currently able to live on. Your kind will be remembered as the biggest cucks of all

Jaxson Ortiz
Jaxson Ortiz

You're doing the conflation that I said you types always do here . We are talking about two very different types of "race" here. You are using K-groupings as a way to justify the broad social categorization of races which is what that user has a problem with. K-groupings are done in scientific studies to simplify data collection and organization. They are not intended to be used as a proxy for social categorizations and it does not deny specific haplotypes. When you send in your genetic data to be analyzed in-depth for ancestry, your genetic data isn't just broken up into general categories like an extremely basic test would. It is broken down into probable percentages of Y Haplogroupings and also tries to discern the different groups your ancestry may contain (NW, RU, SC, etc). The second part is pretty difficult and usually requires further information to be provided to make it more accurate, but usually you will be able to acquire a more specific breakup.

Connor Gutierrez
Connor Gutierrez

It'll make them feel weak. That's what you want. Fascists react to perceived dominance.

Joseph Gomez
Joseph Gomez

2846612
and back then I’m certain they wouldn’t have been looked at as much more than your average local fauna, they didn’t even know of the resources they stood on, and they didn’t bother farming, mining, refining or building any great cities aside from a couple walls several thousand years ago
The reason development was so stunted was actually the fact that they couldn't engage in large scale agricultural farming even if the wanted to. The land was completely unsuitable save for a few places and there were no large tamable draft animals to utilize meaning that they had to rely strictly on human labor. You can't eat diamonds and metal, and you can't even get to those things without first developing some kind sustainable food source. The kingdoms that did exist and flourish did so by both selling off human labor to other countries with arable lands and then using the food gained to try to create a base upon which the further development could occur (so a pseudo-slave society with the slaves used as a commodity rather then to farm/work). These kingdoms collapsed however and development stunted when colonialism began and the possibility of obtaining a stage of development where slave-society was unnecessary ended. Colonialism actually killed any possibility for further development to occur and those kingdoms to move into another historical stage.
inb4 moralist outrage about slave society
Slavery is bad when it is no longer necessary. Until then however, it is part of the necessary historical process to move forward.

Sebastian Wood
Sebastian Wood

I stated race combines ancestrally differing population somewhat arbitrarily for simplicity, and then your only answer is that "But this study uses K-groupings for simplicity". I doin't get what your trying to say here besides that we use K-groupings for studies, which doesn't justify race as a social category which I mentioned before.
Lets put it like this: if for whatever reason the "white, black, etc." race model was never invented and people were talking about "sky, earth, and wind" races, then i wouldnt sit here and defend the former. Where the lines are drawn is arbitrary, but also not important. The "white, black, etc." races is what people understand, and who belongs to those groups can be measured quite well. It works in the real world. So i dont see any reason why talking about the classical races should be dismissed.
South Asians are grouped with Asians as a whole rather then as opposed to Eastern European who are viewed as European (usually) despite also having mixed ancestry.
If i had to guess its because using only 3 clusters tends to group people together more than it should. And if this is true regardless of how many clusters used, then it still dosent seem like that big of a deal anyway.

Dylan Flores
Dylan Flores

Where the lines are drawn is arbitrary, but also not important.
Then culturally, why keep them? Not talking about K-groupings here, just purely the societal divisions of race.
The "white, black, etc." races is what people understand, and who belongs to those groups can be measured quite well.
What "people understand" is not reality. We can also measure specific Y-haplotypes quite well,
It works in the real world.
Everything "works in the real world" when people are conditioned from birth to categorize that way

Christopher Carter
Christopher Carter

does this mean i can say the n word again?

Joseph Morales
Joseph Morales

only if you beep yourself

Ryan Brown
Ryan Brown

If race doesn't exist then it's not racist to say the "nigger" word.

Austin Hall
Austin Hall

don't say the niggerword

Ayden Russell
Ayden Russell

I'M GOING TO SAY THE NIGGER WORD

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Tyler Phillips
Tyler Phillips

did you just say the nigger word?

Luis Parker
Luis Parker

All I know is people with dark skin tend to be retards.

Michael Sanchez
Michael Sanchez

I didnt make the rules. Personally i dont really care that much about it either way. To a certain extend judging someone by their race can give you a very rough notion of who youre dealing with, but factors like Autism Level, looks or just having a conversation are much better.
However for some reason a lot of people care about race. You cant just ignore that. When looking at what people find the most important, then race/immigration is always in the top 5. You wont convince race realists or nazis to give up their model of reality because the premise is slightly arbitrary.
Everything "works in the real world" when people are conditioned from birth to categorize that way
But what people are conditioned into isnt completly arbitrary. Children dont get conditioned into the art of blood sacrifices for space penguins because it makes no fucking sense. Teaching them something that is grounded in reality and has predictive validity is a completly diffrent story.

