What do you guys think about Antifa? Personally I think that their main goal to bring down fascism is a good idea, but they seem to also do wrong things, and since Zig Forums is leftist, and Antifa is also leftist, I was just wondering what other leftists had thought about it.
I enjoy watching them scare boomers and the non-boomer Zig Forumstards.
Haha, yeah. That was kinda funny.
It's not a unified group, the important thing is not to overgeneralize. Examine everyone as a unique individual. Some are good, some are bad. The good ones fight against police brutality and fascists, the bad ones are really just radical liberal identarians who want to virtue signal and only turned to """anarchism""" (their version of it which isn't really anarchism at all) because Hilldawg lost the race.
There's also the antifa based in Japan, Roja.va, and Greece, which seem to be better organizaed and not quite obsessed with burger IDpol bullshit, of which I admire more.
topic is a little old. had many threads asking this at the height of theyre popularity.
Absolute shit makes me puke, idpol ridden college liberals
Honestly what does it matter? As long as they are distracting fashies and ruining their optics I don't see anything wrong with them. The first world must not be allowed to go full fascist as they diminish.
Necessary evil, stormfags don't care about logic and reason, but they know fear.
Antifa keep stormweenies in check
Anyone who attacks fascists is at least some level of good.
Everyone should at least look into there local antifa group too check out what there doing there probably not as bad as you think and like others have said anyone who resist facism is doing at least one thing right.
I didn't know Japan had a strong Antifa movement where can I learn about them?
There isn´t THE antifa, there are regional/country differences. That said even the larpers in their ranks are a net benefit since they openly oppose facists.
even within cities there are probably multiple antifa groups. This will generally be studenty types and football types in Europe. Really depends on who you are talking about
They don't go far enough sometimes, but I'm proud of antifascist groups in North America as of recently
Too many here knows what Antifa is or means and just runs with how it is defined in boomer media. gets it.
fugging borgissi and so on and so on
quake voice excellent
Larpers who gather most of their "radical thought" from Harry Potter and Buzzfeed, basically glorified neoliberals pretending to be anarchists.
Didn't we already have a thread for this?
Who's that? She seems niiiiccee
And yeah, I'm anti-fascist.
Had a good discussion on its problems a while back here 8ch.net
WE MUST CRITICALLY SUPPORT THE JAPANESE EMPEROR AGAINST SHINZO ABE IMPERIALISM
Heisei Restoration is actually existing socialism.
The Japanese Emperor actually is about as cool as an emperor can be. He non-stop pisses off the Japanese right-wing despite their obsession with worshiping him. Even the JCP decided they're okay with the emperor though that may have a bit more to do with them going succdem. /leftyweebpol/ has an interesting thread about him. >>>/leftyweebpol/311
Japanese antifa like C.R.A.C. are hilariously based and have responded to fascist noise vans by creating antifa noise vans that chase the fascists around while yelling at them:
The fascists get extremely buttmad about that too, and the antifa dudes are having a ton of fun, and looking like you're having fun is half the battle.
In my country they chase out genuine communists (marxist leninist) out of their protests saying that they have nothing to do with their „totalitarism”. Absolute garbage
In my country they are communists and anarchists and get along fine. I remember from when I was organized, we had some comrades visit from a neighboring country and they were in awe that communists and anarchists were in the same organization. Meanwhile I hadn’t even considered it before. Some friendly ribbing once a while between people, but no issues.
My impression is working out political beef in the context of antifascist work is counterproductive. The point is to disrupt fascist organizing and beef over anarchism or Marxism is best left to be worked out in other arenas.
Anyways, some people who do it seem very good at it. It was amazing to watch the disruption of Identity Evropa in the U.S. recently which seemed like it took months of work to pull off, totally in secret – and most importantly, the people who did will never take credit for it. The fash are typically arrogant to the extreme and don't see it coming.
This guy Casey, this nerdy wannabe Fuhrer who led the organization, spent a lot of time bragging about how doxxings went down after he took over and then suddenly practically the entire organization gets doxxed all of a sudden. They tried to bail from their Discord to Slack, but little did they know that had been infiltrated too. Makes you want to microwave up some popcorn and watch.
