The Tories are subtly scrubbing the record on the Troubles.
The Tories are subtly scrubbing the record on the Troubles.
Does it even matter what the Tories do at this point? They're in their final twitches before they go the way of the Whigs, the six counties are probably going to join the free state anyway.
32+6=1 TAL UP THE RA
The tories will probably remain in power for a long time though. They're consistently beating every other political party there, and there is still niggers and arabs for the Brits to piss their panties about.
Brits out!! Up the IRA! Ireland needs to be unified!
seamus, get the fertilizers.
Are you guys ready for The Troubles 2? Up the RA
UP THE RA!
Gosh do I fucking love the IRA
nothing is more inspiring that their fight against the occupation
I've heard the troubles were brutal and complicated, but I know Yankee blasting of easter rising RA songs helps
To be sure
Redpill me on the IRA.
Hey guys remember that time when the IRA were funded by the BASED Nazis and even sheltered by them? What utter comrades amirite!!!
We invading England now?
Anons here don't understand that 95% of the IRA did not identify as Socialists or had any interest in Socialism.
They also don't understand that Ulster Unionist government and Paramilitaries were far more focused on repressing the Catholic Population than the English were, who actually were the spearhead behind reform to make Northern ireland representative and equal, especially during Harold Wilson's government.
Anons here like simple conflicts with clear cut sides.
The only really good guys back then were James Connolly (actually a non sectarian who saw no real difference in Anarchism and Marxisms concept of people holding power and sought to preserve the IWW) and Bobby Sands, and that's only because they only fired when absolutely necessary (Fuck the OIRA massacres), while using non violent tactics first and foremost.
This. After the 1975 Ceasefire, the PIRA nearly collapsed and essentially went full on terror, bombing civilians and attacking those who had nothing to do with the conflict.
They weren't socialists. They exacerbated the conflict out of self interest and attempted to bring down agreements that might have brought peace and equality to Catholic communities.
Fuck all sides in the conflict, except maybe the constitutional groups like the SDLP.
weren't the Official IRA /ourguys/
they really had a good marxist class analysis of thje conflict, saying we shouldn'T shoot at other workers, right?
i'll be ready to come out and fight on the rocky road to Dublin, in Johnson's motorcar when I need to.
Yeah, they essentially kicked out the old guard Republicans. The PIRA and OIRA both generally accepted attacking other workers was pointless and hurt the cause, and usually denounced the attacks. Until the 75 ceasefire, that is.
The 1950's and Early 60's IRA Campaigns were laughably pathetic and led to young Marxist Catholics born in the 6 county state kicking out the 'Old Guard'.
The new Marxist IRA was still a modest size and gave small support to the growing, liberal and parliamentarian civil rights movement led by Nationalist Catholics. A mainly middle-working class UVF saw the Civil rights movement as a sign the IRA were back and began organising Protestant attacks and marchs into Catholic areas and streets. (Stormont Unionists like Craig and Paisley helped this)
This led to the IRA swelling in numbers, but the new members promptly became frustrated with the new, Marxist line of this die-hard IRA, and split off to form the Provisional IRA (Nationalist-Republican). The Provisional IRA exploded in popularity and outpaced the Official IRA (The Marxists).
The death of the OIRA came in 1974, really, when they became involved in bloody Feuds with the PIRA, ultimately leading them to collapse in various splinter movements that petered out.
As the new PIRA's movement developed with the continued war against the British occupation forces, figures such McGuinness, Gerry Adams and Kelly took on a more dominant role in a more centralised force. they shifted the ideological window from 'A war of equal rights for Catholics' to 'A war against British occupation' and eventually to 'A war of the Irish nation'. They actively fought against the 1985 agreement, stopped accepting ceasefires with the Army, and began pursuing a more aggressive campaign on the British Mainland.
As the Troubles dragged on, it became less political and far more nationalistic. Thatcher's government didn't help this.
But the PIRA fucked themselves, in that this ideological shift made support amongst the working class slowly dry up into the early 90's, as they saw the war as pointless, and were exhausted by the refusal of the PIRA to accept constituional agreements. By the mid 90's, the PIRA was heavily infiltrated by the British, attacks were responded to faster and morale drained. The Unionist Paramilitaries were also a joke at this point.
They fucked themselves by rejecting class conflict.
lets hope the Irish will spark the fight once again in the near future
btw are you the KPD comrade by any chance?
The larger 32 County Republican movement was birthed in 1791 with the United Irishmen, whose leader Wolfe Tone wished to create a 32 County Republic which prioritised the Men Of No Property.
This can be considered to a proto-Marxism, as Connolly did.
Other individuals of the time are similarly considered to operate within the same vein, such as Robert Emmet and William Thompson.
The late 1800s saw the resurgence of Republicanism in a Socialist format : the ITGWU Worker's Union and the formation of the Irish Socialist Republican Party (ISRP).
By the time the IRA was established, the Marxist Irish Citizen's Army was largely spent after 1916 with the execution of Connolly.
The brand-new IRA of 1919 was largely populated by Subsistence Farmers and the Urban Working Class, who not only wanted an end to British rule but also stronger economic conditions for those in Irish society who lived in poverty.
The big change in the first two decades of the 20th Century is that the National Bourgeoisie decided to side with Republicanism, whereas beforehand they had sided with Unionism or John Redmond's Irish Parliamentary Party of the late 1800s.