Owen Butler
Owen Butler

YOU ARE LIKE CHILD, WATCH THIS

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Benjamin Bell
Benjamin Bell

However for some reason a lot of people care about race. You cant just ignore that. When looking at what people find the most important, then race/immigration is always in the top 5. You wont convince race realists or nazis to give up their model of reality because the premise is slightly arbitrary.
Well it's more then slightly arbitary when we look at who and who isn't defined as a certain group, but that's besides the point. People just believing in something doesn't validate it. Their "feelings", like feelings in general, are of little consequence to me.
But what people are conditioned into isnt completly arbitrary. Children dont get conditioned into the art of blood sacrifices for space penguins because it makes no fucking sense. Teaching them something that is grounded in reality and has predictive validity is a completly diffrent story.
Well, in regard to equally ridiculous things in the past, they kind of were and sometimes still are. Like we discussed before, it's not really grounded in reality unless we are talking about analyzing in a lab specific Y-haplogroups and you even stated yourself the predictive validity is farcical, especially in comparison to actual conversation.

Jaxson Barnes
Jaxson Barnes

People just believing in something doesn't validate it. Their "feelings", like feelings in general, are of little consequence to me.
They should be a concern of yours if you want to persuade people into marxism. A lot (and in my experience most) people are more concerned with racial problems, rather than economic ones. And these types think the economy would be fine anyway without immigrants
it's not really grounded in reality unless we are talking about analyzing in a lab specific Y-haplogroups
See this is your problem. Your everyday person dosent give to shits about Y-haplogroups. Even if you explain to him that the divisions between races are somewhat arbitrary and better categorisations exist, they still wont give a shit. We are talking about gut feelings and instincts. And these instincts dont exist because of some random conditioning, otherwise algorithms couldnt predict somones race.

Nicholas Nelson
Nicholas Nelson

Race is the foundation and pinnacle upon which right wing ideology is built.

Economic exploitation and abuse of power is the foundation and pinnacle upon which left wing ideology is built.

Race has no DNA evidence of variation, but is largely defined as the minority skin pigmentation and hair color in a social system. In a global system race is defined as skin pigmentation, language and color. It can be arbitrary and built off of who is fashionable for the majority to project group hate on. It's a faulty concept.

Telling right wingers that race is a faulty concept used by oligarchs to control them will produce the same effect of telling a Christian that Jesus is a symbolic character used by Churches to scare them into donating their wages to clergy that control them. It will produce a whole lot of proselytizing, and pseudoscientific arguments like "monkeys prove evolution doesn't exist" but rather "evolution made them different DNA" which are both false statements.

Alexander Cox
Alexander Cox

And these instincts dont exist because of some random conditioning, otherwise algorithms couldnt predict somones race.
Are you talking about the study? Because the algorithm in the study wasn't premptivly predicting race.

Christopher Clark
Christopher Clark

Proto humans were brown not white not black not yellow or red.

Jace Morales
Jace Morales

proto humans were actually chocolate

Oliver Ramirez
Oliver Ramirez

Chocolate can never acquire aabbcc lower cases

Nicholas Wood
Nicholas Wood

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Asher Powell
Asher Powell

if god doesn't exist it isn't theist to pray to god
what is mutation?
I noticed the same about race realists.

Ethan Thomas
Ethan Thomas

Adaptation you mean?
Cause no mutation will give extra melanin.

Lucas Harris
Lucas Harris

If melanin doesn't matter, how come taking melanotan II makes people super horny?

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Evan Torres
Evan Torres

Right wing retard here. You are right that race is a social construct, because the term "white" isn't rigidly defined. Who defines themselves as white, and who is seen as white, depends on the conditions of society (demographics, popularity of the term, etc.)

BUT, the differences in human biodiversity is undeniable! All you have to do is observe generally, their countries, their attitudes and their behavior.

1) You answered your own question. Society decides.
2) These are statistically insignificant. Exceptions and outliers are always statistically unimportant. That's just general statistics.
2a) That's just it, they are GENERALIZATIONS. They work on a general level. The larger group you get, the more accurate it is.
3) Racial statistics ARE useful. You can use all the statistics about Chicago you want, the stats about black crime prove that blacks, in general, commit more violent crime. NOT using racial statistics is like trying to solve a puzzle without all the pieces and being like "WTF why this doesnt work????"

Race is REAL you stupid fag.

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Sebastian Edwards
Sebastian Edwards

wrong

Wyatt Hall
Wyatt Hall

Mutation is a mechanism that can result in adaptation. A mutation can give extra melanin.

Oliver Cox
Oliver Cox

Statistics
Can right wingers even do arithmetic? I struggle to believe they even understand math let alone statistics. Then using demographics, a liberal arts study, to try and scientifically prove race is anything more than stereotypes of minority cultures is a good kek. They would literally need race to be a thing, because literally the only things they have to be proud of is how good at bootlicking blue lives matter they are and their skin color. Considering all the money billionaires pay to platform white nationalist culture warriors and race realists I would say the right wing is permanently doomed to be porky shills. All that effort they give truly is destined to amount to nothing but broken promises from their favorite right wing politicians.

Carter Parker
Carter Parker

Again are you 100% sure it's not Adaptation?
And if so provide examples of such cases
where "mutation gives extra melanin".
Mutations ONLY destroy the information stored as a code made up of 4 chemical bases.

