From what communist theory I have read, it seems that Marx predicts that capitalism will eventually collapse and the working class will naturally rise up on their own to create a world that works for them; Marx also determined the nature of this new world. If this is the case, why do communist parties even exist? If the working class will create a communist world naturally, why organize? Am I missing something?
Why organize?
Asher Morgan
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Owen Phillips
if not a fag, lurk moar
Aiden Gutierrez
When it "collapses" mass dissatisfaction and chaos will ensue, it is precisely organizing the masses that socialism can be achieved, a fascist movement could just as easily arise in these conditions where the old neoliberal system has failed and people are desperate for a change.
Alexander Rivera
you must have misunderstood, then. take the historical instances of widespread change to the mode of production.
the military class, at this point more german than roman, loosely collects around odoacer and sack rome. guess who became the new kings, lords, dukes and counts of europe? the military class, i.e aristocracy
the bourgeoisie, the merchants, are the primary subject of the revolutionary period. marginalized by the estate system, they funded and fought mass popular uprisings against the ruling aristocratic elite. guess who became the ruling class of this new world?
Justin Baker
Workers will not allow themselves to be exploited forever. The material conditions of the worker will become so bad and inequality will eventually become so great, that the system can do nothing else but fall to revolution. One day it will become too much and the borgs will be replaced similar to how they replaced the nobility. Communist parties do not bring revolution, only workers can. The role of the communist is to push that revolution onto a socialist path. The earlier we achieve it, the less bullshit that has to happen.
Carson Gomez
Communist parties forming and organizing IS a portion the working class rising naturally, utilizing the party as an apparatus to both spread awareness and organize around. Rome didn't happen in a day.
Grayson Moore
Nigga Lenin was a lawyer, most commie parties around today are either petit bourgeios themselves or have a petit bourgeios background, the only place communism has survived in the west post soviet union is in colleges despite losing ground to Foucoult and postmodern thought
Ryan Murphy
What do you image the "collapse" to be?
People won't just suddenly wake up and be in communism. The collapse will be a popular revolt against the capitalist system.
Landon Wright
Camden Richardson
If it's a natural process then why would awareness need to be spread? Wouldn't the people intuitively set up a communist system once capitalism had fallen simply because they were in control and the only system where the proletariat own the means of production is communism?
Thomas Phillips
definitely not a fag, but this concept has certainly been troubling me recently.
This is the best answer so far. So Marx analyzed historical trends to discover the historical cycles communism is based on, identified proletariat and bourgeoisie as the two classes in conflict in our time, and devised the system necessary to move humanity forwards? Thank you that makes lots of sense.
Carter Jenkins
If you eventually get over a cold or the flu, why rest or take medicine?
Anthony Phillips
This is actually close to the Leftcom line of thought. Lenin addressed that sort of thinking here and here marxists.org
Robert Morgan
As Slavoj Zizek says, "communists experience themselves as instruments in which to exercise a historical necessity"
This was more of a development in the 1910's, but anyway the point is that this theory isn't meant to be disconnected from your actual action or day-to-day life. You're living in it.
Chase Watson
people throw logs on the fire when they get cold
Jace Martinez
ok then go read a little into the founding of the IWW including its constitution-charter
I wouldn't put it exactly like that but close enough. Someone else mentioned leftcom which also took a different line towards political organizing than the socdem-bolshevik one. Anyway if you are a burger definitely look into the IWW (historically not like getting involved nowadays)
Samuel Nguyen
Capitalism will collapse, yes, but socialism is not guaranteed. Fascism is the bourgeois solution to the contradictions of capitalism. If we want socialism, we need to work towards building it, and fighting the growth of reactionary movements.
Socialism or barbarism.
Connor Baker
Guys who have read Marx extensively please correct me if I'm wrong but afaik Marx never said the revolution (and therefore socialism and communism) was inevitable. He simply said that it was one of the possible ways history could end. Obviously that would be the best option but it's still possible that that's not what'll happen and capitalism ends up wiping us out in the near future. Or nuclear war or climate change, shit like that. That's why we shouldn't take communism for granted as in it'll inevitably happen some day.
Caleb Turner
*as if it'll inevitably happen
Anthony Lewis
marxism.org.uk
Whether or not you agree with every point, this answers pretty concisely.
Brandon Clark
based analogy-posters
Aiden Davis
What is natural and unnatural for you? People organizing is unnatural? I don't think proles will just build a new form of society without uttering a single word or slogan, you know *sniff*, they will not automatically assemble into a new society like nanorobots *sniff* and so on.
nature izh itshelf unnatural, I claim
Jace Jackson
What drugs you smoking, the conditions of workers have only been getting better since the industrial revolution when people used to work every day on 18 hour days. As long as lefties keep pushing shitty reforms into law so that things at least seem to be getting better, there will never be enough of a desire in the populace for a revolt. England during the 19th century is a prime example of this; by reforming extensively, they avoided the revolutions experienced in every other part of Europe.
Everyone will just keep getting socialist reforms shoved down their throat until there is no longer a motive to work and we all get our minds uploaded to the cloud. Have fun lurking on leftypol till then.
Landon Walker
...
Camden Barnes
He identified that particular mover of history, class conflict, as a fundamental one, and he analysed the contradictions between the classes in capitalism to get a better idea of what the revolutionary class here was, what its interests were, and how it might liberate itself and assert its power. The revolution isn't "inevitable" exactly, and neither is the "collapse of capitalism". It has to be actively engaged in, which Marx obviously desired because he saw limitations in capitalism for the advancement of humanity.
Really you should read more about studies of the deterioration of feudalism to get a concrete idea of where these theories come from. Marx was basically living in the tail end of this movement that saw the capitalist market conquer the whole world. Feudal relations (however weak) literally still existed in some parts of Europe while Marx was alive. You can actually see in this history the movement of class conflict, the advance and retreat of the privileges of the lords. It is all there, and it's very interesting to look into.