The 26 County Statelet was a British invention, approved by the Dublin Bourgeoisie. They never supported the 32 County project in the first place, so why would they object to their own Designated Playground?
What resulted was compounded decades of working class emigration, and thus an electorate representative of the property-owning classes.
The Border Campaign of 56-62 obviously failed, as they were still attempting to utilise the Peasant Revolt tactics of the 1910s.
This is when it starts to get interesting : in the 1961 Census, the 26 Counties experienced a population growth for the first time for over 120 years, most of whom were Irish-born returning home.
It is no coincidence that the Fianna Fáil government started attracting FDI from the USA in the mid-1950s, and thus began investing in Irish communities for the first time. These two processes are directly intertwined (keep in mind that this process relieves the Dublin Upper Class of actually investing in their communities, as did joining the EEC).
How does this effect the IRA?
Seamus Costello was arrested in 1946 for orchestrating the bombing of the Magherafelt Courthouse. Whilst in jail, he started reading extensively on the Vietnamese liberation struggle and became very interested in Ho Chi Minh and the National Liberation Front.
After the failure of the Border Campaign, he started advocating Leninist tactics where the IRA should wage a war whilst simultaneously placing emphasis on taking seats in elections.
In 1953, Cathal Goulding was interned in Wakefield Prison, where he shared a cell with Volunteers from EOKA.
They were Cypriot seperatists, also waging war again they British. They shared Marxist literature with him, and he was principally impressed with the writings of Josip Broz Tito.
He was especially impressed with how Yugoslavia managed to get the various Balkan ethnicity to work together under the banner of one State, which he felt would prove very helpful in the establishment of the 32 County Republic.
Cathal Goulding managed to convince Seán Garland of the Marxist ideology, and so it was spread throughout the 1960s IRA.
Some of the main detractors of Leninism were Seán Mac Stíofáin and Ruairí Ó Brádaigh, who went on to form PIRA.
However, when the OIRA and PIRA split on different terms, the majority of volunteers sided with the OIRA. Especially West of the Bann.
This whole talk about the talk about how the IRA was never socialist is merely British National Chauvinism.
This is explicitly incorrect, look at pic 3. The Éire Nua programme was also explicitly Socialist.
PIRA Volunteers largely removed themselves.
it was a decision made before the Sinn Féin Ard Fheis of 1970, they primarily walked out because of a motion to take seats in both devolved Governments.
This was a motion largely pushed by Seamus Costello.
Most Volunteers sided with OIRA, especially West of the Bann.
IRA numbers grew as a result of the Battle of the Bogside, not because of "middle-class" UVF members.
Most of what you've written is plain garbage.
I knew it was you.
You were in the previous Bobby Sands thread and you have merely adopted a portion of my talking points in order to present yourself as some sort of authority on the subject.
You are a British Unionist and you will take any opportunity to discredit the Irish National Liberation struggle.
People who know what they're talking about will generally cite the NICRA.
The SDLP were always Green Politics revisionists who largely prioritise Catholic social conservatives.
Most Socialists would rather cite Eamonn McCann or Bernadette Devlin as their NICRA representatives.
Maybe you haven't heard of them.
I do not believe in the Éire Nua programme. but
Though isn't it fun how you choose to criticise your assumption of my economic leanings, rather than an entire thread of misinformation?
I was shitting on them generally and I'm the Wobbly poster in this thread who dindu nuthin wrong so why are you shitting on a Yank who never claimed to be an expert.
Just wanna say first that the dramatic quotes images you've used are pretty cringe
You're already going into 'Proto-marxist' arguments of the 1791 revolt in a discussion about the IRA of 1968-97. Christ. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and see if you can relate this to the PIRA being socialists.
The rest of your post here is mainly just a history of Irish republicanism related to Socialism that doesn't really prove the PIRA being socialists, and more just discusses how the IRA of the 50's and 60's held Marxist influences and where from. Which doesn't actually relate to the PIRA, since you admit later on that they split based on ideological differences.
That's why I said 95% lmao. The vast majority of IRA volunteers in the 1968-97 campaigns associated with the PIRA and didn't give a shit about marxism.
They lost all credibility after the failed border war. They had barely any support from the Southern state. They didn't just let Marxists take their place. They left in defeat.
This is some pretty strained shit, mate. The PIRA's lower estimates ran at around 6000, 8000 in their darkest days in the mid to late 70's. The OIRA's highest estimates in the early 70's never exceeded 2000.
The vast majority of initial violence came from Protestant paramilitaries and communities storming Catholic communities and attacking and destroying property, as a violent reaction to the peaceful Civil rights movements of the Catholics. The IRA began to grow as a result in defending Catholic communities, then exploded after Faulkner introduced internment without Trial and Operation demetrius' failure. The Battle of the Bogside was a part of this.
I've been on leftypol for about 2 weeks and have no clue wtf you're talking about, lmfao. You're paranoid and delusional.
I'm a Welsh Catholic who supports Irish unification. I have no clue what the fuck you're talking about.
Is that why they were some of the largest supporters of the Sit-in's in Protestant allocated housing and worked with Catholic Unions? Calling the SDLP Conservatives is like calling British Labour conservatives.
Your whole post reeks of fetishism for an imaginary version of the troubles that simply did not exist, combined with weak gatekeeeping and paranoia. The weird, short sentences like 'I knew it was you.' are hilariously melodramatic and make you look pathetic.
PS, you posting this at half 2 in the morning makes me think you're an American.