Lincoln Williams
Lincoln Williams

The point in saying that race is a social construct is not to deny the biodiversity which gave rise to race, but to say that those differing qualities are of no importance.

Ayden Reyes
Ayden Reyes

the mental gymnastics in this thread is amazing, even you people don't believe your own bullshit

race realism and human biodiversity is incontrovertible. step out of your all white suburban college town for a change.

Benjamin Richardson
Benjamin Richardson

that joke wasn't funny at all, where's the baboon part?

Lucas Gomez
Lucas Gomez

Are you saying you reject Darwinian evolution or do you just not believe in Darwinian evolution?
step out of your all white suburban college town for a change.
In other words, your position is based entirely on anecdotal experience with black people in your neighborhood. Somehow that's supposed to be convincing to us.
Here's a question: Have you ever tried looking for structural reasons for the things you've seen? What assures you that the behaviors are innate rather than learned?

Robert Murphy
Robert Murphy

All you have to do is observe generally, their countries, their attitudes and their behavior.
This is the most telling part about race realist rhetoric. Absolutely NO ONE denies that there are differences in "attitudes and behavior" between "white" and "black" populations. It's obvious. What isn't obvious is the CAUSES of this difference. Is this innate to their "race" or a result of environmental differences? The consensus today is that it's environmental.

Not that this whole conversation is worth anything. I just wanted to point out how you're shutting down your basic brain functions in order to maintain your hateful ideology.

Carson Rogers
Carson Rogers

race realism and human biodiversity is incontrovertible
It's psuedo that porks use to turn right wingers into willful cuckolds and take their money

Learn actual fucking science before you just make shit up and call it a fact. Your ignorance is economically fucking over everybody.

Jacob Bell
Jacob Bell

not that guy, but where is your proof? proof to me that such a thing as races among humans exist and why i should care?

Jordan King
Jordan King

porky hasn't been racist the 60s and has been flooding our nations with non white immigrants to drive down wages since forever. the only porky shill is you. you are the one who needs to "learn actual fucking science" I suggest you start with variation of human cranial capacity as proof that race is way more than just skin color.

Michael Price
Michael Price

porky uses race to divide actually

Ethan Morris
Ethan Morris

porky shills multiculturalism and diversity and fires/locks up anybody who dares to speak against it

Chase Lopez
Chase Lopez

yeah, they use idpol disguised as diversity to divide people

Grayson Harris
Grayson Harris

you act as porkies are a monolith. of course they class interests specific to porkies, but saying they as group stopped being racist in the 60s is bs. there were tons of racist porkies fighting the civil rights movement and funding their opposition.
then you say porkie is flooding europe with immigrants as if that were their interest in the middle east and not control over markets were valuable recources are being traded. as if porkies, or capital, cares about any political agenda. they only care about profit maximation.

Nathaniel Kelly
Nathaniel Kelly

the reason capitalists use mulicultural/progressive undertones is to make progressives buy their products. just as they catered to religion in religious markets or nationalism in nationalist markets. its only branding , tactic. progressive undertones in branding didnt create progressive ppl, it was the other way around. consumers in markets demanded products catering to their self image, and thats what was supplied to them.

Lincoln Davis
Lincoln Davis

more or less always based on opinion?
Yes. A lot of scientific classifications (especially nomenclature like subspecies) are more for convenience than an actual, discrete properties of the universe. The only ones who care about subspecies are those who study a particular animal and need to quickly distinguish between two populations that are able to reproduce with one another. There are species less diverse than humans that can receive subspecies labels, so the precedent has been established that humans could be divided into groups with different nomenclature, BUT no one but racists give a shit. For example: an ichthyologist doesn't give a flying fuck about whether or not the Wisconsin racoon should be classified as a different subspecies than the Michigan racoon because they have slightly darker stripes or slightly longer tails. Racists have this bizarre fantasy that if they could convince the world to classify people according to their own race system then everyone would magically become "woke" and hate everyone else not of their arbitrarily defined race. Like suddenly interracial marriage will become illegal because having sex with a subspecies would be bestiality and all black people would be put in zoos or whatever. It's the same childish mentality that made people upset when Pluto wasn't defined as a planet anymore; nothing about the floating ball of ice actually changed because a bunch of apes millions of miles away call it something slightly different. Arguing with /pol/acks over human classification is an exercise in futility because the outcome ultimately doesn't matter; it's like a child asking you "why" over and over again and when you finally give up they declare they've won somehow. If they want to spend their free time looking for ways humans are slightly different from each other, it doesn't really matter, no one opinion's going to be changed because they've learned they have a different SNP of OCA2 than their neighbor.

And if so provide examples of such cases where "mutation gives extra melanin"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanism
Mutations ONLY destroy the information
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insertion_(genetics)

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Bentley Reyes
Bentley Reyes


Are you dodging my question not to give examples where mutations give melanin?

Carter Scott
Carter Scott

I was going to say that I don't know when those mutations happen, but that this doesn't matter to my argument. The fact that there is ANY variation in melanin contents (or even that melanin exists at all) indicates that mutations can cause such variations.