I'm kind of a fan of "everyday antifascism." Like organizing squads to go out and take down fascist stickers or flyers when they get posted, and form up little monitoring groups responsible for keeping tabs on fascist groups' social media – the groups tend to post pics of their work after they do it, so you can geolocate the spots using landmarks in the background of the photos and then go out and take them down.
A lot of fascist groups basically only have one strategy which is attempting to trick liberals into overreacting and reporting Nazi shit to local media, which then does a story on it. Free publicity, essentially, so having groups that can tear that shit down before some idiot liberal sees it seems to be pretty effective at curtailing them. They of course change their tactics over time and you have to adjust as well.
Antifa here in Germany are horrible. They actually oppose communism and are anarkiddies + left liberals. Ugh
I recall there was this one clip where they trashed some fashies apartment and sprayed the walls black. That was based, at least.
way to buy into boomer propoganda you dumb cunt. The antifa i know are all football casuals.
thats from RF in sweden is it not?
Anti fascism might be one of the the most important if not the most important responsibility of the left right now. As a matter of fact much too important to be left to a bunch of scruffy punk kids. I'm sure most of them are decent people but the truth is, what modern antifascists need to project is discipline, maturity and trustworthyness, all of which mainstream Antifa is severely lacking in.
When the old lady who's afraid for her pension, the underpaid worker in a dead end job, the immigrant family frightened by neofascist sentiment, the homosexual couple who want to be left in peace hear the term "Antifa" the need to think of upright man and women who fight for their rights and protect them from aggression.
Fascists regularly cite low turnouts or cancellation of events out of fear of Antifa or other counter fash movements. Bootlickers hate having the boot shoved down theyre throat, surprisingly.
Reminder if you are anti fascist, you are Antifa.
OP here, thanks for the responses.
I literally thought they were just annoying idpol kids until the New Zealand massacre. I thought antifa was just beating up some pathetic nazi larpers before and I thought the whole thing was dumb idpol vs idpol crap. Now I've seen the average Zig Forums response to the New Zealand massacre, I realize those guys are violent sociopaths and not just edgy teenagers.Who knows where we'd be if those psychopaths were roaming the streets unopposed.
as someone who feels threatened by both street skinheads and fascists with state power, I think antifa has been doing good work overall. it needs to get more organized though, at least in the US (and come up with better chants ffs). sure charlottesville was a pr disaster for the alt-right but I imagine they'll creep back out after the 2020 crash. the burger left in general needs to get its shit together quick which I suppose has been happening to a certain extent but I'm worried it's not gonna be enough
not who you replied to, but that is my former organization
best years of my life i tell you. best years.
I agree with this. That is how I became a leftist to begin with, these people saved me and my mom from a beating by neo-Nazi filth when I was very young (8-9k).
NO NO NO
IN THE NAME OF HUMANITY
WE REFUSE A FASCIST AMERICA
I realized this around HWNDU 2016, immediately after the election. Had all the fuckups from Zig Forums speaking infront of the camera and I know from then on that fascism is just concentrated psychopathy. I don't mean the meming kids who were there, I mean the actual nutjobs and other cranks who turned up.
I am part of the movement. I am also a radical.
What are you talking about, idiot. You can't even be a Liberal and an Anarchist at the same time! Go back to Zig Forums, Nazi LARPer!
based and redpilled. You part of any orgs these days?
I support it on all levels.
Leftypol is traditional liberal with strong bent to compassionate communalism (expressed as socialism).
Antifa is an anarchist paramilitary organisation funded by the Jew, Soros, for purposes of political and currency control.
We have nothing in common except that we don't like the current system.
Beware of radlibs infiltrating radical spaces (wolves in sheeps clothing). Once you let in the drama, idpol, and general Tumblr mindset, it's hard to push it back out. For all intents and purposes, SJWs are feds because they are very proficient at stifling direct action, dividing groups, and neutralizing high-level organizers.