But I realized that that's incorrect. It's literally the most common and visible mutation you'll be able to find. You have such mutations all over your body. They're called "moles."
Want a source for this claim? ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4609613/
BRAF mutations were first described in 2003 (Pollock et al., 2003), with 81.5% (53 of 65) of acquired nevi studied harboring a BRAF mutation. Since this report, many benign acquired melanocytic nevi have been analyzed, and 78% (373/478) were found to have a BRAF mutation; an NRAS mutation was found in only 6.0% (8/134) of acquired melanocytic nevi (Table 2).
They've determined that mutations in the BRAF gene are responsible for approximately 78% of acquired moles.

You're an idiot.

Blake Richardson
Blake Richardson

Again, we must outright reject their hierarchical categorisation of 'races'.

Jarred Diamond a man that denies race but believes his tribe is race would would, without an ounce of cognitive dissonance, disagree and agree with you.

Easton Parker
Easton Parker

Ironic because it's just traditional idpol (whites good, non-whites bad) but inverted to deal with material conditions. The effect is the same. It makes people feel good without actually materially addressing grievances. Even if they do provide material benefits it's always done along racial lines to reinforce idpol (again, identical to how the pre-1970s state used to deal out resources except with non-whites receiving the direct aid in the form of policies like AA and the like, though I suspect the aggregate amount of wealth redistribution has actually decreased substantially.)

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Carter Reed
Carter Reed

—"claims mutation can result in adaptation"
Implying mutations are beneficial?
Your skin doesn't need mutations to tan you know?

—-"moles"
More like skin cancer.

—-"Any variation in melanin caused by mutation"
YES mutations can cause variation but they can't be solely responsible for the long-term melanin content, diet also plays a big role as well as sun UVA Radiation levels(climate).
—-Melanin exists = Mutations cause variation?
—-No you're an idiot.

Charles James
Charles James

Implying mutations are beneficial?
They sometimes are. That's what drives evolution.
Your skin doesn't need mutations to tan you know?
Again, are you rejecting Darwinian evolution? Your tan being passed on is textbook Lamarckianism.
According to modern genetics you could maybe pass on tan via epigenetic markers, but those make no change to the genetic code and last at most a few generations. Also, I don't know how the tan from your skin would reach the gametes. We know from experience that tan is limited to skin that's exposed to the sun.
More like skin cancer.
You call it "cancer" when it has a tendency to spread uncontrollably throughout the body. Moles aren't cancer, they're benign tumors.
"Benign melanocytic nevi" is the medical term for common moles. It's what the study is about.
YES mutations can cause variation but they can't be solely responsible for the long-term melanin content, diet also plays a big role as well as sun UVA Radiation levels(climate).
What do you mean by "solely responsible?" Mutations are what initially causes the variation. Diet and UV light are selective pressures determining which mutations survive and get to be passed on. They didn't have sunscreen and vitamin supplements back in the day. Fair skin in Africa got you skin cancer and made you die, unable to pass on your mutation. Dark skin in Europe gave you vitamin D deficiency and made you die. It's called natural selection. This is elementary school level evolutionary biology.

Kevin Wood
Kevin Wood

(me)
Here's a video to help you understand evolutionary theory a bit better: youtube.com/watch?v=hOfRN0KihOU
It's a very good video. Especially pay attention to the part where they explain the vital importance mutation has. You can't have new adaptions without mutation. At most you can have new combinations, which is what the pic you posted illustrated.

Juan King
Juan King

The only thing right wing parties have to offer is heirarchy and race dog whistles. The Plutocratic classes that fund and control right wing parties offer strict heirarchies which suits them, and minority culture warfare which enforces class heirarchies. This is all basic misdirection 101 while the right wing politicians set about corrupting municipal governments and pushing paid for legislation through commitees in the dark away from the public eye. It works too! Just look at the mess of Zion Don israeli shill Trump whom white nationalists are perfectly happy to let him push a government of money, for the ultra rich, run by ultra rich just to hear a couple of his dog whistles. Pathetic!

Leo Roberts
Leo Roberts

Too many ex-/pol/yps here.

John Butler
John Butler

If whites are so superior, why can't Nazi science answer this simple question?

Jonathan James
Jonathan James

race is just a social construct lmao
try transplanting a white person's organs in a half-black/half-asian person with the same blood type and tell me the body is rejecting it because of social pressure.

Easton Parker
Easton Parker

try transplanting a white person's organs in a half-black/half-asian person with the same blood type and tell me the body is rejecting it because of social pressure.
Read the thread before you type faggot . This is the forth time you've made this conflation. We do not deny haplotypes and genetics and never have.

Leo Nelson
Leo Nelson

Define "social construct" in your own words without looking it up.

Evan Wood
Evan Wood

forth
*Fourth

Gavin Edwards
Gavin Edwards

Literally anything made by humans.