There are different reasons to support antifa:
Reasons not to support antifa:
- Punching Zig Forums in the face doesn't really change anything
- It's full of liberals, drama, cops
The more riots and street brawls of any kind, the better. I would rather see useless protests that are violent and destructive than useless protests that are boring. Wouldn't you?
Dumb kids that mean well. The organizers are almost certainly just some shadowy pragmati$t scum connected to the establishment.
I went to one of their counter-demos way before all this trump is hitler stuff and it's just dumb crustpunks throwing shit at even dumber right wing people. I know that the ones who throw shit and cause trouble aren't actually bad people, they just genuinely believe that they're fighting the Fourth Reich call of duty IRL because their political knowledge comes from Dead Kennedy's lyrics. Nice but dumb kids being used.
Even if they are just being used, isn't there an inherent goodness in the fact that people are rioting and wasting police resources and waking up normies to the possibility that they, too, could engage in civil disobedience? You just need to put on your post-leftist goggles.
If an islamist sunni blows up a shiite mosque or a neo-nazi attacks a synagogue and they think they're doing god's will or saving their race, they think they're good people just in the same way a person donating to charity is thinking they're doing the right thing. It might objectively be a total waste and wrong but in their mind they're not nihilists ripping off 'suckers' and stuffing themselves with meat, cheese and alcohol and laughing about it.
The solution is to take those moral crusaders which is a personality type and channel their willingness to sacrifice into non-violent action against bankers and intelligence agencies, where the sacrifice is the risk of loss of life/livelihood, torture, financial and legal attacks, public humiliation, incarceration and so on.
Violence is very ineffective and almost always counterproductive but taking action in the face of the threat of violence to reveal the truth like Snowden did is extremely productive. People can be replaced and repopulate even if you drop a bunch nukes on them. They can repair the damage. You can't undo the damage from revealing secrets and changing peoples minds.
scaring nazis out of the public sphere makes things safer for oppressed people
This isn't shocking. I mean, Churchhill regretted taking the Kaiser out and Hitler was Anti-Monarchist.
Give em hell
what the fuck is this
source on this
I don't see antifa in that list
Fuck off, Zig Forums. Antifa is not even an organization it is a movement, you idiot. And Trump is literally the definition of the establishment. He is a fat, Zionist, arrogant billionaire. Kill yourself.
But I have never received a paycheck from Georgie, strange.
Nah you are thinking of proud boys and patriot prayer, both of which are heavily financed by and connected to establishment figures.
You're hilarious, go the fuck back to >>>Zig Forums you cuntrag.
pffft look at this pleb.
Implying you can kill an idea
Full support. They get their hands dirty unlike these bookworms.
According to my very scientific and accurate statistical analysis, approximately 78,318% (± 1,3) of right-wing claims of their opposition are projection. About half of the remainder (~10,841%) are semi-purposeful misunderstandings, and the rest is a mix of truths, half-truths, and alike.
(Note: Outright lies have not been accounted for separately, as they exist in variable degrees of severity mixed-in across most of the earlier categories, and their significant volume require a separate study for themselves to yield any meaningful answers.)
Just wondering when they are actually going to go after this ugly bitch.
they are based for punching Richard Spencer, and it was funny to see this outrage at "muh violent leftists" when the alt-right want genocide.
Tbh she is milquetoast: apart from defending her grandpapa she is nothing more than a regular national conservative. Fratelli d'Italia, Lega Nord, and Casapound are the real threat.
I can't wait until someone mutilates her dead body and hangs her upside-down in public for everyone to laugh at, exactly like they did with her grandfather.
im a bit of a noob, who is she?
Benito Mussolini's granddaughter
absolutely shit false flag. You are not leftypol
Antifa isn't on there dickweed.
Fuck antifa. They can all eat a giant cock.
Straight people don’t constantly steer conversations to cock Nazi-kun.
a mixed bag, really. some are hardcore ancoms and far left activists, others are weekend radlibs. But it is always fun seeing stormfags and boomers get in a twist about them.