Ethan Jenkins
Ethan Jenkins

race doesn't exist
that is - if you only define race by phenotype
which no one does
but of course race exists genetically
but, like, as a social construct
hot take you got there lmao

Isaac Sullivan
Isaac Sullivan

that is - if you only define race by phenotype
which no one does
When you judge someone race do you do this in a fucking genetics laboratory or what?

Brody Butler
Brody Butler

A spook

Mason Wilson
Mason Wilson

Read and If you even read the thread, you would know that the problem is the arbitrary lines drawn to define race in society (white, black, etc.). Again, the Kazan people and the Nenets share a bunch of ancestry and have a similar haplogroup distribution with other groups which would be considered "white", but they would never be considered such by society and you'd be hard pressed to find someone label them as such if you showed them a picture. Again, you do this conflation to make the claim seem ridiculous without looking at what we mean by it.

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Samuel Cruz
Samuel Cruz

Not the guy you're responding to, but the important word is "just." Something being a social construct doesn't tell us anything. Everything we refer to is a social construct, by the mere fact that we refer to it. Naming things is a social act.

What people mean when they say "just a social construct" is a concept that can be traced to mistaken social conventions rather than a true understanding of reality.

Eli Rogers
Eli Rogers

muh continuum fallacy
All words are social constructs and giving a label to anything physical is an arbitrary construct to some extent. It's not worth anyone's time to purity spiral into another pedantic argument about sociolinguistic trends in human phenotyping. We all know "white" and "black" are poor categories. We all know there are differences between haplogroups that manifest in intelligence and behavioral tendency. Just sage this thread to death already.

Joshua Long
Joshua Long

Correction "White isn't a race", Indians, Europeans and Middle Easterners are all Caucasoid. This doesn't mean I don't support European preservation, however, it should be noted that this is just a Jewish divide and conquer trick.

Juan Taylor
Juan Taylor

If you put Indians in Sweden for 10,000 years, their decedents will develop white skin, blonde hair and blue eyes.

Lucas Miller
Lucas Miller

but will they develop toilets?

Caleb Gonzalez
Caleb Gonzalez

maybe the jews will build them some, they invented them to steal our shit and toilet paper y'know

Joseph Walker
Joseph Walker

"without feeling guilty" No. Guilt of slaughtering foreign people is a new concept. There was no need to justify something that didn't exist. You can either feel guilty about it and your people die, or you can not feel guilty about it and they die. It's simply one or the other.

Chase Roberts
Chase Roberts

wow what the FUCK man you just cut me with your fucking EDGE keep your fucking EDGY sword in your fucking pocket that was my new JACKET fuck

Carson Stewart
Carson Stewart

This but unironically.

Jordan Brown
Jordan Brown

Jews are white though.
I went to look up who first invented the toilet and the answer is very strange.
How about you have neither die? That's an option. It gets you more people to cooperate with.

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Jonathan Barnes
Jonathan Barnes

That worked when there was only millions of people on the planet, but there is too many of us now. The only way that could work is to populate areas outside of Earth.

Matthew White
Matthew White

They're white and Caucasoid, but they still abuse race to divide and conquer.

Robert Hill
Robert Hill

let's put the jews on the moon

Sebastian Young
Sebastian Young

I'm glad /pol/ gang finally made it to the race thread.

Blake Green
Blake Green

Apologies, I'm new here.

Jayden Parker
Jayden Parker

lol

Charles Cooper
Charles Cooper

youtube.com/watch?v=oVoCKLyt2uw

Julian Robinson
Julian Robinson

Agreed. We are all one people. A fact forgotten on the right and the left. Culture does exist, good and bad ones.

Dominic Thompson
Dominic Thompson

Reproductive rates naturally decline as living conditions improve. Africans wouldn't be getting anywhere near as many children if they weren't living in abject poverty.
Also, instead of murdering billions of innocents, you can try eating less meat. Having to care for all those animals is a massive burden on resources.

Hunter Gutierrez
Hunter Gutierrez

msn.com/en-ca/news/world/dutch-terror-attack-suspect-caught-after-deadly-tram-shooting/ar-BBUUBdw?li=AAggFp4

Another islamist has been having some fun again.
3 people shot dead by a turk and 5 wounded , he apparently used a supressed pistol to shoot unarmed civs.

Also look how the dutch prime minister Mark Rutte(leftist,EU puppet) is just reading his speech of some script , completely un-genuine offcourse as long as the multiculture agenda must be pushed at all cost ,

Carson Brooks
Carson Brooks

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Blake Bailey
Blake Bailey

Pretty mild compared to the shit you guys pulled last week. Right-wing terrorists are at least as much of a threat as Islamists. Although really you're the same thing.

Xavier Turner
Xavier Turner

holy shit is this a packed op
where do you even begin?
just to let you know, economic classes are as real as race and are just a construct
i just call you class realists

Dominic James
Dominic James

what is 9/11
2/10 b8, i replied

Brayden Peterson
Brayden Peterson

Islamists are right-wing terrorists

Tyler James
Tyler James

10,000 years, their decedents will develop white skin, blonde hair and blue eyes.
Would have to be far longer and only in a complete primitive state of nature with no modern technology to keep people from being negatively impacted by the conditions.

Ethan Wilson
Ethan Wilson

Americans still taking revenge for the twin towers
9/11, i clapped

Xavier Lopez
Xavier Lopez

That's what I said, they're the exact same thing.

Jacob Torres
Jacob Torres

we'd need 20 more Brenton terrants (Wotan willing) and even then we'd only be on about even footing in terms of body count. to correct for population we would need 2000 style Brenton tarrants

Alexander Jackson
Alexander Jackson

As if he's the first of these people.
to correct for population
Ah, but you're correcting for the European population. That's wrong. You have to correct for weird Nibelungen creatures.

Leo Ortiz
Leo Ortiz

Based on what? Considering people can get organs from a Pig successfully transplanted into their bodies I don't see your point

Pic related

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Robert Ward
Robert Ward

Also I think it's worthwhile to point out that the term Race was initially used to group people of similar language and nationality before it was used to denote anything genetic which only began in the 17th century

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Tyler Ramirez
Tyler Ramirez

Call it whatever you like, but it's pretty damn obvious that there's significant phenotypical differences between groups of people all across the world.

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Christian Bailey
Christian Bailey

"The birds look similar and have the same color, that means the subspecies must be very close genetically."
"The humans have different colors and look more different, that means they are more genetically different"
"Wtf, why aren't the humans different subspecies"
This is such a brainlet analysis it hurts. Bird subspecies are objectively farther apart genetically when observing their DNA then humans are from each other in regard to different phenotypes. This is what I mean by rightists making a surface analysis of "race". Also,
pretty damn obvious that there's significant phenotypical differences between groups of people all across the world.
No one is shocked by this. I even went somewhat in depth on it and how different groups share similar haplotype groupings and how people have individual genotypes which are expressed as different phenotypes. But this does not determine a subspecies or define a group as a subspecies.

Dominic Johnson
Dominic Johnson

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Benjamin Jackson
Benjamin Jackson

Since this thread seems to,have an abundance of foreward thinkers and intelligent people in the area of genetics, I am curious to know what you anons think about the fact that we humans also share about 50% of our DNA with a Banana

ive read that plants our distant relatives, back from when our species seperated from Eukaryotic cells.

Sounds pretty ridiculous, but I believe it. U?

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Evan Baker
Evan Baker

We are eukaryotes you utter brainlet.

Hudson Sullivan
Hudson Sullivan

Thanks for the update fartbreath

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Luke Wood
Luke Wood

The whole race thing strikes me as fallacious when you go from statistical generalities to the level of the individual. For example, /pol/ says it matters because "other races are dumber than ours", but I could probably find a black trans woman in my city with an intelligence higher than their average Autism Level if I looked hard enough.

Justin Allen
Justin Allen

If race doesn't exist then how can white privilege be real? Don't answer. I already know. Race is real because I see it with my own eyes and can think for myself. Why do you need told what to believe? Think for yourself.

Aaron Hill
Aaron Hill

Please don't fall for linguistic traps and don't get into silly arguments about race.
Everything is a linguistic trap. You need to think not in words but in visual concepts. I can see race. Therefore it exists. No amount of wordplay is going to change that.

Owen Hall
Owen Hall

Race exists. But it depends what you think race is. People disagree on what it means. But I can go out and see white people and black people are clearly different. That two Africans one from Kenya and one from Congo are far more similar to each other than they are to any European.

Ryan Reyes
Ryan Reyes

And conversely two people from any two different European countries are going to be far more similar to each other than the vast difference between a European and any African.

Luke Miller
Luke Miller

I'm not sure where you THINK you are, but this isn't that place. Read more books.

Jacob Russell
Jacob Russell

But then again, while it may be different on a surface level, its just differences in melanin and bone structure, which are almost entirely handed down from parents, rather than being intrinsic to any one "Race".

Robert Peterson
Robert Peterson

lol, you faggots are retarded, if race wasn't objectively real there wouldn't be racism or tribalism…it's funny that you mainly focus these stupid arguments on white supremacists and western SJW's when in fact everyone on planet earth would think you retarded as well. this sort "there's no such thing as race" bullshit is just an example of the over indulgence of western culture that has allowed people to become completely detached from reality….try traveling to a country where they actually, deeply hate you because of your race and try explaining this shit to them and see how far you get.

only here can we be so detached from reality that we think there's no difference between men and women or there's no such thing as race. it's fucking hilarious and no one but your little circle jerk takes you seriously.

tribalism is inherent to humanity, always has been, always will be, race is real whether you like it or not or whatever sort of mental gymnastics you come up with, people know what they see.

Logan King
Logan King

Africa is really big and really diverse, to the point where the difference biologically and culturally between different parts of Africa is almost like talking about a whole different race.

OP is obviously a troll because iirc this came right after someone pointed out that "race isn't real" arguments are fucking retarded and socialists shouldn't use them. This stupidity shouldn't be indulged.
Arguments about racial supremacy or tribalism as a reason for civilization are just silly. The nobility of the world tends to see each other as nobles and see the working classes of their societies as lesser. Historically, humans have been bound to their families or their clans, rather than a concept of le race or le nation.