Their actions are misplaced. Although the group is extremely informal, they have a tendency to attack regular citizens when they're focus should be on protests against the elite, not necessarily rich people, but people with swaths of power. Your average white supremacists doesn't deserve to get punched and hit with rocks, but a politician pushing for legislation against the welfare of people in general should be massively protested.
Antifa is even more decentralized than Democrat Cops of America. It's less an organization and more a banner under which people with nothing to lose band together to force fascists out of their communities. I'm glad they're around; someone has to make Nazis afraid again.
Yes they do
oh but they do. they must be punched, they must be kicked, beaten, pelted with rocks, their homes invaded and their families threatened. They must be made to fear the left, like the sword of damocles hanging above their head by a thread, ready to impale them at any second.
No. If anybody needs to be punched, its the police and politicians, but even that I'm hesitant to be in favor of. Anti-Fascists shouldn't disrupt the free market of ideas regardless of how egregious, otherwise Anti-Fascist is just misnomer. Unless you mean literally Anti-Fascist as in I kill and hurt people with Fascist ideas. If so…okay I guess. My fascism is better than your fascism so stop spreading your ideas.
Fascists and their ilk are genuinely people lost in delusional fantasy that project their story-like views onto the world and then act as the "hero". See orcs vs. humans and so on. They whine about being punched because in their fantasy world, the "hero" throws all the punches and gets none himself, they aren't upset about the usage of violence, they're unhappy that their delusional fantasy is being interrupted.
Punch a nazi in the face today to prevent Dresden being burned tomorrow.
Doesn't exist. Not even basing this on a purely left oriented point of view, literally for any non-established ideology this does not exist. There is no equal ideological footing in any society and there never has been.
Fascism isn't the use of authority and violence. The use of violence and authority is just how every ideology that isn't inconsequential actually applies itself in the real world. Any ideology that doesn't do this is either dead or doomed to be dead.
Antifa is used by the CIA to discredit leftist movements
yes it is
Name one leftist movement that isn't used by the CIA to discredit leftist movements. That's what the CIA does; it discredits leftist movements.
Correct. As explored in Politics as a Vocation (read Weber you fucks), what legitimizes a state is its monopoly on the use of violence.
Free market doesn't imply lack of a reigning ideological view points, so don't mischaracterize the term. Free market of ideas entails equal chance of dispersal but unequal chance of application. Also, I was complaining that the term Anti-facist would be a misnomer if the use of Authoritarian methods to silence the opposition was put into place, which would be ironic considering Fascism is inherently authoritarian. But I suppose you wouldn't agree with that considering the fact that you view the methods of establishing an ideology to be separate from the ideology itself, hence Fascism ≠ use of authority and violence. And I agree that all ideologies that hold some influential grip on a group of people will have already utilized or will threaten others with the use of violence and authority to maintain their place within the common thought. But is is not fair to distinguish the difference between the ideological views represented by the state and the internal ideological marketplace? I don't mean to muddy the waters but I think they should be distinguished. The ideological views expressed by the state are already established and represented by the state, while internal ideological strife is much more volatile. Although both are subject to change.
Why can't you read right. I don't support that
But it's not. Mass media propaganda will always drown out the blogs. The ruling class has the media image and they've been constructing so for hundreds of years. And this isn't even addressing how governments will censor anyone they see as a threat with their free speeech anyway.
In that case, free market of ideas is completely useless; why should I wait around for the unlikely chance for a bunch of brainwashed masses to wake up when I could be doing something right now?
Are there any solid examples of governments funding major media outlets or such? It makes sense that MSM defends the government but I can't think of any evidence.
Antifa is a waste of time and misdirected energy
Broke: ANTIFA, middle class liberal students organising without direction
Woke: Unite against racism, proletarian socialist trade unions organising under a common banner and organisation.
The chance of dispersal is still the same, its the quantity of dispersal you're speaking of. There is still equal CHANCE of dispersal. And by acting out and trying to wake-up the masses, you are still acting within the bounds of the free market of ideas. You're already playing the game, be it by violence or otherwise. Unequal application doesn't mean the tide of opinion can't change in your favor.
Bolshevik actions have been utilized by the CIA more than anyone.