Sebastian Wright
Sebastian Wright

So you argument is that people think race is real, therefore it must be so. Wow. Fucking astounding argument. Clearly you must have spent hours deep in exhaustive scientific research to come to the conclusion you reached in this post, and it wasn't just a knee-jerk emotional reaction at all.

Luke Powell
Luke Powell

family>clan>race>country.
you act like these things are separate.

Noah Brooks
Noah Brooks

"If race isnt real, why are there racists??"
lmao, idk dude im not sure why you hate black people but you do

muh western culture
according to many "race realists" italians and greeks arent white, and theyre the largest contributor to your fake culture.

"Detatched from reality"
yes we are the detached ones

"try traveling to a country where they actually, deeply hate you because of your race and try explaining this shit to them and see how far you get."
Like…. America? Britain? any country in "western culture"?

" it's fucking hilarious and no one but your little circle jerk takes you seriously"
Now this is rich

"tribalism is inherent to humanity, always has been, always will be, race is real whether you like it or not or whatever sort of mental gymnastics you come up with"
Now this is a semblance of an argument. Not an argument itself, but close. Poulantzas and many other marxists have noted that nature of capitalism is more than self-sustaining, but self-aggrandizing and self-legitimizing. It has created a narrative, mostly out of the Scottish school of adam smith, that capitalism has existed externally as its "human nature". Beyond the fact that human nature isnt real either, capitalism evidently thrives under competition i.e. tribalism, and as such, its natural to assume if you think capitalism is human nature, tribalism is too.

The reality is tribalism is an agent of capitalism, which itself is the advancement of feudalism. Neither of them are natural, and your wrong fro thinking so.

Eli Gomez
Eli Gomez

"clan"

MY FUCKING SIDES

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Easton Bell
Easton Bell

lol, what is perception, what is reality? you stupid fuck, go read about what reality is.

tribalism existed long,LONG before capitalism was ever a concept, the original state of man is tribal in nature, what the fuck is wrong with you?

look who i responding to and the words they used dumb fuck, this is why people in western countries think you inferior, do not confuse hate with thinking someone is inferior. despite what the chans would have you think people just don't go around killing minorities all willy nilly like they do in western cultures, you disingenuous fuck. lol

Benjamin Wood
Benjamin Wood

"tribalism existed long,LONG before capitalism was ever a concept, the original state of man is tribal in nature,"
If by tribalism, your referring to literal groups of people (which isnt tribalism) then sure, go off.

also, "original state of man"

Fuckin state of you mate, theres no original state or whatever the fuck you think renaming human nature would be

" this is why people in western countries think you inferior, do not confuse hate with thinking someone is inferior."

Assuming im from the third world because i disagree with you exposes alot of internal shit from you, pal. And on a philosophical point, if we consider what hatred and violence are in their essence, then considering someone to be inferior to yourself, to lack the power you have - be that in literal or social capital - is to say that you should be above them, and hierarchy in all forms is oppressive. As such, to think of someone as being inferior is not hatred, is something far more sinister and disgusting frankly. Also, its very hard to find someone below you mate, so have fun with that.

"people just don't go around killing minorities all willy nilly like they do in western cultures"

This is just incorrect

Jacob Kelly
Jacob Kelly

you are obviously a dumb fuck mate, the first communities were called tribes, they practiced tribalism as they would kill and conquer people who were not of their tribe….are you actually this fucking retarded?

if society collapsed tomorrow and everything went away, you better believe we'd fall back into a tribal state, we are reverting back to that state as it is, i admit, for a period there it looked like we might have actually had a chance to be from from tribalism, instead we only got dragged back down.

i assume your stupid ass is from a 3rd world country when you think America is actually racist in the same way say the middle east is….fact is western countries are the only true multicultural countries on the planet, everywhere else is a ethnostate and they intend to keep it that way.

you're obviously a fucking retarded commie if you think we're going to be able to escape hierarchy and think it's a product of capitalism….lol, fucking social capital..haha get fucked nigger.

Jacob Flores
Jacob Flores

You are dumb as fuck my man. Literally not a single thing you've said in this thread is true.

You are living in a fantasy world completely separated from reality.

healthland.time.com/2012/10/31/how-disasters-bring-out-our-kindness/

Although there’s a mentality that disasters provoke frenzied selfishness and brutal survival-of-the-fittest competition, the reality is that people coping with crises are actually quite altruistic.

That’s what we already seeing in the places worst hit by Sandy. Yesterday, Newark Mayor Corey Booker— who personally helped dozens of people who asked him for assistance via Twitter long into the night— tweeted, “Police have reported ZERO looting or crimes of opportunity in Newark. And ceaseless reports of acts of kindness abound everywhere. #Gratitude.”

nytimes.com/2009/12/01/science/01human.html

When infants 18 months old see an unrelated adult whose hands are full and who needs assistance opening a door or picking up a dropped clothespin, they will immediately help, Michael Tomasello writes in “Why We Cooperate,” a book published in October. Dr. Tomasello, a developmental psychologist, is co-director of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany.

The helping behavior seems to be innate because it appears so early and before many parents start teaching children the rules of polite behavior.
Continue reading the main story

“It’s probably safe to assume that they haven’t been explicitly and directly taught to do this,” said Elizabeth Spelke, a developmental psychologist at Harvard. “On the other hand, they’ve had lots of opportunities to experience acts of helping by others. I think the jury is out on the innateness question.”

But Dr. Tomasello finds the helping is not enhanced by rewards, suggesting that it is not influenced by training. It seems to occur across cultures that have different timetables for teaching social rules. And helping behavior can even be seen in infant chimpanzees under the right experimental conditions. For all these reasons, Dr. Tomasello concludes that helping is a natural inclination, not something imposed by parents or culture.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4335183/

Humans regularly help strangers, even when interactions are apparently unobserved and unlikely to be repeated. Such situations have been simulated in the laboratory using anonymous one-shot games (e.g., prisoner’s dilemma) where the payoff matrices used make helping biologically altruistic. As in real-life, participants often cooperate in the lab in these one-shot games with non-relatives, despite that fact that helping is under negative selection under these circumstances.

Second, helping strangers might be a successful strategy for identifying other cooperative individuals in the population, where partner choice can turn strangers into interaction partners. Third, in contrast to the assumptions of the prisoner’s dilemma model, it is possible that benefits of cooperation follow a non-linear function of investment. Non-linear benefits result in negative frequency dependence even in one-shot games. Finally, in many real-world situations individuals are able to parcel investments such that a one-shot interaction is turned into a repeated game of many decisions.

You are an emotionally, intellectually, and socially crippled human and it would be in the interests of the entire planet if people like you were exterminated.

Adam Gonzalez
Adam Gonzalez

Idk how people don't see fascism as a suicide death cult. First they came for the… and i did not speak out etc.

Like really they are going to go after Muslims and when they run out of Muslims they will say black african americans are Muslim sympathetic. Then they will go for Catholic Mexicans. Then anyone slightly brown. Then they come for Jews, anyone who is white they don't like is a Jew, and finally they start purging 'communists' literally everyone they don't like that they cant pretend is a Jew. Then as a bonus round they start purging each other.

Tyler Hughes
Tyler Hughes

they are quite different constructions, especially concerning "law and order" appeals right-wingers like to pull. most families, like most people, are trying to avoid the law and whatever authority rules over them as much as possible, while right-wingers appeal to the right of whatever state authority to rule, by whatever mechanism they need (because right-wingers are the first to lick boot, being the bully-cowards that they are).

if people were biologically compelled to believe in muh nation-state, civil wars would be practically impossible unless you insert some evil insidious conspiratorial force every time it happens (which, of course, right-wingers do). the idea that, maybe, their nation-states are artificial (even though many, like America, are completely a construction borne out of conquest), is something that doesn't occur to them.

Jaxson Ross
Jaxson Ross

Brilliant. so instead of engaging the points made, your just making the same ones with more insults."Society" isnt an institution, it cant collapse, society is the engagement of communities. Society can exist outside of the state.

Heres the point you are missing; Tribes are forms of State. They contain hierarchy, power struggles, agents of control and specialised actions for repression. State is a pre-requisite for capitalism, there can be no capitalism without the state violence to sustain it. As such, capitalism encourages both literal tribalism - the endless sub sectioning of groups into smaller, warring identities - and metaphorical tribalism - supporting X ploitical party, even though Y is back by the same donors.

When you are referring to tribes, i have no doubt you mean groups of cavemen or perhaps native americans. These people dont exist anymore, their ways of living dont exist anymore. The base/superstructure model is so common place and has been for so long, that even if "society" collapsed, what would spring would either be the glorious class-free stateless society, or a carbon copy of what came before it.

Understand, when feudalism fell, it could have only been replaced with capitalism, such were the dynamics between lords and serfs that they were willing to kill for the opportunity of personal entrepreneurship. You have to look at what the people are being oppressed by to understand what will follow, and people are oppressed by the state, and capital.

Not only is america more racist than the middle east, its also more violent on a micro scale, both in the literal and metaphysical sense.

get fucked nigger
You know no one actually thinks youre cool for saying that, right?

Nathaniel Rogers
Nathaniel Rogers

Because they're too preoccupied with the delusion that it's a murder-cult of all the people they don't like, and when they get boners from imagining dead transsexual niggers their already deprived brains have even less resources to work with.

Nolan Flores
Nolan Flores

IT’S NOT REAL

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Joshua Allen
Joshua Allen

illiterate retard spams pictures to prove his non-point

Kevin Nguyen
Kevin Nguyen

taking the use of "skin color" that literal as if "libs" literally think there is only melanin level differences between clines.

This is that retarded shit that I hate, you are arguing against a strawman. There is nothing in "white" genetics that is not present in "black" genetics. What is expressed however is in different proportion.

Zachary Hall
Zachary Hall

too many of us now
oof, now that's what I call /pol/yp critical thinking